General Thoughts On Magic Items

[JNAProductions]

And how to dispense them. As a DM, I tend to be on the players' side-I'll err on the side of letting them do more than less.

When it comes to magic items, I feel like, in general, the order should be:

Utility/Fun Items
Bag of Tricks. Immovable Rod. Bag of Holding. Enveloping Pit. Eversmoking Bottle. Stuff that doesn't really have direct combat applications, except maybe running away, but inventive players can have a lot of fun with. This is the first priority for handing out magic items because they're fun, and the game is meant to be fun.

Defensive Items
Ring/Cloak of Protection. Stone of Good Luck. +X Armor or Shields. Potions of Resistance. Stuff that DOES have direct combat applications-namely, it makes you harder to put down. This helps avoid rocket-tag issues, by making PCs more durable WITHOUT upping lethality.

Offensive Items
+X Weapons. Flametongue. Frostbrand. Vorpal Sword. Vicious Weapon. Robe of The Archmagi. Staff of Power Stuff that has direct combat applications, to kill stuff dead faster or incapacitate them better. These items should be doled out LAST, because they (generally) increase lethality WITHOUT increasing durability, meaning you get closer to rocket tag-and at least to me, it's best if combat is decided sometime AFTER the initiative roll, rather than just on that.

The main exception would be weapons that count as magical for Fighters, Barbarians, Rogues, anyone who uses a weapon, pretty much. A weapon that counts as magical to bypass resistances should probably be handed out in early to middle Tier 2, though I'd try to make it ALSO have a utility effect. For example, a spear that can cast Light, or a maul that can cast Thaumaturgy.

These are not hard and fast rules-if there's a PC who built themselves to be a turtle, dropping a Frostbrand of their favored weapon wouldn't be out of line just to bring them up to relevancy, for instance. Likewise, if you aren't going to include any weapon-resistant foes, it doesn't really matter if the beatstick has a magic weapon or not. But, in general, this seems like a good way to manage item drops.

Thoughts, advice, critique?

[trtl]

I make up stupid magic items all the time and hand them out like candy. It creates a game that isn't for everyone, but it really allows for creative problem solving.

Some of them are just ridiculous, others don't mechanically make you more powerful, but can still help in combat: eg. a dagger that returns to it's sheath at the beginning of your turn if it's not in your hand or already in the sheath.

I'd have to disagree about defensive spell over offensive spells. Maybe it's just me but after level 6 or so, combat tend to start stretching out and getting longer and longer, giving out items that make the fights more swingy helps counteract that.

Of course, I suppose if you like longer combats then you'd see it the other way around.

[Pex]

My general attitude for 5E is that PCs are supposed to have magic items just like they were in all previous editions. No specific magic item. No specific amount, but they have them. Bounded Accuracy and the general lower power nature of 5E compared to previous editions does not change that. It is absolutely wonderful PCs don't need to have them to be able to do stuff effectively. They still get them, including permanent magic items that help in combat. 5E does not forbid them. The game does not fall apart into an playable unplayable mess when PCs have them. They are part of the game.

[Addaran]

My biggest preference is fun/utility items. Or anything that lets you cast spells, especially for non-caster. I don't do magic IRL but i'd love to have powers. So i think a mundane character would feel the same.

My general attitude for 5E is that PCs are supposed to have magic items just like they were in all previous editions. No specific magic item. No specific amount, but they have them. Bounded Accuracy and the general lower power nature of 5E compared to previous editions does not change that. It is absolutely wonderful PCs don't need to have them to be able to do stuff effectively. They still get them, including permanent magic items that help in combat. 5E does not forbid them. The game does not fall apart into an playable mess when PCs have them. They are part of the game.

What i love is that it's not really factored into the CR. A team of characters without magic items at lvl 10 can beat stuff lvl 10 are supposed to beat. In 3.5ed, a lvl 10 without magic items have numbers way below what it should have. (for to-hit, AC or class-related stats) It lets all type of game to work, without additional work from the DM.

