Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

[Quartz]

So are all the others.

Kraagor got destroyed by the Snarl. Lirian and Dorukan have been soul-bound by Xykon. Soon and Girard are dead. Serini's fate is unknown.

[Quebbster]

Technically Kraagor is even more gone than “dead”.

Yes, that's what we have been told.

Also, Soon and Girard both likely died from old age

Yeah, those two coming back is very unlikely.

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and the casters are Soul Bound by Xykon

Not familiar with the exact mechanics there, but I could see that being reversible, particularly since those two were the ones who figured out how to seal the rifts.

[Rogar Demonblud]

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Not familiar with the exact mechanics there, but I could see that being reversible, particularly since those two were the ones who figured out how to seal the rifts.

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Basically, you have three options.
1. find a piece of their bodies, cast Clone, put the spirits in the clone per usual.
2. make a golem and stick the spirit in the golem. You need a very specific type of golem for them to retain spellcasting.
3. Use True Resurrection.

Of course, before you try any of these you first need to defeat Xykon, find the black gem and counterspell the Soul Bind. Which is...doable.

[dsollen]

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Not familiar with the exact mechanics there, but I could see that being reversible, particularly since those two were the ones who figured out how to seal the rifts.

Rich is on record as saying he dislikes resurrection magic because it removes dramatic weight of death, and has gone out of his way to say that things like True Resurrection will never be options in his world. He also made sure to explicitly show us a reason why all of the Order of The Scribble that died would be extremely difficult or impossible to resurrect. I think it's safe to say that Rich is trying to give us a hint that he does not plan to summon some epic hero to mop up everything and demonstrate why that isn't an option. As such I'm going to go on record as saying it's *highly* unlikely we will see any of the order of the scribble that are dead being resurrected.

I won't entirely rule out our seeing Serini; as it turns out she has actually been in every panel of the OotS so far, it's just that as an epic rouge we don't have enough spot to see her. but even if we level our spot enough to finally see Serini somehow I bet she would be in some circumstance where she can't swoop in to defeat Xykon and deus ex machina a win for our heroes.

[Peelee]

it's just that as an epic rouge we don't have enough spot to see her.

A question for the ages: can one not see an epic rouge, or simply not notice an epic rouge? And does the DC for application affect it?

[Doug Lampert]

A question for the ages: can one not see an epic rouge, or simply not notice an epic rouge? And does the DC for application affect it?

Epic rouge looks like it's your natural skin color and simply smooths out any irregularities or flaws so your skin looks flawless and natural. Thus you never notice if it is present.

Unfortunately, application is a little known rogue only epic feat.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Rogue only? Not Bardic Lore?

[Doug Lampert]

Rogue only? Not Bardic Lore?

Bards use more obvious make-up. [Insert image of KISS.]

[TheNecrocomicon]

Durkon claims in the middle of strip #1205 to have no weapons, so assuming he's telling the truth, he apparently didn't keep his divinely empowered returning hammer from Firmament, or he handed it temporarily to Minrah.

[Squire Doodad]

Durkon claims in the middle of strip #1205 to have no weapons, so assuming he's telling the truth, he apparently didn't keep his divinely empowered returning hammer from Firmament, or he handed it temporarily to Minrah.

Presumably he handed it to Minrah, it's the final fight and even if he planned on RC agreeing with him, there's still Xykon to fight.

[TheNecrocomicon]

Presumably he handed it to Minrah, it's the final fight and even if he planned on RC agreeing with him, there's still Xykon to fight.

And she is both a trained fighter and a servant of Thor, so it should work at full potential in her hands, just as it does for Durkon.

[Peelee]

And she is both a trained fighter and a servant of Thor, so it should work at full potential in her hands, just as it does for Durkon.

If those are the requirements for the full potential of the hammer, which I doubt (and also which we have no proof of either way).

[TheNecrocomicon]

If those are the requirements for the full potential of the hammer, which I doubt (and also which we have no proof of either way).

Well, seeing as it's a martial weapon, proficiency in its use could have been gained either from a dwarven background, or the class levels or skills either Durkon or Minrah have.

And since the hammer is a weapon dedicated to (and presumably empowered by) Thor, then one devout cleric of Thor in good standing should be able to use it as readily (though maybe not as well) as another devout cleric of Thor in good standing.

[Squire Doodad]

Well, seeing as it's a martial weapon, proficiency in its use could have been gained either from a dwarven background, or the class levels or skills either Durkon or Minrah have.

