How do you fight fire? With fire! [base class]

[Charlie Kemek]

antimage
{table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|

+0

|

+2

|

+2

|

+2

|Absorbing counterspell, detect magic|3|2|-

2nd|

+1

|

+3

|

+3

|

+3

|spellgrace +1|4|3|-

3rd|

+2

|

+3

|

+3

|

+3

|smite caster 1/day|5|4|2|-

4th|

+3

|

+4

|

+4

|

+4

|lesser SR|6|5|3|-|-

5th|

+3

|

+4

|

+4

|

+4

|Bonus feat|6|6|4|2|-|-

6th|

+4

|

+5

|

+5

|

+5

|Spellgrace +2, Evasion|6|7|5|3|-|-

7th|

+5

|

+5

|

+5

|

+5

|Smite 2/day|6|7|6|4|2|-|-|-

8th|

+6/+1

|

+6

|

+6

|

+6

|mod. SR|6|7|7|5|3|-|-|-|-|-

9th|

+6/+1

|

+6

|

+6

|

+6

|Dispel magic|6|7|7|6|4|2|-|-|-|-

10th|

+7/+2

|

+7

|

+7

|

+7

|Bonus Feat||6|7|7|7|5|3|-|-|-

11th|

+8/+3

|

+7

|

+7

|

+7

|Smite 3/day|6|7|7|8|6|4|2|-|-|-

12th|

+9/+4

|

+8

|

+8

|

+8

|Greater SR|6|7|7|8|7|5|3|-|-|-

13th|

+9/+4

|

+8

|

+8

|

+8

|Improved Evasion|6|7|7|8|8|6|4|2|-|-

14th|

+10/+5

|

+9

|

+9

|

+9

|Smite 4/day|6|7|7|8|8|7|5|3|-|-

15th|

+11/+6/+1

|

+9

|

+9

|

+9

|Bonus Feat|6|7|7|8|8|8|6|4|2|-

16th|

+12/+7/+2

|

+10

|

+10

|

+10

|—|6|7|7|8|8|8|7|5|3|-

17th|

+12/+7/+2

|

+10

|

+10

|

+10

|Greater Dispel Magic|6|7|7|8|8|8|8|6|4|2

18th|

+13/+8/+3

|

+11

|

+11

|

+11

|Smite 5/day|6|7|7|8|8|8|8|7|5|3

19th|

+14/+9/+4

|

+11

|

+11

|

+11

|—|6|7|7|8|8|8|8|7|6|4

20th|

+15/+10/+5

|

+12

|

+12

|

+12

|bonus feat|6|7|7|8|8|8|8|7|7|5[/table]

Hd: d8
Armor: proficent with light armor, no shields.
Skills: same as a bard skill list, and 6+int modifier.
Spells: an Antimage learns spells according to the table above. However, he must steal a spell or spell-like ability to use it (see absorbing counterspell, below). An Antimage may learn any spell on the sorcerer/wizard, or cleric spell list. however, an antimage must choose to bar 2 schools of magic. To add to the spells known besides per level, an Antimage must see a caster cast a spell, and use absorbing counterspell on it to cast it, and then in the next 24 hours, must spend an hour concentrating on the spell, and then learns it. He must spend 100 gp of special incenses, and may only do this 3 times a week. An Antimage may cast spells in light armor. like all other spellcasters, an antimage must rest to regain the ability to use absorbing counterspell, but must only rest for four hours, and it need not to be all in a row, so an antimage may take watch in the middle of the night.
Absorbing counterspell: a number of times per day equal to 3+int modifier per spell level, an Antimage may counterspell a spell or spell like effect, and may use the spell to power his own spell he knows of the same level, or cast the spell the opponent casted, anytime in the next 24 hours. He uses the opponents caster level, but uses his Int modifier.
Detect magic:at will as a free action, an antimage may also use this spell to detect magic-users, and identifies their level in a spellcasting class, and which classes.
Smite spellcaster: an Antimage may smite a spellcaster either with the spell energy he cast (not anyone else's), or with a weapon, to add his Int modifier+half his level to the damage of the attack.
Spellgrace: +x+int modifier to his saves against magical spells and spell like effects.
SR: at certain levels, an antimage gains the spell resistance. lesser is 5+character level; mod is 10+level, and greater is 15+level.
Dispel magic: an antimage can use dispel magic at will. later learns to use greater dispel magic at will.
Evasion: as the rogue ability.
imp. evasion: as the rogue ability
Code of conduct: when an antimage gains his first level, he swears to never gain a level in a spellcasting class besides this one. if violated, he loses all class abilities besides armor proficiency, bonus feats, and bab.

[Charlie Kemek]

[saved for charactor examples]
what do people think? too powerful? i know its unusual, but then again, lots of things are.

[DracoDei]

They end up being able to cast all cleric and wiz/sorcerer spell, have all good saves, get SR, and intermediate BAB... yeah, needs to be reigned in JUST A TAD!

