Need help creating a core grappler

[Enochi]

Hi I'm fairly new to the DnD world and am groping around trying to create my first character. I would like to create a grappling build but am insure if want I have is fesible or not. The DMs at my store prefer to stick to core but they are willing to allow me to be a Goliath and may allow some feats and classes from complete warrior. Here is the build I have so far.

Goliath:
+4 to Strength
+2 to Con
-2 to Dex

Effectively large size.

Level 1: Sorcerer
Enlarge Person, Power Attack

Level 2: Monk
Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed

Level 3: Monk
Combat Reflexes, Earth's Embrace, Evasion

Level 4: Monk
Still Mind

Level 5: Monk
Ki Strike

Level 6: Dragon Disciple
Natural Armour Increase +1
Weapon Focus (Grapple)

Level 7: Dragon Disciple
+ 2 Str, Claws and Bite

Level 8: Dragon Disciple
Breath Weapon

Level 9: Dragon Disciple
+ 2 Str, +2 Natural Armour, Crushing Hug

Grapple Bonuses
+4 Improved Grapple
+6 BAB
+8 Huge
+11 Str Bonus
+1 Weapon Focus Grapple
= +30 to Grapple Check

Damage from Grapple Check (2d8+22)+pin(1d12)

[shadowdemon_lord]

Weapon focus requires a BAB of +1, no taking that till third level in your current build. Going fighter/barbarian would give you a higher grapple check, but less damage output. I don't think you'll normaly feel the need for a higher bonus though, considering your heavy focus on grappling. You'll want to add Power Attack into that build at some point, more damage is always a good thing.

[Dode]

Well, since this isn't really core since it has Complete Warrior feats and Goliaths in it already, you might consider checking out the Duskblade (taking Arcane Disciple: Strength Domain to get access to Enlarge Person) and be able to get a full BAB caster that can wear light armor and cast touch spells when it makes its grapple. Duskblade/Barbarian Goliath would be... formidable.

[Enochi]

Made a few edits. Trying to limit Dragon, CW, and Core...not doing to good a job I suppose but I dont see other races or feats that would be as useful in core.

[MrNexx]

Might as well drop the Sorcerer level. Enlarge Person doesn't work on a Monstrous Humanoid, just Humanoids.

[Draz74]

Hmmm, are you aware that BAB is part of your grappling skill? Because your ECL 10 character with only +6 BAB doesn't seem the best.

Also, a nitpick: Crushing Hug requires Improved Grab, which is an ability usually only monsters (or Wild Shaped Druids) have. Anyway, it only adds to 1 grapple damage roll per turn, so it's not the best.

Are Psionics allowed? Try a Half-Giant Psychic Warrior with this build:
L1: Barbarian; Power Attack
L2: Psychic Warrior; Improved Unarmed Strike; Grip of Iron
L3: Psychic Warrior; Track, Improved Grapple; Expansion
L4: Psychic Warrior
L5: Psychic Warrior; Animal Affinity
L6: Slayer; Earth's Embrace
L7: Slayer
L8: Slayer
L9: Slayer; Weapon Focus (Grapple)

Assuming you started with 18 Str (which is what your build seemed to assume), by this level you can have your Strength up to:
18 +2 racial +2 boosts +4 rage +4 animal affinity = 30
(Note: this is without even having to pay for a Belt of Giant Strength or other item. Although in a few more levels, when you have enough money for a +6 Belt, you should get one; then just use Animal Affinity for stats other than Strength.)

A fully-augmented Expansion power (which is much more convenient to cast than Enlarge Person, plus it works even if you're not a Humanoid) will make you effectively Gargantuan, when combined with the Powerful Build racial feature.

Grapple Check (in ideal, fully-buffed conditions):
+8 BAB
+10 Str
+12 size
+6 Grip of Iron
+5 feats (Weapon Focus/Improved Grapple)
= +41

Damage: 3d6+10+pin(1d12). You'll be wearing spiked armor with the biggest spikes you can get the smith to make you.

If you like the Goliath better, you can do a Goliath instead of a Half-Giant. It's another +2 Strength. At early levels, you'll miss the Half-Giant's bonus 1 PP, but in later levels that won't be such a big deal.

