OOTS #1206 - The Discussion Thread

[Mic_128]

Is it pronounced "Dur - kahn" or "Dur - kun"? (Also, is it Zy - kahn or Zy - kun?)

I always pronounced them as Dur - con and Zy - con.

[stips]

I expect at some point there is going to be a humerous reference to mortals heads blowing up if they literally hear their god's voice spoken to them, aka the movie Dogma where the Metatron mentioned them going through a half dozen Adams before they realized what was going on, and the end of the movie where God (alanis morissette) speaks to Bartleby (ben afflick) and his head explodes lol.

[Fitzclowningham]

As I read things, Redcloak can assist Thor without intervention from TDO. Cast a 9th level spell, and that's it. Maybe TDO's reticence will leave space for Redcloak to decide the issue on his own. After 3-400 pages or so.

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

I just had a funny thought regarding this discussion:

Durkon: Of course, the only reason I was able to speak my god even once was because I died, so I guess its not that abnormal...
Redcloak: wait....you only spoke to your god directly because you died. Jirix only spoke to my god directly because he died. Can we...?
Durkon:....only speak to our deities when we die? I know Thor doesn't answer my Communes....if this normal I don't think its a good thing...
*Redcloak casts Commune, fails*
*both stare at each other*
*smash cut to Durkon trying to kill Redcloak*
Durkon: I'm sorry!! I promise to resurrect ye!!
Redcloak: Don't be this is needed! Stupid gods not paying attention to their followers!

Hey! No one hits the goblin in his face but me!

[brian 333]

Durkon: "...Mebbe 'e dinnae want ta ruin tha friendship."
"Crap. I think I just failed a Diplomacy check."

[Nephrahim]

I've always thought it was odd that the dark one never spoke directly to redcloak. I mean, I know Thor hadn't until now either, but Redcloak is the most important goblin in the world. And the only time we ever hear from him, indirectly, was when what's-his-face who's in charge of Azure city now met him, but then remember how he killed the demon roaches the moment redcloak left? At the time I thought it just meant he was an *******, but maybe The Dark One told him something he didn't share?

[Squire Doodad]

I've always thought it was odd that the dark one never spoke directly to redcloak. I mean, I know Thor hadn't until now either, but Redcloak is the most important goblin in the world. And the only time we ever hear from him, indirectly, was when what's-his-face who's in charge of Azure city now met him, but then remember how he killed the demon roaches the moment redcloak left? At the time I thought it just meant he was an *******, but maybe The Dark One told him something he didn't share?

"So no one ever told me where the show Commune Log hotkey was..."

[Wizard_Lizard]

I mean that comic went nowhere how I expected it to, but it was brilliant.

[MoleMage]

Did Redcloak adjust the seat with Stone Shape as a way to be polite?

Durkon had just expended a potentially useful spell slot for no purpose other than to make Redcloak more comfortable. Even more than leaving his weapons behind, that is an indication of peaceful intention by means of setting aside dangerous resources.

Redcloak recognized it as such, and also expended a spell slot to politely level the playing field, so to speak. But because he's still in his turf and he's not as trusting as Durkon, he expended a lower level slot.

[Squire Doodad]

Did Redcloak adjust the seat with Stone Shape as a way to be polite?

Durkon had just expended a potentially useful spell slot for no purpose other than to make Redcloak more comfortable. Even more than leaving his weapons behind, that is an indication of peaceful intention by means of setting aside dangerous resources.

Redcloak recognized it as such, and also expended a spell slot to politely level the playing field, so to speak. But because he's still in his turf and he's not as trusting as Durkon, he expended a lower level slot.

That's a good way of looking at it, very interesting.

[Seward]

Poor RC, friend-zoned by his deity.

35 years, eh?

Redcloak's avoided dying. There isn't anybody to raise him.

I once played a very devout Half-orc monk of Pholtus (think LN god of Light and Inflexibility, who has mostly human priests).

Due to a God of Chaos I got body-swapped with a priest of Pholtus who had commune prepped. I'm like SWEET. "Hey Pholtus, So my first question is - It's cool that I'm a Half-Orc right?"

(Pholtus was....patient with me).

Then later I died because my chaotic teammates kept trying to parlay with Slaad that were trying to eat our faces. Pholtus looked at me and said "So you know what you did wrong there right?"

Pholtus was happier with me when I died saving one of his priests from a grapplemonster....he gave me advice on taking a different feat when I recovered the lost level.

It's not hard to meet your deity as a devout D&D person. If you die.

Honestly Redcloak. Prep Commune already. Yes, there's a limit to how much of a relationship you can have with just Yes or No questions, but you know...."Is Durkon telling the truth?" "Is helping him the right thing to do?" etc seems like good input to get from The Dark One.

You'll never know if your deity is into you if you don't at least ask!

I wonder if Redcloak will “die” to discuss it with his god. I’m guessing no but am interested to see how he puts it to his god.

Actually with Durkon right there, this is probably the first opportunity he'd have to get raised if he took that route.

Although losing a level when you're that close to Epic would be pretty painful. I'd go with prepping Commune if I was Redcloak and pick my questions carefully.

