My Hero Academia 3: Villainous Interlude

[Lord Raziere]

Spoiler: Catching Up on The anime:

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Since I don't read the manga, I slowly catch up on MHA through the anime, so...if I'm slow and this all old news....well, you know why.

first:
Nighteye: ARE YOU MAKING FUN OF ALL-MIGHT-SENPAI!?
Deku:....Yes
Nighteye: You got the face wrong, as a true fan I would know
Deku: ah but you forget that one indie connoisseur All-Might rescue where he showed an aspect of himself lesser fans don't pay attention to
Nighteye: I see you to are a man of refined taste. very well your hired.
Deku: yes!
Nighteye: but only after I troll you unnecessarily.

I've got to see the oft-talked Mirio actually work and talk now so I know him better and he's....hes fine. He's okay. at least right now. I get why people like him, but honestly he gives off a "I'm intentionally too much an ideal to actually exist" kind of character. He only makes sense in relation to Izuku. his entire purpose seems to be the guy who everyone says is better than Deku for OFA personality wise to make Deku doubt himself, but in the end Deku will turn out to be just as good or better than him or something. don't get me wrong he is a good person, but its precisely the fact that he is so good that there would be no way he would continue being the way he is now (and this is the stray spoilers I've seen talking because spoilers are kind of everywhere these days and I don't really care about them which makes it easier to forget them and experience things fresh even though you know a little of what happens) so there was just no way of Mirio surviving this arc with powers intact, because thats what I remember everyone being excited about, him losing his quirk.

Honestly, its just how these things play out. I think Mirio is being more of a mentor to Deku than Nighteye in some respects right now, simply because while everyone does talk him up, Mirio himself doesn't for a single moment agree or support Nighteye saying that he is more worthy of OFA. Mirio simply does not care and just wants to be the best hero he can be regardless of OFA and wants Deku to be a good hero as well, he just wants to do a good job and Nighteye and All-Might's bull is just that...adults having some stupid disagreement over something that doesn't actually matter. so kudos to Mirio on that, he doesn't let it go to his head. I'm glad he isn't the protagonist though, the genre needs to expand past smiling reckless doofuses being the main character all the time.
also apparently his super suit is made of his own hair. wow. how much did he have to grow it out for that?

Red Riot is there. He sure does get his moment. Its on some level, cool, but I don't care about him. He is technically immune to being depowered with his hardening quirk though so...practical advantages there. and nice to see some citizens actually praising a hero and noticing the the things they to protect them, thats good.

Suneater is someone I relate to on an emotional level. just how do those darn smiley guys get all that energy and confidence from? it mystifies me to this day. also good on him on taking three guys all at once who have dangerous quirks who know how to counter what he does, but also are friends who work together and thus uses the power of teamwork in a rare villain case- and he still wins, defeating that kind of group is no small feat, a lesser series would make them too dumb to work together or something.

Nighteye himself: this future sight guy hm.....so he's never been wrong, the people who he foresees cannot deviate from their actions he foresaw, but he can only see accurately up to one hour, but past that it gets more vague? okay but....
....if Deku is enhancing his speed, how can Nighteye still dodge? No matter how good you are at seeing movements and whatnot, reaction time has its limits. it just seems to be nighteye being able to dodge because he foresaw himself dodging that through Deku's perspective and thus being locked into that future for no reason. otherwise he is normal human he shouldn't be able to pull off dodging Deku. though it does mean Nighteye saw himself dodging it before he dodged it, and thus was bound by his own vision...

dragon lady is awesome. nothing more needs to be said.

oh and apparently while a drug to depower quirks is new, a drug to supercharge quirks is known throughout the world! great. as if Bakugo need bigger explosions....

Eri is precious and needs protecting. nothing more needs to be said.

As for whether Deku and Mirio could've saved Eri if they knew....well its not implausible. Deku could probably get real fast and run away from a guy who probably has normal human speed and can only kill you if you allow you allow him to touch you. while Mirio has the one quirk to annoy a touch based superpower endlessly to get in his way. if they knew what he was up to, its actually pretty plausible that Overhaul would be screwed.

