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Thread: A Better Name for DUELING?
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2020-05-09, 02:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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A Better Name for DUELING?
Google "dueling 5e," and the problem becomes obvious: when people hear the name Dueling, they think of a fencer with a rapier and an empty off-hand. "Can I use Dueling with a shield?" and "Can I use Dueling when throwing a weapon?" would not be such recurrent confusions if we gave it a better name (nb: the answer to both is "yes," confirmed by Crawford).
I can empathize with the game designers, though, because I can't come up with a better name myself.
To fit the writing style, the name needs to be a noun, and needs to reasonably fit into the phrase, "X (Fighting) Style." Archery is a good example: it's a noun, and "Archery Fighting Style" is coherent. As for "Great Weapon Fighting Fighting Style" or "Two Weapon Fighting Fighting Style," well, ok, we can drop the redundant "Fighting" verbiage and we're good to go.
Hive mind, what say you?
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2020-05-09, 02:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-05-09, 02:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A Better Name for DUELING?
Single Weapon Fighting/Style
Last edited by elyktsorb; 2020-05-09 at 02:48 PM.
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2020-05-09, 02:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A Better Name for DUELING?
I want you to PEACH me as hard as you can.
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2020-05-09, 02:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A Better Name for DUELING?
Sword and Shield Fighting Style.
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2020-05-09, 02:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A Better Name for DUELING?
Last edited by DrFunkenstein; 2020-05-09 at 03:00 PM.
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2020-05-09, 02:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-05-09, 03:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A Better Name for DUELING?
Swings in the opposite direction, methinks: although most with a one-handed weapon and a Fighting Style will run it as sword-and-board, it's still usable if you're running sword + free hand. A grappler or certain multiclassing spellcasters, as examples. And of course, it's not strictly limited to swords.
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2020-05-09, 03:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-05-09, 03:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A Better Name for DUELING?
Einhander fighting style.
Roll for it 5e Houserules and Homebrew
Old Extended Signature
Awesome avatar by Ceika
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2020-05-09, 03:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-05-09, 03:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-05-09, 03:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A Better Name for DUELING?
what is the point of living if you can't deadlift?
All credit to the amazing avatar goes to thoroughlyS
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2020-05-09, 03:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A Better Name for DUELING?
True.
Here's the one catch: when you are fighting with two weapons, you are fighting with two one-handed weapons, which could introduce some ambiguity. So far, yours is the best suggestion, though I'm still open to a name that is even more clearly focused on using a single one-handed weapon.
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2020-05-09, 03:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A Better Name for DUELING?
to be fair the fact that one style is called 'two weapon fighting' should prevent the confusion. One handed fighting is for fighting with one, one handed weapon. Two weapon fighting is for fighting with, two weapons, that can't require 2 hands per weapon because there are no playable races with four arms.
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2020-05-09, 03:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A Better Name for DUELING?
I think we can sidestep the historical subject here: regardless of viability in real-life, D&D 5e deliberately supports one-handed–weapon + no-shield as a build choice -- and indeed, the Dueling FS is part of that support. (I think there's a reason there's a separate FS taking advantage of shields, albeit it's not the most optimal pick out there.) Having a free hand, while often a pretty good trade for +2 AC, can have a lot of mechanical impact (e.g. item/environment use, grappling, spellcasting).
So it'd be inappropriate to give it a name that suggests it relies on shield-use, or is otherwise just intended for players who use them.Last edited by Lavaeolus; 2020-05-09 at 03:23 PM.
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2020-05-09, 03:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A Better Name for DUELING?
Last edited by DrFunkenstein; 2020-05-09 at 03:25 PM.
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2020-05-09, 03:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A Better Name for DUELING?
Aye it's a very popular fantasy just pointing out duelist not requiring an open hand makes it more open for other forms of duelist than just the one.
Duelist is the general offense focused FS where defense is the general mitigation FS. Protection is pretty bad and why they decided that it needed a shield is beyond me.what is the point of living if you can't deadlift?
All credit to the amazing avatar goes to thoroughlyS
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2020-05-09, 03:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Originally Posted by ProsecutorGodot
Nerull | Wee Jas | Olidammara | Erythnul | Hextor | Corellon Larethian | Lolth | The Deep Ones
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2020-05-09, 05:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A Better Name for DUELING?