It probably speaks to my lack of imagination that I never thought of using "Wall of Stone" to create outdoor furniture. Does this take extra practice or skill points in sculpting, or is this the basic spell?

You can do kind of crude stuff with it. It's not Fabricate. But it is good enough to do a bridge that doesn't fall down, for example.

Dwarves have stonecunning, so I'd probably give a bit more slack if he's got no Craft skills, just because that racial ability is pretty useless, to have it come up at least once in the game.

They were a group of adventurers, who went through just as much as our Sticks,
and still turned on eachother with the harshest vitrol over a disagreement. (Lirian and Dorukan excepted)

Well, they had paladin+chaotics in the same party, so they had ongoing conflict masked only by a larger goal. Then somebody died, possibly somebody everybody liked (unlike Belkar) and that shattered the fragile accord.

It's at the end of the quest that party divisions like this happen. I ran a Temple of Elemental Evil game where a Paladin of Cuthbert and a Druid did gritted-teeth cooperation because the Temple was a problem both had (and in 1st ed rules Paladin could only adventure with a Neutral for "one adventure". They just defined it as "Defeat the Temple).

The Druid came within a die roll twice of joining the other side (due to complex stuff that included a demigod manipulating things), and if he had, the other Neutrals in the party likely would have joined him. One of those key die rolls was one of the last actions of the campaign.

[Tarthalion]

Love this strip. I was grinning ear to ear by the end of the last panel.

Me too. Much as I like OOTS, I have to admit my usual reaction is simply impatience for the next strip. This one left me grinning like an idiot.

Which means the next strip will probably be a real downer...

[brian 333]

Actually with Durkon right there, this is probably the first opportunity he'd have to get raised if he took that route.

Although losing a level when you're that close to Epic would be pretty painful. I'd go with prepping Commune if I was Redcloak and pick my questions carefully.

Do you like me? (Yes/No)

Do you like-like me? (Yes/No)

If you do like-like me, what do you like most?

My hair? (Yes/No)
My eyes? (Yes/No)
My bloodthirsty ruthlesness in following Your plan? (Yes/No)

[Emperor Time]

Poor Redcloak, 35 years as his high priest but not once has his god talk to him directly. Durkon has talk to his god and he isn't even the high priest of Thor. So at least their discussion hasn't broken down yet which is impressive when you think about the relationship between the races of dwarves and goblins.

[The_Weirdo]

I can sorta pinpoint at least one source of conflict for the Scribbles: Kraagor's death and the difference between how Soon reacted to it and how the Chaotics of the group did. Soon seemed to treat it as an unfortunate sacrifice for the Greater Good (tm) while the Chaotics - as they would likely do - valued the individual way more.

To be sure, Girard being Chaotic (and I'd not be too surprised if he were Evil; remember, he did run a baby kidnapping ring, here) added a lot of tension before it all went pear-shaped, but Kraagor's death - and him not being remembered - was likely the last straw.

The way Girard talks, mind, makes me think he's extremely prejudiced towards the Lawful in general and the militaristic in particular (and when I am calling someone out for that, you can tell how off the deep end they are). And it's quite hard to blame him, given that his native landmass is/was basically a free-for-all between Lawful Evil militaristic rulers that is finally getting united under three such ones.

While I don't side too far with Soon on the "Kraagor being remembered" issue and on his sacrifice (though he knew the risks and was at least sorta willing), my view of the Girard-Soon relationship - or mistrust - is basically as follows: Soon was a surly paladin that didn't seem to be much of a talker - which, in itself, is nothing troublesome at all. Girard, however, saw in the surly, Lawful Good, militaristic type the kind of person he always had every reason to despise. And Soon didn't seem to notice or care that Girard operated under such notions (and, to be fair to Soon, it wasn't his fault). In fact, Girard's entire dungeon and means of defense of the gate are those of a freedom fighter archetype - remember, the heroes that deal with such people as Tarquin generally need to be extremely discreet about it and to apply subterfuge and misdirection.

No such dynamics exists in the Order of the Stick. There is no member that sees Roy - or even any other member - as everything wrong with the world, as everything they despise. Even Belkar is seen as objectionable by everyone, but no one there believes that he - or those like him - is to blame for everything wrong with their homeland or world. Likewise, Roy is surly, but is willing to talk and understand those he leads and vice-versa.

At the end of the day, the Order of the Stick is way more functional than the Order of the Scribble, not only because they communicate, but also because none of them has the trappings that would trigger personal trauma on anyone else. (And I reiterate here, the thing with Girard's personal trauma isn't Soon's fault - and, when Chaotic Neutral little me says that, you can take it to the bank).

[Sermil]

Well, it does say in the SRD description:

Unlike a wall of iron, you can create a wall of stone in almost any shape you desire.

The only thing that's a bit vague about that is what "almost" any shape consists of--my guess is that it's worded that way because the ultimate answer is "Your DM will decide how fancy you can be", so the wording gives them leeway to refuse that 1/200th scale model of Mount Rushmore you planned on creating...

