Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

[dps]

Who the h*ck are these two, again? I vaguely remember something about a wedding and Marten's dad.

Someone ought to tell Jeph that "remember these two" wouldn't even be a question if he'd actually write arcs about the characters his readers care about instead of arcs focused on new characters that large parts of the audience either simply doesn't care about or actively dislikes. Though it would also help if his drawing style hadn't devolved to a point that the readers have to have a discussion just to figure out exactly which characters are in a given panel. It's easier to tell the characters apart in OotH--a stick figure comic-- than it is much of the time in QC.

[Eldan]

Oh, that's easy. That's Emily and Raven, they are getting married.

[VoxRationis]

You know, a potluck wedding makes much more sense than the present paradigm, where the couple spends the worth of a college education on catering and the guests are left trying to buy household goods for a couple that has already built a household (since people rarely marry before living independently and then together).

[dps]

You know, a potluck wedding makes much more sense than the present paradigm, where the couple spends the worth of a college education on catering and the guests are left trying to buy household goods for a couple that has already built a household (since people rarely marry before living independently and then together).

The problem with any potluck meal is addressed in the comic. You end up getting multiple versions of the same 2 or 3 easy-to-make dishes.

[Wildstag]

Shere the couple spends the worth of a college education on catering and the guests are left trying to buy household goods for a couple that has already built a household (since people rarely marry before living independently and then together).

I feel like that only applies for people that try to have large receptions. Of the last three weddings I attended, two were only about 50 people in size and the catering light. I know for a fact one of those did not spend more than 10k on the reception, and the biggest expense for their wedding was the photographer and the wedding venue.

Receptions get cheap when you use public spaces (county/city owned buildings) and cater from cheaper companies.

[Kish]

Someone ought to tell Jeph that "remember these two" wouldn't even be a question

It's not a question now. It's just sniping. Phrased in a way that was sort of funny the first time, which was a long time ago now.

[Delicious Taffy]

It's not a question now. It's just sniping. Phrased in a way that was sort of funny the first time, which was a long time ago now.

Well, it's a good thing you remember every single character, but some of us forget sometimes.

[Max_Killjoy]

Well, it's a good thing you remember every single character, but some of us forget sometimes.

Kish may have meant Jeph's comment below the comic.

[Kish]

No, I meant Delicious Taffy. Who...actually entered this thread with the same "I've forgotten Dora" joke, and has said nothing in it ever that wasn't a variation on that, so, yeah.

[dps]

No, I meant Delicious Taffy. Who...actually entered this thread with the same "I've forgotten Dora" joke, so, yeah.

Then why did you post your comment as a reply to me instead of Delicious Taffy?

[Kish]

Then why did you post your comment as a reply to me instead of Delicious Taffy?

Because I replied to what you said*. Feel free to address my reply, or not.

I would also point out that, since you brought up what I'm guessing was supposed to be OotS for Order of the Stick, that that gets** the same, "Huh, who are these strange new characters?" humor whenever there's a cut to Xykon and Redcloak, or the Linear Guild, after being away from them for a while. There are legitimate criticisms to be made of Jeph's shifting art--and indeed Rich Burlew has said something on the subject. But linking it to pure sniping does nothing but obscure such criticism.

*Also there's literally nothing to address in Delicious Taffy's posts; they still haven't let go of the joke.

**Should probably say "got," since the Linear Guild is now defunct.

[Mordokai]

Someone ought to tell Jeph that "remember these two" wouldn't even be a question if he'd actually write arcs about the characters his readers care about instead of arcs focused on new characters that large parts of the audience either simply doesn't care about or actively dislikes. Though it would also help if his drawing style hadn't devolved to a point that the readers have to have a discussion just to figure out exactly which characters are in a given panel. It's easier to tell the characters apart in OotH--a stick figure comic-- than it is much of the time in QC.

I want to preface my post by saying that nothing I will write is meant in a derogatory or sarcastic way.

With that in mind... you sound kind of angry. Or maybe that's because I'm projecting my own feelings into yours. We seem to be sharing a sentiment, you just have way better way with words than I do.

The post comic comment today just seems... facetious, I guess? I know Jeph knows most of us remember Thai and Dora, so... why do that? Is it just a big middle finger to the remainder of his base? Playing the, "Look at me, I'm so witty" card?