Speaking of Overhaul....he can apparently reconstruct people after he kills them? creepy. hope the people who get reconstructed don't have an identity crisis by thinking about it too much. also,if he needs to wear gloves....how isn't he blowing up the gloves?

also the Shie Hassakai is some....heavily surveillanced protected designated villain group? whats up with that? they're meant to be yakuza right, is it meant to be some yakuza/police like arrangement where the yakuza keeps their stuff clean and the heroes will only enforce what they can prove, and the yakuza while not legit is something there to keep the underworld organized in some manner instead of chaos that the police can't handle? just with the heroes being in the position of power? so more of a "we know we can't get rid of you entirely so we're controlling you to the best of our ability" kind of thing?

overall MHA is always good for me. as usual its only disappointment is allowing Mineta to exist. probably will wait for the episodes to all come out before watching the rest. I'm particularly looking forward to seeing how an actual fight with Overhaul turns out.

[LaZodiac]

To answer some of your niggling concerns and questions

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1: Nighteye and All Might's spat isn't 'nothing' it is Nighteye telling the person he loves that he has seen an unavoidable, gruesome death for him, and telling him he has to stop doing the one thing he wants to do to prevent it. It's a lover's quarrel times like, a billion.

2: Nighteye is able to dodge because he's dodging in advance. Deku is singleminded enough to commit to this strategy and his movements, so all Nighteye has to do is move into the right position ahead of time. He's pre-dodging.

3: Oh ho ho ho, you'll get... some stuff, about how people who get killed and brought back within that valid time frame by Overhaul feel next week. It's A Lot.

4: You pretty much got the Yakuza down pat. Organized crime like them is near impossible to exist in this heroic day and age, so they're basically just let to do whatever, barely legal but still legal, operations, while being kept under a tight view since if they ever slip up they can be squashed easily.

[Julian84]

It looks like things are spicing up in the Vigilantes series with the Dec 13th chapter release.

I'm pretty pleased to see Pop-Step get more attention and focus. Vigilantes has been an interesting exploration of the MHA universe but I do feel it tends to have a pretty dude-centric viewpoint as does MHA. Hopefully though this won't just boil down to a romantic triangle subplot, or at least pays off in interesting ways beyond Pop getting the guy.

[LaZodiac]

New main series chapter!

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We get reminded why I think Horikoshi is one of the best artists in Jump currently, as Kurogiri briefly starts to take Shirokuma's form. It's for naught, as he collapses unconcious. But we got the word "hospital" from it... and it seems as though Shigaraki is at that hospital, getting his uh... cocoon, as it where. And he's not doing too hot!

[LaZodiac]

New chapter!

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We get to see how a bunch of the students have grown. Aoiyama gets a navel sword, Hagakure can CONTROL LIGHT AND LIGHT BYPRODUCTS. Ashido has "her own version of Unbreakable Red Riot" which is adorably cute, and everyone else seems to have grown so strong and powerful. And All Might himself muses how... the days of giving his hair to Deku and encouraging him are so long gone now. Deku doesn't look back at him anymore- and doesn't NEED to anymore either. Now all All Might can do is watch and wait.

And... give Deku a notebook of all he could gather on the past successor's. Looks like next time's chapter is going to be... enlightening!

[Ramza00]

New Chapter and it is GOOD!

But also WHINE for I have to wait 13 more days for the follow up chapter.

[Rater202]

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That's a Death Flag.

All Might himself said that he couldn't die until he was done training Deku, and if Deku doesn't need him anymore then he's got nothing left to due but die peacefully and fully become part of All For One.

It's not guaranteed, but they've basically admitted that his part in the story is over now. I'd put good money on him passing on within the next couple of chapters.

[LaZodiac]

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That's a Death Flag.

All Might himself said that he couldn't die until he was done training Deku, and if Deku doesn't need him anymore then he's got nothing left to due but die peacefully and fully become part of All For One.

It's not guaranteed, but they've basically admitted that his part in the story is over now. I'd put good money on him passing on within the next couple of chapters.

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I mean, the entire point of the Overhaul arc is that his death flag is going to be averted. So I don't buy it.

I think All Might lives to see Deku become who he was meant to be.

