Fighter build (extra feat at EVERY level + free exotic weapons proficiency)

[Anthrowhale]

I'd still recommend dumping your Int to an extra low minimal given the houserules. You end up with 2 skills instead of 3 on a human, which is ok. For party face, the Rogue or the Monk can do that, and better, since they can take Sense Motive as well---without that the face is also a sucker. Knowledge[Religion] also doesn't seem super necessary.

The Fighter is a frontliner, but the Rogue and the Monk need help in core. For the Rogue, it's about setting up flanks.

An effective core-only monk is pretty tough. They need a high strength, dexterity, and wisdom with a reasonable constitution. If I have the houserules right, that implies likely low charisma and low intelligence, so probably the rogue should be the face. The Monk in particular may benefit significantly from whatever buffing spells you can cast on it.

Overall, I think it's reasonable to have a second solid frontliner.

[MR_Anderson]

Thanks a lot for the advice.

We had our first session of the new campaign yesterday.

At this point, I can probably still make minor adjustments to the character, so please feel free to comment on possible improvements.

Here is what I have:

Human, Cleric

Full spheres: Elemental, Healing, Protection, Divination
Partial spheres (L1-L4): Combat, Animal, Weather, Necromancy

Total points available: 75

Str 16 (is that sufficient or should I go for 18? Cleave is probably less viable with 16, right?)

Dex 12 (as suggested)

Con 11 (I had to reduce this to free up points. Since HP are increased retroactively when increasing CON later, I guess this is better than starting with lower INT etc.)

Int 10 (didn't want to dump it completely to get at least some skill points to increase Concentration, Diplomacy and Knowledge Religion to 4 each, does that make sense?)

Wis 16 (bit higher than your suggestion, but I would like to transition to full caster and am worried that starting with 14 might impact long-term viability. )

Cha 10 (you suggested I could not dump CHA to keep turn undead viable. I also might end up being party face with Diplomacy)

How would you have distributed the 75 points?

Feats: Power Attack, Improved Initiative. I took improved initiative because I am not sure about Cleave. I think it will primarily be useful during the first couple of levels. After that my kill ratio will probably drop compared to the fighter and I will start to transition towards casting, which means that Cleave would get triggered more and more rarely and Improved Initiative would be more helpful. Do you agree?

In terms of equipment, I took a chain shirt and got a greatsword for free. Do you have any advice regarding suitable initial equipment?

Thank you and have a nice Sunday!

With those spheres, you are never going to be a caster.

Matter of fact there really isn’t a reason for Wisdom higher than 14 or really going beyond Level 7, unless you want to get Resurrection and Heal.

You are limited to the spells you can cast by the spheres, and there really isn’t anything that you need a high Wisdom to make your enemy’s saving throws difficult, nor anything powerful beyond 4th Level Restoration making it worth it. You have Reincarnation from Necromancy, so that will do, even if it pisses people off, it is the DM’s fault for not making it worth going higher. You can’t even summon well.

This alone changes your abilities, because now you only need 13 Wisdom to start, and taking the wisdom increase at level 4 will get you 4th level spells in time for 7th level.

I would make your stats as follows:
STR - 18 (Combat Cleric)
DEX - 8 (You’ll need to get a +2 Buff for Half-Plate and +4 Buff for Full-Plate)
CON - 16 (You can really use Shield Other, and that can be a good tactic.)
INT - 10 (Almost thought about increasing over CHA)
WIS - 13 (You’ll never have high level Cleric Spells)
CHA - 10 (Not Negative to hurt your Diplomacy)

This makes going 7 or 8 levels plausible, and then switching to something like Fighter or Barbarian.

However, I would recommend picking up Craft Wondrous Item and Craft Magic Arms and Armor, as you can craft most everything that is really important for adventuring.

Basically, I would use Faerie Fire and Obscuring Mist tactic, as well as Shield Other.

What Domains did you take? I expected Travel and Trickery, which also doesn’t change going higher either.

[MR_Anderson]

Basically Highlighted in Blue what you would be able to cast that is good, and in Red what you would need higher Wisdom.

I lined out what you don’t get in the 0-4th list.

You really should try to get silence or the guardian sphere.

The spell lists are as follows:

Spoiler: Spheres

Show

1. All
Purify Food and Drink (Level 0): Purifies 1 cu. ft./level of food or water.
Bless (Level 1): Allies gain +1 on attack rolls and saves against fear.
Bless Water M (Level 1): Makes holy water.
Detect Chaos/Evil/Good/Law (Level 1): Reveals creatures, spells, or objects of selected alignment.
Align Weapon (Level 2): Weapon becomes good, evil, lawful, or chaotic.
Atonement F X (Level 5): Removes burden of misdeeds from subject.
Hallow M (Level 5): Designates location as holy.
Unhallow M (Level 5): Designates location as unholy.
Miracle X (Level 9): Requests a deity’s intercession.

2. Animal
Calm Animals (Level 1): Calms (2d4 + level) HD of animals.
Charm Animal (Level 1): Makes one animal your friend.
Detect Animals or Plants (Level 1): Detects kinds of animals or plants.
Hide from Animals (Level 1): Animals can’t perceive one subject/level.
Speak with Animals (Level 1): You can communicate with animals.
Animal Messenger (Level 2): Sends a Tiny animal to a specific place.
Animal Trance (Level 2): Fascinates 2d6 HD of animals.
Hold Animal (Level 2): Paralyzes one animal for 1 round/level.
Reduce Animal (Level 2): Shrinks one willing animal.
Dominate Animal (Level 3): Subject animal obeys silent mental commands.
Summon Swarm (Level 3): Summons swarm of bats, rats, or spiders.
Giant Vermin (Level 4): Turns centipedes, scorpions, or spiders into giant vermin.
Repel Vermin (Level 4): Insects, spiders, and other vermin stay 10 ft. away.
Animal Growth (Level 5): One animal/two levels doubles in size.
Awaken X (Level 5): Animal or tree gains human intellect. [Anm. Manu: hier nur Tier]
Insect Plague (Level 5): Locust swarms attack creatures.
Creeping Doom (Level 7): Swarms of centipedes attack at your command.
Animal Shapes (Level 8): One ally/level polymorphs into chosen animal.
Summon Nature’s Ally I (Level 1): Calls creature to fight.
Summon Nature’s Ally II (Level 2): Calls creature to fight.
Summon Nature’s Ally III (Level 3): Calls creature to fight.
Summon Nature’s Ally IV (Level 4): Calls creature to fight.
Summon Nature’s Ally V (Level 5): Calls creature to fight.
Summon Nature’s Ally VI (Level 6): Calls creature to fight.
Summon Nature’s Ally VII (Level 7): Calls creature to fight.
Summon Nature’s Ally VIII (Level 8): Calls creature to fight.
Summon Nature’s Ally IX (Level 9): Calls creature to fight.

3. Astral
Planar Ally, Lesser X (Level 4): Exchange services with a 6 HD extraplanar creature.
Plane Shift F (Level 5): As many as eight subjects travel to another plane.
Planar Ally X (Level 6): As lesser planar ally, but up to 12 HD.
Ethereal Jaunt (Level 7): You become ethereal for 1 round/level.
Planar Ally, Greater X (Level 8): As lesser planar ally, but up to 18 HD.
Astral Projection M (Level 9): Projects you and companions onto Astral Plane.
Etherealness (Level 9): Travel to Ethereal Plane with companions.
Gate X (Level 9): Connects two planes for travel or summoning.

4. Charm
Charm Animal (Level 1): Makes one animal your friend.
Command (Level 1): One subject obeys selected command for 1 round.
Remove Fear (Level 1): Suppresses fear or gives +4 on saves against fear for one subject + one per
four levels.
Calm Emotions (Level 2): Calms creatures, negating emotion effects.
Enthrall (Level 2): Captivates all within 100 ft. + 10 ft./level.
Hold Person (Level 2): Paralyzes one humanoid for 1 round/level.
Zone of Truth (Level 2): Subjects within range cannot lie.
Dominate Animal (Level 3): Subject animal obeys silent mental commands.
Command Plants (Level 4): Sway the actions of one or more plant creatures.
Imbue with Spell Ability (Level 4): Transfer spells to subject.
Command, Greater (Level 5): As command, but affects one subject/level.
Geas/Quest (Level 6): As lesser geas, plus it affects any creature.
Antipathy (Level 9): Object or location affected by spell repels certain creatures.
Sympathy M (Lebel 9): Object or location attracts certain creatures.

5. Combat
Guidance (Level 0): +1 on one attack roll, saving throw, or skill check.
Divine Favor (Level 1): You gain +1 per three levels on attack and damage rolls.
Magic Stone (Level 1): Three stones gain +1 on attack, deal 1d6 +1 damage.
Magic Weapon (Level 1): Weapon gains +1 bonus.
Bear’s Endurance (Level 2): Subject gains +4 to Con for 1 min./level.
Bull’s Strength (Level 2): Subject gains +4 to Str for 1 min./level.
Eagle’s Splendor (Level 2): Subject gains +4 to Cha for 1 min./level.
Owl’s Wisdom (Level 2): Subject gains +4 to Wis for 1 min./level.
Spiritual Weapon (Level 2): Magic weapon attacks on its own.
Prayer (Level 3): Allies +1 bonus on most rolls, enemies –1 penalty.
Divine Power (Level 4): You gain attack bonus, +6 to Str, and 1 hp/level.
Magic Weapon, Greater (Level 4): +1 bonus/four levels (max +5).
Flame Strike (Level 5): Smite foes with divine fire (1d6/level damage).
Insect Plague (Level 5): Locust swarms attack creatures.
Righteous Might (Level 5): Your size increases, and you gain combat bonuses.
Bear’s Endurance, Mass (Level 6): As bear’s endurance, affects one subject/level.
Bull’s Strength, Mass (Level 6): As bull’s strength, affects one subject/level.
Eagle’s Splendor, Mass (Level 6): As eagle’s splendor, affects one subject/level.
Owl’s Wisdom, Mass (Level 6): As owl’s wisdom, affects one subject/level.
Holy Word (Level 7): Kills, paralyzes, blinds, or deafens nongood subjects.

6. Creation
Create Water (Level 0): Creates 2 gallons/level of pure water.
Create Food and Water (Level 3): Feeds three humans (or one horse)/level.
Wall of Thorns (Level 5): Thorns damage anyone who tries to pass.
Animate Objects (Level 6): Objects attack your foes.
Blade Barrier (Level 6): Wall of blades deals 1d6/level damage.
Heroes’ Feast (Level 6): Food for one creature/level cures and grants combat bonuses.
Changestaff (Level 7): Your staff becomes a treant on command.

7. Divination
Detect Magic (Level 0): Detects spells and magic items within 60 ft.
Detect Poison (Level 0): Detects poison in one creature or object.
Know Direction (Level 0): You discern north.
Read Magic (Level 0): Read scrolls and spellbooks.
Comprehend Languages (Level 1): You understand all spoken and written languages.
Detect Undead (Level 1): Reveals undead within 60 ft.
Detect Snares and Pits (Level 1): Reveals natural or primitive traps.
Speak with Animals (Level 1): You can communicate with animals.
Augury M F (Level 2): Learns whether an action will be good or bad.
Find Traps (Level 2): Notice traps as a rogue does.
Status (Level 2): Monitors condition, position of allies.
Locate Object (Level 3): Senses direction toward object (specific or type).
Speak with Dead (Level 3): Corpse answers one question/two levels.
Speak with Plants (Level 3): You can talk to normal plants and plant creatures.
Discern Lies (Level 4): Reveals deliberate falsehoods.
Divination M (Level 4): Provides useful advice for specific proposed actions.
Sending (Level 4): Delivers short message anywhere, instantly.
Tongues (Level 4): Speak any language.
Commune X (Level 5): Deity answers one yes-or-no question/level.
Commune with Nature (Level 5): Learn about terrain for 1 mile/level.
Scrying F (Level 5): Spies on subject from a distance.
True Seeing M (Level 5): Lets you see all things as they really are.
Find the Path (Level 6): Shows most direct way to a location.
Scrying, Greater (Level 7): As scrying, but faster and longer.
Discern Location (Level 8): Reveals exact location of creature or object.