Something altogether different?

I was actually happy to see Dora. And maybe this says more about me than it does about Jeph, but that last comment kinda ruined it.

Or is this just a very blatant way of saying, "**** you, we've moved past these people, you're almost never going to see them again"?

Am I slightly drunk right now? Possibly. Might I be on to something anyway?

You be the judge.

[Maryring]

The problem with any potluck meal is addressed in the comic. You end up getting multiple versions of the same 2 or 3 easy-to-make dishes.

Just make an order with the potluck invite.

"Aunt, you make wonderful chocolate mousse, can you bring that? Uncle. You're in charge of drinks. Grandma, potato salad, and you know that delicious radish salad? Think you could do that?"

Most people are happy to help out, and if you let them know what you need/expect from them, you honestly end up making it a lot easier for them to be helpful, because they don't have to fumble blindly for something they think you might like.

It's worked quite well for my family for all sorts of major celebrations.

[Kish]

I'm going to predict that this will narrowly avoid a blowup and become, instead, a discussion of the difference in Tai and Dora's social lives.

[Max_Killjoy]

I'm going to predict that this will narrowly avoid a blowup and become, instead, a discussion of the difference in Tai and Dora's social lives.

Sheesh, I'd think that Marten and Claire at minimum would be on Tai's list.

[Delicious Taffy]

No, I meant Delicious Taffy. Who...actually entered this thread with the same "I've forgotten Dora" joke, and has said nothing in it ever that wasn't a variation on that, so, yeah.

Sorry my posts aren't varied enough for Your Highness, I guess? You were free to just ignore my unfunny, tired, worthless """joke""" if you felt like it, but for "some reason", you just Had To Say Something About It.

[mythmonster2]

I figure that she's thinking that Marten, Faye, and that whole circle would be included in "whoever Dora wants to invite".

[VoxRationis]

Just make an order with the potluck invite.

"Aunt, you make wonderful chocolate mousse, can you bring that? Uncle. You're in charge of drinks. Grandma, potato salad, and you know that delicious radish salad? Think you could do that?"

Most people are happy to help out, and if you let them know what you need/expect from them, you honestly end up making it a lot easier for them to be helpful, because they don't have to fumble blindly for something they think you might like.

It's worked quite well for my family for all sorts of major celebrations.

Thank you for writing my response for me! It's not actually that difficult to organize a potluck (you can, as Maryring says, ask for specifics, or you can use a sign-up sheet like a Google doc, structured to have slots for different sorts of dishes in appropriate ratios), and while some people will try to skate by on something they can throw together easily or pick up at Safeway on the way there, a lot of people will take pride in what they bring and go above and beyond what's expected of them.

Sheesh, I'd think that Marten and Claire at minimum would be on Tai's list.

Presumably she knew they would be on Dora's list and didn't bother.

[dps]

Because I replied to what you said*. Feel free to address my reply, or not.

Well, I'm not sure exactly how to address your reply-- I'm kinda confused at this point. But here goes.

First, I wasn't aware that Delicious Taffy had been posting basically the same thing repeatedly through the thread. I thought the DT post I replied to was reference to the comment Jeph posted under the comic ("Remember these two?"). And yeah, I suppose what I posted is sort of a snipe at Jeph, but while I was being somewhat flippant about it, I am genuinely unhappy about the heavy focus that QC had placed on a lot of newer characters that I find uninteresting or worse. And yes, I'm aware that this is hardly a new complaint, but that doesn't make it any less sincere on my part.

I'm not sure I'd say that I'm angry about it--after all, neither Jeph not any other creative talent has any obligation to write what I want to see them write, but eventually, if he doesn't return to characters and storylines I care about, he'll lose me as a reader. I don't want to drop QC from the list of webcomics I read, but I'm not going to keep reading it forever it it deals less and less with the characters that I like and care about, and deals more and more with characters that I either dislike or simply find completely uninteresting.

Also, as Mordokai suggested, I did sort of take Jeph's comment as a middle finger to those of us who aren't as enamored with his newer characters as he thinks we should be.

[georgie_leech]

Also, as Mordokai suggested, I did sort of take Jeph's comment as a middle finger to those of us who aren't as enamored with his newer characters as he thinks we should be.

See, I read it as more him poking fun at his own tendency to get distracted with newer characters all the time.