Personally, i like magic items in the game. Just not to the extend that the "strength" fighter puts 8 in it cause he knows he'll get a belt of giant strength.

[JNAProductions]

My biggest preference is fun/utility items. Or anything that lets you cast spells, especially for non-caster. I don't do magic IRL but i'd love to have powers. So i think a mundane character would feel the same.

What i love is that it's not really factored into the CR. A team of characters without magic items at lvl 10 can beat stuff lvl 10 are supposed to beat. In 3.5ed, a lvl 10 without magic items have numbers way below what it should have. (for to-hit, AC or class-related stats) It lets all type of game to work, without additional work from the DM.

Personally, i like magic items in the game. Just not to the extend that the "strength" fighter puts 8 in it cause he knows he'll get a belt of giant strength.

Yeah, I definitely think magic items are fun, and therefore should be included.

Although the bolded bit-I HATE that. I won't deny that to a player if I'm running an optimized, pick your favorite items kinda game, but if a player builds a level two PC with an 8 Strength with the expectation they'll be getting a "Set Strength to X" item later, they will be SORELY disappointed. One of the things that you and I, Addaran, both like is that if you take Gruk the Mighty, 20th level Barbarian with his twin axes Carnage and Destruction, and Mort the Dependable, a 1st level Barbarian with basic gear and switch their gear... Gruk the Mighty's gonna paste the walls with Mort. And while, if Gruk had an 8 Strength and a Belt of Giant Strength, he'd still WIN, it wouldn't be quite as brutal.

[Pex]

Personally, i like magic items in the game. Just not to the extend that the "strength" fighter puts 8 in it cause he knows he'll get a belt of giant strength.

That I understand. By the time an item like that is in the game it is highly likely a warrior will have 18 or 20 ST anyway the belt doesn't really do anything. The belt likely goes to the cleric who has been the secondary tank. If the warrior gets the high giant strength belts, ST 23, ST 25, etc., it's high level play near the end of the campaign. The warrior has been at 20 ST for awhile now. It's fine to have that boost then.

Particular magic items are more potent than others. It's not a bother to me if they don't exist in a particular campaign. It's just the general attitude of PCs shouldn't have any magic items, but if you give out magic items only consumables, nothing permanent and no way should they help in combat. It was prevalent early in 5E and advocated for in the Forum. It's died down a lot since then, but it still crops up every once in a while. I know, BadWrongFun syndrome, but in this case yeah I'll plead guilty in accusing BadWrongFun and double down on it. Someone doesn't want magic items in his game, fine, but do not say that's the way 5E was meant to be played. That's not true.

I'm not saying that's what the OP said. Of course he didn't. I'm just saying my own personal opinion of the matter.

[sithlordnergal]

I personally like handing out magic items, and I've never really been super concerned about "balance" the way fellow DMs seem to be concerned about on the forum. That said, I do enjoy handing out utility items more then powerful weapons. Utility items always bring out more creativity. That said, I'm certainly not against powerful weapons. How could I be? I homebrewed a +2 spear that has 7 charges, and you can spend 1 to 4 charges to add 1-4d8 poison damage that treats poison immunity as poison resistance for an entire minute. Not a single strike, but an entire minute.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Personally, I see more offensive and effective combat use for the item you mentioned as utility/fun items.

I use a random table and just ignore items that are bad for the story.
It is funny when the party get legendary items they can't use, they go to a quest to get an exchange or payment for it.

[Zetakya]

If there are Magic Items I prefer them to have a story to them, a history and a meaningful existence within the Gameworld.

Your character doesn't have a flame tongue weapon. They have the sword Ignalion, which was forged from the embers of a fallen star and wielded in ages past by the Princes of the High House in battle against the ancient for.

Magic items should not just be stat blocs. They should be parts of the Story.