Best part of this build? You'll have other psionic powers to make you more flexible. You liked the no-weapons approach that your other build had? No prob, learn Claws of the Beast at Level 4. And Metaphysical Claw at Level 6, yay for magic unarmed weaponry. If you're worried that your damage isn't high enough in a grapple still, learn Offensive Prescience. If you get into high levels and your opponents all slip away from you using Freedom of Movement, burn a feat on Epxanded Knowledge to learn Dispel Psionics so you can Dispel the bane of the grappler's existence.

[Enochi]

Hmm losing the Enlarge spell hurts allot. And no unfortunately Psionics arent allowed in this campaign. But if I find one that will allow me to use it then I will use that build. Sigh. Any other ideas?

[Temp]

Since your restrictions are "Core Only, but other very specific sources work too," it's hard to find a real solution for you.

Core only, I think the best grappler is a Druid who snags Enlarge Person somehow.

Non-core, Person_Man's posted a fairly solid build in a few threads recently. Basically Psychic Warrior/Warmind is your friend.

In the case of the build you have now, Monk doesn't really do you a whole lot of good beside providing the bonus feats (which Fighter does just as well with higher BA to boot). Fighter also allows you to snag Barbarian for a Strength boost. Also, if CC Barbarian variants are one of your available sources (no, I don't see anything backing this, but you haven't mentioned RoS either) the Spirit Bear Totem gives Improved Grab.

[Galdor Miriel]

I play a cleric of Kord, who is basically a grappler with spells. I have not even tried to optimise, but rather played for fun but he is formidible when he gets his hands on someone.

With the strength domain you get bulls strength and enlarge person at low levels, mighteous right and divine power/favor (forget which) gives you even more awesome grappling potential as you level up.

Sure my BAB goes down a bit, but I can get +10 to strength, and even more from the strength domain power for one round, big size and a kick ass attitude.

And as a cleric I still have all my cleric spells.

In the campaign I have also used a prestige class that was orignianlly published in Dragon, the mighty contender of kord, whereby you lose a caster level or two over the ten levels (please don't flame me) but you gain neat grappler abilities and even more strength.

Of course I am not saying there is anything wrong with your build, just pointing out some of the alternatives like the cool duskblade/arcane disciple idea....

Have fun

[Enochi]

Build I think might do a bit better

Goliath:
+4 to Strength
+2 to Con
-2 to Dex

Effectively large size.

Level 1: Barbarian - Alt Build Bear Totem
Improved Grapple, Improved Grab, Rage,

Level 2: Druid - Alt Build Shapshift
Predator form

Level 3: Druid - Alt Build Shapshift
Improved Unarmed, Woodland Stride

Level 4: Druid - Alt Build Shapshift
Trackless Step

Level 5: Druid - Alt Build Shapshift
Resist Nature's Lure, Mobility(Predator Form)

Level 6: Druid - Alt Build Shapshift
Aerial Form, Crushing Hug

Level 7: Druid - Alt Build Shapshift

Level 8: Druid - Alt Build Shapshift
Flyby Attack (Aerial form)

Level 9: Druid - Alt Build Shapshift
Ferocious Slayer Form, Earth's Embrace

Str Bonus
+ 4 racial
+ 8 Ferocious Slayer Form
+ 4 Huge size?
+ 18 Starting Str
+ 2 Lvl ups
+ 4 rage
= 40 Str

Grapple Bonuses
+4 Improved Grapple
+7 BAB
+8 Huge
+15 Str Bonus
= +32 to Grapple Check

Damage from Grapple Check (1d8+30)+pin(1d12)

[TheOOB]

If you can get your GM to let you have complete warrior, try a frenzied beserker bear warrior, and if you can get complete divine, try getting kords belt relic. I think I managed to push my grapple check up into the 60's-70's one time.

[Human Paragon 3]

Enochi's second build looks very solid. Might want to double check your numbers (I don't think ferocious slayer form is huge, for instance, and the powerful build ability doesn't stack up to Huge), but Bear Totem Barbarian + Shapeshift Druid is one of the best ways to get ridiculous STR and grapple modifiers. Even if you don't have access to the Complete Champion, the Bear Totem Barb on the SRD is very good. That variant also provides a +4 untyped bonus to grapple checks while raging, which boosts you considerably. Scorpion's Grasp is a good feat to gain the improved grab ability plus frills (it is in sandstorm).

