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2007-10-17, 07:39 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
Spellcraft, Detect Magic, and Illusions
It seems to me that any mage with max ranks in spellcraft and a reasonably high int modifier will see through most illusions. Also, detect magic- a zero level spell defeating level 5 spells?
Surely that's not how this stuff works, or should work, is it?
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2007-10-17, 07:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
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- Look behind you...
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Re: Spellcraft, Detect Magic, and Illusions
I think you need to concentrate for three rounds to get it working. Also, the 1st level spell, Nystull's Magic Aura, can hide magical auras. So, there is rarely time for a wizard in combat to check if there's an illusion or not.
Last edited by Armads; 2007-10-17 at 07:43 AM.
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2007-10-17, 07:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- London
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Re: Spellcraft, Detect Magic, and Illusions
That sounds fine to me, the cantrip isn't what defeats the spell, it's just there to gather information that the experianced genius level intellect mind of an expert on illusions and spellcasting then interprets. It's the skill spellcraft that defeats the illusion (or a well honed sense of self ie:will save). That being said the illusions aren't generally cast against casters, they're great vs big dumb types like monsters and barbs, exactly what illusions should be aimed at rather than the smartasses that realize the unfeasibility of most encounter winning illusions and scenarios. This also depends on having detect magic up at all times which necesitates permenancy which puts it at a high enough level that there are plenty of scarey things that a competative caster coud also be doing that the illusions won't be the only tactic to watch for.
Give them bread and circusses and the plebs wont rise against you. Give adventurers dungeons and trapped chests and they won't waste time looking to ransack your home and kill your wife.
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2007-10-17, 07:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2006
- Location
- Croatia
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Re: Spellcraft, Detect Magic, and Illusions
The way I see it, a mage can make a spellcraft check to recognize the just-cast spell in his vicinity an illusion (normal DC 15+level) and its name. He could automatically get an attempt to disbelieve it even from distance, and if he shouted a warning to his companions they would get a +2 or something bonus on their Will saves to disbelieve it when they interacted with it (like "it's only an illusion of a pool of acid, but do you dare to jump?).
There is no good and evil. There is only more and less.
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2007-10-17, 07:49 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Location
- London, England.
Re: Spellcraft, Detect Magic, and Illusions
Yup, determining the school of magic in a magical effect is something detect magic gives you only after three rounds concentration.
Anyway, what are you going to do - detect magic for three rounds on everything you see just to find out if it's an illusion? That's impractical in a fight.
Even outside combat, detect-magicing everything is likely to get you lynched by the rest of your group after the hundredth time or so.
"Is the door magical?"
"No."
"Is the wall magical?"
"No."
"Is the window magical?"
"No."
"I go inside. Is the floor magical?"
"No."
"Are the stairs magical?"
"No."
"Is the furniture magical?"
"No."
"Is anything under the bed magical?"
"No!"
"Are any of the items in the room magical?"
"No!"
"I go upstairs. Is the next door magical?"
"Yes. It's got a wish effect on it."
"Really?"
"No."
- SaphI'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and the final book in the series, Risen, is out as of December 2021. For updates, check my blog!
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2007-10-17, 09:13 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
Re: Spellcraft, Detect Magic, and Illusions
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2007-10-17, 10:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
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2007-10-17, 10:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
- Location
- *stab*
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2007-10-17, 10:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
- Location
- London
- Gender
Re: Spellcraft, Detect Magic, and Illusions
Give them bread and circusses and the plebs wont rise against you. Give adventurers dungeons and trapped chests and they won't waste time looking to ransack your home and kill your wife.
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2007-10-17, 10:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
- Location
- *stab*
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2007-10-17, 03:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Gender
Re: Spellcraft, Detect Magic, and Illusions
Hmmm.. permanent arcane sight?
Magic here? No.
Magic there? No.
Magic anywhere in sight? Well, the rogue is basically covered in magical auras, as are you, and the fighter, and the cleric... so no.
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2007-10-17, 04:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
- Location
- Westland, Michigan
- Gender
Re: Spellcraft, Detect Magic, and Illusions
All hail the Dark One!
"Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience" I'm a level 8 Idiot.
