OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

[homersolo]

It's a door they already cleared out though

Except MITD marked some doors as cleared that were not.

[Segev]

So raise your hand if you think they just accidentally led them to the right door by a horrible accident.

We don't know that. Remeber what the MitD has been up to. At the very least they may have exposed what he's been doing.

Law of Narrative Tension suggests the worst possible outcome: this will be the dungeon that the bad guys need.

Law of averages suggests it could be one they've cleared, or it could be one they've not cleared, but probably isn't the one they need.

Law of Plot Development requires that it not be one they've cleared, so that they learn something new and have to at least start searching them all all over again.

My bet is on "not the one they need" but "not one they've cleared" in order to re-start the "timer" on their search, but to make sure they are searching. (An interesting thing about the false markings is that they don't necessarily stop them from finding the right door, either. If one of the unmarked ones they pick was the right one....)

No clue if they'll even think to blame the Monster in the Dark. Remember, they think he's stupid as well as naive.

[Calavera]

Panel 2 should say "loaded fer bear" not "loaded ta bear".

[Metastachydium]

Nope, Durkon is the one who makes the call to go into the ground instead of a door. She just added in opening a few extra doors on top.

Y'see, one of the nice things about this solution would be that the two dwarves contribute to it in equal measure (luring Team Evil away from the Order and sinking into the rock is Durkon's idea; setting up the shell game (i.e. opening doors and then closing one) is Minrah's).
On an unrelated note: I absolutely love how the strip shows us that Redcloak is still the good old smart one he used to be, as well as how it proves that Jirix is indeed one of the most Evil characters in the whole comic: Xykon calls him a fun guy and that's telling.

[GregTD]

Allow me to be one of many to predict they're going to find out that they did not clear this level, and thus start to discover the MitD's trick.

Of course, the best thing for our heroes would be for them to get seriously roughted up, come out, and THEN get attacked by TOofS

[GregTD]

So raise your hand if you think they just accidentally led them to the right door by a horrible accident.

It's possible. It would certainly speed up the story line.

I think as a minimum it will lead them to a door that has NOT been cleared

...

Okay. So.

Remember this scene from almost 200 strips ago?

They had come out of a green door, having cleared that dungeon, with a red door and then yellow door stage-left of it, which the Monster in the Darkness off a number of doors as being already cleared, with the red one being covered by his speech bubble but clearly in range. They are also all three ground-level doors.

...three of the doors we see this time?

Stage-left-to-right: Yellow, Red, Green, yellow and red clearly marked off, green unclear.

I think that's in the same general area, then.

The two doors to the left of the double door are both yellow.

So this isn't the same place

[understatement]

First: simple but great work by Durkon and Minrah. They continue to delight and impress me as a pair, although I'm worried on how Roy's going to receive their little venture.

Second: Nice to see the guy who did the shell game in the first place try to outbuff it as well, and nearly succeeding before Xykon - once again - steamrolls over him.

Third: Glad to see Oona and RC get along, at least.

I'm glad they didn't bring Jirix; it would've never stopped the "jirix miraculously becomes 17th level and seals the rifts" barrage if he did.

ETA: I'm 90% sure this door hasn't been cleared, since within the comic they state "they already cleared it out." Dramatic irony would be in full-effect here.

[Silly Name]

Xykon is super powerful but his achilles' heel is his low Wisdom score. But doesn't he need a high int score to be a lich?

You need to be a powerful spellcaster (11th level or higher under 3rd edition rules, IIRC), but Xykon is a Sorcerer - a class whose magic power scales off the Charisma stat. Which is why Xykon has such a strong personality, is actually a good talker when he wants to and manages to pull off both being terrifying and funny, as called by the situation or how he decides to present himself.

Mind you, Xykon certainly isn't dumb (is "power is power" speech is good evidence that he has a pretty good grasp of deeper and complex subjects), but he tends to rush into things and do what he feels is the right course of action, not think deeply and long about it. And, of course, it's even better if the right way is the fun way!

Xykon's greatest tactical advantage is his great magic power, and he knows it. That's why he rarely bothers with complex plans, because in his experience most of his problems can be solved by applying ridicolous amounts of violence.

[Metastachydium]

I'm glad they didn't bring Jirix; it would've never stopped the "jirix miraculously becomes 17th level and seals the rifts" barrage if he did.

But even Xykon seems to like that idea (as well as the notion that Redcloak should be ditched)!

Third: Glad to see Oona and RC get along, at least.

Yeah, I noticed that one too. This might be the very first comment of genuine appreciation Oona ever gets from Redcloak on panel (the thing with „unorthodox” was a bit short of enthusiastic).

[HeeJay]

A reminder:

"Monster Hollow important to bugbear clan. Hunt a little, tame a little. Wait, then monsters come back, start all over."

1039 Multiple Choicel

Depending on how quick the monsters usually come back, Team Evil may not find anything amiss.

[silversaraph]

This is going to be the correct gate, and they are going to be in trouble. Why? MitD is not with them! He was the only one to be totally unscratched in 1040. Who knows how vital he's been in clearing out monsters (possibly nonviolently, but still).

Really looking forward to see what kind of monsters can trounce Team Evil.

