How Would You Do the Fantastic Four?

[Kareeah_Indaga]

The details wouldn't need to matter, it'd just be an easter egg joke for people who get the reference.

The problem with making it just an Easter Egg is that a largish chunk of the people watching are going to take it as an indication that at the very least, Luke would be getting his show back. Which would be fine if they also do that, but is just kind of cruel to his fans if he never shows up again.

[The Glyphstone]

The problem with making it just an Easter Egg is that a largish chunk of the people watching are going to take it as an indication that at the very least, Luke would be getting his show back. Which would be fine if they also do that, but is just kind of cruel to his fans if he never shows up again.

Fair point. I never watched the Netflix shows myself.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Better to make Latveria a former piece of Sokovia. Symkaria too, if you want to lay some groundwork for Silver Sable and the Wild Pack.

[The Glyphstone]

That works too, just have Sokovia fall apart entirely into a bunch of feuding microstates.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Given the references to the Sokovian Civil War I'm pretty sure they were already using Yugoslavia coming apart as a road map.

[Scarlet Knight]

Ooooh! Make Dr. Doom the villain but have him make Doom-bots that look like heroes! Classic Marvel plot!

You can have any of the Avengers run rampant & have the Fantastic Four bring them in... which of course leads to them fighting the real Thor, Daredevil, Spiderman, etc , in error!

I loved that issue!

[Clertar]

The FF should be introduced as a mildly veteran team of superheroes, so no origin story. They are competent, know what they're doing, and have their dynamics already established. The film focuses on some big event that forces them out of the secrecy in which they have been operating (to the outside world they're Reed Richard's scientific team, and their adventures have so far been off-world or -dimension, or kept a secret from the Avengers), so that the audience learns about them just as the world and the other MCU heroes do during the course of the film.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

The FF should be introduced as a mildly veteran team of superheroes, so no origin story. They are competent, know what they're doing, and have their dynamics already established. The film focuses on some big event that forces them out of the secrecy in which they have been operating (to the outside world they're Reed Richard's scientific team, and their adventures have so far been off-world or -dimension, or kept a secret from the Avengers), so that the audience learns about them just as the world and the other MCU heroes do during the course of the film.

That sounds a LOT like the basic premise for Eternals but with the teams switched.

My big question here (and any other ‘Fantastic Four already exist’ scenarios while we’re at it) is why would they be secret, what is the explanation for why they’ve never helped out with any of the previous threats? We’ve already done the ‘hasn’t interacted with the other supers because they don’t like/trust them’ angle with Dr. Pym. Sokovia Accords have only been in effect for a few years. It’s kind of hard to get recognition for your scientific discoveries in other dimensions if no one knows about them...

[The Glyphstone]

Here's a random idea. Let's say, hypothetically, Marvel/Disney manages to buy back the rights to have mutants in the MCU from Fox. What if mutants are an emergent side effect of the Snap? Rocket mentions Earth being 'ground zero for a cosmic power surge of massive proportions' - this surge could have left aftereffects on the people who weren't Snapped. Thus we get X men, but we could also get Fantastic Four.

[Ajustusdaniel]

Here's a random idea. Let's say, hypothetically, Marvel/Disney manages to buy back the rights to have mutants in the MCU from Fox. What if mutants are an emergent side effect of the Snap? Rocket mentions Earth being 'ground zero for a cosmic power surge of massive proportions' - this surge could have left aftereffects on the people who weren't Snapped. Thus we get X men, but we could also get Fantastic Four.

Not such a hypothetical given that Disney already bought 21st Century Fox itself.

That said, ideally, if you're going to the X-men as part of a larger comic book universe (which I'm not entirely convinced is to their benefit) I think you really need some way to distinguish between them and other superhumans, so you could just about get away with "latent genetics (somethingsomething Celestials) activated by exotic energy exposure," but I'd shy away with giving them a shared origin with the Fantastic Four.

