WandaVision

[Kornaki]

They still had to explain why both new realvision exists and also why wanda-fake-vision exists so I don't think they really solved that problem.

[Psyren]

I do agree that largely the Accords don't seem to have a lot of teeth, at least post-civil war. We don't see a whole lot of effect from having them. For all the talk of say, having to get authorization before going into a country to do heroism, nobody actually does that in movies after that.

I also find the suit destroying at the end of Iron Man 3 to end up being kind of wildly out of place. There's no character development there that doesn't have to be walked back for all the sequels.

Agreed, hence the Phase 2 reordering I pointed to earlier and why I like it so much.

In addition, Nando also had a rewrite for Ultron himself that I thought would fit perfectly with that - shackling his AI so he couldn't kill. This small change makes Tony less of an idiot going into AOU, and also raises the stakes for Ultron himself - he needs his vibranium body, his Vision, not merely because he wants the ultimate form, but because it can house the Mind Stone needed to overcome his shackles. Ultron wants the Avengers dead, but being unable to kill means he has to rely on other villains to do it - Scarlet Witch & Quicksilver primarily, but he could also track down Abomination, Crossbones and Klaue to form his own team (nod to the Masters of Evil from the comics, which Ultron has even led in the past.)

At AOU's climax, Ultron succeeds in getting his ultimate body, and we get a much better idea of what Vision can do - having him (with Ultron in the driver's seat) take on the remainder of both teams. This would be much more memorable than the CGI mindless drone fight we got in AOU that was identical to the one at the end of Avengers 1 with the Chitauri.

Yeah, but for Wandavision we already have quite a few powersets.

Even if we disregard duplicates, we have Wanda, Vision, and at least three other powered individuals who are fairly unique in terms of capability and origins.

Given the existing opposition between a lot of them, it certainly doesn't have to boil down to mirror matches.

Yes, it came down to evil-opposite-fights (Vision vs. Cataract, Wanda vs. Agatha) but the execution still elevated them. Wanda used what she learned about magic, while Vision had a philosophy debate in a library. I don't see the issue.

[Kornaki]

Yes, it came down to evil-opposite-fights (Vision vs. Cataract, Wanda vs. Agatha) but the execution still elevated them. Wanda used what she learned about magic, while Vision had a philosophy debate in a library. I don't see the issue.

It felt a little cheap, since Wanda didn't really learn anything about magic at that point. It's a miracle she knew how to draw the runes.

It also seemed like an odd choice for her to keep fighting Agatha when Agatha is the only thing in the universe she isn't able to blast into smithereens.

[Tyndmyr]

The Age of Ultron rewrite idea sounds fun. It could also be used to explain why Ultron takes prisoners. After all, if he can't kill, taking someone prisoner is an obvious option.

As for the evil opposites its, well, boring. Throwing color coded bolts of power back and forth is kinda samey. It relies on oddball gotchas to have the back and forth, rather than it feeling organic. Why does vision take this punch and phase through that one? And for the bolt exchange, at least having one clearly advantaged, and the other using terrain would be more interesting than what we got.

And why pit the kids against the cops? That one felt awkward. On the one hand we have these folks that see kids and are just "hey, lets execute them with bullets" which is a really hard sell for any team you want to be redeemable at all. And Wanda tossing her kids against folks with guns(and also later mostly ignoring them) feels like it's really...cold. It contributes a lot to the dissonance of treating Wanda like she's been somehow redeemed.

[Psyren]

It felt a little cheap, since Wanda didn't really learn anything about magic at that point. It's a miracle she knew how to draw the runes.

Is it? Yeah she only saw them once, but (a) it's not like they're particularly complicated shapes (one is even basically the Scarlet Witch headdress from her Halloween outfit, which suggests that she knew some of that info subconsciously anyway), and (b) the fact that she saw herself - her future self? An alternate reality version? - inside the Mind Stone suggests that she may have been getting some extra help (from herself) anyway.

Not to mention, she's the Scarlet Witch! Having a bit more talent for/intutive grasp of magic, even the theory aspect, than most witches is to be expected. Agatha flat out says she's above the Sorcerer Supreme, and we didn't have any problem with him immediately grasping various arcane concepts once initially presented to him. Why is it a problem for her?

