The Mandalorian Season 2

[Hopeless]

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Firstly they could reveal that she lost in battle and to redeem herself she must win it back through honourable combat thereby explaining why Sabine could give it to her and Din can't?

I don't have a problem with the bad cg and the fight was a bit odd but not unusual given they were fighting a force user so Luke trained by Yoda to be able to shrug off the blaster bolts he doesn't block isn't a problem.

Now I'm imagining Din finds Boba and they talk about the Darksaber deciding to have an arm wrestling match for it so Din can tell Bo he has it now so Boba can teach the Princess just how wrong she is!

[Wraith]

Spoiler: Why the team didn't leave the Ship

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Point to remember: Din promised the ship to Bo-Katan as reward for helping him rescue Grogu. In the bar where Boba fights the other Night Owl, Din told her that he knew where Gideon's Light Cruiser was, and that she could have it as a powerful tool in getting back control of Mandalore when they were done. Her two conditions were that she got the Ship and the Dark Saber, and the latter had just screwed up because no one told Din about the line of succession beforehand.

That's why they didn't abandon ship and got pinned on the bridge by the Dark Troopers; keeping the ship was part of the plan to restore Bo-Katan to the throne, and without it she was in a significantly weaker position. Arguably there may have been some element of greed on her part - she had already lost the Saber and didn't want to give up her only 'consolation prize' too, and then suddenly it was too late and there were Troopers at the door.

As for what to do about the Saber....

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I can think of a couple of ways in which Din can legitimately get rid of the the Saber. The one I'd like to see would be him hosting the Hunger Games - he goes to Mandalore, sends out a call to anyone who thinks they deserve to be the next monarch, and then they engage in a Mortal Kombat-style tournament where the winner gets to keep the Saber as witnessed by all other assembled Mandalorians.
He doesn't want the thing, but he can easily make up some nonsense about him not being the rightful heir/not having been born on Mandalore/whatever it takes and establishing a pretextual 'good story' about how he might not be worthy, and thus it's only "right" for Mandalorians to compete for it rather than it once again be stolen or fall into the hands of pretenders like Maul or Gideon.

It'd be a great way to introduce more Mandalorian sects and explore what it means to be a Child of the Watch or a Night Owl in comparison. It'd also be a great way to bring the Armourer back as a mentor and/or critic to Din, brought out of hiding by the announcement and telling him how The Way forced him to compete or otherwise dispensing wisdom about how The Way involved bringing other Mandalorians together, as well as give Din a reason to realise that he DOES want the Saber and thus compete himself, earning Bo-Katan's respect and/or enmity along the way.

If nothing else, we'd get to see Mandalorians fighting on Mandalore, with everything that entails.

[Darzil]

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Can I suggest that one reason they didn’t use the escape pods might be that they were in deep space, Boba had already left, and they would be leaving themselves helpless with the only ship in the vicinity in their enemy’s hands?

[Dr.Samurai]

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I don't think tying Grogu to Luke means he has to die later on at the temple. There can be many reasons that Grogu is not there. Also, I don't think Grogu has mastered the Force in the way SapphireGuard seems to think. We are told he is naturally gifted (and the fact that some of his power is simply biological is shown in that Moff Gideon wants to use him specifically as a blood donor), and both Ahsoka and Luke say he needs training. Yes, he was trained by many masters, but I'm sure the younglings are also trained by many masters and they are not jedi masters just yet. (Also, you would think that Grogu could fend for himself if he was really suitably trained and gifted as is being suggested.)

I'm curious where the show will go now. I think the story is a wrap for now between Din and Grogu. He saw a child that needed help just as he needed help when the Mandalorians saved him. Din belongs with the Mandalorians, and Grogu belongs with the Jedi and Din has made that happen.

I don't know the Bo-Katan stuff and the stuff about Mandalore. If Din finds out that the Empire is returning and hunting Jedi, maybe he will try to bring Mandalorians together to oppose the new rising threat, maybe teaming up with Boba's new criminal enterprise?

Seeing Luke was great. I would love for them to recast him and bring him back every now and then since we never got to see what he was like after RotJ, except as a defeated has-been spilling green milk all over himself. Would be cool to see him fighting alongside Ahsoka. But should be a re-cast. I like that it was Mark Hamill's image as this reveal, but the CGI is bad. Just recast.

[Darzil]

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Kenobi, Yoda, Jarrus, Tano, whatever the name of the guy from Fallen Order is. That's already five. The OT establishes Luke as the last of the Jedi, the more survivor you create, the more meaningless that becomes.

