afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

[Thurbane]

Are there any non-Evil gods of beggars/begging as a portfolio? Preferably setting neutral, or Greyhawk based.

I found Erbin in the Deities and Demigods web enhancement, but him being Evil really puts a damper how I wanted to use him in my campaign.

I also found Ralishaz, but his portfolio is seems to be luck/fortune/insanity.

I thought there was a god who's class levels were Commoner 20, but I'm having trouble finding him. Not sure if he was associated with beggars or not.

The only god I remember with an NPC class is Imhotep (Expert 20). Maybe that's the one?

Yep, that's the one I was thinking of. Was misremembering Expert 20 as Commoner 20.

And his portfolio (crafts, medicine) isn't really anything to do with begging.

[afroakuma]

Are there any non-Evil gods of beggars/begging as a portfolio? Preferably setting neutral, or Greyhawk based.

Specifically? Not that I can think of... Ilmater and Issek of the Jug are close, but they generally focus on anyone who is suffering or oppressed. There are a couple of Chinese deities that relate to beggars specifically, but I don't believe they were adapted to D&D.

[aj77]

Recently I decided to try and merge the Pathfinder concept of the Four Horsemen daemonic powers with D&D yugoloth canon, for reasons.

I realized that Pestilence fits very well with the Oinoloth, War with the General, and Death with Charon; but I can't think of any yugoloth or related entity that could embody Famine. Any suggestions?

[afroakuma]

Recently I decided to try and merge the Pathfinder concept of the Four Horsemen daemonic powers with D&D yugoloth canon, for reasons.

I realized that Pestilence fits very well with the Oinoloth, War with the General, and Death with Charon; but I can't think of any yugoloth or related entity that could embody Famine. Any suggestions?

Could give it to Bubonix, the architect and master of the Tower of Incarnate Pain on Carceri, which remains incomplete thanks to the constant attacks of the gehreleths. Striving for a satisfaction that will never be attained is very Famine.

[Thurbane]

Recently I decided to try and merge the Pathfinder concept of the Four Horsemen daemonic powers with D&D yugoloth canon, for reasons.

I realized that Pestilence fits very well with the Oinoloth, War with the General, and Death with Charon; but I can't think of any yugoloth or related entity that could embody Famine. Any suggestions?

Famine Spirit or All Consuming Hunger fit the theme, but I'm having trouble tying them to Yugoloths. Maybe if you apply the Bhaalspawn template, or Corrupted by the Abyss + Half-Fiend?

There was a couple of Famine entries in the relevant VC comp, but none are especially Yugoloth related:

https://forums.giantitp.com/showsing...&postcount=109 / https://forums.giantitp.com/showsing...&postcount=110
https://forums.giantitp.com/showsing...&postcount=111
https://forums.giantitp.com/showsing...&postcount=115

[edit] I think I misunderstood the question. [/edit]

[Tzardok]

Found another question that's still waiting for an answer.

Does anyone know a reason why there are no (Half-)Orcs in Ravenloft?

[Bohandas]

Are there any non-Evil gods of beggars/begging as a portfolio? Preferably setting neutral, or Greyhawk based.

I found Erbin in the Deities and Demigods web enhancement, but him being Evil really puts a damper how I wanted to use him in my campaign.

I also found Ralishaz, but his portfolio is seems to be luck/fortune/insanity.

I thought there was a god who's class levels were Commoner 20, but I'm having trouble finding him. Not sure if he was associated with beggars or not.

The neutral godess Taiia (Deities & Demigods pg.203-206) has a mendicant religious order devoted to her. She's beither setting neutral nor greyhawk based though

[mattie_p]

Are there any non-Evil gods of beggars/begging as a portfolio? Preferably setting neutral, or Greyhawk based.

I found Erbin in the Deities and Demigods web enhancement, but him being Evil really puts a damper how I wanted to use him in my campaign.

I also found Ralishaz, but his portfolio is seems to be luck/fortune/insanity.

I thought there was a god who's class levels were Commoner 20, but I'm having trouble finding him. Not sure if he was associated with beggars or not.