[Clertar]

My big question here (and any other ‘Fantastic Four already exist’ scenarios while we’re at it) is why would they be secret, what is the explanation for why they’ve never helped out with any of the previous threats? We’ve already done the ‘hasn’t interacted with the other supers because they don’t like/trust them’ angle with Dr. Pym. Sokovia Accords have only been in effect for a few years. It’s kind of hard to get recognition for your scientific discoveries in other dimensions if no one knows about them...

You can do this: the MCU Fantastic Four don't see themselves as superhero vigilantes, they see themselves as a team of scientists that had an accident and got strange habilities as a result. Their research and projects are vastly more important than stopping criminals as a superhero team, so they just don't bother; not because they're sitting around, but becasue they're working their ass off doing dealing with urgent big issues that only they are equipped to deal with.
(Why didn't Luke Skywalker travel from world to world in the OT saving the little guy being abused by the Empire? Because he had his hand(s) full dealing with bigger issues.)

That's not such a stretch. The same issue turns up with any superhero in the MCU (e.g., why didn't anyone show up in Venice or London to help Spider-man in Far from home?). My preferred approach by far is a mild dismissal of the issue, asking the audience to just buy into one more superhero trope, rather than the alternative of a blown-up lampshading built into the plot, which basically always pulls me out even more because I realize what they're doing.

[Hopeless]

How about they were victims of the Snap except not from the MCU, the group is from another Earth the result of hijinx insuing from the Avengers borrowing infinity stones from another reality much like the situation with the Loki series?

So they're originally from the Earth of the 60's and their ship accident was due to them investigating a ripple in space time caused by the Avengers travelling through the Quantum Realm and they end up crashing in the Avengers Universe with no idea what caused their situation and empowerment?

Ross tries to take advantage despite resistance from SHIELD & SWORD leading to Mr Fantastic selling patents to his inventions allowing them to free themselves to focus on their own lives occasionally called in to help given their own unique experiences.

Would that work?

[Ajustusdaniel]

One thing about the "Fantastic Four are from another world/time," thing. I can buy that for most of them, but Ben Grimm is one of the Marvel characters that is most strongly from a particular place. Now, I don't really follow modern day New York demographics closely, so I'm not sure to what degree "Working class Jewish communities in Manhattan's Lower East Side," is still a viable place to be from, but I do think a certain something would be lost by having Ben Grimm be trapped in a world he never made instead of being a hero who engages in cosmic exploration but still has strong neighborhood roots.

[Rogar Demonblud]

The problem is those neighborhoods don't exist any more, having been replaced by other neighborhoods generally defined on racial grounds. Ben is very much a product of a specific time and place, just like Sue trying to be the new more Liberated Woman while still being in effect the Team Mom and Designated Love Interest. The F4 are really hard to divorce from the late 50s early 60s milieu and keep the flavor.

[Ajustusdaniel]

The problem is those neighborhoods don't exist any more, having been replaced by other neighborhoods generally defined on racial grounds. Ben is very much a product of a specific time and place, just like Sue trying to be the new more Liberated Woman while still being in effect the Team Mom and Designated Love Interest. The F4 are really hard to divorce from the late 50s early 60s milieu and keep the flavor.

I get that. My sibling, who lived in NYC for a while, commented that while walking through the Hell's Kitchen area, where Daredevil does most of his crime fighting, the scariest thing that confronted her was a hipster trying to entice her to buy overpriced beer. The recent show kind of got around that by having the area having been devastated by the invasion in The Avengers and struggling to get back on its feet after that, and making the core villains interested in trying to exploit the inevitable regentrification.

I'm not sure what the answer is for Ben.

[Hopeless]

Maybe rebuilding his life leads to the Thing investigating his home district in this universe leading to him meeting locals including Luke Cage, Spiderman and others where his interactions with them and the versions of the people who live there in the FF comics being derived from the MCU?

Those areas may be gone, but not forgotten is more the point that might need to play a more important role in at least the Thing's new life?