[Rater202]

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I mean, the entire point of the Overhaul arc is that his death flag is going to be averted. So I don't buy it.

I think All Might lives to see Deku become who he was meant to be.

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No,the point is that Deku is sufficiently determined to overcome fate.

All-Might is missing half of his organs, including most of his digestive track. It's honestly a miracle that he didn't keel over the second he transferred over One For All, and as we saw when Deku was talking to the previous users, All-Might is already mostly transferred over.

The battle against All For One shows that All-Might is too stubborn to die until Deku doesn't need him anymore... And he just did the last thing that Deku could need him for.

I'm expecting that he'll quietly pass on in his sleep with a "You don't need me anymore, not the way you did before, but I'll always be here for you if you need it" scene with his Spirit within One For All afterward.

[Douglas]

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That's a Death Flag.

All Might himself said that he couldn't die until he was done training Deku, and if Deku doesn't need him anymore then he's got nothing left to due but die peacefully and fully become part of All For One.

It's not guaranteed, but they've basically admitted that his part in the story is over now. I'd put good money on him passing on within the next couple of chapters.

I think you mean One For All, not All For One. You got it right in your next post talking about both of them, though.

For anyone who keeps mixing them up, it might help to keep in mind the origin/meaning of the two Quirk names: All quirks For One person, and One quirk For All people. AfO takes all valuable quirks for himself, while OfA is used to help everyone.

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No,the point is that Deku is sufficiently determined to overcome fate.

All-Might is missing half of his organs, including most of his digestive track. It's honestly a miracle that he didn't keel over the second he transferred over One For All, and as we saw when Deku was talking to the previous users, All-Might is already mostly transferred over.

The battle against All For One shows that All-Might is too stubborn to die until Deku doesn't need him anymore... And he just did the last thing that Deku could need him for.

I'm expecting that he'll quietly pass on in his sleep with a "You don't need me anymore, not the way you did before, but I'll always be here for you if you need it" scene with his Spirit within One For All afterward.

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That does sound like a narratively fitting end for All Might.

[Rater202]

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If you wanna get technical about it, All For One seems to be connected to the collection of souls, and we don't know if spirits thing is part of the "transfer" quirk or the "stockpiling" quirk.

And as pointed out in the text, One For All and All For One are ultimately just different applications of the same basic power, exchanging and collecting quirks and storing up power.

I'm 99% certain that All For One is going to die at somepoint and Deku will spontaneously inherit his collection of Quirks due to the connection. The only question is whether Shigaraki destroys his mentor to show he's gone too far off the deep end or if there's going to be another major threat at somepoint as either a mid-boss or villain after Shigaraki who kills All For One to get street Cred.

(If I'm right, I imagine that either 1: the entire collection would do dormant until much later or 2: Deku would return as many of them as possible to their rightful owners before distributing the rest to worthy wielders, keeping only the very dangerous ones for himself)

[Douglas]

Well, the anime's finally reached the point suitable for an episode title of "Infinite 100%".

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Thanks to some spoilers I've seen here and on the show's wiki, I knew immediately what that episode title was referring to the moment I saw the title last week: Deku using One For All at 100% for an extended period without injury, thanks to Eri's Quirk. That is an event I've been looking forward to seeing for quite a while.

Chisaki vs... the unleashed full power of the nascent next Symbol of Peace. He never stood a chance.

It was suitably dramatic, flashy, and short. All Might in his prime was in a league of his own, simply beyond the ability of anyone (save only All For One) to challenge, throughout the entire world. Deku tapping the full power of the same Quirk, even if it is hindered a bit by his less developed body, should be similarly overwhelming, instantly winning nearly any fight. And it was.

Once Deku realized what was happening and started intentionally taking advantage of it, he took to it quite well. He took the ability to punch or kick the air so hard it makes a shockwave and propels him in the opposite direction, and turned it into practically flying, with great speed and accuracy too. He quickly followed that up with a series of rapid fire remote punches that brutally blew Chisaki apart! The whole scene was very well done, and it was nice to have a logical reason other than determination/willpower for a main protagonist's mid-fight powerup for once, too.

