Modernizing the Wheel of Time

[Darth Credence]

While I agree that the series is bloated, this particular bit is just an urban legend. There's one scene where Elayne is taking a bath, which somehow was mythologized into a major element of her storyline.

Like I said, it's been a while since I read it, and I will admit to a lot of skimming in the later books. Now that I think of it, I'm not sure I ever read the Brandon Sanderson books. I'll have to look at a plot summary to see if anything rings a bell.

While you're correct about controversy from the purists potentially being a good thing, the rest of this is oversimplified. New subscribers are a success factor for a streaming property sure, but there's also merchandising, licensing (including tie-ins from other media like console games, mobile games, theatrical releases, tabletop etc), spin-off shows (much easier with a finished product since they know the entirety of established canon - so we could get a Trolloc Wars/Manetheren spinoff, War of the Hundred Years spinoff, Age of Legends spinoff, Breaking of the World spinoff, Travels of Jain Farstrider spinoff etc), and of course any actors or showrunners that take off can be used to drive attention to lesser known properties on the service; if HBO casts the likes of Peter Dinklage, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau or Maisie Williams in literally any property in the future there will be some degree of interest. There's a lot of potential for lucre here beyond simple eyeballs.

There are absolutely a ton of other factors, but many of those factors would have the same incentives as for a different type of broadcaster. I was trying to keep it to just the major difference between a streaming service and a broadcast or even cable network, but I didn't make that clear.

[Psyren]

There are absolutely a ton of other factors, but many of those factors would have the same incentives as for a different type of broadcaster. I was trying to keep it to just the major difference between a streaming service and a broadcast or even cable network, but I didn't make that clear.

Well, we're talking about what might make it a success for Amazon in general, not a success vs. if it had been a traditional network tv show. But even focusing just on the differences between those two models the incentives are worth mentioning. If there is WoT merch for example, it's pretty obvious where Amazon would sell it.

[Liquor Box]

Sure. but we have no way of knowing how much Wheel of Time will cost.
(Also, a Game of Thrones-style epic was a much bigger gamble before - well, Game of Thrones.)

True. How much it will cost will be a choice. Like GoT, WoT has several characters to follow, magic, strange creatures and other aspects requiring special effects, and big battle sequences. So it could easily cost as much or more. But they could also choose to do it more cheaply. If they could get it down to the cost of Umbrella Academy, then I suppose similar viewing numbers would render it a success. They'd probably want to maintain that accross several seasons though.

What do you mean by UA's numbers? The article said that 45 million viewers "sampled" it. That could mean a lot of different things, one end of which being that many people watched the trailer that was automatically popping up, or it could mean people who watched an episode or more. And according to this article, Netflix considers watching 2 minutes of a show to be watching the episode.

I agree with you that the number is not helpful and not comparable to the sorts of figures we usually get from network shows.

But we do know that it was renewed for a second season and that it was third in its category for netflix for the year to date. So we can presume it was seen as a success.

[Gnoman]

There are certainly pages and pages of dress descriptions that wouldn't translate well to screen. And some of the characters' shock over the more form-fitting dresses feels like it probably wouldn't have aged well by the time they're put on screen too. None of that would be offensive, just dated and unnecessary, so it could be trimmed.

Quite the opposite. All those pages and pages of dress descriptions will translate extremely well to screen - because they'll all be covered instantly by the fact that the audience will see the dress on the actress. What takes paragraphs of text to do at the level of detail Jordan wanted takes a single second in a visual medium. As for the whole "sturdy peasant folk aren't comfortable with tight and revealing citified clothes" thing, that's far from obsolete and will not be dated in any way, shape, or form.

[tiornys]

Quite the opposite. All those pages and pages of dress descriptions will translate extremely well to screen - because they'll all be covered instantly by the fact that the audience will see the dress on the actress. What takes paragraphs of text to do at the level of detail Jordan wanted takes a single second in a visual medium. As for the whole "sturdy peasant folk aren't comfortable with tight and revealing citified clothes" thing, that's far from obsolete and will not be dated in any way, shape, or form.