Psychic Warrior is another great way to get grapple bonuses thanks to iron grip and expansion. You'll suffer a little due to medium BAB but not that much.

[Enochi]

I do believe that both Powerful build and shapeshift work together. Shapeshift says I keep all Supernatural and Extraordinary abilites and the form just and +1 to my size. Its not like wild shape where I turn into specific creature.

Powerful Build (Ex)
The physical stature of half-giants lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a half-giant is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the half-giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A half-giant is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A half-giant can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.

[cupkeyk]

Enochi, is your Bear Totem barbarian off UA? You don't get Improved Grapple until level two, nor do you ever get improved grab, you get an unnamed bonus to grapple checks at level five. These plus a few skill boosts in exchange for the speed boost and (improved) Uncanny Dodge.

[Enochi]

Bear Totem barbarian Im using is from Complete Champion.

[Enochi]

Well Im going to offers these 4 builds for the DM to chose from and we will see which one he allows for ecl 10.

A Half Giant Werebear Psychic Warrior:
L1: Barbarian-Alt Bear Totem - Improved Grab, Improved Natural Attack
L2: Psychic Warrior; Improved Unarmed Strike; Grip of Iron
L3: Psychic Warrior; Improved Grapple, Expansion, Eath's Embrace
L4: Psychic Warrior
L5: Psychic Warrior; Animal Affinity,
L6: Warshaper; Crushing Hug
L7: Warshaper; Morphic body

Assuming you started with 18 Str (which is what your build seemed to assume), by this level you can have your Strength up to:
18 +4 racial +16 Werebear +8 size +4 rage +1 level ups + 4 animal affinity + 4Morphic body = 59

Hybrid Form makes you large, Powerful build huge, and Expansion make you colassal

Grapple Check (in ideal, fully-buffed conditions):
+5 BAB
+24 Str
+16 size
+6 Grip of Iron
+5 feats (Improved Grapple, Weapon Focus)
= +56

Damage from Grapple Check (3d6+48)+pin(1d12)

Build 2
Goliath:
Level 1: Barbarian - Alt Build Bear Totem
Improved Grapple, Improved Grab, Rage,

Level 2: Druid - Alt Build Shapshift
Predator form

Level 3: Druid - Alt Build Shapshift
Improved Unarmed, Woodland Stride

Level 4: Druid - Alt Build Shapshift
Trackless Step

Level 5: Druid - Alt Build Shapshift
Resist Nature's Lure, Mobility(Predator Form)

Level 6: Druid - Alt Build Shapshift
Aerial Form, Crushing Hug

Level 7: Druid - Alt Build Shapshift

Level 8: Druid - Alt Build Shapshift
Flyby Attack (Aerial form)

Level 9: Druid - Alt Build Shapshift
Ferocious Slayer Form, Earth's Embrace

Str Bonus
+ 4 racial
+ 8 Ferocious Slayer Form
+ 4 Huge size
+ 18 Starting Str
+ 2 Lvl ups
+ 4 rage
= 40 Str

Grapple Bonuses
+4 Improved Grapple
+7 BAB
+8 Huge
+15 Str Bonus
= +34 to Grapple Check

Damage from Grapple Check (1d8+30)+pin(1d12)


Build Three pure Core
Half Orc

Level 1: Sorcerer
Enlarge Person, Weapon Focus Grapple

Level 2: Fighter
Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed

Level 3: Fighter
Improved Unarmed, Improved Natural Attack

Level 4: Fighter


Level 5: Fighter
Weapon Specilization (Graple)

Level 6: Dragon Disciple
Natural Armour Increase +1
Wepoc focus (Unarmed)

Level 7: Dragon Disciple
+ 2 Str, Claws and Bite

Level 8: Dragon Disciple
Breath Weapon

Level 9: Dragon Disciple
+ 2 Str, +2 Natural Armour,
Weapon Specilization (Unarmed)

Level 10: Barbarian
Rage

Str Bonus
+ 2 racial
+ 2 Englarge
+ 4 Dragon Diciple
+ 18 Starting Str
+ 2 Lvl ups
+ 4 rage
= 32 Str

Grapple Bonuses
+4 Improved Grapple
+8 BAB
+4 Large
+11 Str Bonus
+1 Weapon Focus (Grapple)
= +28 to Grapple Check

(1d8+11) Grapple damage