The Clone Spell

[Kaelik]

Clone is a spell we argue about every time it comes up.

Can it allow someone to clone themselves and appear in that body when they die?

[Starsinger]

Isn't that the purpose of the spell? Or atleast the purpose in 3E?

[Yuki Akuma]

...Yes.

Because that's what the spell does. It says it in the spell description you linked to and everything.

It's the whole point of the spell. It does nothing if you don't die.

You could, I guess, magic jar into it... but why? It's an exact duplicate of you.

[tainsouvra]

It has been argued that Clone is, in effect, an arcane version of Resurrection. Clone has a cheaper material component and requires a small preserved piece of flesh instead of a part of the body at the time of death, but Resurrection can be done on-the-spot instead of only with a laboratory. There is a one-level difference, but that could be an arcane/divine difference.

Personally, I find the wording of the Clone spell implies that a preserved backup copy of a person is possible, but the spell description is not 100% clear on that point. While I believe it was intended to allow a backup, I can at least see why some readers do not believe it functions that way.

[Dubie]

That is the idea behind the spell. However, it could create an interesting situation where your party had clones made, only to find later the inert bodies somehow became occupied by something else...

[Kaelik]

...Yes.

Because that's what the spell does. It says it in the spell description you linked to and everything.

It's the whole point of the spell. It does nothing if you don't die.

You could, I guess, magic jar into it... but why? It's an exact duplicate of you.

The other point of view (primarily made by Chronos) is that it only allows a Wizard to bring dead people back to life, not himself after he dies.

Interestingly, it only matters as far as I can tell when the 2d4 months are up. So Chronos, would you admit that if a Wizard remade the clone every 2 Months could it activate if he happened to die at some point during that 2 months.

[Belteshazzar]

Didn't Manshoon or one of the Red Wizards use this to come back whenever Eleminster killed him. I think he prepared it multiple times and simply kept all the inactive clones at his keep. However it did screw up once (during the time of troubles I think) and he ended up all waking up at once. Each one thinking he was the true wizard.

P.S. I don't think he ever recaptured them all.

[Dausuul]

Didn't Manshoon or one of the Red Wizards use this to come back whenever Eleminster killed him. I think he prepared it multiple times and simply kept all the inactive clones at his keep. However it did screw up once (during the time of troubles I think) and he ended up all waking up at once. Each one thinking he was the true wizard.

P.S. I don't think he ever recaptured them all.

That was back in 2E. Clone worked very differently back then.

Reading the current spell description, I see nothing to indicate that a clone of a living character will "activate" if that character dies. The first four paragraphs repeatedly state that their effects trigger if the original is already dead when the clone is completed. The only section dealing with cloning a character who is currently alive is the fifth paragraph (the "soulless bit of inert flesh" part).

I will agree that if the original dies between the casting of the spell and the end of the clone's 2d4-month growth period, the clone will become active upon completion; that's clearly stated in the first sentence of paragraph 3.

Note that the statement "the clone must be grown in a laboratory" leaves a lot open to question. The use of the passive voice ("must be grown" rather than "must grow") suggests that someone has to tend the clone for it to continue growing, but there's no indication of how much tending is required or what skills one must possess in order to do it. It could be anything from a janitor coming in once a month to change the water filter, to the spellcaster coming in personally every two hours to perform an elaborate ritual. In the absence of any clear statement, I would incline in the direction of the former rather than the latter, but it's really up to the DM.

[Wolfwood2]

That requirement for 1 cubic inch of flesh is tough if casting it every 2d4 months, though.

Unless you have a Ring of Regeneration, I suppose. (Hey! We found a use for it.)

[AKA_Bait]

It's a bit off topic but reading the spell again got me wondering how Clone would interact with, say, a Lich. Could a Lich clone itself? Would it move directly into the new body (since it's already dead and per the spell description...)? Would the spell fail because the lich's 'life force' is stored in it's phylactery? Does that mean 'life force' is the same as soul by Raw?

Why would a Lich bother to clone themselves? Well, if the spell worked that when the current body was destroyed the clone activated he could cut down on that pesky regeration period. Also, if the decaying/withering process for a lich happens over time, rather than as 'poof you are a lich and all gross looking' a lich might periodically switch off into grown clones to continue looking normal...