[nickl_2000]

You didn't mention on class of magical items in your list. What about consumables?

[JNAProductions]

Personally, I see more offensive and effective combat use for the item you mentioned as utility/fun items.

I use a random table and just ignore items that are bad for the story.
It is funny when the party get legendary items they can't use, they go to a quest to get an exchange or payment for it.

I'm aware they can have combat usages, but it requires more ingenuity than just marking +1 to your stats. Which feels better to me than just base numbers going up.

If there are Magic Items I prefer them to have a story to them, a history and a meaningful existence within the Gameworld.

Your character doesn't have a flame tongue weapon. They have the sword Ignalion, which was forged from the embers of a fallen star and wielded in ages past by the Princes of the High House in battle against the ancient for.

Magic items should not just be stat blocs. They should be parts of the Story.

Agreed-but I typically DM by the seat of my pants, so it's not something I always have time for.

You didn't mention on class of magical items in your list. What about consumables?

Subsets of the above. One can be more free with handing out consumables, since they are limited in nature, but the're gonna fall under Utility, Defense, or Offense.

And, quick note-I'm aware the categories are not hard and fast. A Potion of Flight or similar item, for instance, could be Utility (cross the chasm safely), Defense (avoid the melee brutes), or Offense (assail a flying enemy in melee). Part of why the rules aren't really rules, just guidelines.

[Snails]

Utility/Fun Items
Bag of Tricks. Immovable Rod. Bag of Holding. Enveloping Pit. Eversmoking Bottle. Stuff that doesn't really have direct combat applications, except maybe running away, but inventive players can have a lot of fun with. This is the first priority for handing out magic items because they're fun, and the game is meant to be fun.

Defensive Items
Ring/Cloak of Protection. Stone of Good Luck. +X Armor or Shields. Potions of Resistance. Stuff that DOES have direct combat applications-namely, it makes you harder to put down. This helps avoid rocket-tag issues, by making PCs more durable WITHOUT upping lethality.

I generally agree with your sentiments. I would highlight there is an intermediate kind of item that is worth emphasizing, which as "escape" or "slow it down" items, things with obvious combat value but do not directly boost your martial effectiveness, such as: Fog, Spider Climb, Levitate, etc.

[Lyracian]

Your character doesn't have a flame tongue weapon. They have the sword Ignalion, which was forged from the embers of a fallen star and wielded in ages past by the Princes of the High House in battle against the ancient for.
Magic items should not just be stat blocs. They should be parts of the Story.

I do like using the tables on page 142-143 of the DMG to make items stand out. In one game the party buried there only magic sword because it had the repulsive quirk.

That said stuff like Bags of Holding and Rings of Protection I like to have available to characters along with other fun utility items. Depending on the campaign NPC Dwarves can provide mithral or +1 Plate armour and if they players kill a Dragon its hide can be made into Dragon Scale Mail or Studded Leather +1.

[Tanarii]

Thoughts, advice, critique?

I always used the tables if I created my own content, or the module otherwise. I never tailored to the PCs.

As a player, I'd be upset if I found the DM was doing that, just as I would with a DM tailoring encounters or using illusionism or the like, or fudging dice. Realistically there may not be much of a difference to the game play experience between writing an encounter to the party level and carefully tailoring one to highlight specific player abilities, but it destroys trust in the DM when (not if) they find out the DM is weighting the odds. Same goes for handing out magic items specific to your PAM build or warlock whatever.

Now picking 'fun' items and not caring if the party finds them, wants them, or if specific party members use them ... that sounds like it'll improve the game. Even if the players realize that's what you're doing.

[Bobthewizard]

I like your order - 1. Utility/Fun 2. Defensive 3. Offensive

Especially when playing with highly optimized characters. Optimization tends to make glass cannons since damage and offense are easier to optimize than defense. If the characters do a lot of damage, the DM ups the challenge to keep it interesting, but their HP don't always keep up.