Regarding changing the future that Nighteye saw, I suspect that it has to do with Eri's Quirk. He's said that he tested it many times, and even intentionally changing his own actions just makes the universe find another way to reach the same result, and we have no reason to doubt his competence and thoroughness in designing those tests. I suppose it could be that One For All is just that powerful, but Nighteye was All Might's sidekick. If One For All can change the future, he likely would have seen it happen at some point. Deku's sheer determination doing the job would fit some shonen tropes, but it would really seem like a cop-out to me. Eri's Quirk is the only new factor that has an obvious reason for why it might be able to change Nighteye's Foreseen future - it manipulates time, which is what Nighteye's Quirk looks through. And, of course, if not for Eri's Quirk the outcome undoubtedly would have been what Nighteye saw - Deku dead and Chisaki escaping with Eri; Deku injured and limited to at most 20% power was clearly outmatched by Chisaki.

[John Cribati]

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Regarding changing the future that Nighteye saw, I suspect that it has to do with Eri's Quirk. He's said that he tested it many times, and even intentionally changing his own actions just makes the universe find another way to reach the same result, and we have no reason to doubt his competence and thoroughness in designing those tests. I suppose it could be that One For All is just that powerful, but Nighteye was All Might's sidekick. If One For All can change the future, he likely would have seen it happen at some point. Deku's sheer determination doing the job would fit some shonen tropes, but it would really seem like a cop-out to me. Eri's Quirk is the only new factor that has an obvious reason for why it might be able to change Nighteye's Foreseen future - it manipulates time, which is what Nighteye's Quirk looks through. And, of course, if not for Eri's Quirk the outcome undoubtedly would have been what Nighteye saw - Deku dead and Chisaki escaping with Eri; Deku injured and limited to at most 20% power was clearly outmatched by Chisaki.

Actually, I think I have a more reasonable explanation

Spoiler: You Keep Using That Phrase

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The long and short of it is, Nighteye isn't straight-up clairvoyant. He's, as Elan would say, a future psychic.
No, literally. He touches a person, looks them in the eye, and in doing so can see up to one hour of the decisions and actions that they will make/take, from various points in the future.
His quirk by definition only takes into account the future actions of a single person. So when he "predicts" that Chisaki will get away with Eri and kill Deku, the only thing he knows for certain is what Chisaki will do. There are two other people in that prediction whose actions he can't be certain about.

Basically, he has his head a little bit too far up his ass as to what his quirk actually does.

[GloatingSwine]

Actually, I think I have a more reasonable explanation

Spoiler: You Keep Using That Phrase

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The long and short of it is, Nighteye isn't straight-up clairvoyant. He's, as Elan would say, a future psychic.
No, literally. He touches a person, looks them in the eye, and in doing so can see up to one hour of the decisions and actions that they will make/take, from various points in the future.
His quirk by definition only takes into account the future actions of a single person. So when he "predicts" that Chisaki will get away with Eri and kill Deku, the only thing he knows for certain is what Chisaki will do. There are two other people in that prediction whose actions he can't be certain about.

Basically, he has his head a little bit too far up his ass as to what his quirk actually does.

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The problem with that is that until this point his quirk has been 100% accurate. Every time he has used it before it has been completely accurate in every detail. That means he knows what the person he uses his quirk on will do in circumstances they cannot possibly predict. He does actually know that person's future, not merely what they will do, but also everything that will happen to them as a result of any possible outside agency.

Until this one specific circumstance which includes a person who can rewind time.

[Ramza00]

Nighteye

Spoiler: His Quirk

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When he fights someone he visualizes their movements, and his own movements with his quirk. He is almost untouchable for he knows where to move in order to dodge someone.

So can he not choose to not dodge and thus breaking his own divination? Can he not choose to get hit, his dodge to fail?

[Douglas]

Nighteye

Spoiler: His Quirk

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When he fights someone he visualizes their movements, and his own movements with his quirk. He is almost untouchable for he knows where to move in order to dodge someone.

So can he not choose to not dodge and thus breaking his own divination? Can he not choose to get hit, his dodge to fail?