[Dausuul]

It's a bit off topic but reading the spell again got me wondering how Clone would interact with, say, a Lich. Could a Lich clone itself? Would it move directly into the new body (since it's already dead and per the spell description...)? Would the spell fail because the lich's 'life force' is stored in it's phylactery? Does that mean 'life force' is the same as soul by Raw?

Why would a Lich bother to clone themselves? Well, if the spell worked that when the current body was destroyed the clone activated he could cut down on that pesky regeration period. Also, if the decaying/withering process for a lich happens over time, rather than as 'poof you are a lich and all gross looking' a lich might periodically switch off into grown clones to continue looking normal...

If the original soul is unavailable, you get the inert lump. The most logical interpretation would be that the original soul is unavailable until the lich's phylactery, and the lich itself, are both destroyed. You could argue that the soul is available during the 1d10-day period between the lich's destruction and its re-forming, but in that case I don't know what would happen when the lich re-formed...

If you cloned a destroyed lich, you'd end up with a living wizard, since the clone is treated as if it were the original raised from the dead.

Of course, the flesh must be taken from the original's living body. So the lich would have to maintain a preserved supply from before it became a lich...

As far as maintaining looks goes, wouldn't it be a lot simpler just to cast gentle repose on yourself every week or so?

[Thinker]

If the original soul is unavailable, you get the inert lump. The most logical interpretation would be that the original soul is unavailable until the lich's phylactery, and the lich itself, are both destroyed. You could argue that the soul is available during the 1d10-day period between the lich's destruction and its re-forming, but in that case I don't know what would happen when the lich re-formed...

If you cloned a destroyed lich, you'd end up with a living wizard, since the clone is treated as if it were the original raised from the dead.

Of course, the flesh must be taken from the original's living body. So the lich would have to maintain a preserved supply from before it became a lich...

And what diabolical mastermind who needed millennia to accomplish his task and be resurrected as a god wouldn't do this?

[Dausuul]

And what diabolical mastermind who needed millennia to accomplish his task and be resurrected as a god wouldn't do this?

That would be an interesting twist on the usual lich. Keep a preserved bit of your own flesh, then turn into a lich while you hunt for the secret of true immortality. Once you find it, cast clone on your bit of flesh, smash your phylactery and destroy your undead body, then wake up in a living body and make yourself immortal.

[Roderick_BR]

I always saw Clone as D&D's version of "extra life".
You make your clone (1Up) and when you die, you wake up in the clone. Sucks that you need to go to where your body died to find your old stuff (like in Diablo).

[Chronos]

The way I read the spell, it only does anything worthwhile if the original is dead when the new body is completed, in which case the new body wakes up. But if the original isn't dead at that time, then it's an inert lump of flesh (the same description used for a Stone to Flesh-ed statue), and the spell was wasted. Which makes it pretty unimpressive compared to Raise Dead or Resurrection, but then, wizards are supposed to be worse at that sort of thing than clerics.

I suppose you could cast it on yourself, just in case you die in the 2d4 months before the body is completed, but again, that raises the question of what level of maintenance is needed for the growing body. And even if it is largely automated, if someone does manage to kill you, they have a good long time to hunt down the laboratory (longer, for instance, than one has to find a lich's phylactery).

[Anxe]

There is an advantage of clone over resurrection because the age of your body goes back to when the clone was made. So if you're about to die of old age you have someone kill you, then you go back to your young and spry body.

[tainsouvra]

There is an advantage of clone over resurrection because the age of your body goes back to when the clone was made. So if you're about to die of old age you have someone kill you, then you go back to your young and spry body.

The duplicate finishes growing in 2-8 months...if you're about to die of old age, going back less than a year isn't going to be a big help, and that's even assuming your DM lets it work that way. Given that the Clone spell can't be used to resurrect someone who died of natural causes, I don't think it actually is supposed to allow you to extend your life--only return from death.

[Anxe]

No no. You create one like years earlier. Of course this trick is fairly useless because no campaign runs long enough in game to have the characters die from old age.

[Arbitrarity]

The duplicate finishes growing in 2-8 months...if you're about to die of old age, going back less than a year isn't going to be a big help, and that's even assuming your DM lets it work that way. Given that the Clone spell can't be used to resurrect someone who died of natural causes, I don't think it actually is supposed to allow you to extend your life--only return from death.

Reincarnation FTW!