8. Elemental
Create Water (Level 0): Creates 2 gallons/level of pure water.
Light (Level 0): Object shines like a torch.
Mending (Level 0): Makes minor repairs on an object.
Produce Flame (Level 1): 1d6 damage +1/level, touch or thrown.
Make Whole (Level 2): Repairs an object.
Fire Trap M (Level 2): Opened object deals 1d4 +1/level damage.
Flame Blade (Level 2): Touch attack deals 1d8 +1/two levels damage.
Flaming Sphere (Level 2): Creates rolling ball of fire, 2d6 damage, lasts 1 round/level.
Heat Metal (Level 2): Make metal so hot it damages those who touch it.
Shatter (Level 2): Sonic vibration damages objects or crystalline creatures.
Soften Earth and Stone (Level 2): Turns stone to clay or dirt to sand or mud.
Sound Burst (Level 2): Deals 1d8 sonic damage to subjects; may stun them.
Meld into Stone (Level 3): You and your gear merge with stone.
Stone Shape (Level 3): Sculpts stone into any shape.
Water Breathing (Level 3): Subjects can breathe underwater.
Water Walk (Level 3): Subject treads on water as if solid.
Wind Wall (Level 3): Deflects arrows, smaller creatures, and gases.
Air Walk (Level 4): Subject treads on air as if solid (climb at 45-degree angle).
Freedom of Movement (Level 4): Subject moves normally despite impediments.
Spike Stones (Level 4): Creatures in area take 1d8 damage, may be slowed.
Transmute Mud to Rock (Level 5): Transforms two 10-ft. cubes per level.
Transmute Rock to Mud (Level 5): Transforms two 10-ft. cubes per level.
Wall of Fire (Level 5): Deals 2d4 fire damage out to 10 ft. and 1d4 out to 20 ft. Passing through wall
deals 2d6 damage +1/level.
Wall of Stone (Level 5): Creates a stone wall that can be shaped.
Move Earth (Level 6): Digs trenches and builds hills.
Wind Walk (Level 6): You and your allies turn vaporous and travel fast.
Fire Storm (Level 7): Deals 1d6/level fire damage.
Earthquake (Level 8): Intense tremor shakes 5-ft./level radius.
Elemental Swarm (Level 9): Summons multiple elementals.
Implosion (Level 9): Kills one creature/round.
Storm of Vengeance (Level 9): Storm rains acid, lightning, and hail.

9. Guardian - TRY AND GET THIS ADDED
Silence (Level 2): Negates sound in 15-ft. radius.
Glyph of Warding M (Level 3): Inscription harms those who pass it.
Symbol of Pain M (Level 5): Triggered rune wracks nearby creatures with pain.
Symbol of Sleep M (Level 5): Triggered rune puts nearby creatures into catatonic slumber.
Blade Barrier (Level 6): Wall of blades deals 1d6/level damage.
Glyph of Warding, Greater (Level 6): As glyph of warding, but up to 10d8 damage or 6th-level spell.
Symbol of Fear M (Level 6): Triggered rune panics nearby creatures.
Symbol of Persuasion M (Level 6): Triggered rune charms nearby creatures.
Symbol of Stunning M (Level 7): Triggered rune stuns nearby creatures.
Symbol of Weakness M (Level 7): Triggered rune weakens nearby creatures.
Symbol of Death M (Level 8): Triggered rune slays nearby creatures.
Symbol of Insanity M (Level 8): Triggered rune renders nearby creatures insane.

10. Healing
Cure Minor Wounds (Level 0): Cures 1 point of damage.
Cure Light Wounds (Level 1): Cures 1d8 damage +1/level (max +5).
Cure Moderate Wounds (Level 2): Cures 2d8 damage +1/level (max +10).
Delay Poison (Level 2): Stops poison from harming subject for 1 hour/level.
Cure Serious Wounds (Level 3): Cures 3d8 damage +1/level (max +15).
Remove Blindness/Deafness (Level 3): Cures normal or magical conditions.
Remove Disease (Level 3): Cures all diseases affecting subject.
Cure Critical Wounds (Level 4): Cures 4d8 damage +1/level (max +20).
Neutralize Poison (Level 4): Immunizes subject against poison, detoxifies venom in or on subject.
Restoration M (Level 4): Restores level and ability score drains.
Cure Light Wounds, Mass (Level 5): Cures 1d8 damage +1/level for many creatures.
Cure Moderate Wounds, Mass (Level 6): Cures 2d8 damage +1/level for many creatures.
Heal (Level 6): Cures 10 points/level of damage, all diseases and mental conditions.
Cure Serious Wounds, Mass (Level 7): Cures 3d8 damage +1/level for many creatures.
Regenerate (Level 7): Subject’s severed limbs grow back, cures 4d8 damage +1/level (max +35).
Restoration, Greater X (Level 7): As restoration, plus restores all levels and ability scores.
Resurrection M (Level 7): Fully restore dead subject.
Cure Critical Wounds, Mass (Level 8): Cures 4d8 damage +1/level for many creatures.
Heal, Mass (Level 9): As heal, but with several subjects.
True Resurrection M (Level 9): As resurrection, plus remains aren’t needed.

11. Necromantic
Inflict Minor Wounds (Level 0): Touch attack, 1 point of damage.
Virtue (Level 0): Subject gains 1 temporary hp.
Curse Water M (Level 1): Makes unholy water.
Hide from Undead (Level 1): Undead can’t perceive one subject/level.
Inflict Light Wounds (Level 1): Touch deals 1d8 damage +1/level (max +5).
Deathwatch (Level 1): Reveals how near death subjects within 30 ft. are.
Aid (Level 2): +1 on attack rolls and saves against fear, 1d8 temporary hp +1/level (max +10).
Death Knell (Level 2): Kills dying creature; you gain 1d8 temporary hp, +2 to Str, and +1 level.
Desecrate M (Level 2): Fills area with negative energy, making undead stronger.
Gentle Repose (Level 2): Preserves one corpse.
Inflict Moderate Wounds (Level 2): Touch attack, 2d8 damage +1/level (max +10).
Animate Dead M (Level 3): Creates undead skeletons and zombies.
Contagion (Level 3): Infects subject with chosen disease.
Inflict Serious Wounds (Level 3): Touch attack, 3d8 damage +1/level (max+15).
Inflict Critical Wounds (Level 4): Touch attack, 4d8 damage +1/level (max+20).
Poison (Level 4): Touch deals 1d10 Con damage, repeats in 1 min.
Reincarnate (Level 4): Brings dead subject back in a random body.
Inflict Light Wounds, Mass (Level 5): Deals 1d8 damage +1/level to many creatures.
Raise Dead M (Level 5): Restores life to subject who died as long as one day/level ago.
Slay Living (Level 5): Touch attack kills subject.
Create Undead (Level 6): Create ghouls, ghasts, mummies, or mohrgs.
Harm (Level 6): Deals 10 points/level damage to target.
Inflict Moderate Wounds, Mass (Level 6): Deals 2d8 damage +1/level to many creatures.
Inflict Serious Wounds, Mass (Level 7): Deals 3d8 damage +1/level to many creatures.
Inflict Critical Wounds, Mass (Level 8): Deals 4d8 damage +1/level to many creatures.
Create Greater Undead M (Level 8): Create shadows, wraiths, spectres, or devourers.
Unholy Aura F (Level 8): +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against good spells.
Energy Drain (Level 9): Subject gains 2d4 negative levels.
Soul Bind (Level 9): Traps newly dead soul to prevent resurrection.

12. Plant
Detect Animals or Plants (Level 1): Detects kinds of animals or plants.
Entangle (Level 1): Plants entangle everyone in 40-ft.-radius.
Goodberry (Level 1): 2d4 berries each cure 1 hp (max 8 hp/24 hours).
Pass without Trace (Level 1): One subject/level leaves no tracks.
Shillelagh (Level 1): Cudgel or quarterstaff becomes +1 weapon (1d10 damage) for 1 min./level.
Tree Shape (Level 2): You look exactly like a tree for 1 hour/level.
Warp Wood (Level 2): Bends wood (shaft, handle, door, plank).
Wood Shape (Level 2): Rearranges wooden objects to suit you.
Diminish Plants (Level 3): Reduces size or blights growth of normal plants.
Plant Growth (Level 3): Grows vegetation, improves crops.
Speak with Plants (Level 3): You can talk to normal plants and plant creatures.
Spike Growth (Level 3): Creatures in area take 1d4 damage, may be slowed.
Antiplant Shell (Level 4): Keeps animated plants at bay.
Blight (Level 4): Withers one plant or deals 1d6/level damage to plant creature.
Command Plants (Level 4): Sway the actions of one or more plant creatures.
Awaken X (Level 5): Animal or tree gains human intellect. [Anm. Manu: hier nur Baum]
Commune with Nature (Level 5): Learn about terrain for 1 mile/level.
Tree Stride (Level 5): Step from one tree to another far away.
Wall of Thorns (Level 5): Thorns damage anyone who tries to pass.
Ironwood (Level 6): Magic wood is strong as steel.
Liveoak (Level 6): Oak becomes treant guardian.
Repel Wood (Level 6): Pushes away wooden objects.
Transport via Plants (Level 6): Move instantly from one plant to another of the same kind.
Animate Plants (Level 7): One or more plants animate and fight for you.
Changestaff (Level 7): Your staff becomes a treant on command.
Control Plants (Level 8): Control actions of one or more plant creatures.
Shambler (Level 9): Summons 1d4+2 shambling mounds to fight for you.

13. Protection
Resistance (Level 0): Subject gains +1 on saving throws.
Endure Elements (Level 1): Exist comfortably in hot or cold environments.
Entropic Shield (Level 1): Ranged attacks against you have 20% miss chance.
Hide from Undead (Level 1): Undead can’t perceive one subject/level.
Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law (Level 1): +2 to AC and saves, counter mind control, hedge
out elementals and outsiders.
Sanctuary (Level 1): Opponents can’t attack you, and you can’t attack.
Shield of Faith (Level 1): Aura grants +2 or higher deflection bonus.
Remove Paralysis (Level 2): Frees one or more creatures from paralysis or slow effect.
Resist Energy (Level 2): Ignores 10 (or more) points of damage/attack from specified energy type.
Restoration, Lesser (Level 2): Dispels magical ability penalty or repairs 1d4 ability damage.
Shield Other F (Level 2): You take half of subject’s damage.
Undetectable Alignment (Level 2): Conceals alignment for 24 hours.
Dispel Magic (Level 3): Cancels spells and magical effects.
Invisibility Purge (Level 3): Dispels invisibility within 5 ft./level.
Magic Vestment (Level 3): Armor or shield gains +1 enhancement per four levels.
Magic Circle against Chaos/Evil/Good/Law (Level 3): As protection spells, but 10-ft. radius and 10
min./level.
Obscure Object (Level 3): Masks object against scrying.
Protection from Energy (Level 3): Absorb 12 points/level of damage from one kind of energy.
Remove Curse (Level 3): Frees object or person from curse.
Death Ward (Level 4): Grants immunity to death spells and negative energy effects.
Dismissal (Level 4): Forces a creature to return to native plane.
Repel Vermin (Level 4): Insects, spiders, and other vermin stay 10 ft. away.
Spell Immunity (Level 4): Subject is immune to one spell per four levels.
Break Enchantment (Level 5): Frees subjects from enchantments, alterations, curses, and petrifica-
tion.
Dispel Chaos/Evil/Good/Law (Level 5): +4 bonus against attacks.
Spell Resistance (Level 5): Subject gains SR 12 + level.
Antilife Shell (Level 6): 10-ft. field hedges out living creatures.
Banishment (Level 6): Banishes 2 HD/level of extraplanar creatures.
Dispel Magic, Greater (Level 6): As dispel magic, but up to +20 on check.
Forbiddance M (Level 6): Blocks planar travel, damages creatures of different alignment.
Repulsion (Level 7): Creatures can’t approach you.
Antimagic Field (Level 8): Negates magic within 10 ft.
Cloak of Chaos F (Level 8): +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against lawful spells.
Dimensional Lock (Level 8): Teleportation and interplanar travel blocked for one day/level.
Holy Aura F (Level 8): +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against evil spells.
Shield of Law F (Level 8): +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against chaotic spells.
Spell Immunity, Greater (Level 8): As spell immunity, but up to 8th-level spells.
Unholy Aura F (Level 8): +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against good spells.