[Ajustusdaniel]

There's a related point here- the Fant4stic Film, and the Ultimate Fantastic Four comics, which it to some degree drew from, enyoungened the characters. In the original comics, Reed was already a Distinguished Scientist type and a World War Two veteran by the time of the fateful flight (although it would later be established that his grey streak was not because of his age, but because of trauma endured while helping Allied soldiers escape Nazi imprisonment), and Ben Grimm, having been his roommate in college, was presumably within a few years of him. Johnny was a hotshot kid who drove but was just starting to be interested in women, and Sue was somewhere between slightly to uncomfortably younger than Reed and Ben.

Where would you put them on an age scale, folks?

[Clertar]

There's a related point here- the Fant4stic Film, and the Ultimate Fantastic Four comics, which it to some degree drew from, enyoungened the characters. In the original comics, Reed was already a Distinguished Scientist type and a World War Two veteran by the time of the fateful flight (although it would later be established that his grey streak was not because of his age, but because of trauma endured while helping Allied soldiers escape Nazi imprisonment), and Ben Grimm, having been his roommate in college, was presumably within a few years of him. Johnny was a hotshot kid who drove but was just starting to be interested in women, and Sue was somewhere between slightly to uncomfortably younger than Reed and Ben.

Where would you put them on an age scale, folks?

Adult and mature for Reed and Ben, and maybe younger Sue. If Jonathan Storm is going to start out a little hot-headed and immature, he should be mid-20s to be believable in a not pathetic way. Let's say Sue is 5 years older, and Reed 10 years older than her (also giving us the canonical age old enough for him to get gray temples), that gives us for example Jonathan being 25, Sue being 30-35 (she could also be closer to 40, and have a very young brother), and Reed and Ben being 40. I think that could work in-universe and also feel comics-accurate.

I would not make them a young superhero team. The MCU is already developing a Young Avengers or similar team, led by a young female Hawkeye. That, plus Peter Parker, plus an eventual Miles Morales, would make it way too many teenagers and way too many "growing into their identity" stories.

[Rogar Demonblud]

There's a related point here- the Fant4stic Film, and the Ultimate Fantastic Four comics, which it to some degree drew from, enyoungened the characters. In the original comics, Reed was already a Distinguished Scientist type and a World War Two veteran by the time of the fateful flight (although it would later be established that his grey streak was not because of his age, but because of trauma endured while helping Allied soldiers escape Nazi imprisonment), and Ben Grimm, having been his roommate in college, was presumably within a few years of him. Johnny was a hotshot kid who drove but was just starting to be interested in women, and Sue was somewhere between slightly to uncomfortably younger than Reed and Ben.

Where would you put them on an age scale, folks?

Actually, back when the comic debuted a decade between husband and wife wasn't uncommon. It took time to get established in your career to the point you could support a family. And depending on which canon you accept, Sue is the second Mrs Richards, which adds a whole new field of age and gender dynamics.

[Scarlet Knight]

The problem is those neighborhoods don't exist any more, having been replaced by other neighborhoods generally defined on racial grounds. Ben is very much a product of a specific time and place, just like Sue trying to be the new more Liberated Woman while still being in effect the Team Mom and Designated Love Interest. The F4 are really hard to divorce from the late 50s early 60s milieu and keep the flavor.

OK, this has to potential to be a horrible idea or maybe a cult classic: what if we don't pitch this movie to people who love Marvel Movies? Marvel has tons of those coming.

What if we make it a 60's period piece and pitch it to people who love "Mad Men"? Make it character driven and not a spoof.

@v : Ooops. must have missed that.

[Rogar Demonblud]

There's more than a bit of overlap between those two sets. And I think there's at least a couple people besides me who proposed doing that in the thread.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Adult and mature for Reed and Ben, and maybe younger Sue. If Jonathan Storm is going to start out a little hot-headed and immature, he should be mid-20s to be believable in a not pathetic way. Let's say Sue is 5 years older, and Reed 10 years older than her (also giving us the canonical age old enough for him to get gray temples), that gives us for example Jonathan being 25, Sue being 30-35 (she could also be closer to 40, and have a very young brother), and Reed and Ben being 40. I think that could work in-universe and also feel comics-accurate.