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2007-10-17, 04:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2005
- Location
- Houston, TX, USA
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Re: Spellcraft, Detect Magic, and Illusions
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectMagic.htm
Point to where it says your eyes glow blue.
FWIW, I often make glasses of reading and detecting magic. Useful things to have, and all it requires is two cantrips and Craft Wondrous Item.The Cranky Gamer
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2007-10-17, 04:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
- Location
- London
- Gender
Re: Spellcraft, Detect Magic, and Illusions
Give them bread and circusses and the plebs wont rise against you. Give adventurers dungeons and trapped chests and they won't waste time looking to ransack your home and kill your wife.
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2007-10-17, 04:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Gender
Re: Spellcraft, Detect Magic, and Illusions
Why would that cause migraines any more than normal people constantly seeing all sorts of stuff in the visible electromagnetic spectrum?
2. Your glowing blue eyes would make you the target of everyone.
I wear my sunglasses at night
So I can, so I can
Hide my unnatural glowing eyes.
3. Magic aura would spell your doom.
Pity Wizards are so Intelligent.
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2007-10-17, 04:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Gender
Re: Spellcraft, Detect Magic, and Illusions
1) O..k... rules discussion aside, I'm not sure how seeing glowing stuff gives me migraines, y'know, what with all the people who've done this without migraines. Maybe elves, since they don't sleep, get migraines? (Why is there no trope for this!? Psychic nosebleed, but no headaches from magic?!)
2) Contact lenses? Other options include green disintegrate, prestidigitation, Hats of Disguise and so forth.
3) Bwuh?! You mean... I show up as magical? I do anyways. You know how much gear I'm carting around at that level?
Or, do you mean, seeing a magic aura means doom?
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2007-10-17, 05:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Location
- London, England.
Re: Spellcraft, Detect Magic, and Illusions
I actually ruled out ever getting a permanent Arcane Sight for my wizard just because of the blue-glowing-eyes thing. When I'm not on adventures I like to be able to pretend I'm normal and just chat to people around town, not wear a flashing sign saying "POWERFUL SORCERESS HERE."
And I'm not wearing permanent sunglasses. Not only would it look ridiculous indoors, they'd clash with my headband.
- SaphLast edited by Saph; 2007-10-17 at 05:31 PM.
I'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and the final book in the series, Risen, is out as of December 2021. For updates, check my blog!
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2007-10-17, 05:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Gender
Re: Spellcraft, Detect Magic, and Illusions
But think of the potential lines!
"Hey, baby. Wanna go back to my place and make some magic?"
"Your eyes are like--holy crap, what the hell is with your eyes?"
---
Incidentally, Detect Magic and the like ferreting them out, Spellcraft identifying them during casting, and such, are valid methods of dealing with the otherwise very powerful Image spells.
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2007-10-17, 08:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
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- Westland, Michigan
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Re: Spellcraft, Detect Magic, and Illusions
I was making a joke. I figure the constant sight of magical aura would get a bit tiresome. Detect magic doesn't have the overwhelming aura like detect eveil does, so that's not an issue. I wonder if you would still see the aura if you closed your eyes...
Ohh. I don't know if any of those things would make the glowing blue eyes that Arcane Sight causes go away.
The spell Magic Aura, aka Nystuls magic aura. If you are used to sonstantly seeing the magical auras your character might forget that magical aura can be hidden with a minor spell...All hail the Dark One!
"Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience" I'm a level 8 Idiot.
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2007-10-17, 08:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
Re: Spellcraft, Detect Magic, and Illusions
What moron casts illusions in a battle? You spy your enemies, cast before hand, and they're gone. If you do it right, no one ever makes a will save, because they decide not to mess with whatever situation you created.
Unless they're a mage. In that case, they get an automatic spellcraft check of 20+spell level (23 for greater image) to know that they're looking at an illusion spell. It's like elves and detecting secret doors, except in this case it's anyone who put ranks in spellcraft and illusions.
And Saph, once you cast detect magic, you can study a room for like 6 seconds and determine if anything is glowing in magic auras. If not, you move on. Note that the range is personal. You don't actually cast it on every single object in the room.
If a suspicious wizard casts detect magic and looks at an illusion, he would realize immediately that something was up when the whole thing glowed like a christmas tree.