14. Summoning
Summon Monster I (Level 1): Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
Summon Monster II (Level 2): Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
Summon Monster III (Level 3): Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
Summon Monster IV (Level 4): Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
Summon Monster V (Level 5): Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
Summon Monster VI (Level 6): Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
Summon Monster VII (Level 7): Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
Summon Monster VIII (Level 8): Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
Summon Monster IX (Level 9): Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
Helping Hand (Level 3): Ghostly hand leads subject to you.
Word of Recall (Level 6): Teleports you back to designated place.

15. Sun
Light (Level 0): Object shines like a torch.
Hide from Undead (Level 1): Undead can’t perceive one subject/level.
Consecrate M (Level 2): Fills area with positive energy, making undead weaker.
Darkness (Level 2): 20-ft. radius of supernatural shadow.
Continual Flame M (Level 3): Makes a permanent, heatless torch.
Daylight (Level 3): 60-ft. radius of bright light.
Deeper Darkness (Level 3): Object sheds supernatural shadow in 60-ft. radius.
Searing Light (Level 3): Ray deals 1d8/two levels damage, more against undead.
Disrupting Weapon (Level 5): Melee weapon destroys undead.
Undeath to Death M (Level 6): Destroys 1d4 HD/level undead (max 20d4).
Sunbeam (Level 7): Beam blinds and deals 4d6 damage.
Sunburst (Level 8): Blinds all within 10 ft., deals 6d6 damage.

16. Weather
Faerie Fire (Level 1): Outlines subjects with light, canceling blur, concealment, and the like.
Obscuring Mist (Level 1): Fog surrounds you.
Fog Cloud (Level 2): Fog obscures vision.
Gust of Wind (Level 2): Blows away or knocks down smaller creatures.
Call Lightning (Level 3): Calls down lightning bolts (3d6 per bolt) from sky.
Control Water (Level 4): Raises or lowers bodies of water.
Call Lightning Storm (Level 5): As call lightning, but 5d6 damage per bolt.
Control Winds (Level 5): Change wind direction and speed.
Control Weather (Level 7): Changes weather in local area.
Storm of Vengeance (Level 9): Storm rains acid, lightning, and hail.

17. Curse
Bane (Level 1): Enemies take –1 on attack rolls and saves against fear.
Cause Fear (Level 1): One creature of 5 HD or less flees for 1d4 rounds.
Doom (Level 1): One subject takes –2 on attack rolls, damage rolls, saves, and checks.
Bestow Curse (Level 3): –6 to an ability score; –4 on attack rolls, saves, and checks; or 50% chance
of losing each action.
Blindness/Deafness (Level 3): Makes subject blinded or deafened.
Dimensional Anchor (Level 4): Bars extradimensional movement.
Baleful Polymorph (Level 5): Transforms subject into harmless animal.
Mark of Justice (Level 5): Designates action that will trigger curse on subject.
Blasphemy (Level 7): Kills, paralyzes, weakens, or dazes nonevil subjects.
Destruction F (Level 7): Kills subject and destroys remains.
Dictum (Level 7): Kills, paralyzes, slows, or deafens nonlawful subjects.
Refuge M (Level 7): Alters item to transport its possessor to you.
Word of Chaos (Level 7): Kills, confuses, stuns, or deafens nonchaotic subjects.

Spoiler: Your Full Spheres

Show

1. All
Purify Food and Drink (Level 0): Purifies 1 cu. ft./level of food or water.
Bless (Level 1): Allies gain +1 on attack rolls and saves against fear.
Bless Water M (Level 1): Makes holy water.
Detect Chaos/Evil/Good/Law (Level 1): Reveals creatures, spells, or objects of selected alignment.
Align Weapon (Level 2): Weapon becomes good, evil, lawful, or chaotic.
Atonement F X (Level 5): Removes burden of misdeeds from subject.
Hallow M (Level 5): Designates location as holy.
Unhallow M (Level 5): Designates location as unholy.
Miracle X (Level 9): Requests a deity’s intercession.

7. Divination
Detect Magic (Level 0): Detects spells and magic items within 60 ft.
Detect Poison (Level 0): Detects poison in one creature or object.
Know Direction (Level 0): You discern north.
Read Magic (Level 0): Read scrolls and spellbooks.
Comprehend Languages (Level 1): You understand all spoken and written languages.
Detect Undead (Level 1): Reveals undead within 60 ft.
Detect Snares and Pits (Level 1): Reveals natural or primitive traps.
Speak with Animals (Level 1): You can communicate with animals.
Augury M F (Level 2): Learns whether an action will be good or bad.
Find Traps (Level 2): Notice traps as a rogue does.
Status (Level 2): Monitors condition, position of allies.
Locate Object (Level 3): Senses direction toward object (specific or type).
Speak with Dead (Level 3): Corpse answers one question/two levels.
Speak with Plants (Level 3): You can talk to normal plants and plant creatures.
Discern Lies (Level 4): Reveals deliberate falsehoods.
Divination M (Level 4): Provides useful advice for specific proposed actions.
Sending (Level 4): Delivers short message anywhere, instantly.
Tongues (Level 4): Speak any language.
Commune X (Level 5): Deity answers one yes-or-no question/level.
Commune with Nature (Level 5): Learn about terrain for 1 mile/level.
Scrying F (Level 5): Spies on subject from a distance.
True Seeing M (Level 5): Lets you see all things as they really are.
Find the Path (Level 6): Shows most direct way to a location.
Scrying, Greater (Level 7): As scrying, but faster and longer.
Discern Location (Level 8): Reveals exact location of creature or object.

8. Elemental
Create Water (Level 0): Creates 2 gallons/level of pure water.
Light (Level 0): Object shines like a torch.
Mending (Level 0): Makes minor repairs on an object.
Produce Flame (Level 1): 1d6 damage +1/level, touch or thrown.
Make Whole (Level 2): Repairs an object.
Fire Trap M (Level 2): Opened object deals 1d4 +1/level damage.
Flame Blade (Level 2): Touch attack deals 1d8 +1/two levels damage.
Flaming Sphere (Level 2): Creates rolling ball of fire, 2d6 damage, lasts 1 round/level.
Heat Metal (Level 2): Make metal so hot it damages those who touch it.
Shatter (Level 2): Sonic vibration damages objects or crystalline creatures.
Soften Earth and Stone (Level 2): Turns stone to clay or dirt to sand or mud.
Sound Burst (Level 2): Deals 1d8 sonic damage to subjects; may stun them.
Meld into Stone (Level 3): You and your gear merge with stone.
Stone Shape (Level 3): Sculpts stone into any shape.
Water Breathing (Level 3): Subjects can breathe underwater.
Water Walk (Level 3): Subject treads on water as if solid.
Wind Wall (Level 3): Deflects arrows, smaller creatures, and gases.
Air Walk (Level 4): Subject treads on air as if solid (climb at 45-degree angle).
Freedom of Movement (Level 4): Subject moves normally despite impediments.
Spike Stones (Level 4): Creatures in area take 1d8 damage, may be slowed.
Transmute Mud to Rock (Level 5): Transforms two 10-ft. cubes per level.
Transmute Rock to Mud (Level 5): Transforms two 10-ft. cubes per level.
Wall of Fire (Level 5): Deals 2d4 fire damage out to 10 ft. and 1d4 out to 20 ft. Passing through wall
deals 2d6 damage +1/level.
Wall of Stone (Level 5): Creates a stone wall that can be shaped.
Move Earth (Level 6): Digs trenches and builds hills.
Wind Walk (Level 6): You and your allies turn vaporous and travel fast.
Fire Storm (Level 7): Deals 1d6/level fire damage.
Earthquake (Level 8): Intense tremor shakes 5-ft./level radius.
Elemental Swarm (Level 9): Summons multiple elementals.
Implosion (Level 9): Kills one creature/round.
Storm of Vengeance (Level 9): Storm rains acid, lightning, and hail.

10. Healing
Cure Minor Wounds (Level 0): Cures 1 point of damage.
Cure Light Wounds (Level 1): Cures 1d8 damage +1/level (max +5).
Cure Moderate Wounds (Level 2): Cures 2d8 damage +1/level (max +10).
Delay Poison (Level 2): Stops poison from harming subject for 1 hour/level.
Cure Serious Wounds (Level 3): Cures 3d8 damage +1/level (max +15).
Remove Blindness/Deafness (Level 3): Cures normal or magical conditions.
Remove Disease (Level 3): Cures all diseases affecting subject.
Cure Critical Wounds (Level 4): Cures 4d8 damage +1/level (max +20).
Neutralize Poison (Level 4): Immunizes subject against poison, detoxifies venom in or on subject.
Restoration M (Level 4): Restores level and ability score drains.
Cure Light Wounds, Mass (Level 5): Cures 1d8 damage +1/level for many creatures.
Cure Moderate Wounds, Mass (Level 6): Cures 2d8 damage +1/level for many creatures.
Heal (Level 6): Cures 10 points/level of damage, all diseases and mental conditions.
Cure Serious Wounds, Mass (Level 7): Cures 3d8 damage +1/level for many creatures.
Regenerate (Level 7): Subject’s severed limbs grow back, cures 4d8 damage +1/level (max +35).
Restoration, Greater X (Level 7): As restoration, plus restores all levels and ability scores.
Resurrection M (Level 7): Fully restore dead subject.
Cure Critical Wounds, Mass (Level 8): Cures 4d8 damage +1/level for many creatures.
Heal, Mass (Level 9): As heal, but with several subjects.
True Resurrection M (Level 9): As resurrection, plus remains aren’t needed.

13. Protection
Resistance (Level 0): Subject gains +1 on saving throws.
Endure Elements (Level 1): Exist comfortably in hot or cold environments.
Entropic Shield (Level 1): Ranged attacks against you have 20% miss chance.
Hide from Undead (Level 1): Undead can’t perceive one subject/level.
Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law (Level 1): +2 to AC and saves, counter mind control, hedge
out elementals and outsiders.
Sanctuary (Level 1): Opponents can’t attack you, and you can’t attack.
Shield of Faith (Level 1): Aura grants +2 or higher deflection bonus.
Remove Paralysis (Level 2): Frees one or more creatures from paralysis or slow effect.
Resist Energy (Level 2): Ignores 10 (or more) points of damage/attack from specified energy type.
Restoration, Lesser (Level 2): Dispels magical ability penalty or repairs 1d4 ability damage.
Shield Other F (Level 2): You take half of subject’s damage.
Undetectable Alignment (Level 2): Conceals alignment for 24 hours.
Dispel Magic (Level 3): Cancels spells and magical effects.
Invisibility Purge (Level 3): Dispels invisibility within 5 ft./level.
Magic Vestment (Level 3): Armor or shield gains +1 enhancement per four levels.
Magic Circle against Chaos/Evil/Good/Law (Level 3): As protection spells, but 10-ft. radius and 10
min./level.
Obscure Object (Level 3): Masks object against scrying.
Protection from Energy (Level 3): Absorb 12 points/level of damage from one kind of energy.
Remove Curse (Level 3): Frees object or person from curse.
Death Ward (Level 4): Grants immunity to death spells and negative energy effects.
Dismissal (Level 4): Forces a creature to return to native plane.
Repel Vermin (Level 4): Insects, spiders, and other vermin stay 10 ft. away.
Spell Immunity (Level 4): Subject is immune to one spell per four levels.
Break Enchantment (Level 5): Frees subjects from enchantments, alterations, curses, and petrifica-
tion.
Dispel Chaos/Evil/Good/Law (Level 5): +4 bonus against attacks.
Spell Resistance (Level 5): Subject gains SR 12 + level.
Antilife Shell (Level 6): 10-ft. field hedges out living creatures.
Banishment (Level 6): Banishes 2 HD/level of extraplanar creatures.
Dispel Magic, Greater (Level 6): As dispel magic, but up to +20 on check.
Forbiddance M (Level 6): Blocks planar travel, damages creatures of different alignment.
Repulsion (Level 7): Creatures can’t approach you.
Antimagic Field (Level 8): Negates magic within 10 ft.
Cloak of Chaos F (Level 8): +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against lawful spells.
Dimensional Lock (Level 8): Teleportation and interplanar travel blocked for one day/level.
Holy Aura F (Level 8): +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against evil spells.
Shield of Law F (Level 8): +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against chaotic spells.
Spell Immunity, Greater (Level 8): As spell immunity, but up to 8th-level spells.
Unholy Aura F (Level 8): +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against good spells.

