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2007-10-22, 12:17 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
- Location
- Montréal
- Gender
Outsiders disappear when they die?
I remember reading this, but I have no idea where. Is it true that outsiders get shunted back to their plane of origin when they die?
Thanks,
-me
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2007-10-22, 12:33 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Location
- Imagination Land
- Gender
Re: Outsiders disappear when they die?
If you are referring to summoned outsiders, then of course they return to their plane of origin when being "killed" ends the spell effect.
If you are referring to outsiders who were called or teleported onto this plane, then I'm not sure I have heard anything that applies to all outsiders that says they return to their plane of origin. You could be remembering the parts from both Fiendish Codex 1 & 2 that talk about how demons and devils who are killed outside of their native plane get reformed there after a certain amount of time has passed. But still, I have only heard this about demons and devils, since no other outsiders have gotten their own books written about them, though I could definitely understand applying that rule to the other types as well.
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2007-10-22, 01:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Metro Manila, Philippines
- Gender
Re: Outsiders disappear when they die?
Demons and Devils reform in their home plane about 100 years after being killed on the Prime Material. (or was it 99?) If you kill them on their home plane, they die permanently.
Unfortunately, we don't know about the good outsiders much, and as much as I'd like to assume they reform, there's no evidence to support that. The BoED mentions some outsiders (the former members of the Celestial Hebdomad) getting killed permanently, but I assume that happened on their home plane.
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2007-10-22, 02:17 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
Re: Outsiders disappear when they die?
"'Lo, there do I see my father. 'Lo, there do I see my mother, and my sisters, and my brothers. 'Lo, there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning. 'Lo, they do call to me. They bid me take my place among them. In the halls of Valhalla where the brave may live forever."
-The 13th Warrior
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2007-10-22, 02:24 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
- Location
Re: Outsiders disappear when they die?
I don't think there's anything written about outsiders (other than demons and devils) reforming. But then, there really isn't a whole lot written about outsiders other than demons and devils, at least in comparison. They have a way of expanding a lot on the things PCs are likely to be fighting, and PCs are less likely to be fighting devas than fiends.
That being said, I think the philosophy behind it all is basically this: when you die, your soul is immediately transported to the afterlife appropriate to your alignment. If you're an angel, and you die in, say, the elemental plane of fire, your soul crosses the border back into heaven. 'Course, if you're an angel, your soul is essentially you, so yeah, you seem to disappear.
When you're on your "native" plane and you die, well, you don't really have anywhere to go. You're already there. But now you're dead. So you stay that way. Maybe you become one with the plane, or something.
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2007-10-22, 05:46 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
- Location
Re: Outsiders disappear when they die?
But what about the Revive Outsider spell? (Dunno where it's from, saw it in SC)
If a tree falls in the forest and the PCs aren't around to hear it... what do I roll to see how loud it is?
Is 3.5 a fried-egg, chili-chutney sandwich?
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2007-10-22, 05:59 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2005
- Location
- Appalachian Mountains
Re: Outsiders disappear when they die?
'Course, if you're an angel, your soul is essentially youAratos Tell
HP:53/53 AC:19,FlatFooted:16,Touch:13
Active Effects: Speak w/Animals
Spells Prepared: Cure Minor Wounds*4, Flare, Calm Animals, Charm Animal, Cure Light Wounds, Animal Messenger, Flaming Sphere, Lesser Restoration, Hold Animal, Cure Mod. Wounds*2, Speak w/Plants
Megiddo
HP:26/26 PP: 40/40 AC:14,FlatFooted:13,Touch:13
Active Effects:
Spells Prepared: Light*2, Burning Hands*2, Protection f/Evil, Magic Missile, Shocking Grasp, See Invis., Acid Arrow, Scorching Ray*2
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2007-10-22, 09:24 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
Re: Outsiders disappear when they die?
When a demon or devil is killed the Prime Material Plane they are sent back to their native plane and banished for 100 years from the Prime Material Plane.
They can only be killed permantely in their native realms. Though I believe a demon can be killed permantely in the nine hells and that a devil can be killed permantely in the Abyss.
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2007-10-22, 09:42 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Central MA
- Gender
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2007-10-22, 09:57 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- Location
- A little burg in northern Alabama
- Gender
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2007-10-22, 10:02 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: Outsiders disappear when they die?
The "99 Years to Reform" rule is out of the FCII. Which is contradicted a lot, by saying that devils will seek revenge when killed...against the retirement home cemetery, apparently.