Agreed. Jordan's descriptiveness in general is great for adaptation. Some of the biggest cuts will be the high levels of introspection/internal thoughts, because those generally translate very poorly to the screen. One of the biggest challenges will be portraying the most important pieces of that in some way, most notably what happens to Rand's internal dialogue as the series progresses. I hope they'll be able to show at least some amount of the dissonance between how Mat views himself and how Mat really is, but I don't necessarily expect it.

It'll be interesting to see what they do with the action/fight scenes, because that's the type of scene where an adaptation to screen can easily stretch a lot longer than in the book. For example, there's a scene in The Great Hunt where a fight lasts less than a third of a page, barely more than a short paragraph:

Spoiler: The Great Hunt, p. 259

Show

A knot of Trollocs came into sight, hunting uncertainly. Three of them, four. Suddenly one pointed to Rand and raised a howl the rest answered as they charged.

"Let it be done with!" Rand shouted, and leaped to meet them.

For an instant surprise slowed them, then they came on with gutteral cries, gleeful, bloodthirsty, swords and axes raised. He danced among them to the song of saidin. Hummingbird Kisses the Honeyrose. So cunning that song, filling him. Cat on Hot Sand. The sword seemed alive in his hands as it had never been before, and he fougth as if a heron-mark blade could keep saidin from him. The Heron Spreads Its Wings.

Rand stared at the motionless shapes on the ground....

Think about how long that could easily be on screen. Granted it could also be filmed like Inigo against the hapless guards near the end of The Princess Bride....

[Traab]

That is a really good point. The descriptions which tend to fill up such a bulky part of any book are excised from the length of the tv show/movie because its all visual. I wonder if there is anyone obsessed enough in the world to go through the series, edit out all the descriptive stuff for things like clothes, scenery, even facial expressions, leaving nothing but dialogue, and how many fewer pages the entire series would become. The main exception being the "One does not just walk into mordor" scenes where its a character inside the setting doing the description.

[Psyren]

Quite the opposite. All those pages and pages of dress descriptions will translate extremely well to screen - because they'll all be covered instantly by the fact that the audience will see the dress on the actress. What takes paragraphs of text to do at the level of detail Jordan wanted takes a single second in a visual medium.

You're right about the dresses but there are other things that would be tough to translate. All the cool descriptive blademaster moves for instance, unless Rand and Lan run around calling their attacks. ("The Courtier Taps His Fan!" "The Moon Rises Over The Lakes!" "Cat Dances On The Wall!" "Hummingbird Kisses the Honeyrose!" "Boar Rushes Down The Mountain!" etc.) The early struggles Rand has with channeling might be tough too, when saidin is close to overwhelming him but nobody else can see or hear anything. And the main characters have a lot of internal monologues.

[Kitten Champion]

You're right about the dresses but there are other things that would be tough to translate. All the cool descriptive blademaster moves for instance, unless Rand and Lan run around calling their attacks. ("The Courtier Taps His Fan!" "The Moon Rises Over The Lakes!" "Cat Dances On The Wall!" "Hummingbird Kisses the Honeyrose!" "Boar Rushes Down The Mountain!" etc.) The early struggles Rand has with channeling might be tough too, when saidin is close to overwhelming him but nobody else can see or hear anything. And the main characters have a lot of internal monologues.

I don't see how those would be hard either, or rather, unique to WoT in any way.

Those sword forms are just colourful names applied to fencing tactics which - presumably - already exists. Just take those real-world tactics, find a choreographer who knows how to present them on screen, and compose a fight scene. There's nothing implausible about WoT sword-fighting, and the whole work is full of amalgamating real-world cultures concepts - such as martial arts - into something strangely familiar.

As to presenting internal struggles on a cinematic medium, that's every book-to-screen adaptation in the history of book-to-screen adaptations. Certain ideas might need to be expressed with additional dialogue, but a lot can be done with the medium of film to get someone's mental state out there.

[tiornys]

As to presenting internal struggles on a cinematic medium, that's every book-to-screen adaptation in the history of book-to-screen adaptations. Certain ideas might need to be expressed with additional dialogue, but a lot can be done with the medium of film to get someone's mental state out there.

It's definitely doable, just more challenging than adapting scenery/costume which means it's more vulnerable to being done poorly. And it's extremely important to get it right here, even on the scale of book-to-screen adaptations. There's a lot more highly plot-relevant stuff going on internally in WoT than there is for a lot of other adaptations.