[Agi Hammerthief]

See, I read it as more him poking fun at his own tendency to get distracted with newer characters all the time.

Three word Rorschach test.

[Wraith]

Called it! She's an only child, and who else is she going to invite? The Professor who deals her weed? The girl that she set Marten up with for a one-night stand?

I kinda liked Bob though; no wedding is complete without a story about Russian mobsters in a strip club.

[Traab]

Dora, do NOT get upset. This is a SAD THING here, not an attack on your precious marriage. She literally doesnt have anyone but her parents in her life that she wants to see at the wedding besides you.

[Kish]

Well, I'm not sure exactly how to address your reply-- I'm kinda confused at this point. But here goes.

First, I wasn't aware that Delicious Taffy had been posting basically the same thing repeatedly through the thread. I thought the DT post I replied to was reference to the comment Jeph posted under the comic ("Remember these two?"). And yeah, I suppose what I posted is sort of a snipe at Jeph, but while I was being somewhat flippant about it, I am genuinely unhappy about the heavy focus that QC had placed on a lot of newer characters that I find uninteresting or worse. And yes, I'm aware that this is hardly a new complaint, but that doesn't make it any less sincere on my part.

I'm not sure I'd say that I'm angry about it--after all, neither Jeph not any other creative talent has any obligation to write what I want to see them write, but eventually, if he doesn't return to characters and storylines I care about, he'll lose me as a reader. I don't want to drop QC from the list of webcomics I read, but I'm not going to keep reading it forever it it deals less and less with the characters that I like and care about, and deals more and more with characters that I either dislike or simply find completely uninteresting.

Also, as Mordokai suggested, I did sort of take Jeph's comment as a middle finger to those of us who aren't as enamored with his newer characters as he thinks we should be.

I can relate to wanting to see Dora et al more. At the same time, I can understand why Jeph isn't showing them more. The comic's always been essentially a soap opera without the violent parts, meaning that storylines centered on specific characters have two forms: 1) showing the audience more about these characters, and 2) relationship drama, with occasional money concerns. Of the couples that have original main characters in them (Faye and Bubbles, Marten and Claire, Dora and Tai), Jeph has no more character information he wants to reveal, and Dora and Tai have the least money concerns. (They may be about to have relationship drama, but like Traab, I hope they don't.)

Essentially, Dora and Tai, assuming they don't break up over the next few strips*, are living happily ever after, and there's not a lot of storyline in that.

*And if they do, I expect a lot of complaining about retreading what happened with Marten, which would be accurate but not valid as the point of such an event would be to show that Dora isn't as over her control issues as she thought she was. Still hope Jeph chooses to go the other way and have a calm discussion where this situation with Marten would have been an impending blowup.

[Vinyadan]

I wonder why it's so hard, for me but apparently for others, too, to get into these new characters shoes. I don't mean liking them, I mean identifying with them. There must be some narrative reason for this.

To tell the truth, however, for me it isn't just with the new characters. So I think it has more to do with something having changed in how the comic is written. Maybe it's much mulling and little drama, maybe it's how fragmented everything has become, compared to back when there really was a social group built around Coffee of Doom and Marten.

[Wraith]

I wonder why it's so hard, for me but apparently for others, too, to get into these new characters shoes. I don't mean liking them, I mean identifying with them. There must be some narrative reason for this.

My view of this is that a lot of the newer characters have been introduced to serve exactly one purpose - they're a lot more one-dimensional, and not even just because they haven't been in the comic as long in order to be explored. It's as though they're dropped into the comic to do one thing, and then kind of stick around without much reason to do so, so they get left out for long periods or otherwise crammed into situations no matter how banal just to have them do SOMETHING.

Take Marten. He came to town from California following a girlfriend and the relationship failed, he likes indie music, be plays guitar, his mom was a dominatrix, his dad owns a nightclub, his family are independently wealthy but he worked a dead-end office job until he improved his outlook to apply elsewhere, he's got lots of friends across a broad spectrum of personalities.... All of these are little factoids and flavours that don't have a direct impact on his role in the comic, which is to be the sort of laid-back guy who is generally nice and gets swept up in other peoples' drama as a naive but level head.

Meanwhile, Brun is "the autistic one". She has unusual quirks because she's autistic. She hangs out with Renee because Renee looks after her because she's autistic. She likes clocks because they appeal to the order and routine that she needs because... well, you get the point.