[Green Bean]

Well, if you're a wizard, then you can try this little combo;

1. Cast Clone on yourself.

2. Wait for 2d4 months, minus an hour or so.

3. Cast Temporal Stasis on the clone.

4. Cast a Contingency'd Dispel Magic on the clone, the trigger being your death.

5. ???

6. Profit.

[Krrth]

That would be an interesting twist on the usual lich. Keep a preserved bit of your own flesh, then turn into a lich while you hunt for the secret of true immortality. Once you find it, cast clone on your bit of flesh, smash your phylactery and destroy your undead body, then wake up in a living body and make yourself immortal.

Incidently, the Baelnorns from FR use clone in place of a phylacery.

[Chronos]

Well, you could store the "seed flesh" in a jar of quintessence, or have a cleric just keep casting Gentle Repose on it, or something. The real problem with cloning into a young body is that the level of the clone is limited to the level the character was when the tissue sample was taken.

4. Cast a Contingency'd Dispel Magic on the clone, the trigger being your death.

Wouldn't work, alas. The spell stored in the Contingency has to target you, and the growing clone isn't quite exactly you, yet. It's also debatable whether the growing clone is a valid target for Temporal Stasis, and whether you can tell when it's almost ready.

[Green Bean]

Wouldn't work, alas. The spell stored in the Contingency has to target you, and the growing clone isn't quite exactly you, yet. It's also debatable whether the growing clone is a valid target for Temporal Stasis, and whether you can tell when it's almost ready.

Dang. Well, there's always Plan B, where you Dominate the cleric into raising you.

[Randel]

In the Stronghold Builders Guide there is a mention of having clones made up of yourself and other important people (like family and important officials) and then hiring a wizard to cast 'gentle repose' on the bodies.

The way I see it, the spell basically grows a new body that once complete will accept the persons soul if they are dead at any point. You just need to make sure that it doesn't start rotting and gentle repose keeps it in a 'ready to live but doesn't have the spark of life' state it needs to work.

Interestingly, I'm currently running an artificer who plans to go down the path of the Renegade Mastermaker and eventually turn into a living construct. I'm thinking that he could keep a clone in reserve in case he ever dies. Then he would find himself in his old human body and might have to go through a lot of trouble to make himself a construct again (though he should be able to do it faster the second time around).

Though I suppose you would have to make some changes to the spell if you want it to work on living constructs like warforged.

On another note, I suppose that since the Hand and Eye of Venca are old and mummified then they can't be used as components to work the clone spell... though if they could then I wonder what would happen if you tried.

[Nowhere Girl]

Just be a psion (shaper) and manifest astral seed. Problem solved. Now not even death can kill you.

This is one case where it's the psion, not the wizard, who wins.

[Yuki Akuma]

That would be an interesting twist on the usual lich. Keep a preserved bit of your own flesh, then turn into a lich while you hunt for the secret of true immortality. Once you find it, cast clone on your bit of flesh, smash your phylactery and destroy your undead body, then wake up in a living body and make yourself immortal.

Consider this idea stolen.

[Dausuul]

Consider this idea stolen.

It wasn't mine to begin with, so steal away. I tried to think of a way to appropriate it for my own upcoming campaign, but I've already got a lich in that one and he's got other plans. And there are only so many liches one can cram into a given storyline.

[Closet_Skeleton]

It's a bit off topic but reading the spell again got me wondering how Clone would interact with, say, a Lich. Could a Lich clone itself? Would it move directly into the new body (since it's already dead and per the spell description...)? Would the spell fail because the lich's 'life force' is stored in it's phylactery? Does that mean 'life force' is the same as soul by Raw?

Why would a Lich bother to clone themselves? Well, if the spell worked that when the current body was destroyed the clone activated he could cut down on that pesky regeration period. Also, if the decaying/withering process for a lich happens over time, rather than as 'poof you are a lich and all gross looking' a lich might periodically switch off into grown clones to continue looking normal...

Since a Lich is dead how do you clone him? His cells don't divide and most old liches are entirely skeletal.

[Saph]

I think the general conclusion is that it's a lot less trouble just to get the cleric to raise you instead. :)

- Saph

[Kaelik]

I think the general conclusion is that it's a lot less trouble just to get the cleric to raise you instead. :)

- Saph

Except of course that you can set it up so you come back to life without any assistance, which might be important if you don't have a party, which might be likely if D&D were a coherent universe instead of a hodge podge or archetypes.