That said, most of the internal monologues don't need to be translated directly. We don't need to be inside e.g. Nynaeve's head to be able to understand her issues with anger and authority. In general, any internal thoughts that are character relevant instead of plot relevant are relatively easy to adapt.

[Rodin]

Quite the opposite. All those pages and pages of dress descriptions will translate extremely well to screen - because they'll all be covered instantly by the fact that the audience will see the dress on the actress. What takes paragraphs of text to do at the level of detail Jordan wanted takes a single second in a visual medium. As for the whole "sturdy peasant folk aren't comfortable with tight and revealing citified clothes" thing, that's far from obsolete and will not be dated in any way, shape, or form.

I also seem to recall that the clothing was a way we see characters evolving. Rand putting on fancy nobleman clothes was a pretty big deal. Mat being instantly at home with city clothes is a major early character trait that distinguishes him from the more conservative Rand and Perrin. The girls are shocked by the clothing of Ebou Dar, but shortly afterwards we see them subconsciously putting the clothing on while in Tel'aran'rhiod. I'm pretty sure at least one of them actually wears the clothing in the real world too.

The only clothing that might be a problem is the aforementioned see-through Seanchan outfits, and that's fixed by simply changing the outfit slightly.

[Kitten Champion]

The only clothing that might be a problem is the aforementioned see-through Seanchan outfits, and that's fixed by simply changing the outfit slightly.

I think you could convey the implication of partially disguised nudity without actually showing anything, that's really not hard to do in film and I don't recall them coming up so often to the point where that'd be obnoxious.

Similarly, I expect the "clad in The Light" scenes will be edited/shot around using the same Hollywood techniques.

[The Glyphstone]

As long as it's not picked up by HBO. Otherwise we'll get the exact opposite.

[tiornys]

Frankly, I'd keep the see-through outfits. I'd just be sure to have all da'covale wearing them (plus a bikini bottom or similar).

Clad in the light scenes are something that can easily be discarded without compromising much. Sure, it's yet another way to reinforce just how afraid the populace was of male channelers after the Breaking, but there's already plenty of that. And there's also plenty of Aes'Sedai ritual that it's not adding much there either. As someone else already said, it's not like the series is lacking in opportunities for nudity/sexiness outside of this.

[Traab]

Careful camera angles are generally good for keeping things "tasteful" when nudity is involved but you dont want to show anything too explicit. Another option being how bathtubs and hot springs and whatever else you might soak in are always JUUUUST deep enough that your upper chest is visible, but nothing else, showing about as much cleavage as a low cut shirt. Or steam baths where the steam is oddly heavy around the private areas but not obscuring the faces, strange how that works. Or a slight alteration in custom, breastbands and a loincloth that makes it rather obvious what gender you are without outright displaying them bare. Stripping down to your skivvies would be enough proof of gender if its decided the show should keep those themes.

[Anteros]

Careful camera angles are generally good for keeping things "tasteful" when nudity is involved but you dont want to show anything too explicit. Another option being how bathtubs and hot springs and whatever else you might soak in are always JUUUUST deep enough that your upper chest is visible, but nothing else, showing about as much cleavage as a low cut shirt. Or steam baths where the steam is oddly heavy around the private areas but not obscuring the faces, strange how that works. Or a slight alteration in custom, breastbands and a loincloth that makes it rather obvious what gender you are without outright displaying them bare. Stripping down to your skivvies would be enough proof of gender if its decided the show should keep those themes.

Oh please don't tell me we're thinking of adding even more bath scenes to the series.

[snowblizz]

You're right about the dresses but there are other things that would be tough to translate. All the cool descriptive blademaster moves for instance, unless Rand and Lan run around calling their attacks. ("The Courtier Taps His Fan!" "The Moon Rises Over The Lakes!" "Cat Dances On The Wall!" "Hummingbird Kisses the Honeyrose!" "Boar Rushes Down The Mountain!" etc.) The early struggles Rand has with channeling might be tough too, when saidin is close to overwhelming him but nobody else can see or hear anything. And the main characters have a lot of internal monologues.

