Illithid fossils?

[Cyclone231]

Are there any illithids whose skeletons do not resemble their base form to such an extent that it just looks like a malformed human/roper/reptiloid skeleton?

Edit for Clarity:
The main idea is that in this setting, there was an ancient epoch where the world was ruled by the illithids (arcane illithids, not psionic illithids, so they died from overpopulation). While there are still a handful of illithids, most people don't know what an actual illithid is - so when they find the fossils of illithids, they ascribe them some mythological properties, creating a mythic, ancient race of god men or monsters (depending on the culture in question).

[martyboy74]

Um...

That's what they are.


Alright, probably not in the sense of 'malformed' he meant, but it's still true...

[RandomNPC]

templated illithids.

also, homebrews.

[Kaelik]

Illithids don't have skeletons.

[StickMan]

Illithids don't have skeletons.

There is a plethora of pictures that disagree with you. There are alot of pictures of Gith with Illithid sculls as trophies. First one I can think of is the from the Psiconics handbook Illithid Slayer class.

[Yuki Akuma]

Illithids don't have skeletons.

Illithids are mutated humanoids between around 4 to 6 feet with warm blood (mainly humans).

Oh yes, they do.

[martyboy74]

To the OP:

LoM (Lords of Madness) has an entire chapter on Illithids, their culture, their biology, their origin, and how they're 'born'.

The birth, which is what is important here, goes like this:
1. Illlithids capture humanoid/roper.
2. Illithids take the surviving tadpole out the the elder brain's pool.
3. Illithids place said tapdole into the ear of said humanoid/roper.
4. Tadpole wriggles into subject's brain, and eats it, rapidly growing until it fills the skull.
5. Subject grows facial tentacles, and turns...whatever color illithids are.
6. Subject=Illithid.

The process is called ceremorphosis.

[SurlySeraph]

If you need a fossil that's clearly recognizable as an illithid, make it a naturally mummified one. Have the party find it either in a desert or mountaintop (where low humidity slows decomposition) or underwater in tar or a peat bog.

Have them find 2 or 3 partly shriveled, mummified illithids. Then when they start picking up the next one... undead illithid.

[Clementx]

Gaunt, flattened, and jawless skeletons suggest illithids, or well-mutilated humans. Like most intelligent creatures, the fossils are going to be behavioral more than anatomical. A cluster of skulls with bore holes in them along with the mysterious skull is much more likely to register as, "Boy, I am glad this thing is dead".

[Cyclone231]

If you need a fossil that's clearly recognizable as an illithid, make it a naturally mummified one. Have the party find it either in a desert or mountaintop (where low humidity slows decomposition) or underwater in tar or a peat bog.

Have them find 2 or 3 partly shriveled, mummified illithids. Then when they start picking up the next one... undead illithid.

That's a good idea.

However... I'm sort of looking for an aggregate cultural thing, rather than a specific one-time-only thing here.

The main idea is that in this setting, there was an ancient epoch where the world was ruled by the illithids (arcane illithids, not psionic illithids, so they died from overpopulation). While there are still a handful of illithids, most people don't know what an actual illithid is - so when they find the fossils of illithids, they ascribe them some mythological properties, creating a mythic, ancient race of god men or monsters (depending on the culture in question).

[AslanCross]

Remember that dead illithids have their brains extracted upon death to be thrown into the Elder Brain's pool, so their skulls are likely to have holes as well.

[Jack Mann]

To the OP:

LoM (Lords of Madness) has an entire chapter on Illithids, their culture, their biology, their origin, and how they're 'born'.

The birth, which is what is important here, goes like this:
1. Illlithids capture humanoid/roper.
2. Illithids take the surviving tadpole out the the elder brain's pool.
3. Illithids place said tapdole into the ear of said humanoid/roper.
4. Tadpole wriggles into subject's brain, and eats it, rapidly growing until it fills the skull.
5. Subject grows facial tentacles, and turns...whatever color illithids are.
6. Subject=Illithid.

The process is called ceremorphosis.

Yes and no. It's not so much that the subject turns into the illithid as the body is taken over. The actual illithid is more akin to a parasite infecting the host, biologically speaking. You, the host, are effectively killed. It just takes over your body. Your body doesn't become the illithid so much as it's inhabited by the illthid.

[Lord Tataraus]

Yes and no. It's not so much that the subject turns into the illithid as the body is taken over. The actual illithid is more akin to a parasite infecting the host, biologically speaking. You, the host, are effectively killed. It just takes over your body. Your body doesn't become the illithid so much as it's inhabited by the illthid.