I was going to suggest Ralishaz, but he only appears as a beggar. So let me suggest Zodal (Living Greyhawk Gazeteer p189-190). NG lesser god of mercy, hope, and benevolence..

[DragonIceAdept]

What would be a good set of powers for a Thrall of Obox-ob? How about good Obox-ob monsters you'd find on Zionyn?

The only other mention of this kind of thing I could find was that EttDP's Aspect of Obox-ob had a weapon made from a stinger of an extinct race of obyriths.

[afroakuma]

Found another question that's still waiting for an answer.

The Demiplane of Dread does not like orcs. I suspect the Dark Powers dislike the idiom of having a race present which has a long history of conflict with many of the people they have collected - it distorts the tone of their demiplane away from the "you are the monsters" and Gothic horror. There was one orc known to have entered the Demiplane of Dread; he was transformed into an apelike creature in a menagerie.

What would be a good set of powers for a Thrall of Obox-ob? How about good Obox-ob monsters you'd find on Zionyn?

Working on that request, received your message. Operating a bit more slowly, still on steroid brain.

[DragonIceAdept]

Working on that request, received your message. Operating a bit more slowly, still on steroid brain.

Thank you so much! Looking forward to what you write up.

[Thurbane]

The neutral godess Taiia (Deities & Demigods pg.203-206) has a mendicant religious order devoted to her. She's beither setting neutral nor greyhawk based though

Interesting.

I was going to suggest Ralishaz, but he only appears as a beggar. So let me suggest Zodal (Living Greyhawk Gazeteer p189-190). NG lesser god of mercy, hope, and benevolence..

Zodal is probably the best fit so far, thank you.

[Tzardok]

The Demiplane of Dread does not like orcs. I suspect the Dark Powers dislike the idiom of having a race present which has a long history of conflict with many of the people they have collected - it distorts the tone of their demiplane away from the "you are the monsters" and Gothic horror. There was one orc known to have entered the Demiplane of Dread; he was transformed into an apelike creature in a menagerie.:

Huh. Makes you wonder why goblinoids are okay. Maybe because they are a better fit for the dark fairy tale-like world. Also makes you wonder wether something similiar would happen to, I don't know, gnolls.
And lastly, it could have the logical consequence that any orc darklord would stop being an orc very quickly. At least, I don't think it's less likely for an orc to qualify than it is for that illithid elderbrain darklord of Bluetspur or that doppelganger darklord.

[Lapak]

The Demiplane of Dread does not like orcs. I suspect the Dark Powers dislike the idiom of having a race present which has a long history of conflict with many of the people they have collected - it distorts the tone of their demiplane away from the "you are the monsters" and Gothic horror. There was one orc known to have entered the Demiplane of Dread; he was transformed into an apelike creature in a menagerie.

I mean, either this or the Demiplane loves orcs (except for that one it wants to punish) and thus doesn't pull them in to be tormented. Clearly, this means that the Dark Powers are actually just an aspect of Gruumsh.

[Bohandas]

I mean, either this or the Demiplane loves orcs (except for that one it wants to punish) and thus doesn't pull them in to be tormented. Clearly, this means that the Dark Powers are actually just an aspect of Gruumsh.

Ooh! I like this idea.

[Tzardok]

Something that makes me wonder a lot: Sharess is generally accepted to have become an existence independent of Bast, right? She was the Mulhorandi avatar of Bast, but she evolved into a different direction, and when after the Time of Troubles the Mulhorandi and Untheric avatars returned to the planes she had become inconpatible with Bast and became a goddess in her own right.
Why is generally assumed that the same thing didn't happen with Hoar and Assuran/Assur/Ashur? Why is there only Hoar in the planes and not Ashur? And, in the same right, the deaths of the Untheric avatars in the Orcgate Wars had no influence on the Mesopotamian gods on the planes. Why then is Gilgeam treated as a dead god when only his avatar died? At least, I assume that Ao didn't pull the Pharaonic and Mesopotamian gods into the Time of Troubles, when their Untheric/Mulhorandi were already there and more likely more at fault for his anger.

[afroakuma]

Huh. Makes you wonder why goblinoids are okay. Maybe because they are a better fit for the dark fairy tale-like world. Also makes you wonder wether something similiar would happen to, I don't know, gnolls.

