MitD XV: The Other Dark One

[Charybdis136]

Well, he still got his butt whooped by Ochul.

I think Ochul was just trying to be nice.

You can learn quickly and still lose. I learned GO from someone who was around 3 kyu at the time, and he said I leaner fast because I went quickly down to about 12 kyu with minimal practice, but I still do not stand a chance against my teacher. Learning quickly does not mean you are done leanering, it just means that an average person would progress slower. No more and no less. Judging by other moments of insight by the MitD I would imagine he has high int (but potentially low wisdom). It is not super relevant either way, it does not move us any closer to figuring out the mystery.

[Crusher]

I'd like to put my vote down for Protean, please.

What's a Xenocrysth, by the way? My attempts at googling it have been unenlightening.

Yeah, not surprising. Its extremely obscure. In a nutshell, it looks kinda like an extra big yuan-ti abomination with a heavy mace-like bludgeon on the end of its tail and a spiky bone carapace around its torso. Its very, very strong and has powerful psionics.

[Baine]

Yeah, not surprising. Its extremely obscure. In a nutshell, it looks kinda like an extra big yuan-ti abomination with a heavy mace-like bludgeon on the end of its tail and a spiky bone carapace around its torso. Its very, very strong and has powerful psionics.

So, a psychic Bowser? Or more like an anklyosaurus?

EDIT: I am now changing my vote to "Psychic Bowser"

[b_jonas]

What's a Xenocrysth, by the way? My attempts at googling it have been unenlightening.

Grey Wolf has added it to the first posts now, so search those. It was a recent suggestion, that's why it wasn't in those posts before.

[Crusher]

So, a psychic Bowser? Or more like an anklyosaurus?

EDIT: I am now changing my vote to "Psychic Bowser"

Heh. Well, if you remove his legs and make his tail much, much longer so you could envision him just slithering around on that (while still being upright) then you’re at least in the ballpark.

[Throknor]

So I recently learned more about the Aboleth in general. Here are some points that could be added to Aboleth Mage:

• Can read minds for what is wanted - how it knew where to send O'Chul
• Could be somewhere between Huge and Guargantuan - by recent arguments, could this adjust the strength to enough to fit the FBS?

Random ramblings:

• Definitely intelligent enough to learn Go quickly. (Not a criteria, but fits in with recent discussions.)
• The place I learned of the Aboleth literally had a split personality and was "good" sometimes
• Story thoughts: if its memories predate the gods and it wants to save the world thanks to O'Chul... OK, just the start of a thought. (Yes, "story impact" is too undefinable to use as a criteria. But it was one of Rich's so can be interesting to some.)

So between it being able to be larger and our recent haggling about size vs. strength, is that enough to maybe reconsider it? I'm not pushing it yet; just testing the water.

Though I am adding it to my guesses as personally I like it a lot, and I go for the long odds:
Aboleth Mage -> Uvuudaum > Glabrezu

Spoiler: My sources

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Technical sources:
d20srd.org - Aboleth

worldofmedieval - Aboleth

Where I learned of it, with fluff text (possibly from Tomb of Annihilation): Youtube - Puffin Forest

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Could be somewhere between Huge and Guargantuan - by recent arguments, could this adjust the strength to enough to fit the FBS?

It's strength is 28. It doesn't make it in regardless of size (which in the SRD is listed as Huge).

GW

[Jaziggy]

Me, to Xenocrysth: 'You made it, buddy! You're in the FBS! I'm so proud of you'

Xenocrysth, to me: *SPLORCH*

Me: ::liquefied from the inside out::

[Nail]

So I recently learned more about the Aboleth in general. Here are some points that could be added to Aboleth Mage:

• Can read minds for what is wanted - how it knew where to send O'Chul
• Could be somewhere between Huge and Guargantuan - by recent arguments, could this adjust the strength to enough to fit the FBS?

Random ramblings:

• Definitely intelligent enough to learn Go quickly. (Not a criteria, but fits in with recent discussions.)
• The place I learned of the Aboleth literally had a split personality and was "good" sometimes
• Story thoughts: if its memories predate the gods and it wants to save the world thanks to O'Chul... OK, just the start of a thought. (Yes, "story impact" is too undefinable to use as a criteria. But it was one of Rich's so can be interesting to some.)

So between it being able to be larger and our recent haggling about size vs. strength, is that enough to maybe reconsider it? I'm not pushing it yet; just testing the water.

Though I am adding it to my guesses as personally I like it a lot, and I go for the long odds:
Aboleth Mage -> Uvuudaum > Glabrezu

My understanding of Aboleths is they are aquatic, which while not being a deal breaker should be considered.

[Keltest]

My understanding of Aboleths is they are aquatic, which while not being a deal breaker should be considered.