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Well, by the time Luke was the Last of the Jedi (Return of the Jedi), Kenobi was dead, Yoda was dead, Jarrus was dead, Tano (not a Jedi) was missing for years and had only been seen by Ezra since duelling Vader. Ezra was missing in action having been last seen going into hyperspace in a damaged ship open to atmosphere in the company of creatures known for destroying ships. Grogu seems to have survived by cutting off from the force, hence not being detectable. Can't recall the Fallen Order stuff either.

[dehro]

well.. they went out with a bang.
this was a cool episode to watch.
it will be interesting to see where they go from there

[druid91]

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Narratively, having random Mandalorian go toe-to-toe with Boba Fett shows that even random no-name Mandalorians are not people to be trifled with. That gives her character weight without taking away anything from Fett.

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I think the primary issue is let's compare Fett's performance Here to his performance in that fight. Boba Fett is a Bounty Hunter yes, not a warrior. But he's a ridiculously good fighter who even without his armor was Taking down stormtroopers left and right with a stick.

Now then suddenly fighting this person who's literally nothing more than Bo Katan's nameless sidekick and she's not only holding her own but actually overpowering him. Combined with him basically disappearing for the rest of the episode.... it definitely does take some weight away from him. And while I can understand why, what with them wanting to have Fett go off into his own show, it still comes as something of a letdown.

[Peelee]

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I think the primary issue is let's compare Fett's performance Here to his performance in that fight. Boba Fett is a Bounty Hunter yes, not a warrior. But he's a ridiculously good fighter who even without his armor was Taking down stormtroopers left and right with a stick.

Now then suddenly fighting this person who's literally nothing more than Bo Katan's nameless sidekick and she's not only holding her own but actually overpowering him. Combined with him basically disappearing for the rest of the episode.... it definitely does take some weight away from him. And while I can understand why, what with them wanting to have Fett go off into his own show, it still comes as something of a letdown.

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It only takes weight away from him if you believe that Fett should be the be-all, end-all of fighting prowess. He's not. Believing he is is not supported by anything (compare his performance in the RotJ fight on Jabba's sail barge). He is great against non-Mandalorians. He is, as it turns out, average against Mandalorians.

If you think that fight takes anything away from Fett, that's on you. The narrative clearly doesn't present it that way. It presents all Mandalorians as incredibly skilled, remarkable combatants. From as early as the pilot.

[Fyraltari]

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It only takes weight away from him if you brought that Fett should be the be-all, end-all of fighting prowess. He's not. Believing he is is not supported by anything (compare his perfoanve in the RotJ fight). He is great against non-Mandalorians. He is, as it turns out, average against Mandalorians.

If you think that fight takes anything away from Fett, that's on you. The narrative clearly doesn't present it that way. It presents all Mandalorians as incredibly skilled, remarkable combatants. From as early as the pilot.

You know what'd be funny? A story with a warrior culture, except they're not even good fighters. Like they do all the usual manlier-than-you stuff, with everybody being part of the military, people who don't want to be warriors are looked down upon, they measure their worth by th emight of the ennemies they've bested, the leader is the toughest of the lot, all that. But everytime they fight against other people, they lose. Even against random civilians.

[Peelee]

You know what'd be funny? A story with a warrior culture, except they're not even good fighters. Like they do all the usual manlier-than-you stuff, with everybody being part of the military, people who don't want to be warriors are looked down upon, they measure their worth by th emight of the ennemies they've bested, the leader is the toughest of the lot, all that. But everytime they fight against other people, they lose. Even against random civilians.

Oh, like Worf!

[druid91]

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It only takes weight away from him if you believe that Fett should be the be-all, end-all of fighting prowess. He's not. Believing he is is not supported by anything (compare his performance in the RotJ fight on Jabba's sail barge). He is great against non-Mandalorians. He is, as it turns out, average against Mandalorians.

If you think that fight takes anything away from Fett, that's on you. The narrative clearly doesn't present it that way. It presents all Mandalorians as incredibly skilled, remarkable combatants. From as early as the pilot.

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That was not average. That was her throwing him around and him only barely managing to keep up, after calling him a sidekick who was unworthy of his armor. Compare the dude who could lift up stormtroopers in full armor one handed from just a few episodes ago, getting physically overpowered by someone who's smaller than him.

Then, not only does he take no major part in the remainder of the episode, but even in the reveal for his own show Fennec does most of the fighting for him. To say that isn't a step down for the guy is kind of willingly ignoring what happened.

