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Thread: WandaVision
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2021-03-01, 01:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: WandaVision
Wait, we're surprised that the guy who counts his kills by scarring himself for each one might not care about saving a life?
My impression was that you appear to dislike this "new direction" that they're taking MCU magic in. My response is that it was never new, or at the very least, that the true difference between what we knew and what we're being shown in WV is so small as to be meaningless.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2021-03-01, 02:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2006
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Re: WandaVision
Yep we are supposed to "empathize" with Killmonger, but not sympathize with him.
We are supposed to see he has valid points, but if he was given control his "grudge" will burn down the world much like ritual scar man burn down the magic flower.
Likewise we are supposed to distrust him based off how he treats women, both his girlfriend which he does not mourn, but also how he is just generally disrespectful always.
To "listen" but not to "trust," for Killmonger is no friend.Stupendous Man drawn by Linklele
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2021-03-01, 03:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Gobbotopia
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Re: WandaVision
Just cut Killmonger from the movie, and paste-in Black Manta from Aquaman. Keep Manta's general origin story the same but tweaked slightly (Atlantian tech is probably his own tech but with Vibranium involved or something idk, Maybe some remnants of Ultron and Chitauri tech for a nod to that story from Homecoming) and you'd have a much more interesting story and final fight.
I will die on this hill.Last edited by Draconi Redfir; 2021-03-01 at 03:11 PM.
Avy by Thormag
Spoiler
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2021-03-01, 04:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2014
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2021-03-01, 04:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2006
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2021-03-01, 04:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Gobbotopia
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2021-03-01, 05:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
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- Kansas City
Re: WandaVision
There you go. Problem solved.
The next Black Panther can be Black Manta.
He can be revealed as a long lost fourth cousin twice removed of the Wakanda royal court, thus making him the next living male heir to the throne. Come in, destroy M'Baku in waterfall combat, ascend to the throne, then use Wakandan resources to go to war with Atlantis.
Hey BP and Namor have been beating the **** out of each other for the last few years in the comic book, why not BP and Aquaman in the movies.
I mean, I'm dying to see him use his Black Manta eye cannon to slice up some War Rhinos.
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2021-03-01, 05:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
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- Kansas City
Re: WandaVision
There's a lot of sketchy concerns to this series of events.
Vision is destroyed in Wakanda, then the snap happens. Why would the Wakandans hand his body over to the Americans anyway? He was made out of stolen vibranium. You'd expect them to throw him in a vault.
So we have to assume that Cap and gang must've picked up the remains and loaded him onto a quinjet and taken him back to Avengers HQ. So did Bruce Banner even bother trying to fix him? Or did he just get shoved into a closet until Sword came in and cleared him out? I mean even with Shuri snapped, you'd think that Cap and Natasha (who were persona non grata to the U.S. Military at the time) would've said "the Wakandans have the best possibility of fixing him, so let's leave him there." I guess I could see Rhodey being the one who said "Nope, he's a military asset and he's going back to the U.S. Military"
These are questions I don't expect to ever be answered but that geeks want to know.
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2021-03-01, 05:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Gobbotopia
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Re: WandaVision
i was more thinking Manta as a VILLAIN for Panther. But sure, i'll pay to see that too :P
Avy by Thormag
Spoiler
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2021-03-01, 05:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: WandaVision
"Cannons?" What cannons? It's a discussion forum, debate and disagreement are to be expected. I don't feel any lines have been crossed.
I suspect they're leaving all the "immediate aftermath of the Snap" details intentionally vague so that other writers can fill in that gap in other media.
With that said, "how did SWORD end up with his body" could matter a little insofar as it ties into Hayward's own motives for doing so.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2021-03-01, 06:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
Re: WandaVision
Originally Posted by Gallowglass
Vision is destroyed in Wakanda, then the snap happens. Why would the Wakandans hand his body over to the Americans anyway? He was made out of stolen vibranium. You'd expect them to throw him in a vault.
Originally Posted by Gallowglass
So did Bruce Banner even bother trying to fix him?