I'd argue the opposite is true here. The fancy swordmove names are I always felt a clever way to verbally describe what is incredibly hard to describe in a meaningful and noon corny way in book form. Here a visual media would I would argue actually make it easier. Or in other words, training scenes can name them, fight scenes wouldn't need to.

E.g. the struggle with Saidin you can probably do with a mental image scene, I can see several dramatic examples in my head as I type (and a lot of bad anime).

The internal monologues are tricker or we end up a with a series where half the content is characters talking to themselves. But I must say, it is probably not the first time this particular problem has occured.

[Traab]

Oh please don't tell me we're thinking of adding even more bath scenes to the series.

Nah, just ways to handle the ones we already have in a way that isnt pure softcore porn.

[lord_khaine]

Nah, just ways to handle the ones we already have in a way that isnt pure softcore porn.

Thats one of the changes i can get on board with.
Lets get rid of all the dumb nudity. Or at least where it does not make sense.

[Seppl]

The internal monologues are tricker or we end up a with a series where half the content is characters talking to themselves. But I must say, it is probably not the first time this particular problem has occured.

That is just a general problem with the transition from book to film (and vice versa). A book cannot just describe the facial expression of a character to convey their thoughts, whereas a movie may very well get away with that. It's called 'acting'

Of course, there is drawbacks to both. A book character can just sit around and have complex thoughts and deep plans, whereas in a movie you would have to frame those same thoughts in some other scene. Maybe by discussing them with someone (But that has the danger of becoming boring!) or by showing how a plan plays out in a characters head (For example the obligatory scene in any heist movie where they show how a plan would work out). On the other hand, acting can convey a lot of information fast, without interrupting the action. Compare to a lot of anime, where action scenes are interrupted for awkward inner monologue because drawn faces cannot convey what a real actor could.

Both directions have been done a thousand times, often to good effect. And sometimes really badly. Anyone thinking about the David Lynch Dune movie with the frequent inner thought moments?

[Psyren]

I'd argue the opposite is true here. The fancy swordmove names are I always felt a clever way to verbally describe what is incredibly hard to describe in a meaningful and noon corny way in book form. Here a visual media would I would argue actually make it easier. Or in other words, training scenes can name them, fight scenes wouldn't need to.

I still feel like that would be a loss though; Wheel of Time's sword moves help to distinguish it from every other fantasy show with skilled sword-users.

What I would prefer would be some kind of quick frame cut to an image of the thing the sword move is named after, or an overlay of some kind. Like a couple of quick frames of a boar rushing down a mountain as Rand charges, or a moon rising over a lake as he swings upward in an arc. Heron Wading Through the Rushes in particular has story significance so they need to spend some time on that one.

I picture it being a bit like how the wolves send brief but complex imagery to convey their names, which Perrin then translates into words - names like Dapple and Hopper (and of course his own, Young Bull.) Do that, but without the implication that the images are being "sent."

E.g. the struggle with Saidin you can probably do with a mental image scene, I can see several dramatic examples in my head as I type (and a lot of bad anime).

Can you elaborate? And yes, I know anime can do this, but chances are we're getting live-action. Although our post-COVID world might actually present a golden opportunity to weave in more CGI than audiences might have tolerated before.

The internal monologues are tricker or we end up a with a series where half the content is characters talking to themselves. But I must say, it is probably not the first time this particular problem has occured.

I think we'll need a few added scenes to help with this. Like a flashback to Siuan and Moiraine being consoled by Verin as novices to help explain why they trust her so quickly, since we won't get to listen to Moiraine monologuing about honeycakes.

That is just a general problem with the transition from book to film (and vice versa). A book cannot just describe the facial expression of a character to convey their thoughts, whereas a movie may very well get away with that. It's called 'acting'

Aren't half the channelers and borderlanders big on hiding their facial expressions? Moiraine and Lan certainly are.

[Lord Raziere]

Aren't half the channelers and borderlanders big on hiding their facial expressions? Moiraine and Lan certainly are.