My exception to the above is if a newer player is much less optimized than the rest of the party. Then I'll try to get them a good offensive magic item to help them contribute more equally.

[Daphne]

For offensive items, I have a preference of giving stuff like Frost Brand and Flame Tongue which doesn't give a bonus to accuracy.

[MrStabby]

I think I agree broadly with the sentiment and the order but with a lot of reservations.

Utility is great. Utility is fun and provides ways to solve problems. Utility items are also a great way to devalue choices made at character creation. A decanter of endless water that let's you fill a pit in which you are stuck to let you float out is great, but kind of sucks if you have someone great at climbing in the party and it was their chance to shine and to get the party out of a hole. Loads of utility items are good and fun but I always exclude things that might step on a characters toes in terms of abilities they have invested in - so mainly the ritual caster feat and skills/tool proficiencies.

I also think it is important to delay magic weapons. A lot of iconic enemies have resistance to non magic weapons and to reduce this key ability to a mere ribbon is to sell that monster short. Also, just as utility items can take away what is special about some characters, magic weapons can do the same. Monks are cool with their magic weapon hands, warlock magic weapons are cool, casters of the spell "magic weapon" are nifty. Let's help these players feel special by giving them the space to get value out of this ability.

I also prefer defensive items. I find that "nova" characters can suck a lot of fun out of the game for some players who dont get to do their thing (or their thing is less relevant) as the encounter is pretty much decided before they get going. Defensive items let you crank up the difficulty whilst giving that temporal space for everyone to be able to shine.

Finally, let's make more items homebrew. It makes it more interesting uncovering loot. You can create really cool and thematic items but also ones appropriate to the party to help make sure everyone contributes.

[chainer1216]

I also think it is important to delay magic weapons. A lot of iconic enemies have resistance to non magic weapons and to reduce this key ability to a mere ribbon is to sell that monster short. Also, just as utility items can take away what is special about some characters, magic weapons can do the same. Monks are cool with their magic weapon hands, warlock magic weapons are cool, casters of the spell "magic weapon" are nifty. Let's help these players feel special by giving them the space to get value out of this ability.

I cannot disagree with this more, martials are already greatly limited with how they can effect the world, why hamper them even more? Do you really think wizards need more time to shine?

[Tanarii]

I cannot disagree with this more, martials are already greatly limited with how they can effect the world, why hamper them even more? Do you really think wizards need more time to shine?

IIRC the DMG recommended guidelines (Hoards) make it low probability to find a single magic weapon until around level 7. Even by the end of Tier 2 you still might have found only 2 total for the party.

[MrStabby]

I cannot disagree with this more, martials are already greatly limited with how they can effect the world, why hamper them even more? Do you really think wizards need more time to shine?

I find that the relative power of classes changes depending on level. Whilst this does hurt martials more, it tends to do so at a point in time when they are strong relative to casters so it closes a gap rather than opening it.

Furthermore, a lot of the creatures that are resistant to non magic weapon damage are also magic resistant - things like fiends.

Finally, ability to contribute in an encounter is not about being able to do everything, it is about being able to do something. Have encounters with a fiend and a devil worshiping cult for example - one thing that resists damage and others that dont. You get the full feel for the power of the fiend without stopping players contributing. No DM decision happens in a vacuum.

[chainer1216]

IIRC the DMG recommended guidelines (Hoards) make it low probability to find a single magic weapon until around level 7. Even by the end of Tier 2 you still might have found only 2 total for the party.

Yes, I know that, they know that, we all know that, they are saying it should be pushed back to let wizards feel cool, as if people who want to use their concentration slot on their friendly meat shield actually exist, and I'm saying it should be pushed forward because martial characters are punished enough for not playing magic users that they shouldn't have to sit through encounters they can't meaningfully contribute to without either mid-high levels of optimization or on the spot homebrew hoping the DM will be cool with shenanigans.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

As a player I never touch magic items, most are rather meh. In AL, when I did play, I would get rid of them in... Unique ways.