And since the hammer is a weapon dedicated to (and presumably empowered by) Thor, then one devout cleric of Thor in good standing should be able to use it as readily (though maybe not as well) as another devout cleric of Thor in good standing.

Didn't we determine it to be a Hammer of Thunderbolts with some potential Thor-related enchantments, so the full potential is activated with the gloves and belt Durkon has?

[Peelee]

Didn't we determine it to be a Hammer of Thunderbolts with some potential Thor-related enchantments, so the full potential is activated with the gloves and belt Durkon has?

If by "determine", you mean "guess based on apparent similarities", then yes. Of course, I also determine that, so I ain't judging.

[TheNecrocomicon]

Didn't we determine it to be a Hammer of Thunderbolts with some potential Thor-related enchantments, so the full potential is activated with the gloves and belt Durkon has?

Sorry, having never heard of that before I didn't grasp the significance, not to mention how you determined him to be wearing a Belt of Giant Strength when nothing actually mentioned one. I just thought it was a plus-something warhammer with specific magical augmentations to cause lightning damage and allow throwing and returning.

[Rogar Demonblud]

The belt is kind of assumed, since Durkon also got a snazzy new pair of gloves with the hammer. And the Hammer of Thunderbolts itself is a reference to mythological Thor, so it makes sense that comics Thor hands it over to one of his priests.

[danielxcutter]

And even if she can’t use it to full potential, a hammer is still a hammer.

[Peelee]

And even if she can’t use it to full potential, a hammer is still a hammer.

But only Elan looks like Nale.

[danielxcutter]

But only Elan looks like Nale.

Hurhurhur. Very funny.

[Kakuro]

I looked over the main stat page and noticed that Haley is missing her adamantine dagger from when she fought Crystal

[knag]

I looked over the main stat page and noticed that Haley is missing her adamantine dagger from when she fought Crystal

There was some discussion that based on Bandana's comments in #988 about a "snazzy new dagger" that Haley had given it to her, and that may have caused the item to drop from her equipment list in this thread. However, the weapon in her scabbard appears to be the short sword she got from Ferdinand and Eartha, not the dagger that Haley got, based on the grip and hilt.

In any case Haley uses the dagger again in #1127, so we can conclude that she still has it now. I think I've pointed this out in this thread before, but her equipment wasn't updated.

[dancrilis]

Durkon Allotrope ThundershieldCleric of Thor 13 (required to cast Regenerate).

Spells: Mass Death Ward with backdoor

Should Durkon be considered level 15 as Mass Death Ward is an 8th level spell based on Libris Mortis (page 63), or does level 13 imply that he lost those levels via returning from death and so cannot cast it or is the assumption that the backdoor results in it being a lower level spell?

[hamishspence]

Should Durkon be considered level 15 as Mass Death Ward is an 8th level spell based on Libris Mortis (page 63), or does level 13 imply that he lost those levels via returning from death and so cannot cast it or is the assumption that the backdoor results in it being a lower level spell?

The Giant didn't know about the Libris Mortis one - so his version is level 7, not level 8:

For simplicity, I usually assume that all spells in the SRD are "common knowledge" and everything else is "obscure/non-existent" unless someone has researched it. That's because the bulk of the reading audience won't know about each and every spell in 3.5, but most of them have the Player's Handbook.

Plus, I didn't know Mass Death Ward was an actual spell until right this moment. I was merely extrapolating, I never checked any of the books for it. But it doesn't really affect the story either way, except for that I was pegging it at 7th level instead of 8th.

[dancrilis]

Fair enough - clearly searching has failed me (or I it).

Wonder it the bypass can be figured out via a spellcraft check.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Probably. And then fixing it would be another check, and removing the defect boosts the spell back up to the canon 8th.

Or you just go with the current version of the spell, because 7th is fine and the guy who knew the backdoor is currently a cloud of ash swirling about the desert.

[understatement]

Can Dorukan be listed as 23+ due to here, since Epic Spellcasting comes as a bonus feat? Or do casters automatically get a feat at 21?

[Jasdoif]

Can Dorukan be listed as 23+ due to here, since Epic Spellcasting comes as a bonus feat? Or do casters automatically get a feat at 21?

Twenty-one is a multiple of three, so everyone gets a feat then.

[hamishspence]

Everyone gains a feat at level 21, besides class feats:

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/basics.htm#feats

Feats
Every character gains one feat (which may be an epic or nonepic feat at the player’s choice) at every level divisible by three. These feats are in addition to any bonus feats granted in the class descriptions.

EDIT: Swordsaged.

[understatement]

Okay, gotcha. Thanks for the answer.