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He said he's tried that sort of thing in his tests. The result has always been that any short term difference never becomes a long term difference - something else always happens to make the meaningful consequences turn out the same. This time, that didn't happen. Deku survives, Chisaki is captured, and Eri is rescued.

[Rater202]

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Maybe Sir Nighteye's power works on statistics rather than actual foresight?

An educated guess based on a form of clairvoyance and post cognition that gathers all available evidence to show the most likely outcome?

In which case, his power would be taking the short term changes he makes in his own behavior into account since he's already planning to act differently from how he foresees himself acting when calculating the result.

In which case, he was wrong with Deku becuase his visions aren't 100% accurate, merely 99.9 repeating or some such and Deku and Eri just got the one and a billion chance that Nighteye's power guessed wrong?

Or Maybe Deku is just so determined that he can defy fate? That's a common trope.

[Douglas]

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Maybe Sir Nighteye's power works on statistics rather than actual foresight?

An educated guess based on a form of clairvoyance and post cognition that gathers all available evidence to show the most likely outcome?

In which case, his power would be taking the short term changes he makes in his own behavior into account since he's already planning to act differently from how he foresees himself acting when calculating the result.

In which case, he was wrong with Deku becuase his visions aren't 100% accurate, merely 99.9 repeating or some such and Deku and Eri just got the one and a billion chance that Nighteye's power guessed wrong?

Or Maybe Deku is just so determined that he can defy fate? That's a common trope.

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He can gain information about the present by viewing the future, such as how he learned the route to Eri's room by checking her caretaker's future. Unless you're suggesting that his Quirk is practically omniscient about the current state of the world, statistical deductions from the present would not explain the almost perfect accuracy rate.

Deku's determination overcoming fate would match a common trope, yes, but as already mentioned I'd consider it a cop-out explanation. If that's all it takes, then a) it kind of invalidates the basic concept of the Quirk, and b) why hasn't Nighteye encountered it before in his entire lifetime of living with this Quirk and using it in hero work, where people with extreme determination are commonplace?

It would make much more sense for the cause to be something extremely rare and directly related to the nature of his Quirk - the intervention of another Quirk that manipulates time.

[LaZodiac]

We've discussed this back when this first came out and I'll bring it up again.

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Nighteye is so smart a person in general that his future readings are almost always going to be correct, regardless of outside sources. This has convinced him his predictions are perfect. He is not, however, perfect; his future sight is biased from his own mind. He did not believe it was possible, and so it did not appear to be possible. He underestimated Deku, did so for the entire time he knew him... and for the most part he was right to do so. But when push comes to shove Deku will pull through.

Meanwhile, new Vigilantes!

Pop wants to strike out on her own! The sorta useless manager actually gives her some solid advice... and may be a hero? Interesting.

[Rater202]

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He can gain information about the present by viewing the future, such as how he learned the route to Eri's room by checking her caretaker's future. Unless you're suggesting that his Quirk is practically omniscient about the current state of the world, statistical deductions from the present would not explain the almost perfect accuracy rate.

Deku's determination overcoming fate would match a common trope, yes, but as already mentioned I'd consider it a cop-out explanation. If that's all it takes, then a) it kind of invalidates the basic concept of the Quirk, and b) why hasn't Nighteye encountered it before in his entire lifetime of living with this Quirk and using it in hero work, where people with extreme determination are commonplace?

It would make much more sense for the cause to be something extremely rare and directly related to the nature of his Quirk - the intervention of another Quirk that manipulates time.

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That is exactly what I'm saying.

I dont know if yo'd be familiar with the Parahuman's series, but in that story Superpowers are the result of people's brains being wired to what are basically organic, multi-dimensional Supercomputers that have been steadily improving for billions of years and are the size of cities at the smallest by "space whales" made of the same computers partly becuase they want to know what humans will do with their powers and partly becuase this is part of their methods of both feeding and reproduction.

There is no magic or souls or fate in this series, or if there is the space whales have never had contact with any of it and don't know how it works.

Precognition in this series works exactly like that. You're not actually seeing the future, the alien supercomputer wired to your brain scans all relevant factors and makes an educated guess.

I'm speculating that Nighteye's power works like that.