I really appreciate the anti-christmas tree design of 5e.

[MrStabby]

Yes, I know that, they know that, we all know that, they are saying it should be pushed back to let wizards feel cool, as if people who want to use their concentration slot on their friendly meat shield actually exist, and I'm saying it should be pushed forward because martial characters are punished enough for not playing magic users that they shouldn't have to sit through encounters they can't meaningfully contribute to without either mid-high levels of optimization or on the spot homebrew hoping the DM will be cool with shenanigans.

Just because one enemy in a fight resists their damage doesn't mean they cant meaningfully contribute. There is also a difference between one enemy in one fight and a whole campaign based round enemies they have difficulty hurting.

[Aussiehams]

I always used the tables if I created my own content, or the module otherwise. I never tailored to the PCs.

As a player, I'd be upset if I found the DM was doing that, just as I would with a DM tailoring encounters or using illusionism or the like, or fudging dice. Realistically there may not be much of a difference to the game play experience between writing an encounter to the party level and carefully tailoring one to highlight specific player abilities, but it destroys trust in the DM when (not if) they find out the DM is weighting the odds. Same goes for handing out magic items specific to your PAM build or warlock whatever.

Now picking 'fun' items and not caring if the party finds them, wants them, or if specific party members use them ... that sounds like it'll improve the game. Even if the players realize that's what you're doing.

I can't disagree more. While I like that process in theory, and agree it makes better world building, I hate the feeling of disappointment when you find a great item that no one can use, or if they do it invalidates a build.
Completely random utility items are great, but I feel that by mid tier 2 every PC should have a magic weapon of a type that suits their build.

[Aussiehams]

Yes, I know that, they know that, we all know that, they are saying it should be pushed back to let wizards feel cool, as if people who want to use their concentration slot on their friendly meat shield actually exist, and I'm saying it should be pushed forward because martial characters are punished enough for not playing magic users that they shouldn't have to sit through encounters they can't meaningfully contribute to without either mid-high levels of optimization or on the spot homebrew hoping the DM will be cool with shenanigans.

I find when to start with magic weapons can depend on party make up. If you have a forge cleric, devotion paladin, artificer etc. Letting them use their class abilities because no one has found a magic weapon can make them feel a bit happier about their build choice.

[Zetakya]

Magic Polearms are a lot rarer than Magic Swords in any reasonable context.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Magic Polearms are a lot rarer than Magic Swords in any reasonable context.

I have no clue why anyone would assume this.

[EggKookoo]

For my tier 1 PCs, I like magic items that have quirky features that don't apply much of a combat advantage, if any at all. I've had a few...

A magic cigar that lights up and snuffs itself out on command. It can be used as a spell focus.

A ring, which the owner knows the location of when not worn (direction, distance). Once per short/long rest, the owner can summon the ring to themselves.

I have an NPC coming up that will have a cold sword. The blade looks like ice and gives off vapor when drawn. It just deals cold damage instead of slashing (I think it'll be a longsword, not 100% sure yet). I suppose this has the advantage of being a magical weapon for the purposes of damage resistance, but that's not a game breaker. I'm not even sure the PCs will get the sword as the NPC isn't inherently antagonistic, but it could come to a fight depending on what happens. In general, I like the idea of a "normal" weapon that just does some different type of damage. A whip that does lightning damage, or a hammer that deals thunder damage. Not in addition to what that type of weapon would case, but instead of. It gives the weapon a magical flair without really changing its power level.

[Tanarii]

Completely random utility items are great, but I feel that by mid tier 2 every PC should have a magic weapon of a type that suits their build.

whelp, the designers don't agree with you, if you go by the tables.

But exactly what magic weapon to give out is often DMs choice, even by the tables. There's no table to roll on for if it's a light hammer vs a halberd, if it's any weapon, for example.