I think a bigger downside is that they have three eyes stacked vertically. Unless the MITD is flopping around on its side and has one eye closed all the time, its a little unlikely to fit.

[Particle_Man]

By the way are templates part of the equation? The epic pseudonatural template adds quite a kick!

[Fyraltari]

By the way are templates part of the equation? The epic pseudonatural template adds quite a kick!

Well, sort of.

Are templated creatures allowed?

Yes and no. You can put in a guess (that will be recorded in Crusher's list of guesses post) with as many templates, class levels, HD boosts, etc as you feel is called for. But when it comes to recording suggestions (section 3), only the base creature, as described in the statblock, is listed - templates are instead classified in section 2d. The reason for this is twofold: first, as per section 2d, templates are a kind of crutch, since they can be used by any creature, so it doesn't so much explain an MitD characteristic as much as declare it is not such, since others of his species can't do what he can.

But more importantly, the number of combinations of template and creature is practically infinite. I don't want to have to insert or maintain entries for species X; species X-template A; species X - template B; species X, templates A & B; etc. - because in the end, the information all those would contain is the entry for species X, and the information under the template entries in 2d. No need to duplicate the information.

[Particle_Man]

Well there was that multi-templated snail villain from the dragon magazine run, but I really don't see that guy being the MitD. ;)

[Nail]

I think a bigger downside is that they have three eyes stacked vertically. Unless the MITD is flopping around on its side and has one eye closed all the time, its a little unlikely to fit.

Where Throknor (& I) learned about them is a video that depicted them as 2 eyed & whale like.

[Throknor]

It's strength is 28. It doesn't make it in regardless of size (which in the SRD is listed as Huge).

GW

I have two separate responses with different lines of thinking:

1) Is there any math if it uses all four tentacles at once? In D&D I mean; obviously in the real world they would be accumulative. One arm punching might not break a board but four in the same place are much more likely to.

2) If strength gets knocked down when something gets smaller I would expect it to go up when it gets larger. From the page we both went to:
Advancement: 9-16 HD (Huge); 17-24 HD (Gargantuan)

I'm not sure what "Advancement" means, and I know the strength is listed as a hard 28, it just seems odd to me it is specifically listed as growing with no other change. We're all tired of the dragon argument but that's the reference I'm thinking of.

And tone doesn't necessarily come through: I'm not trying to be overtly argumentative. I just learned more about this creature and the fluff as described seemed very compelling. And I'm not even trying to get it on the FBS per se; I'm presenting it as a thought exercise about a creature I don't recall knowing anything about when it was first proposed and whether the size or multi-tentacles hit could explain things. I've made the points I wanted to; I hope to not belabor them.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I have two separate responses with different lines of thinking:

1) Is there any math if it uses all four tentacles at once? In D&D I mean; obviously in the real world they would be accumulative. One arm punching might not break a board but four in the same place are much more likely to.

No, that's not how STR works in D&D. Using more than one arm to attack just does more HP damage and gives more chances to hit, but strength is the same.

2) If strength gets knocked down when something gets smaller I would expect it to go up when it gets larger. From the page we both went to:
Advancement: 9-16 HD (Huge); 17-24 HD (Gargantuan)

Yes, it does. But Huge is already larger than MitD is. We'd need to take away strength, not add it.

GW

[Jasdoif]

If strength gets knocked down when something gets smaller I would expect it to go up when it gets larger. From the page we both went to:
Advancement: 9-16 HD (Huge); 17-24 HD (Gargantuan)

I'm not sure what "Advancement" means, and I know the strength is listed as a hard 28, it just seems odd to me it is specifically listed as growing with no other change.

Advancement shows how the creature can be made tougher, basically. In the case of the typical aboleth it's by adding racial hit dice; and once it has 17 it moves up a size category to Gargantuan, with all the changes that entails (larger space, longer reach, more strength, less dexterity, etc.)

And tone doesn't necessarily come through: I'm not trying to be overtly argumentative. I just learned more about this creature and the fluff as described seemed very compelling. And I'm not even trying to get it on the FBS per se; I'm presenting it as a thought exercise about a creature I don't recall knowing anything about when it was first proposed and whether the size or multi-tentacles hit could explain things. I've made the points I wanted to; I hope to not belabor them.

Lord of Madness has an entire chapter on aboleths, talking about anatomy/mindset/life/society/etc. (in addition to more game-rule-oriented stuff). Probably most relevant in this case is that aboleths that are forced to live away from large bodies of water for extended periods can eventually adapt and become amphibious.

[b_jonas]

In the previous thread, we talked about bonus languages that monsters get.