In fact, in Ward, the second story in the series, a girl named Dinah Alcott forgets that her power, the second most powerful precognitive in the world, wasn't 100% reliable... Which is pretty ironic, since her power is asking questions about the future and getting percentages of how likely they are.

It's not hard for someone whose power is making really good guesses about what's going to happen in the future to confuse it for seeing a 100% accurate vision of the future.

[lord_khaine]

Thats just unfortunately not how his powers work.
He would not have been able to do the things he do, like calculate a route based on someone's movement.
Unless it was actual prediction.

So what the actual reason for his mistake at the end is unknown.
But i suspect its just the cheap "Deku's determination" thats pulled.

[Douglas]

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That is exactly what I'm saying.

I dont know if yo'd be familiar with the Parahuman's series, but in that story Superpowers are the result of people's brains being wired to what are basically organic, multi-dimensional Supercomputers that have been steadily improving for billions of years and are the size of cities at the smallest by "space whales" made of the same computers partly becuase they want to know what humans will do with their powers and partly becuase this is part of their methods of both feeding and reproduction.

There is no magic or souls or fate in this series, or if there is the space whales have never had contact with any of it and don't know how it works.

Precognition in this series works exactly like that. You're not actually seeing the future, the alien supercomputer wired to your brain scans all relevant factors and makes an educated guess.

I'm speculating that Nighteye's power works like that.

In fact, in Ward, the second story in the series, a girl named Dinah Alcott forgets that her power, the second most powerful precognitive in the world, wasn't 100% reliable... Which is pretty ironic, since her power is asking questions about the future and getting percentages of how likely they are.

It's not hard for someone whose power is making really good guesses about what's going to happen in the future to confuse it for seeing a 100% accurate vision of the future.

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I've read Worm. You might be right about most precognitive powers in that setting. Even Scion's abilities do fit that explanation. I think Contessa's power is probably a partial exception, though - there are beings it's blocked from accounting for, and it can do hypotheticals (which she uses to compensate for the blocks), so the predictions themselves can't be coming from checking the actual future; some kind of time loop consistency exploit in the calculations would explain how it's so much more efficient than even Scion's precog abilities, however.

In any case, Nighteye's Quirk working like that would be compatible with the known facts, but it's a much more complex explanation, and the story does not seem to be meaningfully concerned with the fundamental mechanics of how Quirks work. The extra complexity is unneeded, especially since there'd have to be a reason why he can't just access the information about the present directly, and Occam's razor favors the simpler explanation - the Foresight Quirk behaves as presented, and a Quirk that interferes with that behavior is involved in the only known instance of an incorrect prediction.

[LaZodiac]

I think it's pretty overt that Nighteye's quirk factors in personal bias. He's certain All Might will die, and doesn't have that spark of hope in him. Ergo, his vision always ends in his death.

Likewise, it's pretty clear that he believes Deku is not able to do this. He truly, genuinely believes him to be the wrong choice. He gave up on Deku, so his quirk leans towards bad futures. He saw Deku getting attacked by Overhaul as what would kill him, but Deku kept that hope alive.

You can definitely go for the less nuanced "Deku did die, but Eri's quirk kept him alive" option, but that feels so... meaningless and dumb. It makes way more sense, and fits the tone of the story, that Deku's hope and determination found a path Nighteye completely missed.

Also, as just an aside; all the things Nighteye has done to try and alter predictions was to just do things himself. Deku took the hope of everyone and worked together. You cannot change the future alone. It's symbolic and rules!

[Douglas]

You can definitely go for the less nuanced "Deku did die, but Eri's quirk kept him alive" option, but that feels so... meaningless and dumb. It makes way more sense, and fits the tone of the story, that Deku's hope and determination found a path Nighteye completely missed.

My opinion is the complete opposite - Eri's Quirk averting the prediction by manipulating time makes logical sense, and Nighteye misunderstanding his own Quirk would feel like the author blatantly lying to the audience.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

[Rater202]

Thats just unfortunately not how his powers work.
He would not have been able to do the things he do, like calculate a route based on someone's movement.
Unless it was actual prediction.