Spoiler: Your 0-4th Level Spheres

Show

2. Animal
Calm Animals (Level 1): Calms (2d4 + level) HD of animals.
Charm Animal (Level 1): Makes one animal your friend.
Detect Animals or Plants (Level 1): Detects kinds of animals or plants.
Hide from Animals (Level 1): Animals can’t perceive one subject/level.
Speak with Animals (Level 1): You can communicate with animals.
Animal Messenger (Level 2): Sends a Tiny animal to a specific place.
Animal Trance (Level 2): Fascinates 2d6 HD of animals.
Hold Animal (Level 2): Paralyzes one animal for 1 round/level.
Reduce Animal (Level 2): Shrinks one willing animal.
Dominate Animal (Level 3): Subject animal obeys silent mental commands.
Summon Swarm (Level 3): Summons swarm of bats, rats, or spiders.
Giant Vermin (Level 4): Turns centipedes, scorpions, or spiders into giant vermin.
Repel Vermin (Level 4): Insects, spiders, and other vermin stay 10 ft. away.
Animal Growth (Level 5): One animal/two levels doubles in size.
Awaken X (Level 5): Animal or tree gains human intellect. [Anm. Manu: hier nur Tier]
Insect Plague (Level 5): Locust swarms attack creatures.
Creeping Doom (Level 7): Swarms of centipedes attack at your command.
Animal Shapes (Level 8): One ally/level polymorphs into chosen animal.
Summon Nature’s Ally I (Level 1): Calls creature to fight.
Summon Nature’s Ally II (Level 2): Calls creature to fight.
Summon Nature’s Ally III (Level 3): Calls creature to fight.
Summon Nature’s Ally IV (Level 4): Calls creature to fight.
Summon Nature’s Ally V (Level 5): Calls creature to fight.
Summon Nature’s Ally VI (Level 6): Calls creature to fight.
Summon Nature’s Ally VII (Level 7): Calls creature to fight.
Summon Nature’s Ally VIII (Level 8): Calls creature to fight.
Summon Nature’s Ally IX (Level 9): Calls creature to fight.

5. Combat
Guidance (Level 0): +1 on one attack roll, saving throw, or skill check.
Divine Favor (Level 1): You gain +1 per three levels on attack and damage rolls.
Magic Stone (Level 1): Three stones gain +1 on attack, deal 1d6 +1 damage.
Magic Weapon (Level 1): Weapon gains +1 bonus.
Bear’s Endurance (Level 2): Subject gains +4 to Con for 1 min./level.
Bull’s Strength (Level 2): Subject gains +4 to Str for 1 min./level.
Eagle’s Splendor (Level 2): Subject gains +4 to Cha for 1 min./level.
Owl’s Wisdom (Level 2): Subject gains +4 to Wis for 1 min./level.
Spiritual Weapon (Level 2): Magic weapon attacks on its own.
Prayer (Level 3): Allies +1 bonus on most rolls, enemies –1 penalty.
Divine Power (Level 4): You gain attack bonus, +6 to Str, and 1 hp/level.
Magic Weapon, Greater (Level 4): +1 bonus/four levels (max +5).
Flame Strike (Level 5): Smite foes with divine fire (1d6/level damage).
Insect Plague (Level 5): Locust swarms attack creatures.
Righteous Might (Level 5): Your size increases, and you gain combat bonuses.
Bear’s Endurance, Mass (Level 6): As bear’s endurance, affects one subject/level.
Bull’s Strength, Mass (Level 6): As bull’s strength, affects one subject/level.
Eagle’s Splendor, Mass (Level 6): As eagle’s splendor, affects one subject/level.
Owl’s Wisdom, Mass (Level 6): As owl’s wisdom, affects one subject/level.
Holy Word (Level 7): Kills, paralyzes, blinds, or deafens nongood subjects.

11. Necromantic
Inflict Minor Wounds (Level 0): Touch attack, 1 point of damage.
Virtue (Level 0): Subject gains 1 temporary hp.
Curse Water M (Level 1): Makes unholy water.
Hide from Undead (Level 1): Undead can’t perceive one subject/level.
Inflict Light Wounds (Level 1): Touch deals 1d8 damage +1/level (max +5).
Deathwatch (Level 1): Reveals how near death subjects within 30 ft. are.
Aid (Level 2): +1 on attack rolls and saves against fear, 1d8 temporary hp +1/level (max +10).
Death Knell (Level 2): Kills dying creature; you gain 1d8 temporary hp, +2 to Str, and +1 level.
Desecrate M (Level 2): Fills area with negative energy, making undead stronger.
Gentle Repose (Level 2): Preserves one corpse.
Inflict Moderate Wounds (Level 2): Touch attack, 2d8 damage +1/level (max +10).
Animate Dead M (Level 3): Creates undead skeletons and zombies.
Contagion (Level 3): Infects subject with chosen disease.
Inflict Serious Wounds (Level 3): Touch attack, 3d8 damage +1/level (max+15).
Inflict Critical Wounds (Level 4): Touch attack, 4d8 damage +1/level (max+20).
Poison (Level 4): Touch deals 1d10 Con damage, repeats in 1 min.
Reincarnate (Level 4): Brings dead subject back in a random body.
Inflict Light Wounds, Mass (Level 5): Deals 1d8 damage +1/level to many creatures.
Raise Dead M (Level 5): Restores life to subject who died as long as one day/level ago.
Slay Living (Level 5): Touch attack kills subject.
Create Undead (Level 6): Create ghouls, ghasts, mummies, or mohrgs.
Harm (Level 6): Deals 10 points/level damage to target.
Inflict Moderate Wounds, Mass (Level 6): Deals 2d8 damage +1/level to many creatures.
Inflict Serious Wounds, Mass (Level 7): Deals 3d8 damage +1/level to many creatures.
Inflict Critical Wounds, Mass (Level 8): Deals 4d8 damage +1/level to many creatures.
Create Greater Undead M (Level 8): Create shadows, wraiths, spectres, or devourers.
Unholy Aura F (Level 8): +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against good spells.
Energy Drain (Level 9): Subject gains 2d4 negative levels.
Soul Bind (Level 9): Traps newly dead soul to prevent resurrection.

16. Weather
Faerie Fire (Level 1): Outlines subjects with light, canceling blur, concealment, and the like.
Obscuring Mist (Level 1): Fog surrounds you.
Fog Cloud (Level 2): Fog obscures vision.
Gust of Wind (Level 2): Blows away or knocks down smaller creatures.
Call Lightning (Level 3): Calls down lightning bolts (3d6 per bolt) from sky.
Control Water (Level 4): Raises or lowers bodies of water.
Call Lightning Storm (Level 5): As call lightning, but 5d6 damage per bolt.
Control Winds (Level 5): Change wind direction and speed.
Control Weather (Level 7): Changes weather in local area.
Storm of Vengeance (Level 9): Storm rains acid, lightning, and hail.

[Mykerinos]

If you think your party has enough melee heavies and you want to lean on the casting more, then you can easily skip the fighter feats entirely and be a caster-blaster type with higher Wis. In that case, you could actually go all the way down to 14 Strength and put the savings into Wis and Cha, and replace Power Attack with Improved Turning, Spell Penetration, Spell Focus (evocation), or a metamagic feat for later. Or just switch your race to dwarf, gnome, or halfling to get some racial abilities. With lower Strength and no dedicated sword feats, the weapon will be more of a secondary option, and your focus will be more on buffing your friends and then unloading attack and/or disruption spells.

BTW the spelling is rogue, not rouge.

Okay. Thank you. "Rouge" did look odd, should have checked. Strange the autocorrect didn't pick it up though.

I think I won't change the character radically, since we already started playing. And looking at what the others wrote, I guess the party needs another tank.

So STR to 18, INT to 8, WIS to 15, CON to 12, take Cleave and drop Knowledge Religion? That's roughly what I gather from your previous replies. Sorry if I missed something.

Character got knocked out by an Orc with a nasty Falchion in the first battle BTW but survived. I enjoy playing him. Thanks again for all your help :-)

[Mykerinos]

With those spheres, you are never going to be a caster.

Matter of fact there really isn’t a reason for Wisdom higher than 14 or really going beyond Level 7, unless you want to get Resurrection and Heal.

You are limited to the spells you can cast by the spheres, and there really isn’t anything that you need a high Wisdom to make your enemy’s saving throws difficult, nor anything powerful beyond 4th Level Restoration making it worth it. You have Reincarnation from Necromancy, so that will do, even if it pisses people off, it is the DM’s fault for not making it worth going higher. You can’t even summon well.

This alone changes your abilities, because now you only need 13 Wisdom to start, and taking the wisdom increase at level 4 will get you 4th level spells in time for 7th level.

I would make your stats as follows:
STR - 18 (Combat Cleric)
DEX - 8 (You’ll need to get a +2 Buff for Half-Plate and +4 Buff for Full-Plate)
CON - 16 (You can really use Shield Other, and that can be a good tactic.)
INT - 10 (Almost thought about increasing over CHA)
WIS - 13 (You’ll never have high level Cleric Spells)
CHA - 10 (Not Negative to hurt your Diplomacy)

This makes going 7 or 8 levels plausible, and then switching to something like Fighter or Barbarian.

However, I would recommend picking up Craft Wondrous Item and Craft Magic Arms and Armor, as you can craft most everything that is really important for adventuring.

Basically, I would use Faerie Fire and Obscuring Mist tactic, as well as Shield Other.

What Domains did you take? I expected Travel and Trickery, which also doesn’t change going higher either.

That sounds good. A bit more extreme in terms of attributes than what I had in mind, but perhaps I should dump DEX to boost CON. And yes, I see your point about WIS.

Regarding the domains - I would have loved to. Take travel and trickery but there weren't any suitable evil war deities. I had to take a combat cleric with war domain to get around the hit die nerf (d8 to d6) and armor nerf (only light armor). Moreover, only the evil gods are powerful in the GM's world. Cleric's of good or neutral deities lose caster levels every couple of levels.

The only other useful domain in the God's portfolio was Fire. So I now have war and fire.

I will consider the option of switching to fighter later on. Pity the trip built won't be an option for later on with DEX 8. Guess it would be power attack and perhaps rage all the way then later.

Thanks for the useful advice :-)

[Mykerinos]

I'd still recommend dumping your Int to an extra low minimal given the houserules. You end up with 2 skills instead of 3 on a human, which is ok. For party face, the Rogue or the Monk can do that, and better, since they can take Sense Motive as well---without that the face is also a sucker. Knowledge[Religion] also doesn't seem super necessary.

The Fighter is a frontliner, but the Rogue and the Monk need help in core. For the Rogue, it's about setting up flanks.

An effective core-only monk is pretty tough. They need a high strength, dexterity, and wisdom with a reasonable constitution. If I have the houserules right, that implies likely low charisma and low intelligence, so probably the rogue should be the face. The Monk in particular may benefit significantly from whatever buffing spells you can cast on it.

Overall, I think it's reasonable to have a second solid frontliner.

Thanks for the input. I don't want to drop INT that low for roleplaying reasons. Our GM will take every opportunity to remind me of my limited mental faculties and I don't need that ;-)

But I do believe you are right regarding the need for a second solid frontliner.

Thank you.

[Mykerinos]

Basically Highlighted in Blue what you would be able to cast that is good, and in Red what you would need higher Wisdom.

I lined out what you don’t get in the 0-4th list.

You really should try to get silence or the guardian sphere.

Spoiler: Your Full Spheres

Show

1. All
Purify Food and Drink (Level 0): Purifies 1 cu. ft./level of food or water.
Bless (Level 1): Allies gain +1 on attack rolls and saves against fear.
Bless Water M (Level 1): Makes holy water.
Detect Chaos/Evil/Good/Law (Level 1): Reveals creatures, spells, or objects of selected alignment.
Align Weapon (Level 2): Weapon becomes good, evil, lawful, or chaotic.
Atonement F X (Level 5): Removes burden of misdeeds from subject.
Hallow M (Level 5): Designates location as holy.
Unhallow M (Level 5): Designates location as unholy.
Miracle X (Level 9): Requests a deity’s intercession.