Gnolls are also not present in Ravenloft. I suspect they would be transformed into some kind of jackalwere, wolfwere, or hyenawere depending on the domain. It's notable that hobgoblins don't really exist in the plane, nor do bugbears. Ogres do, in a couple of domains, likely because they exhibit nightmarish behavior and cruelty that can serve as an example to others; in general, however, an ogre is both too stupid and not hypocritical enough to become a darklord.

And lastly, it could have the logical consequence that any orc darklord would stop being an orc very quickly. At least, I don't think it's less likely for an orc to qualify than it is for that illithid elderbrain darklord of Bluetspur or that doppelganger darklord.

It would be possible for an orc to become a darklord; it's likely the Dark Powers would make travellers forget the exact nature of the darklord on crossing the borders, though. The challenge with the usually evil races (orcs, drow, duergar etc.) is that part of the criteria for becoming a darklord is that you have some kind of hangup about your evil deeds. Drow, by and large, just plain don't. Duergar and orcs do lots of hostile and unpleasant things, but they're generally pretty conventional and/or actively sanctioned by their respective deities. I once pitched an orc darklord who was an adopted foundling of a dwarf community and betrayed them; his domain was populated entirely with dwarves and he was the only orc.

Something that makes me wonder a lot: Sharess is generally accepted to have become an existence independent of Bast, right? She was the Mulhorandi avatar of Bast, but she evolved into a different direction, and when after the Time of Troubles the Mulhorandi and Untheric avatars returned to the planes she had become inconpatible with Bast and became a goddess in her own right.

That's my pitch; a lot of the setting materials treat them as still being the same goddess, but each has attributes the other does not.

Why is generally assumed that the same thing didn't happen with Hoar and Assuran/Assur/Ashur? Why is there only Hoar in the planes and not Ashur?

Assuran was a minor deity of equally minor scope. The fact that he's not named and associated with the Babylonian pantheon proper suggests that he went "all-in" on his bid to migrate his power base to Toril. He wasn't the only one.

And, in the same right, the deaths of the Untheric avatars in the Orcgate Wars had no influence on the Mesopotamian gods on the planes. Why then is Gilgeam treated as a dead god when only his avatar died?

Gilgeam wasn't a god anywhere else, only as part of the Untheric pantheon. He was destroyed by Tiamat during the Time of Troubles, which ended him for good.

At least, I assume that Ao didn't pull the Pharaonic and Mesopotamian gods into the Time of Troubles, when their Untheric/Mulhorandi were already there and more likely more at fault for his anger.

Anyone who didn't have a purely Torilian counterpart would have gotten yanked. He took all the racial deities despite their multi-world presences.

[aj77]

What is the deal (origin, purpose, horrible secrets) with the Garden in Avernus?

[Bohandas]

What does Lord Ao look like?

(Because I had initially imagined him as a generic skyfather until I started reading Journey to the West and noticed that all the dragon kings seem to have the surname Ao, so now I'm not sure)

[enderlord99]

Yeah, you're about to be disappointed. Messing with preincarnate souls is a smitin'.

Nothing. Odivias are undead. A positive energy based spell cast on an odivia egg would kill it.

Okay, fair. What I was really trying to ask was more... "what are odivia undead of" To put it another way (similar to the first) what would happen if you destroyed an odivia and then cast Raise Dead or Resurrection on the remains? Obviously, you wouldn't bring back the odivia: you'd need Create (Greater?) Undead for that... but it is a corpse, possibly of the "intact" variety though likely not. So... when you bring "back" to life something that was never truly alive, what happens? Presumably, you couldn't use an odvia's remains to bring back the person from whose head the odivia once hatched, any more than you could resurrect a caterpillar from a dead wasp. So, what would you get instead?

[Tzardok]

That's a bit like casting Resurrection on a Nightshadow's corpse. I would assume that the spell would fail as what you are trying to raise never was alive.

[enderlord99]

That's a bit like casting Resurrection on a Nightshadow's corpse. I would assume that the spell would fail as what you are trying to raise never was alive.

Don't nightshades dissipate into nothing when they're destroyed, thus leaving no corpse to attempt it with in the first place?

If nightshades leave a corpse but attempts to rez it fizzle, then it would make sense for the same to happen with odivia... but that's the boring answer!

[Tzardok]

I don't think the description says that. Let me take a look... No, nothing about that in the Monster Manual.

And of course it's the boring answer; it's the sensible answer. I know you.

[afroakuma]

What does Lord Ao look like?

Ageless, enormous, wears a robe that reflects the cosmos itself. The description from his only appearance has him take a form: "12 feet (3.6 m) tall, ageless (neither young nor old), with a visage that was not pleasant yet wasn't unpleasant, because it didn't have any remarkable features. He had a white beard and hair, and wore a black robe dotted by millions of stars and moons, arranged in a not-quite-perceptible pattern but which had a beautiful and harmonious feel."

Okay, fair. What I was really trying to ask was more... "what are odivia undead of"

Nothing. They're natively creatures of negative energy, not animated corpses of some prior living thing.

To put it another way (similar to the first) what would happen if you destroyed an odivia and then cast Raise Dead or Resurrection on the remains?

Nothing. Boring, I know, but that's the answer.

[Bohandas]

Ageless, enormous, wears a robe that reflects the cosmos itself. The description from his only appearance has him take a form: "12 feet (3.6 m) tall, ageless (neither young nor old), with a visage that was not pleasant yet wasn't unpleasant, because it didn't have any remarkable features. He had a white beard and hair, and wore a black robe dotted by millions of stars and moons, arranged in a not-quite-perceptible pattern but which had a beautiful and harmonious feel."

So then more-or-less humanoid

Nothing. They're natively creatures of negative energy, not animated corpses of some prior living thing.

Shouldn't that make them outsiders like the xeg-yi?

[Thurbane]

Me again, looking for a FR to Greyhawk deity conversion.

Who is the best Greyhawk stand in for Tyr? Heironeous doesn't feel quite right to me.

I mean, I get that FR Tyr is based on Norse Tyr (to a degree), but Norse deities don't really fit in with my Greyhawk game either.

[enderlord99]

Shouldn't that make them outsiders like the xeg-yi?

Nah.

Vermin, maybe almost, but they're definitely undead.

[Bohandas]

Don't nightshades dissipate into nothing when they're destroyed, thus leaving no corpse to attempt it with in the first place?

If nightshades leave a corpse but attempts to rez it fizzle, then it would make sense for the same to happen with odivia... but that's the boring answer!

Actually, according to Dragon Magazine issue 336 Nightshades come from dead fiends that are exposed to negative energy

[Khedrac]

Me again, looking for a FR to Greyhawk deity conversion.

Who is the best Greyhawk stand in for Tyr? Heironeous doesn't feel quite right to me.

I mean, I get that FR Tyr is based on Norse Tyr (to a degree), but Norse deities don't really fit in with my Greyhawk game either.

It depends what aspect of Tyr you want to mirror.

The two Greyhawk gods of Justice are Heironeous and Mayaheine, but I think the Shield Maiden is a worse fit than the Archpaladin.

For me, the FR portrayal of Tyr is not very related to the mythological figure (not the least because he is divorced from most of his origins) so I think Heironeous not a bad fit.

If you could say what's wrong about Heironeous and what you are looking for I/we may be able to come up with a better choice for you.

[afroakuma]

So then more-or-less humanoid

He can choose to be, yes. He's not limited to any particular form.

Shouldn't that make them outsiders like the xeg-yi?

They're not physical embodiments of negative energy; they're just animated by it. They still have a body made of flesh which is parasitized from the victim who got implanted with the egg, and the death of said victim is necessary for the odivia to arise.

Me again, looking for a FR to Greyhawk deity conversion.

Who is the best Greyhawk stand in for Tyr? Heironeous doesn't feel quite right to me.

I mean, I get that FR Tyr is based on Norse Tyr (to a degree), but Norse deities don't really fit in with my Greyhawk game either.

Well... you could go with Allitur, the god of ethics; in Tyr's role as a guarantor of contracts and oaths, Allitur is a solid fit. St. Cuthbert would be the other alternative.