Big age gap would be easy to do; the younger parties just got Snapped while the older ones survived and aged the five years in between.

[Rakaydos]

Big age gap would be easy to do; the younger parties just got Snapped while the older ones survived and aged the five years in between.

Ooh, what if it's the other way around? they started with the cannonical age differences and all the creepyness that implies, but the younger ones aged up and got mature, and the older ones expect the world to be exactly the way they left it? Causing tension when, say, the invisible woman isnt quite so content to stay in Reed's shadow, anymore?

[Clertar]

I think it's funny how we feel that Disney should avoid a 5-10 year gap between spouses for a series of reasons. I think that they would avoid it, mind you. But then some of the actors and people depicting these characters do have that in their own private life (e.g. Robert Downey Jr is married to a woman 8 years younger).
Chris Hemsworth is a nice exception, with an older wife :)

[Ajustusdaniel]

For the record, the 'uncomfortably younger,' line wasn't so much in reference to the age difference between adult Reed and Sue, but one flashback story that had around twelve year old Sue decide she was going to marry college age twenty-something Reed.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Not unusual at all for her to say that. My youngest sister was determined to marry Troy Aikman for about four years. To follow through, however...

[Ajustusdaniel]

Not unusual at all for her to say that. My youngest sister was determined to marry Troy Aikman for about four years. To follow through, however...

Yeah. There's nothing wrong per se. There was no inappropriate behavior from Reed, and my recollection is that they didn't meet again til years later, but it was... kind of uncomfortable.

[Clertar]

For the record, the 'uncomfortably younger,' line wasn't so much in reference to the age difference between adult Reed and Sue, but one flashback story that had around twelve year old Sue decide she was going to marry college age twenty-something Reed.

Oh man. *Groan*

[Ajustusdaniel]

Oh man. *Groan*

Right. So in terms of making your movie, I would say maybe don't do that.

Incidentally, I've been rereading old Fantastic Four comics, and while they've fought a collection of mad scientists (incidentally, Red Ghost and his Super Apes do canonically share the source of their powers with the FF, so if you want a rival scientist with a shared origin, there you go, filmmakers), some Skrull, a couple of M-Men (Miracle Man and Molecule Man), a persistent and horny fishman, and the Puppet Master, Cosmic Threats From Beyond The Stars are pretty thin on the ground so far, being limited to (arguably) Molecule Man (originated on Earth, but the Watcher did pop up to warn the FF about him), and a couple of immature green and purple alien types.

Obviously the major exception to this will come when I get to issue 48.

[Psyren]

MovieBob did a whole 3-part pitch for this that I really loved. So I'm just going to point at it and say "pretty much that, that's what I'd do."

To summarize it:

Spoiler

Show

It's an origin story for the Four, but no Doctor Doom (yet). They are actually from the 1960s as per the original (catapulted to the present day by the same space accident that gave them their powers), so you get some of the displaced humor like with Cap, but with a more morally-grey Cold War-era tinge to distinguish from his morally optimistic viewpoint. They have to adjust to this new world, but with the exception of Reed Richards (the patriarch of the family), the others are picking up on it quickly as the world is full of possibilities for them. Johnny gets to enjoy his newfound celebrity due to social media, Sue gets to step into the limelight more as a respected scientist in her own right, and Ben comes to terms with his appearance not defining him and having more to offer the world than being a hyper-masculine tough guy due to there being other heroes running around. Reed meanwhile is quite ironically the least flexible member of the team (at least at first) and so he's focused on trying to fix things - get his family back home to a world that makes more sense, as well as treat and eventually cure their "afflictions."

It's a great pitch and everything, from the villain (not Doom!) to the fights to their place in the MCU as being the new super-science go-to gurus like Tony was, is structured around this core.

If you want to watch it yourself though, here's part 1: