New Class Philosophy

[Brother_Franklin]

I, for one, am really psyked about the new charater class philosphy that seems to prevade in 4E. It seems to me [personal interpretation warning] that there will be three major elements that can go into a charater class: the Role, the Power Source, and the Non-combat abilities.

Now the Power Source and the Role should pretty much define how things go in combat- and therby basically make for a wide variety of very functional DnD charaters. I imagine new powersources will come up in supplements.

On the other hand, what I really really hope is that their is a really good system for changing a charaters non-combat abilities in the DMG.

For instance the bard is a really cool charater. It's a leader with an arcane power source- I assume. And then out of combat they have powers to talk their way into and out of situations, seduce people, and play awesome music.

But let's say I'm playing a desert campaign and the bard just don't quite fit. Let's keep the combat the same but change his out of combat abilities. Let's make a proticall master. Let's emphisie the diplomacy, get rid of the music, but keep the arcane power based on leadership spells he's learned.

Allowing DMs with their players to freely ajust non-combat roles would not only allow a plethora of charater architypes to exist, but also allow for many types of campagins to go more smoothly.

Another example. Imagine a theif campaign that still had a striker, a controller, a defender, and a leader, but all of their non-combat abilities where traded for theiving skills. So you could have four charaters climb up the walls, sneak into a house, and still be decent when they eventually have to fight the golem guarding the biggest treasure.

Sorry, if that's kinda rambling- but someone take this ball.

[Starbuck_II]

For instance the bard is a really cool charater. It's a leader with an arcane power source- I assume. And then out of combat they have powers to talk their way into and out of situations, seduce people, and play awesome music.

But let's say I'm playing a desert campaign and the bard just don't quite fit. Let's keep the combat the same but change his out of combat abilities. Let's make a proticall master. Let's emphisie the diplomacy, get rid of the music, but keep the arcane power based on leadership spells he's learned.

Bardic Music in 3.0 + 3.5 is a misnomer: It is Bardic Perform (insert name) not music. Unless Speeches count as music.
So assumingly, you do not have to get Rid of Bardic Music: just change the name. Bardic Leadership maybe.

[Quietus]

Bardic Music in 3.0 + 3.5 is a misnomer: It is Bardic Perform (insert name) not music. Unless Speeches count as music.
So assumingly, you do not have to get Rid of Bardic Music: just change the name. Bardic Leadership maybe.

Don't forget dances, they work as well. And yet, a bard who focusses on dancing as their preferred style of performance can use Still Spell, but CANNOT use silent spell.

[Valairn]

Having a good theory of how classes are created for DnD is a really good starting point for 4th edition. It is clear in 3/3.5 that they thought a lot about general mechanics, but did not place nearly as much emphasis on class development. I like the new direction.

[TSGames]

Don't forget dances, they work as well. And yet, a bard who focusses on dancing as their preferred style of performance can use Still Spell, but CANNOT use silent spell.

I find I've always been partial to breakdancing bards myself.

Or in a more general sense, characters with ranks in perform(dramatic pose).

[mabriss lethe]

Bardic Music in 3.0 + 3.5 is a misnomer: It is Bardic Perform (insert name) not music. Unless Speeches count as music.
So assumingly, you do not have to get Rid of Bardic Music: just change the name. Bardic Leadership maybe.

I had a great time playing a "bard" recently. He wasn't a travelling performer. He was a Call of Cthulhu-style evil cultist. The dm and I didn't really need to change the mechanics at all to make it fit. the cultist still "performed," chanting litanies to dead gods and unnamable horrors. Instead of using musical instruments, he used other props like dusty tomes filled with maddening verses and images, occult symbols and tools. The only mechanical modifications the dm and I finally made were simple, theme appropriate things like deciding to ditch perform as the required skill and replace it with spellcraft(decided halfway through the first few games that it just seemed to fit better and switched off from there.) and replacing the Summon Monster 1-6 spells with the equivalent Summon Undead spells from Libris Mortis.