But chain-of-custody questions are certainly worth asking. I’d be very surprised if Vision’s body hadn’t been interred soon after the Snap, probably at the Avengers compound. It’s hard to imagine Rhodey claiming Vision as military property. Remember that not long before the Snap, Rhodey disobeyed a direct order from the Secretary of State, and he knew that his service career was over. At best he was pending a court-martial, so he wouldn’t have been tasked with something as sensitive as transferring Vision’s remains out of Avengers custody.
So, did Hayward or someone else disinter Vision’s remains? And if so, when? These are pertinent questions, and I hope we'll get some answers at the end of the week.
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2021-03-01, 07:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Gobbotopia
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Re: WandaVision
i'd assume the Avengers as a company just kind of claimed Vision's body. Vision's entire life had been as an Avenger, it only makes sense that he'd go to the Avenger operation. From there, he'd be passed down to the S.W.O.R.D. division for research.
Avy by Thormag
Spoiler
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2021-03-01, 07:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2014
Re: WandaVision
Others have already answered the first bit, but regarding this: per early episodes of WandaVision, Vision's will stated that he not be brought back to life if killed. I would think his friends and close allies would respect that even though Hayward obviously didn't, so leaving his corpse with whoever would be the best option to fix him is moot.
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2021-03-01, 08:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
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- Kansas City
Re: WandaVision
I've watched all the episodes and I don't remember anything about a "will"
What episode and when was this?
And, if its true, then it makes it even more absurd that his corpus ever ended up in the hands of the U.S. Military. Not even Rhodey would've handed it over at that point. It would've been entombed in Wakanda, the safest place for it.Last edited by Gallowglass; 2021-03-01 at 08:13 PM.
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2021-03-01, 08:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
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- Kansas City
Re: WandaVision
yeah, except, a bunch of Sword techies managed to put humpty dumpty back together again. Seems like Bruce, Tony, and the Wakandan tech's could've managed if they bothered to try. I mean, right in the movie they talk about the possibility of his essense surviving without the stone.
As for the Wakandans being preoccupied, all of the lore so far makes them violently and religiously zealous about preventing the loss of any amount of vibranium. I don't see preoccupation limiting that, rather I'd see it enhancing it.Last edited by Gallowglass; 2021-03-01 at 08:19 PM.
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2021-03-01, 08:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2006
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- Washington, USA
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Re: WandaVision
Episode 5, "On a Very Special Episode" some dialogue between Hayward and Woo.
HAYWARD: Nine days ago. Maximoff stormed our facility, stole the Vision’s body, and resurrected him.
WOO: But that’s in direct violation of Section 36 B of the Sokovia Accords.
HAYWARD: And the Vision’s own living will.
WOO: He didn’t want to be anybody’s weapon.
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2021-03-01, 09:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2006
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Re: WandaVision
Sword may have gotten more done if they gave the heroes who failed some therapy.
Stupendous Man drawn by Linklele
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2021-03-02, 01:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: WandaVision
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2021-03-02, 01:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2006
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Re: WandaVision
True, but the shared nature of the trauma also changes how it is processed by society. It is literally a universal experience. How people feel about it may be different, but it affects how people process trauma when it is individualized vs a group together experiences it.
Stupendous Man drawn by Linklele
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2021-03-02, 04:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2020
Re: WandaVision
Depends on the setting. In W40k magic and psionics are one and the same
About the Asgardians the MCU seems to contniously change it's mind, almost as if they just ebb and flow with what they perceive as the dominant public oppinion.
At first they played it safe to test out the waters and not offend any religious people. Keeping it all ambiguous aka "magic, science to us just one and the same"
Then they must have gotten the impression that having deities in the MCU would offended after all and movie 2 went all "WE ARE NO GODS!"
But then they must have thought that this was worse for their target audience then risking the Ire of some religious groups and movie 3 was all "i am god of", "shes goddess of", "what were you the god of again?" etc.Last edited by M1982; 2021-03-02 at 04:56 AM.
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2021-03-02, 06:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2020
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2021-03-02, 07:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
Re: WandaVision
Originally Posted by Gallowglass
Seems like Bruce, Tony, and the Wakandan tech's could've managed if they bothered to try. I mean, right in the movie they talk about the possibility of his essense surviving without the stone.