7. Divination
Detect Magic (Level 0): Detects spells and magic items within 60 ft.
Detect Poison (Level 0): Detects poison in one creature or object.
Know Direction (Level 0): You discern north.
Read Magic (Level 0): Read scrolls and spellbooks.
Comprehend Languages (Level 1): You understand all spoken and written languages.
Detect Undead (Level 1): Reveals undead within 60 ft.
Detect Snares and Pits (Level 1): Reveals natural or primitive traps.
Speak with Animals (Level 1): You can communicate with animals.
Augury M F (Level 2): Learns whether an action will be good or bad.
Find Traps (Level 2): Notice traps as a rogue does.
Status (Level 2): Monitors condition, position of allies.
Locate Object (Level 3): Senses direction toward object (specific or type).
Speak with Dead (Level 3): Corpse answers one question/two levels.
Speak with Plants (Level 3): You can talk to normal plants and plant creatures.
Discern Lies (Level 4): Reveals deliberate falsehoods.
Divination M (Level 4): Provides useful advice for specific proposed actions.
Sending (Level 4): Delivers short message anywhere, instantly.
Tongues (Level 4): Speak any language.
Commune X (Level 5): Deity answers one yes-or-no question/level.
Commune with Nature (Level 5): Learn about terrain for 1 mile/level.
Scrying F (Level 5): Spies on subject from a distance.
True Seeing M (Level 5): Lets you see all things as they really are.
Find the Path (Level 6): Shows most direct way to a location.
Scrying, Greater (Level 7): As scrying, but faster and longer.
Discern Location (Level 8): Reveals exact location of creature or object.

8. Elemental
Create Water (Level 0): Creates 2 gallons/level of pure water.
Light (Level 0): Object shines like a torch.
Mending (Level 0): Makes minor repairs on an object.
Produce Flame (Level 1): 1d6 damage +1/level, touch or thrown.
Make Whole (Level 2): Repairs an object.
Fire Trap M (Level 2): Opened object deals 1d4 +1/level damage.
Flame Blade (Level 2): Touch attack deals 1d8 +1/two levels damage.
Flaming Sphere (Level 2): Creates rolling ball of fire, 2d6 damage, lasts 1 round/level.
Heat Metal (Level 2): Make metal so hot it damages those who touch it.
Shatter (Level 2): Sonic vibration damages objects or crystalline creatures.
Soften Earth and Stone (Level 2): Turns stone to clay or dirt to sand or mud.
Sound Burst (Level 2): Deals 1d8 sonic damage to subjects; may stun them.
Meld into Stone (Level 3): You and your gear merge with stone.
Stone Shape (Level 3): Sculpts stone into any shape.
Water Breathing (Level 3): Subjects can breathe underwater.
Water Walk (Level 3): Subject treads on water as if solid.
Wind Wall (Level 3): Deflects arrows, smaller creatures, and gases.
Air Walk (Level 4): Subject treads on air as if solid (climb at 45-degree angle).
Freedom of Movement (Level 4): Subject moves normally despite impediments.
Spike Stones (Level 4): Creatures in area take 1d8 damage, may be slowed.
Transmute Mud to Rock (Level 5): Transforms two 10-ft. cubes per level.
Transmute Rock to Mud (Level 5): Transforms two 10-ft. cubes per level.
Wall of Fire (Level 5): Deals 2d4 fire damage out to 10 ft. and 1d4 out to 20 ft. Passing through wall
deals 2d6 damage +1/level.
Wall of Stone (Level 5): Creates a stone wall that can be shaped.
Move Earth (Level 6): Digs trenches and builds hills.
Wind Walk (Level 6): You and your allies turn vaporous and travel fast.
Fire Storm (Level 7): Deals 1d6/level fire damage.
Earthquake (Level 8): Intense tremor shakes 5-ft./level radius.
Elemental Swarm (Level 9): Summons multiple elementals.
Implosion (Level 9): Kills one creature/round.
Storm of Vengeance (Level 9): Storm rains acid, lightning, and hail.

10. Healing
Cure Minor Wounds (Level 0): Cures 1 point of damage.
Cure Light Wounds (Level 1): Cures 1d8 damage +1/level (max +5).
Cure Moderate Wounds (Level 2): Cures 2d8 damage +1/level (max +10).
Delay Poison (Level 2): Stops poison from harming subject for 1 hour/level.
Cure Serious Wounds (Level 3): Cures 3d8 damage +1/level (max +15).
Remove Blindness/Deafness (Level 3): Cures normal or magical conditions.
Remove Disease (Level 3): Cures all diseases affecting subject.
Cure Critical Wounds (Level 4): Cures 4d8 damage +1/level (max +20).
Neutralize Poison (Level 4): Immunizes subject against poison, detoxifies venom in or on subject.
Restoration M (Level 4): Restores level and ability score drains.
Cure Light Wounds, Mass (Level 5): Cures 1d8 damage +1/level for many creatures.
Cure Moderate Wounds, Mass (Level 6): Cures 2d8 damage +1/level for many creatures.
Heal (Level 6): Cures 10 points/level of damage, all diseases and mental conditions.
Cure Serious Wounds, Mass (Level 7): Cures 3d8 damage +1/level for many creatures.
Regenerate (Level 7): Subject’s severed limbs grow back, cures 4d8 damage +1/level (max +35).
Restoration, Greater X (Level 7): As restoration, plus restores all levels and ability scores.
Resurrection M (Level 7): Fully restore dead subject.
Cure Critical Wounds, Mass (Level 8): Cures 4d8 damage +1/level for many creatures.
Heal, Mass (Level 9): As heal, but with several subjects.
True Resurrection M (Level 9): As resurrection, plus remains aren’t needed.

13. Protection
Resistance (Level 0): Subject gains +1 on saving throws.
Endure Elements (Level 1): Exist comfortably in hot or cold environments.
Entropic Shield (Level 1): Ranged attacks against you have 20% miss chance.
Hide from Undead (Level 1): Undead can’t perceive one subject/level.
Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law (Level 1): +2 to AC and saves, counter mind control, hedge
out elementals and outsiders.
Sanctuary (Level 1): Opponents can’t attack you, and you can’t attack.
Shield of Faith (Level 1): Aura grants +2 or higher deflection bonus.
Remove Paralysis (Level 2): Frees one or more creatures from paralysis or slow effect.
Resist Energy (Level 2): Ignores 10 (or more) points of damage/attack from specified energy type.
Restoration, Lesser (Level 2): Dispels magical ability penalty or repairs 1d4 ability damage.
Shield Other F (Level 2): You take half of subject’s damage.
Undetectable Alignment (Level 2): Conceals alignment for 24 hours.
Dispel Magic (Level 3): Cancels spells and magical effects.
Invisibility Purge (Level 3): Dispels invisibility within 5 ft./level.
Magic Vestment (Level 3): Armor or shield gains +1 enhancement per four levels.
Magic Circle against Chaos/Evil/Good/Law (Level 3): As protection spells, but 10-ft. radius and 10
min./level.
Obscure Object (Level 3): Masks object against scrying.
Protection from Energy (Level 3): Absorb 12 points/level of damage from one kind of energy.
Remove Curse (Level 3): Frees object or person from curse.
Death Ward (Level 4): Grants immunity to death spells and negative energy effects.
Dismissal (Level 4): Forces a creature to return to native plane.
Repel Vermin (Level 4): Insects, spiders, and other vermin stay 10 ft. away.
Spell Immunity (Level 4): Subject is immune to one spell per four levels.
Break Enchantment (Level 5): Frees subjects from enchantments, alterations, curses, and petrifica-
tion.
Dispel Chaos/Evil/Good/Law (Level 5): +4 bonus against attacks.
Spell Resistance (Level 5): Subject gains SR 12 + level.
Antilife Shell (Level 6): 10-ft. field hedges out living creatures.
Banishment (Level 6): Banishes 2 HD/level of extraplanar creatures.
Dispel Magic, Greater (Level 6): As dispel magic, but up to +20 on check.
Forbiddance M (Level 6): Blocks planar travel, damages creatures of different alignment.
Repulsion (Level 7): Creatures can’t approach you.
Antimagic Field (Level 8): Negates magic within 10 ft.
Cloak of Chaos F (Level 8): +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against lawful spells.
Dimensional Lock (Level 8): Teleportation and interplanar travel blocked for one day/level.
Holy Aura F (Level 8): +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against evil spells.
Shield of Law F (Level 8): +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against chaotic spells.
Spell Immunity, Greater (Level 8): As spell immunity, but up to 8th-level spells.
Unholy Aura F (Level 8): +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against good spells.

Spoiler: Your 0-4th Level Spheres

Show

2. Animal
Calm Animals (Level 1): Calms (2d4 + level) HD of animals.
Charm Animal (Level 1): Makes one animal your friend.
Detect Animals or Plants (Level 1): Detects kinds of animals or plants.
Hide from Animals (Level 1): Animals can’t perceive one subject/level.
Speak with Animals (Level 1): You can communicate with animals.
Animal Messenger (Level 2): Sends a Tiny animal to a specific place.
Animal Trance (Level 2): Fascinates 2d6 HD of animals.
Hold Animal (Level 2): Paralyzes one animal for 1 round/level.
Reduce Animal (Level 2): Shrinks one willing animal.
Dominate Animal (Level 3): Subject animal obeys silent mental commands.
Summon Swarm (Level 3): Summons swarm of bats, rats, or spiders.
Giant Vermin (Level 4): Turns centipedes, scorpions, or spiders into giant vermin.
Repel Vermin (Level 4): Insects, spiders, and other vermin stay 10 ft. away.
Animal Growth (Level 5): One animal/two levels doubles in size.
Awaken X (Level 5): Animal or tree gains human intellect. [Anm. Manu: hier nur Tier]
Insect Plague (Level 5): Locust swarms attack creatures.
Creeping Doom (Level 7): Swarms of centipedes attack at your command.
Animal Shapes (Level 8): One ally/level polymorphs into chosen animal.
Summon Nature’s Ally I (Level 1): Calls creature to fight.
Summon Nature’s Ally II (Level 2): Calls creature to fight.
Summon Nature’s Ally III (Level 3): Calls creature to fight.
Summon Nature’s Ally IV (Level 4): Calls creature to fight.
Summon Nature’s Ally V (Level 5): Calls creature to fight.
Summon Nature’s Ally VI (Level 6): Calls creature to fight.
Summon Nature’s Ally VII (Level 7): Calls creature to fight.
Summon Nature’s Ally VIII (Level 8): Calls creature to fight.
Summon Nature’s Ally IX (Level 9): Calls creature to fight.

5. Combat
Guidance (Level 0): +1 on one attack roll, saving throw, or skill check.
Divine Favor (Level 1): You gain +1 per three levels on attack and damage rolls.
Magic Stone (Level 1): Three stones gain +1 on attack, deal 1d6 +1 damage.
Magic Weapon (Level 1): Weapon gains +1 bonus.
Bear’s Endurance (Level 2): Subject gains +4 to Con for 1 min./level.
Bull’s Strength (Level 2): Subject gains +4 to Str for 1 min./level.
Eagle’s Splendor (Level 2): Subject gains +4 to Cha for 1 min./level.
Owl’s Wisdom (Level 2): Subject gains +4 to Wis for 1 min./level.
Spiritual Weapon (Level 2): Magic weapon attacks on its own.
Prayer (Level 3): Allies +1 bonus on most rolls, enemies –1 penalty.
Divine Power (Level 4): You gain attack bonus, +6 to Str, and 1 hp/level.
Magic Weapon, Greater (Level 4): +1 bonus/four levels (max +5).
Flame Strike (Level 5): Smite foes with divine fire (1d6/level damage).
Insect Plague (Level 5): Locust swarms attack creatures.
Righteous Might (Level 5): Your size increases, and you gain combat bonuses.
Bear’s Endurance, Mass (Level 6): As bear’s endurance, affects one subject/level.
Bull’s Strength, Mass (Level 6): As bull’s strength, affects one subject/level.
Eagle’s Splendor, Mass (Level 6): As eagle’s splendor, affects one subject/level.
Owl’s Wisdom, Mass (Level 6): As owl’s wisdom, affects one subject/level.
Holy Word (Level 7): Kills, paralyzes, blinds, or deafens nongood subjects.