That reminds me a thing about the Aes Sedai:

Rand the Stone:
Multiple Aes Sedai: Rand Al'thor should not be a stone in his emotions, he needs to care if he is to save the world
*raises eyebrow in icy hypocrite*
they have a point, but Aes Sedai are the very last people in the world that should be making it

[Seppl]

Can you elaborate? And yes, I know anime can do this, but chances are we're getting live-action. Although our post-COVID world might actually present a golden opportunity to weave in more CGI than audiences might have tolerated before.

When I read snowblizz' description I immediately thought about the ring scenes in Lord of the Rings, especially the one near the end of the first movie. In the book that moment is described as Frodo experiencing the farsight that the ring grants, while also being haunted by Sauron's gaze. Those scenes in the movie conveyed that quite well. It is not quite the same as grasping Saidin (which enhances senses, gives a feeling of power, but is also a struggle) but you get the gist how such a scene could be done from Rand's vision. Amp up the coloration, zoom in on details, slow-motion, show Rand struggling with directing Saidin but also gleefully enjoying the power, exhaustion after releasing it. It could also contrast nicely by doing similar scenes for Saidar channellers, which would be staged much more harmonically.

Or if that feels too cliché you may also stage the swordfights similar to Star Wars. Anakin Skywalker's force-enhanced fighting style is a lot like Rand fighting while holding Saidin. The SW-media does a good job of conveying that a Jedi uses superhuman perception.

Aren't half the channelers and borderlanders big on hiding their facial expressions? Moiraine and Lan certainly are.

Is that important for their character though? Maybe, especially if they are Aes Sedai, but probably not true for all such characters in the book. You could still have them show their emotions towards the audience by having their back to other characters during dramatic reveals. Or have Moraine talk to Lan in private. They are confidants and would share private thoughts about the situation. Though such dialogue is potentially boring and expositiony, therefore one must be careful not to use it too often. Point is: Don't be a slave to the books, do not try to recreate each scene 1:1.

[Ramza00]

That reminds me a thing about the Aes Sedai:

Rand the Stone:
Multiple Aes Sedai: Rand Al'thor should not be a stone in his emotions, he needs to care if he is to save the world
*raises eyebrow in icy hypocrite*
they have a point, but Aes Sedai are the very last people in the world that should be making it

Aes Sedai are literal examples of the Peter Principle. (You are promoted up a level to the point you are incompetent at that level, then you remain there forever incompetent. This is because you are promoted for you are good at the current job, not necessarily if you have the skill set for the next job level.) Aes Sedai are hypocrites, but they became hypocrites due to the Peter Principle.

[snowblizz]

Can you elaborate? And yes, I know anime can do this, but chances are we're getting live-action. Although our post-COVID world might actually present a golden opportunity to weave in more CGI than audiences might have tolerated before.

Maybe. I mean eg the Flame and the Void, the mental concentrating technique Rand learns first can easily be visualised, yes with CGI most likely, but everything is CGI or enhanced these days. I mean you hae live action movies that CGI background parts to edit out or in stuff, like Wolf of Wallstreet that had lots of CGI to put in the appropriate timeline but it's all subtle background work.

Struggling with Saidin.. well I see Rand "wrestling" with darkness and gold (the taint and power) respectively. Like bands of dark and gold encircling his arms like twisitng snakes. Or something. Yes a lot of it would be added CGI effects, but not so overblown. That's where I am going with the anime reference.

Seppl covers it well, translate it into images we can interpret, the LotR visuals are something very like what I'm thinking. It can be done badly or it can be done well. Magic in LotR is fairly well visualised, for as low key as it is, at least compared to WoT.

Point is: Don't be a slave to the books, do not try to recreate each scene 1:1.

Basically this yes. Some things are more easily visualised, like normal fighting where books struggles and uses the Forms language. POV and thoughts are easier in text.

And don't be afraid of CGI... live action or no, Tel Aranrhiond (can't be bothered to spell it now) needs to be CGIed, so does a vast number of location establishing shots. Randland is an odd place, it needs to show. I know it can be done. It is a matter of do you care enough to do it right. And that means money and time.

[Seppl]

Though one has to be careful not to overdo it. On second reading my description could also be an episode of Dragon Ball Z.
Hmm, there is even a whole book of people just reacting and commenting on what the main character is doing. Is WoT just shounen anime?

[Psyren]

That reminds me a thing about the Aes Sedai:

Rand the Stone:
Multiple Aes Sedai: Rand Al'thor should not be a stone in his emotions, he needs to care if he is to save the world
*raises eyebrow in icy hypocrite*
they have a point, but Aes Sedai are the very last people in the world that should be making it

This was always a sticking point for me with RJ's writing. Channeling is always an inherently emotional experience - both saidin and saidar make you feel like you can do anything, you hunger for more, you're more aware of all your surroundings, you feel the fear of overchanneling etc. But then every channeler is taught to suppress that as much as possible, with the Aes Sedai going so far as to kick you out if you show any emotions during your final exam. (An inconsistent rule anyway, given that in Moiraine's test she was happily dancing around while nuking trollocs.)

When I read snowblizz' description I immediately thought about the ring scenes in Lord of the Rings, especially the one near the end of the first movie. In the book that moment is described as Frodo experiencing the farsight that the ring grants, while also being haunted by Sauron's gaze. Those scenes in the movie conveyed that quite well. It is not quite the same as grasping Saidin (which enhances senses, gives a feeling of power, but is also a struggle) but you get the gist how such a scene could be done from Rand's vision. Amp up the coloration, zoom in on details, slow-motion, show Rand struggling with directing Saidin but also gleefully enjoying the power, exhaustion after releasing it. It could also contrast nicely by doing similar scenes for Saidar channellers, which would be staged much more harmonically.

Or if that feels too cliché you may also stage the swordfights similar to Star Wars. Anakin Skywalker's force-enhanced fighting style is a lot like Rand fighting while holding Saidin. The SW-media does a good job of conveying that a Jedi uses superhuman perception.

Is that important for their character though? Maybe, especially if they are Aes Sedai, but probably not true for all such characters in the book. You could still have them show their emotions towards the audience by having their back to other characters during dramatic reveals. Or have Moraine talk to Lan in private. They are confidants and would share private thoughts about the situation. Though such dialogue is potentially boring and expositiony, therefore one must be careful not to use it too often. Point is: Don't be a slave to the books, do not try to recreate each scene 1:1.

I expect we'll get a lot more Moiraine-and-Lan expository scenes. Like ASOIAF, the WoT books tended to be shackled to a given character's POV, and like Game of Thrones adding in dialogue scenes that the books couldn't have had is a good way to explain concepts that weren't present outside of monologues before.

You raise a good point about Star Wars, that's full of the kind of acrobatic swordmoves that a WoT blademaster/Warder might be expected to have - with the added bonus of aiel throwing in spear kata, and Perrin's axe-fu/Mat's naginata-fu later in the series adding even more variety.

Though one has to be careful not to overdo it. On second reading my description could also be an episode of Dragon Ball Z.
Hmm, there is even a whole book of people just reacting and commenting on what the main character is doing. Is WoT just shounen anime?

As a matter of fact yes, an anime adaptation would honestly be perfect for it, but we're never getting that due to the AAG.

(Heck, it could have worked for GoT too.)

[Dragonus45]

That reminds me a thing about the Aes Sedai:

Rand the Stone:
Multiple Aes Sedai: Rand Al'thor should not be a stone in his emotions, he needs to care if he is to save the world
*raises eyebrow in icy hypocrite*
they have a point, but Aes Sedai are the very last people in the world that should be making it

Well remember, the Aes Sedai are really bad at not being awful even when they are really honestly trying to help. Its like having an entire squad of Snidely Whiplash lookalikes show up to do charity work while twirling their mustaches and getting offended if mistrust them.

Small Child with kitten in tree: "Help, help my kitty is stuck."
Aes Sedai menacingly approaches: "I am here to handle your cat problem."
Small Child: "So you'll get that cat down right."
Aes Sedai gives menacing laugh: "Yes, soon you need not worry for that cat any more!" etc...

[Lord Raziere]

Though one has to be careful not to overdo it. On second reading my description could also be an episode of Dragon Ball Z.
Hmm, there is even a whole book of people just reacting and commenting on what the main character is doing. Is WoT just shounen anime?