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2007-10-17, 08:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
Re: Spellcraft, Detect Magic, and Illusions
Hypothetical question:
If some guards capture you, and, hating you simply because you are a tiefling and *could* be evil, they find it fun to beat you senseless and carve out your eyes (uh, yeah. Bad stuff happens to me). Would glow still come out of where the eyes used to be? Also, could you see the blurred colors of magic auras, but nothing else?butter pecan ice cream is best
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2007-10-17, 08:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
Re: Spellcraft, Detect Magic, and Illusions
Does anyone actually know a RAW answer?
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2007-10-17, 08:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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- Boston
- Gender
Re: Spellcraft, Detect Magic, and Illusions
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2007-10-17, 08:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
Re: Spellcraft, Detect Magic, and Illusions
Rather, it shouldn't work like that unless you're a complete moron.
You can check the entire area of the cone. You don't need to check each individual object in the rea. Everything you can see within sixty feet. At that point, the DM has a responsibility to just tell you if you see any magical auras (and where they are on the third round of concentration). If a player keeps asking for each individual object, they're either an idiot or being deliberately obtuse.I am a poor man, some say I’m half crazy,
son of the sword and the knife
Lady I pledge you my sword and my honor,
my heart and my pride and my life
--Bella Doña, by Joe Bethancourt
Spoiler
Alas, poor Draknir. By Mephibosheth
Owl-atar by KingGolem
You will be missed, dear 'stache...
-
2007-10-17, 11:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Re: Spellcraft, Detect Magic, and Illusions
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2007-10-18, 03:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
Re: Spellcraft, Detect Magic, and Illusions
I was pretty much just assuming that he was indicating where his vision was going, and since they opened a door and went into another room they would need to check again.
I know how Detect Magic works, I'm just saying that you do have to specifiy that you are concentrating, so you do have to ask the DM, "Magic Auras?" if you want to see things.
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2007-10-18, 05:49 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Location
- London, England.
Re: Spellcraft, Detect Magic, and Illusions
It actually takes longer than that, if you want to cover a room completely; unless the room is cone-shaped, the walls will block you from seeing all the squares in one go. Then you have to look up and down.
Then you have to take into account that divination spells don't go through certain types of barriers, so if a room's cluttered, you have to spend a while studying it from every angle.
But this is all doable. A more serious problem I've found is that DMs often forget to mention some of the magic auras, especially if they're playing from a pre-made module - the spells on the room and monsters and items are usually all listed in different places. I'm playing in a WLD campaign, and when I cast Detect Magic to scan a room the DM always misses at least one aura (have you seen the size of the WLD book?), and I have to go over each thing carefully.
- SaphI'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and the final book in the series, Risen, is out as of December 2021. For updates, check my blog!
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2007-10-18, 06:53 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
- Location
- Westland, Michigan
- Gender
Re: Spellcraft, Detect Magic, and Illusions
One thing that I've always wondered is if you can walk around with detect magic active. It's a cone shape emination, not a personal spell. If you move, does the cone move with you or is it still from the base square.
All hail the Dark One!
"Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience" I'm a level 8 Idiot.
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2007-10-18, 02:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Location
- Tallahassee, Florida
Re: Spellcraft, Detect Magic, and Illusions
For myself, I rule the following:
The attempt at detecting magic counts as an attempt at disbelief. If the detector fails their saving throw, the illusion supercedes the detection ability and it radiates whatever the illusion-caster says it does.
Spellcraft works differently. You have to believe or have proof that something is magical to use Spellcraft on it. If you cannot identify an effect you cannot use Spellcraft.The easy I do before breakfast,
The difficult I do all day long,
The impossible achieved during the workweek,
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2007-10-18, 06:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
Re: Spellcraft, Detect Magic, and Illusions
But spellcraft occurs automatically. It's like being able to sense magic is there, because you know what its signs are. Just like an elf gets to role a search check for a hidden door, even if it doesn't know there's a door there.
I mean, if it doesn't require an action to do, there's no reason why a caster can't say- "i'm making spellcraft checks constantly," as it literally takes no time.
[edit]
Maybe a spellcraft check first, and if that succeeds, then they get a will save?Last edited by Tor the Fallen; 2007-10-18 at 06:14 PM.