While you are at it please bold the ability names, and polish up the grammar...

[Charlie Kemek]

ok, he must now bar 2 schools of magic to learn from. and he still must steal the energy from another caster to cast a spell. any other suggestions?

[KillianHawkeye]

You should pretty much fight everything with fire.

[Charlie Kemek]

okay, i cut the hide in plain sight, invisibility, and possible fast movement, they weren't really fitting into the style of the class, what are we thinking now?

[Neftren]

Dude, why does it have Evasion? That's like, making a blend of all three classes. You're giving it an average BAB, suggesting it does do some melee. It's a freaking spellcaster, not a Duskblade. This is like, a Cleric with Arcane Spells, topped off by good saves in all three things. Just give him Good Will Saves, and poor Ref and Fort Saves. I think it also deserves a knockdown to +10/+5 BAB, although if this is a hybrid melee/mage class, then it might stay...but there are enough of those classes anyway. Bladesinger, Spellsword, Eldritch Knight, Duskblade... to name a few.

[Charlie Kemek]

Dude, why does it have Evasion? That's like, making a blend of all three classes. You're giving it an average BAB, suggesting it does do some melee. It's a freaking spellcaster, not a Duskblade. This is like, a Cleric with Arcane Spells, topped off by good saves in all three things. Just give him Good Will Saves, and poor Ref and Fort Saves. I think it also deserves a knockdown to +10/+5 BAB, although if this is a hybrid melee/mage class, then it might stay...but there are enough of those classes anyway. Bladesinger, Spellsword, Eldritch Knight, Duskblade... to name a few.

i was trying to make it able to defeat a spellcaster easily, and evasion defeats the purpose of a fireball. it also must steal a spell from a spellcaster first, before casting it. spells per day=3+int modifier per spell level. so it gets at first level the same as a sorcerer if they both have 16 chr/int. and it never changes! I wanted to make him like a warmage/warlock with okay bab.

[Neftren]

I think, you ought to take a look at the Spellthief's Steal Spells ability and model it a bit more like that. A caster's ultimate enemy would probably be where he is caught in melee combat and prone, which can easily be accomplished with a big weapon. You see, when you combine classes to improve them, you also have to remove some of the good stuff to make it balanced. While this is an admirable concept, the name doesn't really fit. Maybe if it was just an Evocation specialized caster, similar to the Dread Necromancer, then give it an Improved Fireball ability that lets it ignore Armor AC or something. Maybe along the lines of:

A ______ can fight fire with fire by using an enhanced fireball. This fireball may deal additional damage per caster level and may exceed the 10d6 limit on damage for Fireball etc.

Now do the same for the other Fire based Spells.

[DracoDei]

Do they have to catch spells ONLY to add them to their repetiore(sp)? Or in order to "recharge" their ability to cast spells AT ALL (even those they have permanently "learned")?

[Charlie Kemek]

I think, you ought to take a look at the Spellthief's Steal Spells ability and model it a bit more like that. A caster's ultimate enemy would probably be where he is caught in melee combat and prone, which can easily be accomplished with a big weapon. You see, when you combine classes to improve them, you also have to remove some of the good stuff to make it balanced. While this is an admirable concept, the name doesn't really fit. Maybe if it was just an Evocation specialized caster, similar to the Dread Necromancer, then give it an Improved Fireball ability that lets it ignore Armor AC or something. Maybe along the lines of:

A ______ can fight fire with fire by using an enhanced fireball. This fireball may deal additional damage per caster level and may exceed the 10d6 limit on damage for Fireball etc.

Now do the same for the other Fire based Spells.

the only reason it is called fight fire with fire is because of the saying.

and they catch spells casted by other magic-users to either 1. use the spell energy to cast a spell, or 2. learn it after paying a lot of gold. I think that's what you mean, right?

[DracoDei]

ARRRGH!!!
(Ok... now that I have that out of my system... just kinda annoying I can't seem to ask the question in a way that results in your giving a DEFINITIVE and MEANINGFUL answer...)


IF they (ALL of the below being true) :
1.) Know some spells.
2.) Have cast all the spells the could yesterday
3.) Have rested since then
4.) Have not "caught" any spells since BEFORE they cast any spells yesterday

THEN:
can they cast any spells today!?!

[Charlie Kemek]

NO!

[DracoDei]

Ok, that makes a BIG difference... walking staff of power/rod of absorbsion(sp) then... hmmm....

[kentma57]

You should bold that "per spell level" part in the description of Absorbing counterspell. I spend 10 min trying to find any real power in their casting (I thought they could only absorb 3+int a day).

Also I like the idea of good saves + evation, shows how they have trained to resist spell efects.

[Charlie Kemek]

ok, i cleared up the sleep problems, and underlined the text requested, thanks for the complements guys!