I'm not saying that Brun has absolutely nothing else about her, but that seems to be the main and central core of her character and there's very little else besides, no matter how accurately her condition gets portrayed.
Other characters kind of appeared to follow suit. Yay Newfriend took 2 years to get a name because they were just the "solve Bubbles' problem" character and then came back for some only vaguely defined reason; Tilly was non-binary and possibly somewhat OCD before their role was done and they were shipped out; Willow Dragonfang was here just long enough to point a gun at the plot and force it to take a tentative step forward, no matter how inorganic the conversation was.

Ultimately, I think it's clear that Jeph throws in new characters on a whim and then doesn't know what to do with them next. Some cases are better than others - Clinton has for many people been saved from the scrappy heap but there's still work to do - but others are a long way off.

[Thufir]

It's not a question now. It's just sniping. Phrased in a way that was sort of funny the first time, which was a long time ago now.

Thank you for saying what I've been thinking for a while.

The post comic comment today just seems... facetious, I guess?

It does seem facetious, yes. That you somehow find this offensive is bewildering to me and definitely says more about you than it does about Jeph, imo.

And yeah, I suppose what I posted is sort of a snipe at Jeph, but while I was being somewhat flippant about it,

FYI, at least from my perspective, it didn't read as flippant at all. I read it as bitter and entitled, though I'll take you at your word that at least the second half of that was not your intent.

[Mechalich]

I wonder why it's so hard, for me but apparently for others, too, to get into these new characters shoes. I don't mean liking them, I mean identifying with them. There must be some narrative reason for this.

To tell the truth, however, for me it isn't just with the new characters. So I think it has more to do with something having changed in how the comic is written. Maybe it's much mulling and little drama, maybe it's how fragmented everything has become, compared to back when there really was a social group built around Coffee of Doom and Marten.

Fragmentation is a big problem, certainly.

The cast page list 18 humans and 12 AIs. Even accounting that some of those characters (like Veronica Reed and Station) appear rarely, that's around 25 major characters. Jeph publishes ~250 strips per year, and around 2.5 characters have any involvement with any given strip. Distributed randomly, each character would only be in around 25 strips per year. Basically, they get one chunk of story apiece each year. That's not a lot, and character appearances may be separated by multiple months. It absolutely makes things hard to follow and it stretches certain stories out over immense stretches of real time. For example, Tai proposed to Dora in comic #3979, which was back in 2019.

[dps]

FYI, at least from my perspective, it didn't read as flippant at all. I read it as bitter and entitled, though I'll take you at your word that at least the second half of that was not your intent.

I don't think I'm entitled. Ad I started in an earlier post, writers have zero obligation to write their material in a manner that appeals to me. Am I disappointed that a work I used to love has gone a a direction I don't care a great deal for? Absolutely, but I don't think that makes me entitled.

As for being bitter, I have a lot more bad things going on in my life to be bitter about than the decline of a webcomic.

[runeghost]

I want to preface my post by saying that nothing I will write is meant in a derogatory or sarcastic way.

With that in mind... you sound kind of angry. Or maybe that's because I'm projecting my own feelings into yours. We seem to be sharing a sentiment, you just have way better way with words than I do.

The post comic comment today just seems... facetious, I guess? I know Jeph knows most of us remember Thai and Dora, so... why do that? Is it just a big middle finger to the remainder of his base? Playing the, "Look at me, I'm so witty" card?

Something altogether different?

I was actually happy to see Dora. And maybe this says more about me than it does about Jeph, but that last comment kinda ruined it.

Or is this just a very blatant way of saying, "**** you, we've moved past these people, you're almost never going to see them again"?

Am I slightly drunk right now? Possibly. Might I be on to something anyway?

You be the judge.

While I have no special knowledge of the Jeph's intent, his "Remember these two?" came off to me as self-deprecating. He's self-aware enough to know that what he's writing and drawing is often not his 'main cast' and that certainly some readers (and perhaps Jeph himself) would like more of them, but he's got to follow his muse and where the story takes him, and perhaps he doesn't have as much control over that as he might like or as his readers may imagine. (I have ADHD, so the idea that there's a disconnect between what the author might wish to write and what they actually end up writing makes sense to me.)