Well lets go over the checklist:
a male hero (Rand Al'thor, check) who is determined to protect those he holds dear (check) goes on a quest to become stronger (check) learns fighting styles with fancy names (check) and discovers that he has a great power within himself that is completely and totally hax (Dragon Reborn, check) but makes him a bit of an outcast as a result (check) along the way he acquires various rivals/companions who stick by his side (check?) and female love interests that can also fight even if they're tsundere (CHECK), these sidekicks soon become irrelevant while he gets all the good fights (check) while the villains are either foils to himself or talk about how hopeless it is for him to win and how he'll never succeed (Forsaken and Dark One, check) and ends changing things for the better kind of but not really (check) and the series goes on forever to create new fights for the hero to face (kinda? check?) until we get a overwrought finale that may or may not be satisfying.

yeah, seems to have shonen traits at least. and like Star Wars, WoT seems to be partially built out of poorly handled eastern culture. if RJ was taking inspiration from such cultures it would go a long way to explaining the way he writes gender- a lot of the women in the series could be described as tsundere.

@ Ramza: here is my take on Aes sedai:
Aes Sedai: Hello we are the Jedi Aes Sedai. We are mysterious and calm users of the Force One Power. We can see the future. Obey our every command, it will totally lead to the best outcome.

*Anything happens*
Aes Sedai: Just as keikaku
Person: but you didn't do anything.
Aes Sedai: That is what you think, but we are totally subtle manipulator masterminds.

Totally Subtle Manipulation:

Spoiler

Show

Aes Sedai: Nearby Male do this thing
Nearby Male: Why?
Aes Sedai: because I say so
Nearby Male: I don't wanna
Aes Sedai: Do it, I say so
Nearby Male: But why?
Aes Sedai: because its needed
Nearby Male: I think I should do the other thing
Aes Sedai: no you shouldn't. do my thing
Nearby Male: No.
Aes Seday: Yes.
Nearby Male: No.
Aes Seday: Yes.
Nearby Male: No.
Aes Seday: Yes.
Nearby Male: No.
Aes Seday: Yes.
Nearby Male: No.
Aes Sedai: Yes.
Nearby Male: Alright fine! Stupid Aes Sedai
Aes Sedai: Just as Keikaku

Female Ta'veren:

Spoiler

Show

Aes Sedai: You Ta'veren, your important, do things
Ta'veren: wait why are all the ta'veren male? why isn't there a female Ta'veren?
Aes Sedai: uuuuuuh....reasons
Ta'veren: uh-huh
Aes Sedai: look your ta'veren that means your like some super-important person that does things and gets riches and fame and whatnot, be happy
Ta'veren: I don't think I will, this job seems more I'm being heavy lifter for fate here while you get to weave your webs from the back in your fancy tower.
Aes Sedai: nonsense, we have no control over this.
Ta'veren: okay, name one female Ta'veren. in all of history.
Aes Sedai: we can actually, Mabriam el Shareed.
Ta'veren: okay what she'd do?
Aes Sedai: she was an Aes sedai queen of Aramelle and signed the compact of ten nations
Ta'veren: Okay. is that it?
Aes Sedai: what do you mean thats it?
Ta'veren: I mean its no Artur Hawkwing or Lews Therin Telamon or.....Us three.
Aes Sedai: look Ta'veren are not equal
Ta'veren: yes and the only female ta'veren out of the known six did not do nearly enough as the other five. right. I'm starting to think there is slanted odds here.
Aes Sedai: harrumph! *stomps away*

(granted this one was from reading a wiki on who Mabriam El Shareed is since I didn't even know IF there was any female Ta'veren before doing so, and thats allt he wiki says on her, so if there is more I don't know and I don't care to check.)

"False" Dragon:
Moiraine: Rand Al'Thor is the Dragon Reborn
The rest of the Aes Sedai: No he isn't, he is just another false dragon
Moiraine *points*
*Rand is busy fighting for his life against the Forsaken, too busy to talk*
Aes Sedai: that proves nothing.
Moiraine: lets have a long discussion about it.
*calmly sips tea while fight continues happening*

but yeah. Aes Sedai. not as competent as they say they are.

