Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert

[Emanick]

Is that correct? Is there not, for example, a wand that can create layers of a Prismatic Wall? ISTR that to create such a wand you need both the Craft Wand and Craft Wondrous Item feats.

There may be a non-core item that meets that description, but the core rules restrict all wands to storing spells of 4th level or lower.

[Yanisa]

To add: It is said in the feat itself:

You can create a wand of any 4th-level or lower spell that you know.

Interesting enough this limitation is not present in the actually rules, meaning a different methode of crafting wands could still work (although the table does end with 4th level spells). Also I cannot quickly locate a wand of Prismatic Wall to find its source.

There are also Scepters, which function like wands up to 7th level but are tied in with Fearun lore. Rods and Staves could also be used instead of a wand. All three options don't look visible applicable.

[danielxcutter]

I suppose it might not be Dimension Door, but I can't think of any appropriate spells. I presume it was the wand and not another item?

[hamishspence]

Interesting enough this limitation is not present in the actually rules, meaning a different methode of crafting wands could still work

Those rules do come with:

Item Creation Feat Required
Craft Wand.

[Quartz]

There may be a non-core item that meets that description, but the core rules restrict all wands to storing spells of 4th level or lower.

I was remembering the Wand of Conjuration. No, it's not in the SRD. It could do Monster Summoning 1 - IX too depending upon the number of charges expended.

[danielxcutter]

I was remembering the Wand of Conjuration. No, it's not in the SRD. It could do Monster Summoning 1 - IX too depending upon the number of charges expended.

I suspect that's not a 3.Xe item. Or it's not actually a wand.

[Doug Lampert]

I suspect that's not a 3.Xe item. Or it's not actually a wand.

3.x an item as described would probably be a staff. A 3rd edition wand can't spend multiple charges for greater effect and only has a single spell available.

A 3rd edition staff can use multiple charges for various effects and can hold high level spells. There is a 3.5 "Staff of Conjuration" but it has only one summon monster spell (VI), for 3 charges.

[ziproot]

I was remembering the Wand of Conjuration. No, it's not in the SRD. It could do Monster Summoning 1 - IX too depending upon the number of charges expended.

There's a Wand of Conjuration in 5th edition, if that's what you're thinking of.

[Yanisa]

I was remembering the Wand of Conjuration. No, it's not in the SRD. It could do Monster Summoning 1 - IX too depending upon the number of charges expended.

The Wand of Conjuration you seem to describing might be first edition. Or a homebrew upgrade to 3.5.

Said first edition wand could only do summon monster I, II and/or III (yes any combination of those), but also Prismatic Sphere or Wall. Plus an bunch of additional things like unseen servant, detect/read magic, create darkness. This wand is a wild ride.
Disclaimer: I don't own a first edition book so I cannot double check what the original is. Most of my information comes from other forum posts.

[Wildstag]

Wish has been mentioned as a spell that exists within the comic (including V's offer to trade it for Fly), and can just create a magic item, but then we get into weird territories. Also, I recall TR being not in play, but I don't recall if Wish is also out of play in comic.

Also, it would be unsatisfying narratively to have used a Wish to make a teleportation-based wand instead of just holding on to the Wish for a rainy day.

[dancrilis]

Also, I recall TR being not in play, but I don't recall if Wish is also out of play in comic.

Within the comic world True Resurrection does exist.

[Wildstag]

Within the comic world True Resurrection does exist.

Yes, but as I understand it, Rich himself does not want it to be a viable option "available to everyone". Realistically, that could mean a member of the Order could be brought back that way, but it would be unlikely.

And I'm not certain if Wish would be treated in the same way.

[dancrilis]

Vaarsuvius
Skills: Appraise +3 (from familiar), Concentration 12+, Craft: Alchemy, Decipher Script (SSDT), Knowledge: Arcana, Knowledge: Engineering, Knowledge: Religion not high (forum), Ride 0, Spot 0, Search 0, Speak Language: Elven (racial), raven, not draconic (SSDT), Spellcraft, Use Magic Device 2+.

Should 'Knowledge: Planes' be added to this list.
Justification: Vaarsuvius is able to identify an extraplaner bat as daemonic and had knowledge of its flight speed.

[Emanick]

Should 'Knowledge: Planes' be added to this list.
Justification: Vaarsuvius is able to identify an extraplaner bat as daemonic and had knowledge of its flight speed.

Upon reading the relevant strip, I concur. That's definitely specialist knowledge.

[danielxcutter]

It's a class skill for Wizards and they have the Int to get the skill points anyways. Sounds fair enough.

[dancrilis]

Upon reading the relevant strip, I concur. That's definitely specialist knowledge.

Thought I had done it when I initially posted - I have updated with a link to the strip.