11. Necromantic
Inflict Minor Wounds (Level 0): Touch attack, 1 point of damage.
Virtue (Level 0): Subject gains 1 temporary hp.
Curse Water M (Level 1): Makes unholy water.
Hide from Undead (Level 1): Undead can’t perceive one subject/level.
Inflict Light Wounds (Level 1): Touch deals 1d8 damage +1/level (max +5).
Deathwatch (Level 1): Reveals how near death subjects within 30 ft. are.
Aid (Level 2): +1 on attack rolls and saves against fear, 1d8 temporary hp +1/level (max +10).
Death Knell (Level 2): Kills dying creature; you gain 1d8 temporary hp, +2 to Str, and +1 level.
Desecrate M (Level 2): Fills area with negative energy, making undead stronger.
Gentle Repose (Level 2): Preserves one corpse.
Inflict Moderate Wounds (Level 2): Touch attack, 2d8 damage +1/level (max +10).
Animate Dead M (Level 3): Creates undead skeletons and zombies.
Contagion (Level 3): Infects subject with chosen disease.
Inflict Serious Wounds (Level 3): Touch attack, 3d8 damage +1/level (max+15).
Inflict Critical Wounds (Level 4): Touch attack, 4d8 damage +1/level (max+20).
Poison (Level 4): Touch deals 1d10 Con damage, repeats in 1 min.
Reincarnate (Level 4): Brings dead subject back in a random body.
Inflict Light Wounds, Mass (Level 5): Deals 1d8 damage +1/level to many creatures.
Raise Dead M (Level 5): Restores life to subject who died as long as one day/level ago.
Slay Living (Level 5): Touch attack kills subject.
Create Undead (Level 6): Create ghouls, ghasts, mummies, or mohrgs.
Harm (Level 6): Deals 10 points/level damage to target.
Inflict Moderate Wounds, Mass (Level 6): Deals 2d8 damage +1/level to many creatures.
Inflict Serious Wounds, Mass (Level 7): Deals 3d8 damage +1/level to many creatures.
Inflict Critical Wounds, Mass (Level 8): Deals 4d8 damage +1/level to many creatures.
Create Greater Undead M (Level 8): Create shadows, wraiths, spectres, or devourers.
Unholy Aura F (Level 8): +4 to AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against good spells.
Energy Drain (Level 9): Subject gains 2d4 negative levels.
Soul Bind (Level 9): Traps newly dead soul to prevent resurrection.

16. Weather
Faerie Fire (Level 1): Outlines subjects with light, canceling blur, concealment, and the like.
Obscuring Mist (Level 1): Fog surrounds you.
Fog Cloud (Level 2): Fog obscures vision.
Gust of Wind (Level 2): Blows away or knocks down smaller creatures.
Call Lightning (Level 3): Calls down lightning bolts (3d6 per bolt) from sky.
Control Water (Level 4): Raises or lowers bodies of water.
Call Lightning Storm (Level 5): As call lightning, but 5d6 damage per bolt.
Control Winds (Level 5): Change wind direction and speed.
Control Weather (Level 7): Changes weather in local area.
Storm of Vengeance (Level 9): Storm rains acid, lightning, and hail.

There really aren't that many spells that require WIS, you are right. As for the domains, I understand that silence would be important, but I think I will stay with my current domains. Don't want to make my GM mad
Already had to negotiate quite a bit to get the (partial) animal domain. Perhaps I can get silence in a different way (like a rod or so)?

[bean illus]

I'd still recommend dumping your Int to an extra low minimal given the houserules. You end up with 2 skills instead of 3 on a human, which is ok. For party face, the Rogue or the Monk can do that, and better, since they can take Sense Motive as well---without that the face is also a sucker. Knowledge[Religion] also doesn't seem super necessary.

The Fighter is a frontliner, but the Rogue and the Monk need help in core. For the Rogue, it's about setting up flanks.

An effective core-only monk is pretty tough. They need a high strength, dexterity, and wisdom with a reasonable constitution. If I have the houserules right, that implies likely low charisma and low intelligence, so probably the rogue should be the face. The Monk in particular may benefit significantly from whatever buffing spells you can cast on it.

Overall, I think it's reasonable to have a second solid frontliner.

hmmmm. Rogue works best with flankers, monks with buffing. That's thinking from their side.

Okay. Thank you. "Rouge" did look odd, should have checked. Strange the autocorrect didn't pick it up though.

It didn't autocorrect because rouge is a word. It's a makeup: a blush, for the cheeks.

I think I won't change the character radically, since we already started playing. And looking at what the others wrote, I guess the party needs another tank.

So STR to 18, INT to 8, WIS to 15, CON to 12, take Cleave and drop Knowledge Religion? That's roughly what I gather from your previous replies. Sorry if I missed something.

Character got knocked out by an Orc with a nasty Falchion in the first battle BTW but survived. I enjoy playing him. Thanks again for all your help :-)

You could take advantage of the point buy houserule, and snag two 18s for physical stats. This follows Mr Anderson's idea of "Combat Cleric". Keep adding wisdom, and you'll easily get your spells.

18 18 12 - 8 13 6
18 16 12 - 10 13 6
18 14 16 - 8 13 6

H Improved Initiative
1 Combat Reflexes
3 Power Attack
6 Cleave
9 Craft Wondrous Item
12 Quicken (Divine Favor)

Edit: Feats rearranged

The idea here is, that going first is very powerful, and fun for a buffer/caster. So that spell that you keep saying "that takes a standard action", with high Dex AND imp init you can cast it almost every time.

Additionally, of course your AC it's nice, and assuming you can find mithral it stays nice. And, the combination of Cleave, Combat Reflexes, and later Divine Power, will give you more strikes then your opponents are happy about.

But I do believe you are right regarding the need for a second solid frontliner.

I will consider the option of switching to fighter later on. Pity the trip built won't be an option for later on with DEX 8. Guess it would be power attack and perhaps rage all the way then later. :-)

The trip build is, imo, still very feasible, but i might squeeze the fighter level in sooner than later.

Anyway, i hope you enjoy your game. Maybe keep us updated? I hope I've not confused things.

That's just me, taking to myself. I don't expect anyone to think I'm the smartest opimizer.

[Anthrowhale]

...

Note that Cleave has Power Attack as a prerequisite.

[MR_Anderson]

That sounds good. A bit more extreme in terms of attributes than what I had in mind, but perhaps I should dump DEX to boost CON. And yes, I see your point about WIS.

Regarding the domains - I would have loved to. Take travel and trickery but there weren't any suitable evil war deities. I had to take a combat cleric with war domain to get around the hit die nerf (d8 to d6) and armor nerf (only light armor). Moreover, only the evil gods are powerful in the GM's world. Cleric's of good or neutral deities lose caster levels every couple of levels.

The only other useful domain in the God's portfolio was Fire. So I now have war and fire.

I will consider the option of switching to fighter later on. Pity the trip built won't be an option for later on with DEX 8. Guess it would be power attack and perhaps rage all the way then later.

Thanks for the useful advice :-)

I never like to play characters who wear heavier than Light Armor, because there is something called touch attacks, but when you are playing with 75 points, you are limited.

I wouldn’t dump DEX below 8, because at 8, you can still obtain or even craft your own wondrous item that gives you a +2 or +4 as needed to match the armor you wear. At 8 you are the minimum cast for a Bull’s Strength spell to max your dex bonus on Half-Plate.

NOTE: Since we play 3.0~3.5 I got my DM to agree to the Hour/Level long version to be +3 always and the Minute/Level long version to be +5. It really saves on game time because of calculating stats depending upon dice rolls. I implemented it when I DM as well, because then players can basically have two characters planned out at all times.

Fire is okay as a Domain because of the many spells not accessible, but if you do want to go higher as a caster and want to risk trying to make one last change to the character, Protection Domain would be better imho. If your god gives you the Full Protection Sphere, you should have the Protection Domain. The reason...

Mind Blank is probably one of the best spells in the game, and Clerics don’t get it unless they have the Protection Domain. The other neat trick is that you can get your DM to agree to the +3 stat spells per hour, you only have to get your Wisdom to 15 and you can then prepare and cast Mind Blank for the day after buffing with Owl’s Wisdom. You only need your Wisdom to be 10+Spell Level when you prepare it and cast it, so you can buff, prepare, then cast for the day.

Going For higher level casting just requires you to Increase WIS every 4 levels and then get a Wisdom +2 Item by 15th Level and you never fall behind if you start at 13 Wisdom, but it does make you dependent upon an item unless you get a book/manual to read, or wishes.

[Mykerinos]

Sorry for the long delay.

I finalized the character, and we played another round of my GM's campaign.

My character looks as follows now:

Human, Cleric

Domains: Fire and War

Full spheres: Elemental, Healing, Protection, Divination
Partial spheres (L1-L4): Combat, Animal, Weather, Necromancy

Str 18
Dex 12
Con 12
Int 8
Wis 15
Cha 10

Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Martial Weapon Proficiency and Weapon Focus Greatsword (War Domain)

The next feat will probably be Craft Wondrous Item. Or Craft Magic Arms and Armor? The GM announced that there won't be many magical items...

Skills: Concentration and Diplomacy (even if I can't back it up with Sense Motive.. but I can perhaps use Discern Lies later on ;-). I read I need Spellcraft.. but perhaps it is sufficient if our Sorcerer covers that skill.

Equipment: Chain Shirt, Greatsword

I asked my GM about Faerie Fire and Obscuring Mist, and he ruled that Faerie Fire will cancel concealment within 5 feet. So I could use this spell combination to decrease the to hit chance of my opponents by 20 % without being affected myself - if I understood correctly. Just not sure if it's worth the two turns of casting.

Any further tactical advice - based on my available spells - and feedback on the final character + the proposed development is highly appreciated!

Many thanks :-)

Edit: I just realized that I will need Spellcraft for the crafting feats.. so bye bye Diplomacy ;-)

[Troacctid]

Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Martial Weapon Proficiency and Weapon Focus Greatsword (War Domain)

The next feat will probably be Craft Wondrous Item. Or Craft Magic Arms and Armor? The GM announced that there won't be many magical items...

Both good choices, but only one of them is available at level 3, so if you're planning on taking it at the next opportunity, it'll have to be Craft Wondrous. If there aren't going to be many magic items, it definitely goes up in value, provided you still have access to gold.

[MR_Anderson]

Sorry for the long delay.

I finalized the character, and we played another round of my GM's campaign.

My character looks as follows now:

Human, Cleric

Domains: Fire and War

Full spheres: Elemental, Healing, Protection, Divination
Partial spheres (L1-L4): Combat, Animal, Weather, Necromancy

Str 18
Dex 12
Con 12
Int 8
Wis 15
Cha 10

Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Martial Weapon Proficiency and Weapon Focus Greatsword (War Domain)

The next feat will probably be Craft Wondrous Item. Or Craft Magic Arms and Armor? The GM announced that there won't be many magical items...

When you craft an item, craft it with the restrictions like class, level, skills, and/or alignment. You get to calculate the cost at 0.7 of the normal cost. The 30% of Gold and XP really adds up over time.

It might cause problems if you get into problems if your alignment changes or you get drained, but you will already be in trouble when that happens, but you can also prevent certain things from falling into enemy or other party member’s hands.

Skills: Concentration and Diplomacy (even if I can't back it up with Sense Motive.. but I can perhaps use Discern Lies later on ;-). I read I need Spellcraft.. but perhaps it is sufficient if our Sorcerer covers that skill.

Concentration is one of those, sucks all the time until you actually really need it. Will you even have Heal spell? I usually don’t worry about this if I’m a fighter.

Just get Sense Motive and Bluff to 5 for the synergy.

Equipment: Chain Shirt, Greatsword

Two-Handed Weapon is great!!!

I asked my GM about Faerie Fire and Obscuring Mist, and he ruled that Faerie Fire will cancel concealment within 5 feet. So I could use this spell combination to decrease the to hit chance of my opponents by 20 % without being affected myself - if I understood correctly. Just not sure if it's worth the two turns of casting.

You are basically trying to expand that 5 foot range for the tactic. If the DM disagrees, the argument is that it is magic, and the Faerie Fire spell specifically states it eliminates concealment from 2nd level spells, except Darkness (also 2nd level). Obscuring Mist is a 1st level spell, it should overcome it with no concealment, but taking a 20% could be worth it depending on the party. I mean you are spending 2 rounds for the tactic, it isn’t too abusive.

I’d ask him to make them the targets 20% concealment to anyone beyond 5 feet if he doesn’t reconsider. I mean they are a human candles shedding light, and your party should be able to fire missile weapons or spells at them somewhat.

Any further tactical advice - based on my available spells - and feedback on the final character + the proposed development is highly appreciated!

Death Knell says “Creatures”

Death Knell creatures like bugs you carry around in a jar. The +2 Strength is not an enhancement bonus, it is an unclassified bonus and thus will stack with the enhancement bonuses of Divine Power or Bull Strength.