[Morgaln]

Well lets go over the checklist:
a male hero (Rand Al'thor, check) who is determined to protect those he holds dear (check) goes on a quest to become stronger (check) learns fighting styles with fancy names (check) and discovers that he has a great power within himself that is completely and totally hax (Dragon Reborn, check) but makes him a bit of an outcast as a result (check) along the way he acquires various rivals/companions who stick by his side (check?) and female love interests that can also fight even if they're tsundere (CHECK), these sidekicks soon become irrelevant while he gets all the good fights (check) while the villains are either foils to himself or talk about how hopeless it is for him to win and how he'll never succeed (Forsaken and Dark One, check) and ends changing things for the better kind of but not really (check) and the series goes on forever to create new fights for the hero to face (kinda? check?) until we get a overwrought finale that may or may not be satisfying.

yeah, seems to have shonen traits at least. and like Star Wars, WoT seems to be partially built out of poorly handled eastern culture. if RJ was taking inspiration from such cultures it would go a long way to explaining the way he writes gender- a lot of the women in the series could be described as tsundere.

@ Ramza: here is my take on Aes sedai:
Aes Sedai: Hello we are the Jedi Aes Sedai. We are mysterious and calm users of the Force One Power. We can see the future. Obey our every command, it will totally lead to the best outcome.

*Anything happens*
Aes Sedai: Just as keikaku
Person: but you didn't do anything.
Aes Sedai: That is what you think, but we are totally subtle manipulator masterminds.

Totally Subtle Manipulation:

Spoiler

Show

Aes Sedai: Nearby Male do this thing
Nearby Male: Why?
Aes Sedai: because I say so
Nearby Male: I don't wanna
Aes Sedai: Do it, I say so
Nearby Male: But why?
Aes Sedai: because its needed
Nearby Male: I think I should do the other thing
Aes Sedai: no you shouldn't. do my thing
Nearby Male: No.
Aes Seday: Yes.
Nearby Male: No.
Aes Seday: Yes.
Nearby Male: No.
Aes Seday: Yes.
Nearby Male: No.
Aes Seday: Yes.
Nearby Male: No.
Aes Sedai: Yes.
Nearby Male: Alright fine! Stupid Aes Sedai
Aes Sedai: Just as Keikaku

Female Ta'veren:

Spoiler

Show

Aes Sedai: You Ta'veren, your important, do things
Ta'veren: wait why are all the ta'veren male? why isn't there a female Ta'veren?
Aes Sedai: uuuuuuh....reasons
Ta'veren: uh-huh
Aes Sedai: look your ta'veren that means your like some super-important person that does things and gets riches and fame and whatnot, be happy
Ta'veren: I don't think I will, this job seems more I'm being heavy lifter for fate here while you get to weave your webs from the back in your fancy tower.
Aes Sedai: nonsense, we have no control over this.
Ta'veren: okay, name one female Ta'veren. in all of history.
Aes Sedai: we can actually, Mabriam el Shareed.
Ta'veren: okay what she'd do?
Aes Sedai: she was an Aes sedai queen of Aramelle and signed the compact of ten nations
Ta'veren: Okay. is that it?
Aes Sedai: what do you mean thats it?
Ta'veren: I mean its no Artur Hawkwing or Lews Therin Telamon or.....Us three.
Aes Sedai: look Ta'veren are not equal
Ta'veren: yes and the only female ta'veren out of the known six did not do nearly enough as the other five. right. I'm starting to think there is slanted odds here.
Aes Sedai: harrumph! *stomps away*

(granted this one was from reading a wiki on who Mabriam El Shareed is since I didn't even know IF there was any female Ta'veren before doing so, and thats allt he wiki says on her, so if there is more I don't know and I don't care to check.)

"False" Dragon:
Moiraine: Rand Al'Thor is the Dragon Reborn
The rest of the Aes Sedai: No he isn't, he is just another false dragon
Moiraine *points*
*Rand is busy fighting for his life against the Forsaken, too busy to talk*
Aes Sedai: that proves nothing.
Moiraine: lets have a long discussion about it.
*calmly sips tea while fight continues happening*

but yeah. Aes Sedai. not as competent as they say they are.

In fairness, Aes Sedai learning that they're not as special as they think they are and that their way is not necessarily the best way is a major theme of the series.

[Sapphire Guard]

You're not kicked out for showing emotion, you're kicked out for not being calm enough to act under pressure. Showing fear is fine. Panicking and running is not.