[danielxcutter]

Also Serini has a hand crossbow, a wand(presumably of Dimension Door), goggles, and some kind of pouch which has what I suspect to be potions attached to it. Plus a magic cauldron that can brew potions and a tunic.

[dancrilis]

Also Serini has a hand crossbow, a wand(presumably of Dimension Door), goggles, and some kind of pouch which has what I suspect to be potions attached to it. Plus a magic cauldron that can brew potions and a tunic.

... and five (six?) sets of manacles, two paladins, some potted plants, a step ladder, a futon, a bed, a ladder, a dartboard, some pictures, two wardrobes, a chest of drawers, some boxes, some barrels, a book, some papers and a cloak.

Possibly covers most things.

[danielxcutter]

Do we count everything we know they have or just the things they personally carry around?

[dancrilis]

Do we count everything we know they have or just the things they personally carry around?

She doesn't carry around a magic cauldron.

Further Tsukiko doesn't carry around 'Xykon portrait, various books and scrolls, quill' (well I suppose she might but we have no reason to think she does).

[Kornaki]

If she did carry it around, it's a pile of ash in Redcloak's fireplace now

[Reboot]

If she did carry it around, it's a pile of ash in Redcloak's fireplace now

You have a very low opinion of Redclock's fastidiousness :p

[Emanick]

She doesn't carry around a magic cauldron.

Further Tsukiko doesn't carry around 'Xykon portrait, various books and scrolls, quill' (well I suppose she might but we have no reason to think she does).

I imagine she carries the quill around, at least. Quills are useful, especially if you’ve got a way to conjure ink.

[danielxcutter]

I imagine she carries the quill around, at least. Quills are useful, especially if you’ve got a way to conjure ink.

Or, well, buy a lot of it. Ink's honestly pretty cheap even early level, and she probably has Scribe Scroll if she didn't swap that out.

Plus, wizard. Those spellbooks don't write themselves.

[halfeye]

Plus, wizard. Those spellbooks don't write themselves.

They don't?

[dancrilis]

I have argued it before and likely will again - but I think Roy should be listed as level 16+.

Spoiler: Previously provided examples

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He seems to make four attacks here with four slashes (I assume the whiff is an attack of opportunity as Xykon's moved away).
He seems to make four attacks here with three clunks followed by a crack.

He seems to use four attacks here with three clangs followed by a splrtchk! (panels 2 and 3).

As he has been getting four attacks against people and has no known items providing haste or the like it seems more reasonable to have him as level 16, this would also be in line with how levels were done for Haley, Thog, Hinjo, Logann Brightstone (and likely a few others).

[danielxcutter]

Unless there's a feasible way to get six attacks in a round with a greatsword, I don't think #442 proves anything.

Remember, he "just got back to where he was" a bit before the Crystal golem fight. Does that mean he was Fighter 16+ before the Battle of Azure City?

[dancrilis]

Unless there's a feasible way to get six attacks in a round with a greatsword, I don't think #442 proves anything.

There is only four slashes, panels 13, 14, 15, 16 - I am taking panel 17 to be just the continued strike from 16 as it doesn't have its own sound, for 18 that would be an attack of opportunity from when Xykon provoked him by moving (the whiff sound)- unless you are seeing an attack that I am not.

Remember, he "just got back to where he was" a bit before the Crystal golem fight. Does that mean he was Fighter 16+ before the Battle of Azure City?

There is no evidence that I am aware of for before but the above is evidence* for during - Roy seems to have consistently made 4 attacks both before and after he died.

*how good that evidence is a matter of personal opinion - but it is supported by Roy continuing to make four attacks in the other examples.

If we are not going to take Roy's attacks per round as reason to increase his level then what would we take as a reason - and why are we holding Roy to standards not used for other characters who do have attacks per round used for their levels.

[danielxcutter]

Why would the attack in panel 17 be the same as the one in panel 16? There's a new wound line on his arm that wasn't there on the last panel, and there just isn't any room for the SLASH! thing to show up there due to Xykon yammering.

[dancrilis]

Why would the attack in panel 17 be the same as the one in panel 16? There's a new wound line on his arm that wasn't there on the last panel, and there just isn't any room for the SLASH! thing to show up there due to Xykon yammering.

Spoiler: Old Discussion

Show

If the Giant had wanted a slash there he could have had one - he was clearly including sounds and didn't in that panel, and I would take sounds as more useful then visual damage marks.

But as the spoiler indicated this is all an old discussion that has already been had and it wasn't enough to convince people to bring Roy to level 16+ back in the day and I don't imagine it will be now, it was included in a spoiler for reference but it isn't the current point.

The current point is the fight with Durkon where Roy makes four attacks seemingly could be evidence for level 16+.