Also, as Kareeah rightly points out, Vision did have a will stipulating he not be brought back—this was indeed mentioned in an earlier episode.
Originally Posted by Gallowglass
As for the Wakandans being preoccupied, all of the lore so far makes them violently and religiously zealous about preventing the loss of any amount of vibranium. I don't see preoccupation limiting that, rather I'd see it enhancing it.
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2021-03-02, 10:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
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- Kansas City
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2021-03-02, 10:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2013
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Re: WandaVision
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2021-03-02, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
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- Maryland
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Re: WandaVision
Normally, I'd agree, but their king did get dusted, and it seems they had some pretty heavy casualties...after all, their troops were fighting pre snap, so they lost at least some, and then half got dusted. IIRC, a *lot* of the important folks to Wakanda got dusted, so their leadership was probably in shambles.
I can see that being so devastating that things they'd normally care about just get ignored in the resulting chaos.
[quoite]So we have to assume that Cap and gang must've picked up the remains and loaded him onto a quinjet and taken him back to Avengers HQ. So did Bruce Banner even bother trying to fix him? Or did he just get shoved into a closet until Sword came in and cleared him out? [/QUOTE]
This is sort of an issue with the time jump. It brings up a lot of questions about what happened in the meantime. I get why they did it, but it's certainly a messy plot point that's not been filled in a lot.
Kind of too bad. Seeing helicopters crash and planes going down at the end of IW, that seemed like kind of an awesome setting to stage things in. Jumping away from that feels like we kinda lost something that could have been awesome.
I believe Hayward says it in the first episode we meet him in? In any case, Hayward's statement may be, well, unreliable. After all, it is literally in the same bit where he's trying to make Wanda appear to have gone totally rogue.
The dude is a bit short in the credibility department.
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2021-03-02, 10:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: WandaVision
I don't see how that makes the prospect of obtaining therapy any easier though. It might be universal, but it's also completely unprecedented, impacted every support network around the world simultaneously etc.
I've seen no indication that the MCU was worried about any such things. "We are no gods" refers to Asgardians' fallibility, not audience concerns. Link to an interview?
Did the vibranium for cap's shield come from Wakanda? Honest question, I genuinely don't know. The army made it from the only supply they had available, but I don't recall if they ever said what that supply was.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2021-03-02, 12:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
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Re: WandaVision
Black Panther established that some Vibranium had made it out of Wakanda. There were those Vibranium axes in the British museum. The US government could have gotten it's hands on some and just thought "Huh, look at this super rare metal! We have no idea where they actually pull this stuff out of the ground from".
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2021-03-02, 12:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
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Re: WandaVision
Howard Stark made it, but we don't have a clear source for where it came from. Wakanda seems likely, because the material is called out as very rare, and that's the obvious source, but we don't know for sure how it was acquired.
It's also unclear how a vibranium axe ended up in a museum. Wakanda hasn't actually been colonized and is deeply isolationist, so...maybe Klau stole that too? Seems like a stretch since he very clearly only did a single job there, but it's the best lead available. It seems even less likely that Klau provided Howard Stark with the material because of the timeline.
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2021-03-02, 01:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
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Re: WandaVision
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2021-03-02, 01:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
Re: WandaVision
Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
Howard Stark made it, but we don't have a clear source for where it came from.
Stark: “If this guy got out of Wakanda with some of their trade goods….”
Cap: “I thought your father said he got the last of it.”
Banner: “I don’t follow. What comes out of Wakanda?”
Stark: “The strongest metal on Earth.”
—And we end the scene with a closeup of Cap’s shield. The strong implication is that the vibranium which formed the shield came from Wakanda, and at the time it was assumed that was all there was.
Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
It's also unclear how a vibranium axe ended up in a museum.Originally Posted by BRC
Killmonger said that British Soldiers took the axes from Benin, so it sounds like some Vibranium made it's way out of Wakanda to Benin a long time ago, where the axes were looted by the British and taken to the museum.