Oh, come, these are PC murder-hobos. "I shape my Wall of Stone into an infinitely sharp spear directly above the enemy's head." DM: "It needs to be supported, not just hanging in space" "OK, it's supported by a super-thin piece of rock off to one side that doesn't have enough strength to support the weight of the spear..."

"I shape my Wall of Stone into a web of mono-molecular fibers all around the villain"

"I shape my Wall of Stone into a billion tiny grains of sand which fly up in the breeze and choke the archer"

[Psyren]

Oh, come, these are PC murder-hobos. "I shape my Wall of Stone into an infinitely sharp spear directly above the enemy's head." DM: "It needs to be supported, not just hanging in space" "OK, it's supported by a super-thin piece of rock off to one side that doesn't have enough strength to support the weight of the spear..."

"I shape my Wall of Stone into a web of mono-molecular fibers all around the villain"

"I shape my Wall of Stone into a billion tiny grains of sand which fly up in the breeze and choke the archer"

None of those are "crude shapes."

[Peelee]

Oh, come, these are PC murder-hobos. "I shape my Wall of Stone into an infinitely sharp spear directly above the enemy's head." DM: "It needs to be supported, not just hanging in space" "OK, it's supported by a super-thin piece of rock off to one side that doesn't have enough strength to support the weight of the spear..."

"I shape my Wall of Stone into a web of mono-molecular fibers all around the villain"

"I shape my Wall of Stone into a billion tiny grains of sand which fly up in the breeze and choke the archer"

Spoiler: DM's reply:

Show

[Obscuraphile]

I think its funny that Durkon creates tall seats for himself and RC. RC says "too high" and fixes the height.

Durkon sits on a high seat, with his short legs dangling. But by doing so, they are equivalent heights for the negotiation. Smart move, Durkon.

Not to explain the joke but Redcloak is technically a small creature, while Durkon is medium. It's a great bit of understated D&D humor

[Peelee]

Not to explain the joke but Redcloak is technically a small creature, while Durkon is medium. It's a great bit of understated D&D humor

Redcloak is medium, as are all goblins in OotS. He is human-sized, which is larger than Dwarf. For them to sit at the a comfortable height, Durkon needs to sit higher. Redcloak lowered his seat, since Durkon made them both tall-ish seats.

Its not really a joke, and it's definitely not a "goblins are small" joke.

[RatElemental]

Say can you grab stuff when you’re cloudwalking? Like a friend?

Doubtful, but Durkon can freely switch back and forth between cloud form and physical form for at least about 11 hours.

[HalflingRonRon]

Awesome moment, Redcloaks one of the best written / in depth characters in the comic - Cant help but wonder if the Monster In The Darkness is going to fit in to this story arc soon as a major reveal..

[deltamire]

I always pronounced them as Dur - con and Zy - con.

Same to both of these!

The way that different people evolve different pronunciations of text-based fantasy names, which as a genre already is pretty bad for unpronounceable syllables, has always been a great love of mine.

[Obscuraphile]

Redcloak is medium, as are all goblins in OotS.

Do you have a source on that one?

[Goremplotz]

Maybe The Dark One just hasn't been a god for long enough to have understood the value of pampering communicating with his followers?

[mjasghar]

Do you have a source on that one?

His size can be compared to that of humans as can that of goblins and hobgoblins in the azure city story

[Fyraltari]

Do you have a source on that one?

I for one, beloved that the goblins being the same size as medium-sized creatures, significantly taller than small-sized creatures and significantly smaller than large-sized creatures may be a clue towards them being medium-sized creatures.

Of course, given that The Giant is we’ll-known for his, borderline obsessive, strict adherence to the rules of a game that has been out of print for more than a decade it is entirely possible that our eyes deceive us and that the goblins are, indeed, small-sized.

[Cifer]

I wonder if the party is going to crash this, or Xykon...

They're just sitting in the open. Naturally this basically shouldn't be able to work... Durkon doesn't, strictly speaking, have any good bargaining chips apart from "My god said yours wouldn't survive until the next world!"

Well, there is the major factor that Redcloak's bargaining position isn't as strong as he thinks either because he assumes that letting the world get destroyed is something the gods would do everything to prevent rather than, well, what most are kind of expecting to happen anyway. So Durkon's bargaining chip is basically "Either we do this now or we wait until just a single god changes their vote and kills you, me, everyone around us and probably your god too."

[LadyEowyn]

Doubtful, but Durkon can freely switch back and forth between cloud form and physical form for at least about 11 hours.

Dude. Why don’t people use this spell all the time? It’s (tactically) as good as being a vampire. Seriously injured in battle and healer isn’t immediately available? Just go incorporeal! It’s the perfect contingency plan.

Need to attack a flying opponent without being ranged? Go to cloud form, fly up, and switch back to physical form while directly above them.

[Fyraltari]

Dude. Why don’t people use this spell all the time? It’s (tactically) as good as being a vampire. Seriously injured in battle and healer isn’t immediately available? Just go incorporeal! It’s the perfect contingency plan.

Need to attack a flying opponent without being ranged? Go to cloud form, fly up, and switch back to physical form while directly above them.

Everybody gangsta until someone pulls out a leaf-blower.