That is correct. THe illithid itself grows to fit the body it is inserted in, though an illithid not inserted in a body becomes a worm-like creature (neothillid (sp?)) so you can think of it as a really big tapeworm in a corpse...that's really disgusting.

[Dervag]

If you need a fossil that's clearly recognizable as an illithid, make it a naturally mummified one. Have the party find it either in a desert or mountaintop (where low humidity slows decomposition) or underwater in tar or a peat bog.

Have them find 2 or 3 partly shriveled, mummified illithids. Then when they start picking up the next one... undead illithid.

For more scary-as-hell things that can happen when you start picking around with the fossils of powerful elder races, see "At the Mountains of Madness" by H.P. Lovecraft!

Remember that dead illithids have their brains extracted upon death to be thrown into the Elder Brain's pool, so their skulls are likely to have holes as well.

Since fossilization usually happens to creatures that get buried in a mudslide or something like that so that scavengers don't get a good shot at the body, it might well be that this particular mind flayer wasn't available for brain extraction.

That is correct. THe illithid itself grows to fit the body it is inserted in, though an illithid not inserted in a body becomes a worm-like creature (neothillid (sp?)) so you can think of it as a really big tapeworm in a corpse...that's really disgusting.

When is thinking about illithids not disgusting?

[AslanCross]

Since fossilization usually happens to creatures that get buried in a mudslide or something like that so that scavengers don't get a good shot at the body, it might well be that this particular mind flayer wasn't available for brain extraction.

True, though I was thinking more about mind flayers that were actually buried ceremonially. On the other hand, I don't think Lords of Madness says anything more about them other than that their brains are tossed into the Elder Brain pool. They might just throw the bodies away.

[The_Snark]

True, though I was thinking more about mind flayers that were actually buried ceremonially. On the other hand, I don't think Lords of Madness says anything more about them other than that their brains are tossed into the Elder Brain pool. They might just throw the bodies away.

Given the illithid reputation for efficiency and lack of squeamishness, I suspect not.

[MaxMahem]

Actually I believe in some setting Illithids are actually from the future, so their should be little fossilized remains of them. Failing that, they are almost always extra-planar and probably haven't been on your particular material plane long enough to leave a record behind.

[Tengu]

They are from the future, but the destination of their time travel was thousands of years ago, not yesterday. Fossils are fine.

[Nonah_Me]

Most fossils of human(oids) would be found in settled or semi-settled areas. Ithilids aren't likely to abandon a city (especially if there was/is an elder brain there), so the only time one would find an "empty" ithilid settlement is when someone happens upon said settlement after is destruction. As this would probably have been done by githyanki or githzerai, I'm willing to bet that event he skeletons of said ithilids would be destroyed.

[Yuki Akuma]

Given the illithid reputation for efficiency and lack of squeamishness, I suspect not.

What? Do you think they'd eat the corpses? Illithids only eat brains (all the nutrients they need can be synthesised or extracted from brains). So the only part of an Illithid corpse they'd actually eat would already be gone, and besides, they are squeamish about eating Illithid brains.

[Belkarseviltwin]

What? Do you think they'd eat the corpses? Illithids only eat brains (all the nutrients they need can be synthesised or extracted from brains). So the only part of an Illithid corpse they'd actually eat would already be gone, and besides, they are squeamish about eating Illithid brains.

Exactly- and I think even Illithid efficiency would balk at feeding dead illithids to thralls. After all, it probably tastes like squid, so they might develop a taste for it...

I think Illlithids probably either cremate their dead, or mummify them in some elaborate way.

[Cyclone231]

What? Do you think they'd eat the corpses? Illithids only eat brains (all the nutrients they need can be synthesised or extracted from brains). So the only part of an Illithid corpse they'd actually eat would already be gone, and besides, they are squeamish about eating Illithid brains.

Dude, what are you talking about? Illithids consume brains in order to feed their human bodies with chemicals, enzymes and psychic energy that their illithid brain does not produce. Being that another illithid probably didn't die from starvation, there would be quantities of all the necessary chemicals, enzymes, and perhaps even a bit of leftover psychic energy, given that the illithid nervous system is far more complex and intertwined with the body than a human's is.

[Kaelaroth]

Can someone explain the illithids are from the future thing? I'm very confused, and rather worried.

*looks under the bed for time-travelling mind-flayers*

"AAAAH! Squidy-Thing!"


Where did they come from? Where was this detailed?

[Cyclone231]

Can someone explain the illithids are from the future thing? I'm very confused, and rather worried.

*looks under the bed for time-travelling mind-flayers*

"AAAAH! Squidy-Thing!"