So what the actual reason for his mistake at the end is unknown.
But i suspect its just the cheap "Deku's determination" thats pulled.

Yes he would.

Because his power would have found out the route when taking their movement into acount.

My opinion is the complete opposite - Eri's Quirk averting the prediction by manipulating time makes logical sense, and Nighteye misunderstanding his own Quirk would feel like the author blatantly lying to the audience.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

How many people, in-universe, actually know how their quirks work?

All-Might had absolutely no idea that One For All was anything but raw power, and I'm just going to assume that Endeavor wasn't born knowing that he could hurt or kill himself if he used his power to its full extent.

Sir Nighteye having a flaw in his power that he didn't know about and thus couldn't exploit to see if he could change the futures he sees would be consistent with the fact that quirks are semi-random mutations.

Eri doesn't mess with time, per se. She doesn't reverse time, she alters you to a state you were at a previous point in time. The only way, I think, it makes sense that her power was the factor is if Deku's accumulated injuries were the factor that would have made him lose and Nighteye's vision didn't account for Eri healing him.

I think it's a flaw in the way that Nighteye gathers information to form a vision, and I think it's the more complicated manner because that makes more sense than his literally seeing the future.

[Traab]

My opinion is the complete opposite - Eri's Quirk averting the prediction by manipulating time makes logical sense, and Nighteye misunderstanding his own Quirk would feel like the author blatantly lying to the audience.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

I agree with you, loopholes are far better of an answer than something like, "Protag power quirk: Defy The Odds! Activated!" Its standard fare for things that predict the future, from prophecies to foreknowledge that there will be something that changes everything, from "No man can defeat me" to "Thus the earth will turn to ash" It then is discovered that "TWIST! Im a chick and imma stab you in da face meat!" or "Hi, my name is Ash Ketchum, and im gonna save the earth." Its more satisfying than "Lol no, im the hero therefore I can just NOT die."

[LaZodiac]

My opinion is the complete opposite - Eri's Quirk averting the prediction by manipulating time makes logical sense, and Nighteye misunderstanding his own Quirk would feel like the author blatantly lying to the audience.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

It is a stated in universe fact that people don't know the full extent of their own abilities, and over time they can alter their understanding of their quirk. Damage to your physical body can make your quirk manifest or work differently (Eraserhead's eyes have a cool down timer now after he blinks) and you can always learn more about your powers through training (Hagakure's invisibility is more and more looking to be a natural light manipulation that she's learing to focus).

It is ENTIRELY within the realm of possible that Nighteye's emotional trauma is stopping him from fully utilizing his quirk, and realizing it's less perfect future vision and more incredibly well educated guesses based on his vast intelligence and experience.

I agree with you, loopholes are far better of an answer than something like, "Protag power quirk: Defy The Odds! Activated!" Its standard fare for things that predict the future, from prophecies to foreknowledge that there will be something that changes everything, from "No man can defeat me" to "Thus the earth will turn to ash" It then is discovered that "TWIST! Im a chick and imma stab you in da face meat!" or "Hi, my name is Ash Ketchum, and im gonna save the earth." Its more satisfying than "Lol no, im the hero therefore I can just NOT die."

Loopholes are good for fated prophecies (though that latter one you refer to was added in the dub) but all Nighteye does is see a closed in version of your personal future path. There's no reason for this to be subverted via loophole, or for it to be true 100% unavoidable truth. It works in universe that Deku and the combined hope and drive to change the world, to SAVE the world, overpowered Nighteye's pessimism that made his future sight take on a somber tone.

Deku did not "break the prophecy by just not dying", he broke it by showing the sheer overwhelming power of trying, harder than ever before. I think, given he was a kid "Destined" to be useless due to his lack of quirk, that him kicking a supposed 100% accurate prediction to the curb through sheer force of will and determination is superior to Exact Wording Loopholes.

