Newbie question, apologies.

[Cocky]

Can I grapple someone who is mounted? As in grapple him and not the horse? Or even just to wrest him from his saddle? Couldn't find the answer in the usual places, including searching here.

Thanks.

[MrNexx]

Can I grapple someone who is mounted? As in grapple him and not the horse? Or even just to wrest him from his saddle? Couldn't find the answer in the usual places, including searching here.

Thanks.

First of all, your name is "Cocky" and you ask a question this apologetically? You should be sorry!

However, I would say yes but I would give him an initial advantage for being 4 legged and larger, unless you're able to attack him without his height advantage (from another mount, or from some elevated platform). If you're trying to grapple him and he's mounted, you've got to deal with his stability from forking the horse (possibly aided by a military saddle), and the fact that he's above you (all you can do is grab is leg or arm and heave; his body is less accessible). Once you get him off the horse, he's got no advantage.

[AslanCross]

Sure you could, but as Mr. Nexx said, he'd have a modifier of some sort from being rather firmly fastened to a horse. I'd also say he might be able to do a Ride check to oppose your grapple check to avoid getting unhorsed.

[Raolin_Fenix]

I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to grapple a mounted guy. If anything, it'd probably be easier since he's got to worry about balancing on his horse. The rider isn't stable; the horse is. You might even be able to pin the guy to the horse, provided you manage to mount up first and keep on board.

I imagine you're trying to wrestle the dude off his horse? Yeah, I can't see why that would provoke any particular penalties, beyond the normal ones. You'd still provoke an AoO, for instance, from both rider and horse, unless you have improved grapple. Then you'd provoke an AoO from the horse as you move into the target's square. And so forth. But yeah, mounted people are still people.

[Mike_Lemmer]

Barbed devil did this to my PC once; too bad modifiers for being secured on a horse are nothing compared to a grapple-built monster's modifiers. (Then again, nothing compares to a grapple-built monster's modifiers.)

[Townopolis]

The rules are indeed fuzzy on this issue. However, as far as I can tell according to the RAW, there are no special modifiers. You make grapple attempts as normal. You start with a touch attack, he gets a +1 on his AoO because he's mounted, etc...

Once you have him in grapple, I'm not sure if he stays mounted or not. Either way though, I don't think "Guide mount with knees" is on the list of actions you can take while grappling, so he couldn't use the mount to move anyways. A paladin's mount or an animal companion mount might pose a problem though, especially the paladin's mount since it is an intelligent being.

Attempting to move the grappled opponent would, presumably, remove him from the saddle if successful, but I don't know.

This is all just according to RAW as far as I am able to reckon it.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Can I grapple someone who is mounted? As in grapple him and not the horse? Or even just to wrest him from his saddle? Couldn't find the answer in the usual places, including searching here.

Why should you have to offer apologies? (Except for maybe not using a more informative subject line. Like "Grappling Mounted Characters". ) Everyone starts out as a newbie. And this is a pretty tough question anyway.

Now the situation isn't really addressed by the rules, so you have to come up with something yourself.

Here are my thoughts:

Unless you have improved grab, when you grapple, you have to move into your opponent's space when starting a grapple. This suggests you will have to somehow get on your opponent's mount yourself.

Of course, once you're on the mount, you will be sharing your space with the mount and its original rider right off the bat. That means you would effectively already grappling. As such, I suggest combining the mount/grapple attempt as part of a single full-round action. You will get one attempt, and your opponent should probably get an AoO even if you have Improved Grapple. You should probably also take a penalty between -4 and -8 to your Grapple Check.

For most standard mounts such as horses, it would probably be pretty difficult to keep balanced without a saddle. So your opponent should probably have a +2 to +4 bonus to escape the grapple by knocking you off the mount. (Note typically the one escaping the grapple is ejected, but in this case, I think that it would be reversed.) Likewise, a character in a saddle would give you a penalty to push him off the mount (-4 for standard, -8 for military).

The situation described above may change with nonstandard mounts.

As I mentioned before, in most cases, starting a grapple requires you move into your opponent's space, so you would not be able to pull your opponent off its mount as part of a grapple. However, I can see pulling a mounted opponent down as it's own action. I would run it just like a Trip attack, except it is its own standard action and you do not gain any benefit from things like Improved Trip (it's not an actual trip attempt), and the puller should take a -4 penalty to his Strength check (-10 if in a military saddle). If successful, the mounted opponent simply falls prone to the ground (possibly taking some falling damage), and you have to take a regular attack to grapple him or her.

Creatures with Improved Grab can pull other creatures into their space, so they should be able to wrest an opponent off their mount as part of a regular grapple. A rider in a regular saddle should have a +2 (or more) bonus to resist the grapple and a +6 or +8 if in a military saddle.

Now, these are just initial thoughts from off the top of my head. They haven't been tested in any way, but they pretty well stick to existing rules, so they should be easy to use. I think they should work just fine.

[Cocky]

I find it best to hide my arrogance when I first debut myself MrNexx:)

And thanks for the advice guys, not a cut and dry issue 'eh? I'll have a word with our GM then.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

I find it best to hide my arrogance when I first debut myself MrNexx:)

You can do that without overly-downplaying yourself, you know.

(Hope you saw my previous response. Timestamps indicate simu-post. I was too wordy for you to be able to read it in less than a minute. )

[Cocky]

Heh, it is a good idea Shh.. I had a word with my DM and group and I think we have decided on something at least, no Grappling vs a moving mount, only trip attempts (They reasoned that attempting to grab hold of a leg at 40mph might have adverse consequences), and vs a stationary mount upon a succesful grapple initiation, (Military saddles have a bonus) I may make an attempt to throw them from the horse upon another OGC, I think we decided that to continue grappling without a throw of some sort would require a succesful mount check. Oh and the horse gets an AOO regardless of Imp' Grapple.

This decision is both better and worse than I had hoped:)

It would be nice to get an official ruling on the issue however, as from our 'discussion' we all have different ideas of what 'logical' means ...

[RS14]

Tripping a Mounted Opponent

You may make a trip attack against a mounted opponent. The defender may make a Ride check in place of his Dexterity or Strength check. If you succeed, you pull the rider from his mount.

I'd rule that grappling your opponent is simply that... You grab him and grapple him while he is still on the horse. You must mount the mount(possibly requiring a ride check) instead of moving into his space, and moving the grapple can be used to pull both of you off.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

* Quoting the SRD *

Hm. Yeah. Missed that.

I guess pulling a mounted opponent down is officially a Trip attempt.

[Kompera]

40 mph is a bit extreme, even for a galloping charge. With a jocky (read: very light rider), zero gear other than a saddle, and on a horse bred for speed, you can see those speeds. Most adventuring situations will have heavier riders, gear up to and including barding, and the horse will be very likely to have been selected for endurance over speed. A 30 mph gallop is more reasonable, with any M sized rider but no other weight other than a saddle and tack. Slower if encumbered with the typical PC cornucopia of gear and loot.

Caveat: I'm AFB, so perhaps a 40 MPH gallop is RAW.

I'd allow attempts to grapple so long as the mount was not engaged in a charge. There is plenty of precedence for such a maneuver in westerns and such, and this is indeed a fantasy game where heroic actions should be made possible. Off the cuff, modifiers would be +4 for saddle, +1 for height advantage, and possibly +2 for a "military" saddle (+6 total for saddle in this case), although just about everyone other than the peasantry and merchant classes would be using this so it might be best to just keep it simple with just +4 for the saddle.

Edit: Ninjas!