[GooeyChewie]

That's definitely a door they haven't checked yet. Your lampshade is ready, Mr. Xykon.

I doubt this door leads to the gate. From a narrative point of view I think finding the gate right now would force the endgame too soon. I do think Redcloak and Xykon will realize that extra marks are appearing, but that they won't suspect MitD because they constantly underestimate his intelligence.

[Fyraltari]

'e'd agree
Means "he would agree" right?

Also, I am the only impressed that two dwarves walking disturbs the rock enough for Oona to recognize tracks and correctly attribute them to their respective owners but magically shifting the rock around their bodies doesn't even leave ebough a disturbance to warrant a "that's odd".

Also, also, I assume the spell takes care of their breathing.

Also, also, also, if this is door marked by the MitD then Team Evil is going to figure out that Redcloak was right when they stumble into the first monster rather than clear the whole thing.

[Metastachydium]

This is going to be the correct gate, and they are going to be in trouble. Why? MitD is not with them! He was the only one to be totally unscratched in 1040.

Um, while there's not much we know of that could pose a realistic threat to MitD, how do you know that?

[Fyraltari]

Um, while there's not much we know of that could pose a realistic threat to MitD, how do you know that?

Depends if you consider that damage to the MitD is expressed as damage to his umbrella.

[Metastachydium]

Depends if you consider that damage to the MitD is expressed as damage to his umbrella.

That's a reasonable suggestion, but also a difficult one to prove.

[Peelee]

'e'd agree
Means "he would agree" right?

Yep.

Also, I am the only impressed that two dwarves walking disturbs the rock enough for Oona to recognize tracks and correctly attribute them to their respective owners

That's the 3.5 tracking skill, baby!

but magically shifting the rock around their bodies doesn't even leave ebough a disturbance to warrant a "that's odd".

That's magic, baby!

[Metastachydium]

(A curious little detail: on page no. 2, panel no. 1 Redcloak refers to Gobbotopia City as Azure City for some reason.)

[Crusher]

Nope, Durkon is the one who makes the call to go into the ground instead of a door. She just added in opening a few extra doors on top.

Pretty good strategizing for a pair of characters who probably had INT as a dump stat.

[The MunchKING]

(A curious little detail: on page no. 2, panel no. 1 Redcloak refers to Gobbotopia City as Azure City for some reason.)

Jinx was a second cleric even before the rebranding.

[mjasghar]

Oh dear I think MitD painting the door will either be found out.
Or it will backfire and this is the door they needed but were tricked out of
Or it’s one they have visited before and they figure something out about the dungeons

[Frozenstep]

Brilliant move. Team Evil is probably pursuing full speed, they might not be taking their usual precaution buffs, and there's a good chance they'll walk right into a fight they weren't prepared for. Might drain more resources then expected.

On top of that, they might just think that it was the order of the stick that painted the doors, not MITD.

[Enero Irontoad]

Ha, I read it too quickly the first time and didn't even notice that the dwarves actually did hide outside until the second time I went through it.

[Peelee]

On top of that, they might just think that it was the order of the stick that painted the doors, not MITD.

The Order is completely unaware of the markers being falsified. Further, how would they have gotten there? They ended their Wind Walk on a ledge just a few minutes ago.

[Shale]

(An interesting thing about the false markings is that they don't necessarily stop them from finding the right door, either. If one of the unmarked ones they pick was the right one....)

Hell, if it turns out that the doors really are a bluff somehow (the real gate is either elsewhere or hidden in the rock but not accessible through a doorway) then forcing them to go back and recheck all the crossed-off doors would be the best possible outcome for delay.

[Metastachydium]

Jirix was a second cleric even before the rebranding.

Yes he was (and he probably spent more time as Redcloak's chief lieutenant in occupied Azure City than he did as prime minister), but that's beside the point. Redcloak just strikes me as the kind of guy who would pay attention not to use that name when talking about that city.

The Order is completely unaware of the markers being falsified. Further, how would they have gotten there? They ended their Wind Walk on a ledge just a few minutes ago.

To be fair, Team Evil does not know when exactly the Order arrived to the Tomb.

[locksmith of lo]

this is sooooo good!

and it is "foray" not "forray" third panel...

[Peelee]

Yes he was (and he probably spent more time as Redcloak's chief lieutenant in occupied Azure City than he did as prime minister), but that's beside the point. Redcloak just strikes me as the kind of guy who would pay attention not to use that name when talking about that city.

Except maybe to the one guy who would level it if things don't work out, provided he remembers it. Sure, big X probably does, but no need to remind him anyway just in case.

To be fair, Team Evil does not know when exactly the Order arrived to the Tomb.

Ah, I'd misread that as "the order may have done it" instead of "they might think the order may have done it." My bad.

[Metastachydium]

Except maybe to the one guy who would level it if things don't work out, provided he remembers it. Sure, big X probably does, but no need to remind him anyway just in case.

If he wishes to achieve that through reminding Xykon the city exists and they left the hobgoblins there, I'd say he's not really good at this.

[Peelee]

If he wishes to achieve that through reminding Xykon the city exists and they left the hobgoblins there, I'd say he's not really good at this.

People can be bad at things.