[Traab]

The thing is, thats at least equally likely to be the case as this IS a shonen, and thats how shonen anime roll. Didnt naruto do this with shion back during that arc? "Omg, my power to see the future is perfect, you are going to die." Naruto: "Pfft, dying is for people who arent going to be the worlds greatest hokage." /proceeds to not die because screw fate. I just prefer it when there is a logical or at least logicalish excuse, and a quirk like hers gives us that excuse. He saw deku die. Deku DIED. But he stopped looking then and didnt see it get undone. It would be like all might fighting all for one, "Omg all might, I saw your arm get crippled, you wont be able to punch with that arm." All Might: "Let me show you what I like to call a pro gamer move" /flexes his arm back together and punches with it. His vision wasnt wrong, just the conclusion he reached for what comes next.

As for not knowing the full extent, this is true, however, how often do people not know what their power actually IS? Like, do we ever see someone who is super strong, but doesnt realize his super strength is a byproduct of his actual quirk, absorbing energy around him? Or someone who thinks he can can breathe underwater but doesnt realize the truth is, he doesnt have to breathe at all? You know, a fundamental misunderstanding of what your power really is and how it works rather than not knowing the full extent of what it is capable of both good and bad.


*EDIT* Better example of shonen not dying in action might be literally every fight the hero gets into where they get beaten 50x over but because they are the shonen protagonist, they just stand back up again. And again. And again. Luffy versus katakuri, naruto versus whoever, (Thats like 90% of his fights pre timeskip) luffy versus everybody at marineford, etc etc etc. They are utterly overmatched, beaten into a bloody broken heap, but through sheer shonen determination they stand up for the billionth time despite having totally exhausted all their energy about 16 beatings ago and fight again. They may still lose in the end, kind of a coin flip, but they should be beyond dead.

[Ramza00]

The thing is, thats at least equally likely to be the case as this IS a shonen, and thats how shonen anime roll. Didnt naruto do this with shion back during that arc? "Omg, my power to see the future is perfect, you are going to die." Naruto: "Pfft, dying is for people who arent going to be the worlds greatest hokage."

If we are talking about this character from Naruto Shippuden the [1st] movie, then a reminder most people do not consider the movies canon unless Kishimoto wrote the movies (which he did with Naruto the Last and the Boruto movie)

https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Shion

Yes *teases* it is that discussion again which we had before.

Spoiler: A Joke

Show

Mirio: Nighteye you can't die!
Mirai:Why not Mirio?
Mirio: You must update your Quirk registration papers, this class 1A student Tenya is very adamant about proper paperwork and how you can't lie in the paperwork!
[Insert GIF here of Tenya complaining about the UA exam paperwork from the 3rd episode.]

[Lord Raziere]

*EDIT* Better example of shonen not dying in action might be literally every fight the hero gets into where they get beaten 50x over but because they are the shonen protagonist, they just stand back up again. And again. And again. Luffy versus katakuri, naruto versus whoever, (Thats like 90% of his fights pre timeskip) luffy versus everybody at marineford, etc etc etc. They are utterly overmatched, beaten into a bloody broken heap, but through sheer shonen determination they stand up for the billionth time despite having totally exhausted all their energy about 16 beatings ago and fight again. They may still lose in the end, kind of a coin flip, but they should be beyond dead.

Maybe I am biased, but I like both of these tropes, even if they can be done badly, but even then I like them better than the alternative: that they can't actually change their fate. no seriously, screw fate, any universe gets worse if fate is an actual effective thing because it just makes all the characters decisions and actions meaningless.

now shonen fights probably shouldn't all be standing back up and being beaten down constantly? I like the trope, I admit. I'm a sucker for it. the irony is that shonen constantly employs its logical counterpart with actual explanation, regeneration as a villain power. so why does anime keep doing this even though they could have an explanation right there?

because its all about embodying something. the main character is often embodying a certain specific ideal that leads to the trope: an ideal of keeping going no matter what pain the world inflicts on you, metaphorically, figuratively or physically. regeneration would be cheating that if your a purist of that ideal because its a modification to what humanity is so the pain disappears in seconds instead of being endured and overcome.

its kind of why Batman is prepared for everything even though that logically can't happen in real life: he embodies an ideal about humanity so the story extends that ideal to the point where it can express itself in any situation to show the reader why that ideal is important. its just that shonen heroes embody different ideals that don't quite match up with the ideals that make sense to you. probably because you have a different idea of what an ideal hero is.