How about going for German?
“Einhander”
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2020-05-09, 05:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-05-09, 05:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A Better Name for DUELING?
Kane0 beat you to the punch.
I'd say dueling is actually the best name. Just because people have this odd notion of duels being with rapiers because of the three musketeers does not mean it's less accurate. I can see any number of dumb questions popping up with the other names as well.Last edited by WaroftheCrans; 2020-05-09 at 05:56 PM.
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2020-05-09, 06:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A Better Name for DUELING?
I'm not sure its an "odd notion" of dueling. My paper back dictionary defines a duel as "a combat between two persons, pre-arranged and fought under fixed conditions, generally on an affair of honour" and google has something similar "a contest with deadly weapons arranged between two people in order to settle a point of honour."
Granted neither of those mention rapiers and an empty offhand explicitly, but it certainly conjures that image with the emphasis on honourable combat between two people. (Which apparantly can be persons? I never knew that)"It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
You'll never get out of life alive,
So please kill yourself and save this land,
And your last mission is to spread my command,"
Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself
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2020-05-09, 06:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A Better Name for DUELING?
Roll for it 5e Houserules and Homebrew
Old Extended Signature
Awesome avatar by Ceika
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2020-05-09, 07:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A Better Name for DUELING?
"Sword and Shield Style" may not be technically accurate, but it exactly describes how it is used in 99% of all cases. So it'll be far from confusion. As opposed to now, where the 1% that use it with an empty other hand pick it, and many S&S players don't realize it is (apparently) fully intended to work for them.
In addition, it makes clear that there's no reason for it to be written/intended this way. There already is a style for Shields, and Dueling is encroaching. No other style does that.Last edited by Tanarii; 2020-05-09 at 07:44 PM.
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2020-05-09, 09:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A Better Name for DUELING?
OK folks, I've got my own personal favorite -
Figthing Style: Classic. 'Nuff said.
Maybe for you, but not at for all. Axes? Warhammers? Thrown weapons?
Agreed.
Mostly agreed, though I’ve come up with one that I like better: Classic Fighting Style ;)
Agreed.
Lolz.
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2020-05-09, 09:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A Better Name for DUELING?
How about Swashbuckler Style?
It still conjures the idea of a one-handed weapon user. And since it actual has buckler in the name it implies the use of a shield.
Though I kinda think the easiest solution is just putting this line in the text: *shields are not considered weapons.Last edited by Dienekes; 2020-05-09 at 09:55 PM.
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2020-05-09, 09:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A Better Name for DUELING?
Oh I see. Sorry I'm so used to gamer-speak. You are correct, technically I should have said:
One-Handed & Shield Style
My point was the way it's written and named is as if it's supposed to be focusing on a weapon in one hand and empty other hand. But the actuality is once you carefully parse the language of the rule and read the SAC, turns out in use by those "in the know" it is almost completely used as a shield fighting style. And supposedly, despite it not being immediately clear from the name or the wording of the rule, this is intentional.
Edit: Obviously from your OP you get this point I just finished 'splaining. /sigh and
Point is it's the "& Shield" part of my suggested rename that matters.Last edited by Tanarii; 2020-05-09 at 10:02 PM.
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2020-05-09, 09:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A Better Name for DUELING?
Originally Posted by ProsecutorGodot
Nerull | Wee Jas | Olidammara | Erythnul | Hextor | Corellon Larethian | Lolth | The Deep Ones
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2020-05-09, 10:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A Better Name for DUELING?
OOOooo...
Swashbuckling, ironically, conveys BOTH of the desired connotations of Dueling:
When I hear "Swashbuckling," I first think of pirates or Alexandre Dumas-types wielding a sabre, cutlass or rapier in one hand and nothing in the other. That is in keeping with the "Dueling" connotation that so many people have as commented upon previously.
AND YET!
As you point out, swashbuckling as originally constructed as a word DENOTES using a shield!
It's literally both! We may have a winner here, folks, for my table at least.
Alas, D&D has already created a "Swashbuckler," so WotC is unlikely to pick it up.
Second Place goes to Classic, and Third Place goes to One Handed Weapon Fighting.
Also, I completely agree that if you want to make it more clear, explicitly stating shields are cool in the description is a good way to do it.