[Peelee]

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That was not average. That was her throwing him around and him only barely managing to keep up

What you describe was not in the scene as I saw it.

[Cikomyr2]

You know what'd be funny? A story with a warrior culture, except they're not even good fighters. Like they do all the usual manlier-than-you stuff, with everybody being part of the military, people who don't want to be warriors are looked down upon, they measure their worth by th emight of the ennemies they've bested, the leader is the toughest of the lot, all that. But everytime they fight against other people, they lose. Even against random civilians.

Toxic Masculinity: the Movie

[Kitten Champion]

That pretty much describes the Kazon from Voyager. Less competent but for some reason also smugger Klingons.

[dehro]

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I think the primary issue is let's compare Fett's performance Here to his performance in that fight. Boba Fett is a Bounty Hunter yes, not a warrior. But he's a ridiculously good fighter who even without his armor was Taking down stormtroopers left and right with a stick.

Now then suddenly fighting this person who's literally nothing more than Bo Katan's nameless sidekick and she's not only holding her own but actually overpowering him. Combined with him basically disappearing for the rest of the episode.... it definitely does take some weight away from him. And while I can understand why, what with them wanting to have Fett go off into his own show, it still comes as something of a letdown.

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Bo Katan being who she is in terms of personal power and role in mandalorian society, I would argue that probably her nameless sidekick/bodyguard is at the very least an elite level mandalorian fighter in their prime... how old is Boba Fett now?
... and Fett is absolutely above average and the bomb against stormtroopers, but ultimately, stormtroopers are redshirts... and Fett is probably Worf.

[Cikomyr2]

So, meh. The episode and season finale was okay. I felt there was missing gravitas at time. I don't care for the thousand nit-picky crap people point out when they critique a story, but I care about a properly structured story.

The pacing was a bit of a mess, and I am unsure what could be considered a climax in the episode, and what's a proper resolution. There was no real ticking clock, no real worry. The fights felt like a series of unidirectional stomping where one side crush the other, and it went back and forth a few times instead of having any real struggle on display, with the exception of Mando's solo fights. These were interesting.

Edit : also I felt the two deepfakes at the end were a mixed bag. One was clearly CGI, but the other was fantastic. I really felt the original actor was in his role when he talked to Grogoo

[JoshL]

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I'm curious where the show will go now. I think the story is a wrap for now between Din and Grogu. He saw a child that needed help just as he needed help when the Mandalorians saved him. Din belongs with the Mandalorians, and Grogu belongs with the Jedi and Din has made that happen.

Spoiler: Speculation Time!

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If I had to put money on it, S3 will be parallel stories; Din realizing that Mandalore society was not the fit for him that he thought it would be, Grogu realizing that the Jedi way was not right for him (I expected a little darkside after the way he handled the guards). The two reconnect and forge a path together, unencumbered by the baggage of their past. This becomes a brick in the wall leading Luke to think maybe the Jedi order wasn't the be-all he thought it was (leading to the bitterness in TLJ, and Rey's eventual realization to not throw the baby out with the bathwater in saving the Jedi Texts). Any way it happens, S3 is going to be about change and growth, and it's going to divide the fandom because not everyone likes that. Just spitballing here; this is also why Disney isn't hiring me to write these stories, but I know my folklore

[Rakaydos]

Oh, like Worf!

I was thinking Larry Niven's "Kzinti Patriarchy." Who's battle plans basically start and end with "scream and leap."

[Hands_Of_Blue]

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I was a little disappointed with this episode. I mean, Luke is awesome and watching him tear through Dark Troopers was cool, and even though it was foreshadowed episodes ago, it still felt like a deus ex machina. Made even worse by Mando and all his friends on the bridge spending about ten minutes just watching Luke on the security cams win the entire fight for them. Mando has beskar armor and a lightsaber, and as we saw with Luke, lightsabers go right through Dark Troopers. Mando and his badass buddies should have been able to take on a least a couple of Dark Troopers. Give them some agency at the end of the episode.

Like others in this thread, I too had the thought of "Does this mean Grogu is gonna get killed by Kylo?"

Also what was with the bit of R2 and Grogu mumbling incoherently at each other for about a minute while we got silent reaction shots of Luke and Mando? Why did that go on for so long?