It also seemed like an odd choice for her to keep fighting Agatha when Agatha is the only thing in the universe she isn't able to blast into smithereens.

Her trip into Agatha's memories showed her Agatha's magic-drain power, and allowed her to formulate the plan to make Agatha overconfident with a laser fight before turning the tables. The setup for this was more than adequate.

As for the evil opposites its, well, boring.
...
And why pit the kids against the cops? That one felt awkward. On the one hand we have these folks that see kids and are just "hey, lets execute them with bullets" which is a really hard sell for any team you want to be redeemable at all.

Well I certainly can't tell you what you do and don't find boring, so I'll leave the first part alone. All I can say is I didn't, and judging from the response to the finale neither did most people, so Marvel did what they set out to do.

For your second bit - pretty sure Hayward was the only one who actually fired at the kids, and I don't think he is intended to be redeemable.

[Mordar]

And why pit the kids against the cops? That one felt awkward. On the one hand we have these folks that see kids and are just "hey, lets execute them with bullets" which is a really hard sell for any team you want to be redeemable at all. And Wanda tossing her kids against folks with guns(and also later mostly ignoring them) feels like it's really...cold. It contributes a lot to the dissonance of treating Wanda like she's been somehow redeemed.

I mostly want to avoid this discussion, as the whole sequence was artificially created to solidify certain secondary elements...but Wanda and Vision clearly judged the mooks with guns a trivial threat. The whole "you were born to do this" bit (don't remember it exactly) to me was Wanda understanding that the SWORD mooks were no threat. Standing there for Hayward's handgun rounds was just a manufactured opportunity for us to get to see some of Monica's power, and then Darcy to get another "isn't she just the best" smartalec line.

- M

[Psyren]

As WandaVision isn't just a show, but a show within a show, I question which aspects of it AREN'T "artificially created."

[Mordar]

As WandaVision isn't just a show, but a show within a show, I question which aspects of it AREN'T "artificially created."

Fair. I will therefore swap from "artificially created" to "exceptionally contrived, poorly conceived and hamfisted".

- M

[Tyndmyr]

Well I certainly can't tell you what you do and don't find boring, so I'll leave the first part alone. All I can say is I didn't, and judging from the response to the finale neither did most people, so Marvel did what they set out to do.

For your second bit - pretty sure Hayward was the only one who actually fired at the kids, and I don't think he is intended to be redeemable.

There is perhaps a difference between disliking the whole thing, and considering one thing unimpressive.

The show overall was decent, including the finale. Heck, many MCU movies have been good despite a mediocre mirror match fight scene. Consider Black Panther. Lots of people loved that movie. I don't think they loved it for the slugfest on the train tracks, though. That was just filling time.

[hungrycrow]

Personally I think as far as Marvel fights go the mirror matches here were pretty good. Vision gets to confront who he is and whether he's real. Wanda an Agatha are essentially debating over whether Wanda is capable of controlling her own powers. Both fights add to the story of the characters, and neither would work if they were fighting different villains with different powersets. Sure there was probably more back and forth energy blasting than was necessary but what are you gonna do in an MCU show?

[Ramza00]

Personally I think as far as Marvel fights go the mirror matches here were pretty good. Vision gets to confront who he is and whether he's real. Wanda an Agatha are essentially debating over whether Wanda is capable of controlling her own powers. Both fights add to the story of the characters, and neither would work if they were fighting different villains with different powersets. Sure there was probably more back and forth energy blasting than was necessary but what are you gonna do in an MCU show?

Nods.

One of the problems of the show with the audience is we the audience forget dramatic irony. We the audience know more than Wanda for we see other story beats through the eyes of Vision, Monica, Wu, Hayward, etc.

We know that Wanda was messing with peoples minds to an extreme degree prior to episode 9. Wanda only knows there is a hex starting with episode 3, and she does not know she is treating people like extreme puppets till Agatha revealed that fact to her.

Thus her fight with Agatha is demonstrating she can learn the precise details of magic but also she has the character to set people free from the hex and not re enslave them as soon as she learned the truth about the Hex in episode 9.