For monsters, the relevant entry is here, under intelligence:

A creature can speak all the languages mentioned in its description, plus one additional language per point of Intelligence bonus. Any creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher understands at least one language (Common, unless noted otherwise).

I was just looking at dragons. The moster description says that all dragons speak Draconic, and that young adult black dragons have Int 12, and ancient black dragons have Int 16. I think that means that the young adult black dragon from the cave should speak two languages, and the ancient black dragon should speak four languages. In fact, the young adult black dragon speaks Lizard language, which his mother taught him according to #182, and also speaks Common to the Order in #185, so he knows three languages. The ancient black dragon must speak Lizard since he taught it to his child, plus he speaks Common to Vaarsuvius, and understands what Vaarsuvius's mate says to the children in elven in #636 second and third panel, so we have his four languages. Do you think this means that the young adult black dragon gets a bonus language from something other than his Int bonus? It can't be just a Comprehend Languages spell, the statement in #182 doesn't seem to allow that. Or does he have an Int higher than usual for a young adult black dragon? The latter would be interesting because it would be evidence that some monsters in this universe have higher ability numbers than what's listed in their description.

[Kish]

Mothers are not usually male.

[Xhosant]

So, two thoughts to contribute.

First, the monster seems oddly familiar to goblins and goblinoids. Redcloak is the only member of Team Evil to recognise it. Oona knows what it is, with a wildly different background. Most importantly, the only folks unfazed at the circus scene were the two goblins.

Second, in strip 701 we have two issues:
One, the rope has no appendages on it and doesn't fade into the darkness. Two, the monster expresses that moving and holding are two activities that are tough to combine.

To me, that means the MitD interacts with its environment solely with some manner of telekinesis. There are other indications - for example, on strips 549-550 it lifts the bucket to the cardboard window, without pulling it in the box or (presumably) reaching out of the box and into the light.

I have stronger feelings for #2 than #1, but e,h who knows.

[Peelee]

Most importantly, the only folks unfazed at the circus scene were the two goblins.

Who had explicitly seen him before, at least once (I got the impression it was more than once, but I cannot definitively state that).

[Grey_Wolf_c]

First, the monster seems oddly familiar to goblins and goblinoids. Redcloak is the only member of Team Evil to recognise it. Oona knows what it is, with a wildly different background. Most importantly, the only folks unfazed at the circus scene were the two goblins.

RC is a nerd with access to monster manuals. Oona is a beastmaster. The nephews knew MitD because they regularly went to the circus when their parents wanted some quality alone time. None of those explanations require their species to be goblinoid.

Second, in strip 701 we have two issues:
One, the rope has no appendages on it and doesn't fade into the darkness. Two, the monster expresses that moving and holding are two activities that are tough to combine.

To me, that means the MitD interacts with its environment solely with some manner of telekinesis. There are other indications - for example, on strips 549-550 it lifts the bucket to the cardboard window, without pulling it in the box or (presumably) reaching out of the box and into the light.

And yet in SoD, he can't get hold of a bucket of food hanging outside his box without rocking the box.

Grey Wolf

[Schroeswald]

So I think Peelee and Grey Wolf didn't notice this was the old thread, but this is not the current thread about the Monster in the Darkness, this one is.

[Xhosant]

So I think Peelee and Grey Wolf didn't notice this was the old thread, but this is not the current thread about the Monster in the Darkness, this one is.

Oooh, thanks!

[Tvtyrant]

My understanding of Aboleths is they are aquatic, which while not being a deal breaker should be considered.

Yeah but

Spoiler: SOD Spoiler

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The Hunters thought it was weird that he was in a jungle, and Aboleths have been known to take to other environments such as flying or the Abyss. This makes them weirdos in Aboleth terms.

[Peelee]

So I think Peelee and Grey Wolf didn't notice this was the old thread, but this is not the current thread about the Monster in the Darkness, this one is.

Quite true. Fortunately, I can wave my hands and do magic tricks!

Posts moved to current thread.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

So I think Peelee and Grey Wolf didn't notice this was the old thread, but this is not the current thread about the Monster in the Darkness, this one is.

It's probably not the best indictment of my state of mind, but after a while, all these threads start to blur together. I actually distinctively remember noticing the name of the thread in the subscription email pop-up, and yet nothing in my brain went "that's not the current title" at all.

Grey Wolf

[Squire Doodad]

Quite true. Fortunately, I can wave my hands and do magic tricks!

Ooh! Ooh! Do the one with the bee and the airship!

[Peelee]

Ooh! Ooh! Do the one with the bee and the airship!

Done. An airship full of bees should shortly be appearing over Magrathea.

[Qaanol]

I know there’s been plenty of discussion about MitD being able to speak Common, but has it been mentioned that he is also able to read?

Strip 195, panel 8