Even if the DM hits you on 1/4 HD and reduces the duration, that is still 25 Rounds of +2 Strength per cast. 1.5 on that Greatsword!!!

Edit: I just realized that I will need Spellcraft for the crafting feats.. so bye bye Diplomacy ;-)

No you don’t, unless you are not playing 3.0-3.5, That isn’t a requirement, so you shouldn’t need it, that is unless you are incorporating rules from D&D editions after 3.5.

[Troacctid]

When you craft an item, craft it with the restrictions like class, level, skills, and/or alignment. You get to calculate the cost at 0.7 of the normal cost. The 30% of Gold and XP really adds up over time.

It might cause problems if you get into problems if your alignment changes or you get drained, but you will already be in trouble when that happens, but you can also prevent certain things from falling into enemy or other party member’s hands.

These rules are not normally available to PCs without DM permission, but in this campaign, we should expect them to be especially unavailable because they're in the DMG, and PCs only have access to the PHB.

Death Knell says “Creatures”

Death Knell creatures like bugs you carry around in a jar. The +2 Strength is not an enhancement bonus, it is an unclassified bonus and thus will stack with the enhancement bonuses of Divine Power or Bull Strength.

Even if the DM hits you on 1/4 HD and reduces the duration, that is still 25 Rounds of +2 Strength per cast. 1.5 on that Greatsword!!!

So...you want to spend DM goodwill on the bag of rats trick...so that you can spend a standard action squashing a bug...and then another standard action casting a spell on its dying body...and then maybe get a short duration buff out of it, if it fails a save from your character who didn't pump Wisdom?

[Anthrowhale]

Extend Spell is the first useful metamagic. It's useless at level 1, and ok at level 3. Picking it up by level 6 could make sense. Long duration effects (i.e. Magic Vestment, Greater Magic Weapon) last all day and eventually 2 days. Medium duration (10 minutes/level) effects apply to twice as many encounters. If you can get ahold of a metamagic rod of extend spell, that's often better than the feat (and pretty cheap as well).

Quicken Spell could be picked at level 9 or 12. Quickened Divine Favor at level 9 is pretty expensive but it's worth at least +9 damage/attack (using power attack, possibly more valuable if you need the bonus to hit). Since you are missing out on Righteous Might, Quickened Divine Favor may be quite important for effectiveness in combat.

On the magic item side, it's probably worthwhile to have a plan for how you would actually use Craft Wondrous Item before you pick it. It's a really good feat with the right plan, opportunity, and a lack of magic items. Note also that if you burn XP to put yourself a level behind others, you get more XP in an encounter.

You'll probably have a much better feel for the campaign by level 6,9,12. In a magic-items-are-available campaign, there is some preference for metamagic feats, but otherwise item creation feats may be more important.

[MR_Anderson]

These rules are not normally available to PCs without DM permission, but in this campaign, we should expect them to be especially unavailable because they're in the DMG, and PCs only have access to the PHB.

The entire set up of the campaign/world is uniquely designed by the DM, so he won’t know unless he asks, and it is absolutely worth asking.

So...you want to spend DM goodwill on the bag of rats trick...so that you can spend a standard action squashing a bug...and then another standard action casting a spell on its dying body...and then maybe get a short duration buff out of it, if it fails a save from your character who didn't pump Wisdom?

It could be 100 Rounds or it could be 25 Rounds. It isn’t spending DM goodwill, it is merely a tactic using a 2nd level spell that if you pick the right creature will have a 90+% success rate. It isn’t over powered.

If the DM gets upset with the tactic then the DM is going to find a reason to get upset at anything. Possibly wasting a 2nd level spell for +2 Strength is weak in most cases. Yet, wielding a 2-handed weapon, it could be worth the risk, especially if the DM lets it stack which is kind of how Death Knell has been used in my experience, but usually for the caster level effect.

How about instead of criticizing and belittling other people’s suggestions, you instead provide suggestions of your own that might be useful. That would be much more productive, and I’m sure you can provide better tactics.

[Troacctid]

It could be 100 Rounds or it could be 25 Rounds. It isn’t spending DM goodwill, it is merely a tactic using a 2nd level spell that if you pick the right creature will have a 90+% success rate. It isn’t over powered.

It's DC 13, maybe 14, which means even against a creature with -1 to save it's still only a 70% success rate. Bull's strength is guaranteed to work and doesn't require an extra action to kill something first, and it's still not even that good.

In general, it's pretty rare for self-buffs like that to be worth the action economy. If you have the choice between casting bull's strength/divine favor/whatever on yourself and then attacking on the next round, or just attacking the first round and attacking again the second round, the second one is going to be mathematically better the vast majority of the time, even without taking the resource expenditure into account. Sometimes you get a buff round where you wouldn't be able to attack, or you just have a fight that lasts for a really long time, and then it can be okay, but that's situational enough that it's not necessarily worth the opportunity cost of the prepared spell slot. In order for a self-buff to be worth it, you need to improve the action economy somehow so you're not just spinning your wheels for a turn. That's why group buffs like bless and prayer are usually so much better—because they apply to everyone, not just you, so they work immediately rather than on a one-round delay, and they act as a force multiplier. Similarly, longer-duration buffs like heroism and barkskin get around the action economy problem by lasting multiple combats.

How about instead of criticizing and belittling other people’s suggestions, you instead provide suggestions of your own that might be useful. That would be much more productive, and I’m sure you can provide better tactics.

I have been doing that. In fact, I already raised this exact action economy concern earlier in the thread.

[MR_Anderson]

It's DC 13, maybe 14, which means even against a creature with -1 to save it's still only a 70% success rate. Bull's strength is guaranteed to work and doesn't require an extra action to kill something first, and it's still not even that good.

DC = 10 + Spell Level + Ability Modifier
Thus DC of 15 as per his stated stats unbuffed, but don’t stop there.

Sacrifice a creature with a low Wisdom score like a baby fungus creature, maybe just use a tadpole, worm, slug, or something else, specifically aiming for a Wisdom of 3 or less, which means...

The creature needs to either roll a 19-20 for a 2-3, or a natural 20 if they have a 1.

This is your 90+%.

I have been doing that. In fact, I already raised this exact action economy concern earlier in the thread.

Action Economy vs Maximized Character?

If given the chance players will chose to maximize (fully buff) every time, therefore I recommend highest possible achievable points and interaction of spells and abilities and let the player decide in each situation. Clearly a player can determine if they have one round that Divine Power > Bull’s Strength > Death Knell.

[Mykerinos]

Hello again,

I have enjoyed playing my combat cleric so far. Cleave worked a couple of times :-), and the healing spells have come in handy pretty often. Also, cure Minor Wounds saved some lives by stabilising party members. I am enjoying the mix of fighter and magic user. Thanks a lot for all your help!

At the end of the last session, the group reached L3. So, I now have to decide on the L3 feat. Based on what you have written so far, I believe Craft Wondrous Item would be a good choice. If I understood right, I won't need Spellcraft etc. to use the feat, but only the ability to cast the spell + experience points + gold. I am just wondering what impact the XP loss will have for me (thanks for the hint regarding my increased XP if I end up a level lower than the rest of tu group). However, I just glanced through the Wondrous Item list, and it seems to me the really useful items start at CL 7. So does it really make sense to take the feat now already and if yes, which item would be useful for me?

Alternatively, I could go for Extend Spell. But here, a rod is probably the better option. I just have to see if I can get my hands on one in my GM's low magic setting...

Are there any other viable options? In terms of fighting feats I only have Power Attack and Cleave at the moment. Improved Initiative (which I decided against at L1) may be an option now. Having a headstart would allow me to buff (Shield of Faith, etc.) before the fighting starts.

Talking about fighting, what would be a good approach to a standard fight? Thank you for the Death Knell idea by the way. Sounds effective... I am just afraid my GM might regard it critically and disapprove of it.

I have the following spells at my disposal (L1-3):

Spoiler: Spoiler

Show

Burning Hands
Bless
Bless Water M
Detect Chaos/Evil/Good/Law
Calm Animals
Charm Animal
Detect Animals or Plants
Hide from Animals
Speak with Animals
Summon Nature’s Ally I
Divine Favor
Magic Stone
Magic Weapon
Comprehend Languages
Detect Undead
Detect Snares and Pits
Speak with Animals
Produce Flame (Level 1):
Cure Light Wounds (Level 1):
Curse Water M (Level 1):
Hide from Undead (Level 1):
Inflict Light Wounds (Level 1):
Deathwatch (Level 1):
Endure Elements (Level 1):
Entropic Shield (Level 1):
Hide from Undead (Level 1):
Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law (Level 1):
Sanctuary (Level 1):
Shield of Faith (Level 1):
Faerie Fire (Level 1):
Obscuring Mist (Level 1):
Align Weapon
Animal Messenger (Level 2):
Animal Trance (Level 2):
Hold Animal (Level 2)
Reduce Animal (Level 2):
Summon Nature’s Ally II
Bear’s Endurance
Bull’s Strength
Eagle’s Splendor
Owl’s Wisdom
Spiritual Weapon
Augury M F
Find Traps
Status
Make Whole (Level 2):
Fire Trap M (Level 2):
Flame Blade (Level 2):
Flaming Sphere (Level 2):
Heat Metal (Level 2):
Shatter (Level 2):
Soften Earth and Stone (Level 2):
Sound Burst (Level 2):
Cure Moderate Wounds (Level 2):
Delay Poison (Level 2):
Aid (Level 2):
Death Knell (Level 2):
Desecrate M (Level 2):
Gentle Repose (Level 2):
Inflict Moderate Wounds (Level 2):
Remove Paralysis (Level 2):
Resist Energy (Level 2):
Restoration, Lesser (Level 2):
Shield Other F (Level 2):
Undetectable Alignment (Level 2):
Fog Cloud (Level 2):
Gust of Wind (Level 2):

Thanks a lot for your input!

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Depending on alignment, Ancestral Relic is available at level 3, it's really powerful, and it works flavor-wise with crafting feats, since you're already crafting one item. Make it something you can apply an Extend rod to and you can get it even without the DM giving one to you.

[Anthrowhale]

How much magic item availability do you have in the game?

Low suggests that Scribe Scroll/Brew Potion/Craft Wondrous Item are good choices.

Scribe Scroll means that you always have the right spell available. This may matter less than normal in the sense that you don't have that many spells available.

Brew potion means that your party members don't need to have you available to cast your spells. This could matter quite a bit if you get knocked down.

You are right that Craft Wondrous Item and Extend Spell both do become more effective later.

[Troacctid]

I still like Craft Wondrous Item. The xp cost for crafting is very minor, and in a low-magic setting, it's going to help a lot even if all you make are ability-enhancing items and cloaks of resistance. You don't need to have the caster level that is listed for the item, only the minimum caster level to cast the spell, unless a caster level is listed as one of the prerequisites. (See cloak of resistance for an example of this if you need to convince your DM: the cloak itself has a CL of 5, but the prerequisite to craft it is CL 3, 6, 9, 12, or 15.)

Depending on alignment, Ancestral Relic is available at level 3, it's really powerful, and it works flavor-wise with crafting feats, since you're already crafting one item. Make it something you can apply an Extend rod to and you can get it even without the DM giving one to you.

I believe Book of Exalted Deeds is not available in this game—but even if it were, I think Craft Wondrous is just better, since you can craft multiple items instead of just one.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I believe Book of Exalted Deeds is not available in this game—but even if it were, I think Craft Wondrous is just better, since you can craft multiple items instead of just one.

There are benefits to Ancestral Relic that don't apply to Craft feats. For instance, it costs no XP to use, and you can convert trash directly into magic items without having to sell it at half-price first. And you can convert things that wouldn't typically be saleable. For instance, according to the pricing in the Stronghold Builder's Guide, architecture is insanely expensive. But once you clear out a cult from their Lair o' Evil^TM, you don't have proof you own it, so you can't sell it. But you can certainly sacrifice it to your Ancestral Relic item. Parts of it, at least. Like that evil altar of evil over there.

[Troacctid]

There are benefits to Ancestral Relic that don't apply to Craft feats. For instance, it costs no XP to use, and you can convert trash directly into magic items without having to sell it at half-price first. And you can convert things that wouldn't typically be saleable. For instance, according to the pricing in the Stronghold Builder's Guide, architecture is insanely expensive. But once you clear out a cult from their Lair o' Evil^TM, you don't have proof you own it, so you can't sell it. But you can certainly sacrifice it to your Ancestral Relic item. Parts of it, at least. Like that evil altar of evil over there.