It was a mirror fight but also indicating Wanda had learn things and was not just who had more power.

[Eldan]

It felt a little cheap, since Wanda didn't really learn anything about magic at that point. It's a miracle she knew how to draw the runes.

It also seemed like an odd choice for her to keep fighting Agatha when Agatha is the only thing in the universe she isn't able to blast into smithereens.

Would have been interesting to see how that would have gone if they had switched places. Agatha would probably go down pretty fast against someone who isn't using her type of magic.

That said, I did like that White Vision was talked down, that felt fitting.

[Clertar]

Sure there was probably more back and forth energy blasting than was necessary but what are you gonna do in an MCU show?

Honestly, the power blasting and lasers shooting in the MCU has become such a trope in the popular mindset that I think it's blowing things up a little.

I keep hearing that in the finale devolved into Dragon Ball style energy shooting, but really for the Vision it amounts to a few seconds, and Wanda and Agatha's fight was literally two minutes of that (the last fourth of the clip is Wanda transforming).

[truemane]

I loved this show from the opening moment. And I really enjoyed the finale.

However, all in all, I would have preferred a smaller, quieter conclusion than a bombastic one, one that did honour to both the trauma Wanda suffered and the trauma she inflicted. There was lip service paid to the violation she committed on the people of the town, but no real accounting or amends. This seemed like a real lapse. Even as everyone was mopping up I kept thinking that being sad about your dead boyfriend can't excuse this kind of thing. Not legally and certainly not morally. But they just sort of walked up to the edge of it and then backed away.

I really enjoyed the Vision v Vision logic battle (not least because Paul Bettany was so much fun in both versions). I liked the idea that your memories are what makes you really you, as that reflects well on Wanda's version of Vision, not having his memories, wasn't really *him* no matter much he seemed like it.

And the flying and blasting, while a safe choice, was fun and exciting.

The one thing that felt like it was really missing was an actual goal for Agatha. Sure, MOAR POWER, I know, but everything else in the show was so grounded and so much care was taken to make everything feel like it belonged in a real world with real people, that I would have liked Agatha to have had more motivation. I wanted her to WANT something. And to try to get it in a way that reflects her values, which could have contrasted Wanda's values. Which would have made the Blaster Fight actually about something.

But, even in this format, comic book stories gotta comic book.

However, the one thing I did like was that there wasn't something/someone more powerful pulling Agatha's strings (Mephisto or Nightmare or whoever). She was the Big Bad. And that was good by me. I'm 100% on board with more women in mainstream properties doing bad stuff because they're bad people and not because some dude is telling them what to do.

Also, I'm totally on board for Rambeau Space Adventure, but only if she brings Darcy and Jimmy.

[GloatingSwine]

It wouldn't be a Scarlet Witch story if she didn't skate out of any consequences for massive reality altering shenanigans she caused to the detriment of everyone else *coughHouseofMcough*

[Dienekes]

What gets me, is there are some key points here where character motivation of the villains especially Sword-guy and Agatha seem to take a step back from being developed to allow them to be just be obstacles for the heroes.

Now Agatha was much better of the two partially because the actress sells it and sells it well. But I can’t help but think giving her at least more of a plan and some easy motivation would’ve helped. If perhaps Agatha thinks killing Wanda is the only way to end the spell because she’s too deranged to do it herself, all it would take is a single scene of her mind controlling Swordguy to explain why he appears to be utterly incompetent as well as overly violent.

It at the same time emphasizes Agatha as a smart mastermind style villain with a backup plan, and can even be used to give her a bit of depth of motivation: Yeah I want this power but if I fail to get it from her then Wanda certainly cannot be allowed to live and continue using it, she’s far too uncontrolled and dangerous.

And explains the overall crap that is Swordguy.

[truemane]

It wouldn't be a Scarlet Witch story if she didn't skate out of any consequences for massive reality altering shenanigans she caused to the detriment of everyone else *coughHouseofMcough*

See, I haven't read a new comic in decades. So maybe that's a thing. And it's certainly not the sort of thing I'd even think about in a 'normal' superhero story. But in this one, it felt like a lapse.