Where did they come from? Where was this detailed?

Lords of Madness, p. 70-71, "The Whispering Shadow".

Basically, they had an awesome empire near the end of time, then some unknown enemy came, and the surviving mind flayer's jumped in a time machine. They started a new empire and took Gith slaves. Unfortunately, the Gith rebelled and destroyed all their awesome future-magi-psi-tech, and then the mind flayer's lost their empire.

By the by, the Mind Flayer's massive eugenics project (the infanticide of all but the best tadpoles) will likely lead to their second (third?) empire being stronger than the last.

[The_Snark]

What? Do you think they'd eat the corpses? Illithids only eat brains (all the nutrients they need can be synthesised or extracted from brains). So the only part of an Illithid corpse they'd actually eat would already be gone, and besides, they are squeamish about eating Illithid brains.

Possibly... as Cyclone said, they do need to eat other stuff. I know that thrall bodies, for example, are rendered into a pasty gruel and fed to other thralls. Possibly they wouldn't stoop to using their dead bodies to feed thralls, but they do require other sustenance; it would be wasteful to constantly eat brains. They're not that easy to come by.

So... they might be used for food, or for horrible grafting experiments. Illithids are inventive. Your mind and body belong to the Elder Brain in life and death!

[MrNexx]

True, though I was thinking more about mind flayers that were actually buried ceremonially. On the other hand, I don't think Lords of Madness says anything more about them other than that their brains are tossed into the Elder Brain pool. They might just throw the bodies away.

Soylent Mauve is Illithids!

[SilverClawShift]

Basically, they had an awesome empire near the end of time, then some unknown enemy came

Yes, the illithids literally owned the universe until time itself ran out. They had blotted out every star, every sun, and existance was one giant pit of the blackest dispair. They won. There were tiny pockets where they didn't have an iron grip. Fragments of planes that had rebels and freedom fighters, and the outer planes still had sections where mindflayers didn't rule everything. But even at this point, the illithid controlled MOST of hell AND the abyss. We're talking the empire to end all empires.

They started a new empire and took Gith slaves. Unfortunately, the Gith rebelled and destroyed all their awesome future-magi-psi-tech, and then the mind flayer's lost their empire.

Which could very well bite them on the hind-quarters.

See, the mindflayers had one goal in coming back. "Don't screw up the future". Every illithid plot, and scheme, and plan, and action is intended to do one thing: Ensure the illithid empire comes back. When possible, they want to accelerate that process so they control the universe for even longer, and can continue to control more and more of, not only phyiscal existance, but time itself, until they've gone back far enough that their empire spans the beginning to the end of time.

And what do they do?

They accidently create a race of illithid hating, naturally psionic mindflayer hunters hell bent on their total destruction.

They might actually lose this time around, thanks to our good friends, the Gith.

[martyboy74]

If the gith aren't too busy killing each other first. The illithids are fairly subtle, y'know.

[SilverClawShift]

Oh sure. It's not like the mindflayers have suddenly lost the "War to rule the universe". They're patient, smarter than all of us, have knowledge about the future we simply don't, and thrive off of control and manipulation. They're also ruled by elite giant brains who do nothing bit sit and think about how to take over the universe.

I'm just sayin, they DID come back in time with the primary goal of "Don't screw up and destroy our empire before it starts", and then they made a race of psionic warriors who have a racial hatred of mindflayers. Good game illithids, good game.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Yes, the illithids literally owned the universe until time itself ran out. They had blotted out every star, every sun, and existance was one giant pit of the blackest dispair. They won. There were tiny pockets where they didn't have an iron grip. Fragments of planes that had rebels and freedom fighters, and the outer planes still had sections where mindflayers didn't rule everything. But even at this point, the illithid controlled MOST of hell AND the abyss. We're talking the empire to end all empires.

Major Overstatement. They controlled their universe-not the entire multiverse. They never controlled any outer planes-no mortal race can. A single planar lord or Greater God may spend 10 minutes and say "I wish my realm had no air". And poof, an entire layer of a plane has no air and the invading illithids die. Or, "I wish my realm were 100 times hotter". And suddenly the invading illithids are incinerated. A Greater God or Planar Lord that wants to mess with a mortal race spends 1 year to alter the Time trait for his realm. Say, for every minute in the material plane, a million years pass for the god's domain. Then the greater god has fun using Life and Death from his own realm to kill illithids. For every minute that passes in the Material Plane, the Greater God can kill 5.256.000.000.000 Illithids. So, in a single minute the entire Illithid empire goes poof.

So no, the Illithids never controlled anything beyond their own universe.