[Hopeless]

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I'm wondering if Din discovers he's force sensitive leading to the reveal he's a direct descendant of the creator of the Dark Saber so he's actually the heir to the throne and unlike Bo Katan was deliberately rescued from that raid that was orchestrated to give the Death Watch much needed PR

It sounds like the Book of Boba might be Mandalorian Season 3, but if he isn't Mandalorian that shouldn't be the case shouldn't it?

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Yes I thought they were promoting that agenda with that fight, but we don't know enough about Sasha Banks character to know for sure.

What I'd like to see is Din learning about the Dark Saber and having survived multiple attacks by those who aren't interested in playing fair to secure that artefact he decides to look for more information on the Dark Saber, but given Ahsoka and Luke are hardly going to be that easy to find why not head back to Tython as that appeared important to the Jedi so perhaps there's something there that can help.

I know thats unlikely but I suspect Grogu won't be gone for very long!

[Peelee]

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I'm wondering if Din discovers he's force sensitive

God I hope not.

It sounds like the Book of Boba might be Mandalorian Season 3, but if he isn't Mandalorian that shouldn't be the case shouldn't it?

It appears that they are most likely going to be two different shows, according to an unofficial statement from an artist at Lucasfilm.

[Mando Knight]

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I'm wondering if Din discovers he's force sensitive leading to the reveal he's a direct descendant of the creator of the Dark Saber so he's actually the heir to the throne and unlike Bo Katan was deliberately rescued from that raid that was orchestrated to give the Death Watch much needed PR

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A foundling ending up being the scion of a long-lost branch of Clan Vizsla feels like a different genre than The Mandalorian has been going for.

[Hopeless]

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A foundling ending up being the scion of a long-lost branch of Clan Vizsla feels like a different genre than The Mandalorian has been going for.

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But would explain why when he went back for the Child they came out in full force to help him!

We still don't know what happened to them, nor why the Armorer stayed behind like she did.

Were they killed or did they break the Creed when they broke cover to help him?

That will be interesting to find out, has that been addressed as they have the bad habit of leaving such explanations after the episode and not in the episode in the case of the bad joke this season or whether the Magistrate was Dathomiran something if true should have been mentioned by Ashoka and not left out

I think there's more going on than has been revealed, but until Season 3 all I can do is speculate, but make sure its not spoilers as thats all it is speculation

[Peelee]

But would explain why when he went back for the Child they came out in full force to help him!

They explained that in that very episode - that's who they are as Mandalorians. "This is the way."

[Fyraltari]

I'm wondering if Din discovers he's force sensitive leading to the reveal he's a direct descendant of the creator of the Dark Saber

According to Rebels, the Mandalorians did not create the Darksaber. they stole it from the Jedi.

[Peelee]

According to Rebels, the Mandalorians did not create the Darksaber. they stole it from the Jedi.

IIRC Rebels had the same story - there was a Mandalorian Jedi who created it, and then when he died, the Mandalorians stole it from the Jedi archives/vaults/dead-jedi-lightsaber-repository.

Though also in Rebels,

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Bo Katan had no problem taking the damn thing from Sabine.

[Sapphire Guard]

Spoiler: Mando

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I did read a funny theory online where Mando finds out it was stolen from the Jedi and goes 'huh, so this is Jedi artifact, eh? Mandalore has no right to this at all.' and gives it to Luke. Bo Katan is of course furious but can't do a thing about it.

[Fyraltari]

IIRC Rebels had the same story - there was a Mandalorian Jedi who created it, and then when he died, the Mandalorians stole it from the Jedi archives/vaults/dead-jedi-lightsaber-repository.

Huh, you're right.

Though also in Rebels,

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Bo Katan had no problem taking the damn thing from Sabine.

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Yup, and given that Din's group wasn't following her, we can guess that she didn't manage to unite the Mandalorain people under her banner. Which might be why she insists on doing it properly, now, 8 years later.

[Peelee]

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Yup, and given that Din's group wasn't following her, we can guess that she didn't manage to unite the Mandalorain people under her banner. Which might be why she insists on doing it properly, now, 8 years later.

Fair point.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Cikomyr2
There was no real ticking clock, no real worry.

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I felt like a horde of armored murderbots marching towards the bridge was a bit of a ticking clock, since the robots were demonstrably resistant to blaster fire, and there was only one darksaber to go around.

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As for Bo-Katan wanting to take the darksaber through ritual combat, I was thinking along the same lines as Fyraltari. The political situation has shifted on Mandalore (or what's left of it), and Bo-Katan's evident failure to unite the Mandalorians several years earlier may have required her to adhere more closely, and visibly, to the old traditions.