You can't perform the ritual in a Lair of Evil™. It has to be done in a sacred location. Stronghold Builder's Guide isn't part of this campaign either. It's PHB only. Also, OP is evil-aligned. And even if it were available with all the advantages you describe, Craft Wondrous Item would still be miles better for a cleric.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You can't perform the ritual in a Lair of Evil™. It has to be done in a sacred location. Stronghold Builder's Guide isn't part of this campaign either. It's PHB only. Also, OP is evil-aligned. And even if it were available with all the advantages you describe, Craft Wondrous Item would still be miles better for a cleric.

Portable altars aren't difficult to find or make, you know. A small folding table with consecrate (a level 2 cleric spell) cast on it (with a few bits and bobs like candles, which are extremely common in most D&D worlds) would work just fine. And Craft Wondrous Item still requires you to manually convert trash to cash, which only nets you half the amount that Ancestral Relic would (and without XP costs on the latter).

If you convert fixtures to enhancements on Ancestral Relics, it's basically free WBL, since you can't sell them. You could also convert a bunch of stuff that's not worth carting around, like mundane equipment that's too bulky and cheap to bother with, otherwise. Piles of mundane armor and weapons, for instance, or dead creatures (since pelts, meat, bones, etc are worth money).

[Nifft]

There is also the nerfed sorcerer.
Changes to that class include:

Availability of spells (PHB only):
Always available: Divination and the 5 universal spells
Additionally available:
EITHER
2 schools out of the following: Abjuration, Illusion, Necromancy, Enchantement
OR
1 school out of the following: Conjuration, Evocation oder Transmutation

In addition, there are some minor changes (inconveniences) regarding the components needed for casting, especially those for damage spells. I will spare you the details.

However, there are also buffs to that class. The combat-related skills are replaced by those of the bard (better hit die, better Saves/BAB, better weapon/armor proficiencies, 4 skill points/level, some additional class skills).

My core interest is determining which of the available class (unmodified and modified ones) is the strongest with only PHB to draw from.

Sorcerer, all you need are Divination and Conjuration (and a Cleric friend who can cast Magic Circle and Dimensional Anchor for your [Lesser / Greater] Planar Binding)... and you don't actually need Divination, but it's nice.

Seriously, though, Conjuration has debuff and battlefield control (BFC) spells that don't get old -- even at high levels, a well-placed Grease / Glitterdust / Wall of Stone can win a battle -- and additionally Conjuration gives you Dimension Door / Teleport / Plane Shift for running away when you aren't going to win, and Phantom Steed for getting around all day when you're not fighting. It's an amazing utility school.

Plus, you can summon monsters to fight for you, but mostly summoning monsters is also best used for utility (since your summons start to come with spells or spell-like abilities above a certain level).

A Conjuror is a swiss army chainsaw which summons various different types of swiss army knives.

[Troacctid]

Portable altars aren't difficult to find or make, you know. A small folding table with consecrate (a level 2 cleric spell) cast on it (with a few bits and bobs like candles, which are extremely common in most D&D worlds) would work just fine. And Craft Wondrous Item still requires you to manually convert trash to cash, which only nets you half the amount that Ancestral Relic would (and without XP costs on the latter).

If you convert fixtures to enhancements on Ancestral Relics, it's basically free WBL, since you can't sell them. You could also convert a bunch of stuff that's not worth carting around, like mundane equipment that's too bulky and cheap to bother with, otherwise. Piles of mundane armor and weapons, for instance, or dead creatures (since pelts, meat, bones, etc are worth money).

1. You can't consecrate an area that already contains an evil altar. It blocks the spell.
2. You can't cast consecrate on a portable altar and carry it with you. It affects an area, not an object. You'd have to re-cast it every time.
3. OP actually can't cast consecrate at all.
4. If you sell a magic item worth 8,000 gp, you can use the profits to craft an item worth 8,000 gp. If you sacrifice the same item to your Ancestral Relic, you can still only craft an item worth 8,000 gp. They're the same.
   
   1. ...except that Ancestral Relic has a much stricter gp limit on what you can create, and any extra gold value sacrificed above that is wasted, where the normal crafter would have pocketed the difference for later.
   2. Also, if you sell 8,000 gp worth of gems or art objects, you can use the profits to craft 16,000 gp worth of wondrous items. With Ancestral Relic, they'd still only be worth 8,000 gp.
5. Without any way to consecrate the dungeon, you'd have to bring the architecture back to town, at which point you could presumably have sold it normally.
6. Piles of pelts, meat, and bones? Mundane weapons and armor? Seriously? Just get a mule and cart. It's less than half the cost of a single casting of consecrate, which, as previously noted, OP can't even cast in the first place.

Ancestral Relic is a great feat for characters who wouldn't normally be able to cast the spells needed to craft the item that they want. But this is a cleric we're talking about. There's no reason to take it over Craft Wondrous Item. Also, again, it's not even a legal choice for this character, or even for this campaign.

[MR_Anderson]

Hello again,

I have enjoyed playing my combat cleric so far. Cleave worked a couple of times :-), and the healing spells have come in handy pretty often. Also, cure Minor Wounds saved some lives by stabilising party members. I am enjoying the mix of fighter and magic user. Thanks a lot for all your help!

At the end of the last session, the group reached L3. So, I now have to decide on the L3 feat. Based on what you have written so far, I believe Craft Wondrous Item would be a good choice. If I understood right, I won't need Spellcraft etc. to use the feat, but only the ability to cast the spell + experience points + gold. I am just wondering what impact the XP loss will have for me (thanks for the hint regarding my increased XP if I end up a level lower than the rest of tu group). However, I just glanced through the Wondrous Item list, and it seems to me the really useful items start at CL 7. So does it really make sense to take the feat now already and if yes, which item would be useful for me?

Alternatively, I could go for Extend Spell. But here, a rod is probably the better option. I just have to see if I can get my hands on one in my GM's low magic setting...

Are there any other viable options? In terms of fighting feats I only have Power Attack and Cleave at the moment. Improved Initiative (which I decided against at L1) may be an option now. Having a headstart would allow me to buff (Shield of Faith, etc.) before the fighting starts.

Talking about fighting, what would be a good approach to a standard fight? Thank you for the Death Knell idea by the way. Sounds effective... I am just afraid my GM might regard it critically and disapprove of it.

I have the following spells at my disposal (L1-3):

Spoiler: Spoiler

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Burning Hands
Bless
Bless Water M
Detect Chaos/Evil/Good/Law
Calm Animals
Charm Animal
Detect Animals or Plants
Hide from Animals
Speak with Animals
Summon Nature’s Ally I
Divine Favor
Magic Stone
Magic Weapon
Comprehend Languages
Detect Undead
Detect Snares and Pits
Speak with Animals
Produce Flame (Level 1):
Cure Light Wounds (Level 1):
Curse Water M (Level 1):
Hide from Undead (Level 1):
Inflict Light Wounds (Level 1):
Deathwatch (Level 1):
Endure Elements (Level 1):
Entropic Shield (Level 1):
Hide from Undead (Level 1):
Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law (Level 1):
Sanctuary (Level 1):
Shield of Faith (Level 1):
Faerie Fire (Level 1):
Obscuring Mist (Level 1):
Align Weapon
Animal Messenger (Level 2):
Animal Trance (Level 2):
Hold Animal (Level 2)
Reduce Animal (Level 2):
Summon Nature’s Ally II
Bear’s Endurance
Bull’s Strength
Eagle’s Splendor
Owl’s Wisdom
Spiritual Weapon
Augury M F
Find Traps
Status
Make Whole (Level 2):
Fire Trap M (Level 2):
Flame Blade (Level 2):
Flaming Sphere (Level 2):
Heat Metal (Level 2):
Shatter (Level 2):
Soften Earth and Stone (Level 2):
Sound Burst (Level 2):
Cure Moderate Wounds (Level 2):
Delay Poison (Level 2):
Aid (Level 2):
Death Knell (Level 2):
Desecrate M (Level 2):
Gentle Repose (Level 2):
Inflict Moderate Wounds (Level 2):
Remove Paralysis (Level 2):
Resist Energy (Level 2):
Restoration, Lesser (Level 2):
Shield Other F (Level 2):
Undetectable Alignment (Level 2):
Fog Cloud (Level 2):
Gust of Wind (Level 2):

Thanks a lot for your input!

I usually make gloves of healing, for my clerics, to save on spells for other uses..

This is a custom item that just starts placing the lowest spell of healing I can cast at the time at 1 use per day and I keep adding healing spells and additional uses per day as I increase my levels, have more gold, and when there is down time for crafting.

Per day uses:
5x Cure Minor Wounds
3x Cure Light Wounds
1x Cure Moderate Wounds
1x Cure Serious Wounds
1x Cure Critical Wounds

One use per day instead of Five is 1/5 the cost, it does take talking to the DM, but these are very useful and pretty clear cut on crafting.

Note: Often I would make the caster level the minimum level to cast the spell as it saves on the cost of crafting for very little gain.

You could also create a belt that casts Bear’s Endurance and Bull’s Strength X times per day, or a circlet that casts Eagle’s Splendor and Owl’s Wisdom X times a day. These don’t require you to have higher level as you are just crafting a basic item to cast the spell not be a belt of strength or headband of intellect which needs higher caster levels. These also save spell slots.

As for earning XP and catching up, make sure that your DM will give you XP as per what your level is and not just an XP amount to everyone in the party regardless of level.

Extend spell is nice, but with your spells, you might want to take it at 6th or 9th.

Brew potion and Scribe Scroll are a little lacking in PHB only when compared to Wondrous Item. You can basically create something that casts the spells you want anytime every day without needing another crafting. Gloves of every spell or magic shirts, maybe a tunic, cape, or whatever.

Craft wondrous item is the best, craft arms and armor are next depending on if you get crafting time and gold.

[bean illus]

I usually make gloves of healing, for my clerics, to save on spells for other uses..

Spoiler

Show

This is a custom item that just starts placing the lowest spell of healing I can cast at the time at 1 use per day and I keep adding healing spells and additional uses per day as I increase my levels, have more gold, and when there is down time for crafting.

Per day uses:
5x Cure Minor Wounds
3x Cure Light Wounds
1x Cure Moderate Wounds
1x Cure Serious Wounds
1x Cure Critical Wounds

One use per day instead of Five is 1/5 the cost, it does take talking to the DM, but these are very useful and pretty clear cut on crafting.

Note: Often I would make the caster level the minimum level to cast the spell as it saves on the cost of crafting for very little gain.

You could also create a belt that casts Bear’s Endurance and Bull’s Strength X times per day, or a circlet that casts Eagle’s Splendor and Owl’s Wisdom X times a day. These don’t require you to have higher level as you are just crafting a basic item to cast the spell not be a belt of strength or headband of intellect which needs higher caster levels. These also save spell slots.

As for earning XP and catching up, make sure that your DM will give you XP as per what your level is and not just an XP amount to everyone in the party regardless of level.

Extend spell is nice, but with your spells, you might want to take it at 6th or 9th.

Brew potion and Scribe Scroll are a little lacking in PHB only when compared to Wondrous Item. You can basically create something that casts the spells you want anytime every day without needing another crafting. Gloves of every spell or magic shirts, maybe a tunic, cape, or whatever.

Craft wondrous item is the best, craft arms and armor are next depending on if you get crafting time and gold.

That's all good advice. Either way, i would check with the DM before i set my expectations. The DM could limit downtime, or otherwise stifle expected result, as a way to achieve their setting.

[MR_Anderson]

That's all good advice. Either way, i would check with the DM before i set my expectations. The DM could limit downtime, or otherwise stifle expected result, as a way to achieve their setting.

You’re absolutely right. I came up with the idea for the healing gloves because our DM gave us very limited down time, so sometimes I only had the ability to add just a single spell when we came into a town.

I also made gauntlets of true strike 3x per day for the melee characters.

The other item I would craft is something like an amulet, tunic, cloak, robe, or crown that provides Continuous Protection from Evil, it only costs 2,000 gp to craft (4,000 gp value), it protects vs the mind control stuff, you could also add Chaos and Law to it as well, but I usually skip Protection from Good.

A pair of Glasses with all the detect spells you have that are 0-Level or 1st Level are also useful.