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2007-10-22, 10:15 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- Location
- A little burg in northern Alabama
- Gender
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2007-10-22, 10:32 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
- Location
- Lost in Time and Space
- Gender
Re: Outsiders disappear when they die?
What about level 20 monks? Do they return to their plane? Isn't their plane THIS one? I know you can ressurect them under normal conditions, but maybe their body stays and their soul .......I don't know anymore. SO CONFUSED!
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2007-10-22, 10:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- Seattle, WA
- Gender
Re: Outsiders disappear when they die?
If you read FR, in the Crystal Shard (featuring everyones favorite duel scimitar wielding lavender-eyed icon), Drizzt "slays" Ertu on the prime material plane. Its been a while since I read it, but for some reason, the number 101 years is in my head. Since someone else mentioned 99 years, I believe its safe to assume that that is 100 years +/- 1 year margin of error.
I'm reletively sure this policy only applies to "true" demons and devils too. Pit Fiends, Cornuguns, Ice Devils, Balors, Mariliths, etc. Your lower echelon baddies don't have that kind of protection until they evolve into more baddass forms.
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2007-10-22, 10:44 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- Location
- A little burg in northern Alabama
- Gender
Re: Outsiders disappear when they die?
Well, again, back in the Planescape days (I'm the guy that created Planewalker.com - the Official Planescape website, so all of my frames of reference are going to be related to PS); this was true for any fiend - true, lesser, demon (tanar'ri), devil (baatezu), daemon (yugoloth), or whatevah... :)
Brannon "Ashy" Hollingsworth
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2007-10-22, 10:57 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
- Location
Re: Outsiders disappear when they die?
If a tree falls in the forest and the PCs aren't around to hear it... what do I roll to see how loud it is?
Is 3.5 a fried-egg, chili-chutney sandwich?
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2007-10-22, 02:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2005
- Location
Re: Outsiders disappear when they die?
Except in the book it didn't take him that long to get back. I believe the rule used in that book was that Ertu could not RETURN to the prime materia on his own power for ~100 years. In the book (or maybe the next one) Ertu answers a summons, finds a mistake in the summoning seal and breaks free, going after drizzt much less than 100 years later.
so its not 100 years to reform (in FR) but a 100 year banishment, unless you get invited back, which makes more sense in my mind, espeacially since time in the abyss might not move at the same speed as in the world etc.Chaos is the friend of those who make no enemies and form no alliances.
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2007-10-22, 02:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Location
- Mountain View, CA
- Gender
Re: Outsiders disappear when they die?
More specifically, the banishment lasts 100 years or until you get invited back by the person who banished you. Errtu was only able to answer the apprentice wizard's summoning because he had already been summoned once at Drizz't's request. I have no idea where this rule might be in actual rulebooks, but that's how it works in Salvatore's novels.
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2007-10-22, 03:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Nifty Avatar made by Ink.
Re: Outsiders disappear when they die?
Has anyone checked the Manual of the Planes, the old Planescape setting, or even AD&D 2nd edition for precedents that may or may not have been carried over? I am almost certain I have seen written that outsiders (not just fiends) return to their native plane when they are slain and the only way to kill them permanently is to slay them in their native plane. I havn’t seen that in any D&D 3rd ed books, but if it’s not there, then It should be.
Why should fiends have an even more perfect immortality then celestials or those freaky limbo toads? (I demand equal rights for extra planer entities!)
Maybe it’s less written about because few people actually care to go out of their way to permanently destroy a celestial or modron, whereas fiends tend to be reoccurring troublemakers.
Either way, from what I understand, you are left with a lump of material that's roughly body-shaped, that was their physical manifestation while on the material plane, but if you gated back over to <Insert native Plane here> for example, you should be able to find that being (probably with a splitting headache and unable to visit your plane again for a while).Last edited by draca; 2007-10-22 at 03:53 PM.
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2007-10-22, 04:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Metro Manila, Philippines
- Gender
Re: Outsiders disappear when they die?
Ah, I see. I hadn't read that and I thought it would be the same for both demons and devils. Devils definitely take 99 years to reform, according to the FC2. When they get back to the Nine Hells, they're usually demoted (#1 fear of devils. Ugh, Nupperibos.).
If they're slain in the Nine Hells, they stay dead.
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Sakuya Izayoi avatar by Mr. Saturn. Caella sig by Neoseph.
"I dunno, you just gave me the image of a nerd flying slow motion over a coffee table towards another nerd, dual wielding massive books. It was awesome." -- Marriclay