Even aside from legal entanglements (which, I get, is a can of worms), Monica & Co. were remarkably forgiving. They were all just "She's totes sad and now it's better and isn't douchey bureaucratic overreach the real enemy here? So give her a hug and send her on her way."

Which just felt a little hollow. Monica, at least, should have been FURIOUS at her.

And I don't think they needed a whole episode of restorative justice or anything (although I would love to see that superhero story). But I think they could have spend some time on a genuine, sincere reckoning of the harm she caused.

The one dude said, "When we sleep we have your nightmares." That's BAD. Really, really bad. And she didn't even really apologize.

...all it would take is a single scene of her mind controlling Swordguy to explain why he appears to be utterly incompetent as well as overly violent....

100% agreed. And/or Swordguy makes a deal with Agatha to get something on the far end, thereby making her the puppetmaster. It would have very little screen time, caused very few changes to the story, and would have helped a lot. They even set it up with Agatha talking about Mind Control. Monica could have been aware of the contrast between how he was and how he is now. Two stray elements could have been fused into one unified element.

[Psyren]

@ Those saying they wanted more "accounting" - I'm not sure what a huge emotional response to/verbal takedown of Wanda in the show's aftermath would have accomplished. The best case scenario is that you just make her feel worse (unlikely, and does nothing practical in any event), while the worst case scenario is she feels so bad you risk restarting the entire magical guilt/depression carousel all over again by hitting her buttons hard enough. Monica empathizing with rather than dogpiling/lambasting the cosmic entity seems a lot more sensible, you know? She still lost her entire family despite all her power, she's been punished enough.

The townsfolk - you know, the actual wronged parties in this situation - just wanted her to leave immediately, which she did. Shouldn't the victims get to decide what justice looks like? Or is vengeance really the goal here? Is the desire to see her punished further on their behalf, or yours?

[Gallowglass]

Yeah I'm not really sure what the people asking for accounting exactly wanted the end of the season to look like?

Did you want Wanda to look at the camera and express what she did was wrong and how sorry she was?

Did you want her to be taken into custody by SWORD and locked away like the end of Civil War? That turned out well.

Did you just find her irredeemable and wanted the other characters in the show to agree with you?

Ultimately she's a character on a journey. This was a length along that journey. I personally appreciate she's more complicated than "good guy"/"bad guy". I'm a little concerned about the vision of her inner self readign through the darkholde and being all spooky in the end credits. Not where I wanted to see her go. But at least it makes some sense.

I find it ironic that the same people who seem to me to be complaining about her not facing enough consequence at the end of the series seem to be the same voices lamenting the black/white-ness of marvel morality. Here's a perfect example of difficult answers to difficult questions.

There is no force on earth that can punish/contain the Scarlet Witch (short of killing her and who knows if that even works) The only hope for containing her is her. That's someone you have to convince to herself she is good instead of evil. So Monica, Darcy et al go in there all "You are evil! You ahve to be stopped" and she goes further down rather than further up.

[Gray Mage]

It's not even like this is the end of her journey/story. We know she's gonna appear in other movies and that she will participate in these next phases/storylines. It's like complaining that Scott was stranded in the quantum realm in the stinger of Ant man and the wasp was a loose end.

[Dienekes]

@ Those saying they wanted more "accounting" - I'm not sure what a huge emotional response to/verbal takedown of Wanda in the show's aftermath would have accomplished. The best case scenario is that you just make her feel worse (unlikely, and does nothing practical in any event), while the worst case scenario is she feels so bad you risk restarting the entire magical guilt/depression carousel all over again by hitting her buttons hard enough. Monica empathizing with rather than dogpiling/lambasting the cosmic entity seems a lot more sensible, you know? She still lost her entire family despite all her power, she's been punished enough.

The townsfolk - you know, the actual wronged parties in this situation - just wanted her to leave immediately, which she did. Shouldn't the victims get to decide what justice looks like? Or is vengeance really the goal here? Is the desire to see her punished further on their behalf, or yours?

Did the victims decide what justice looked like?

All I saw were townspeople staring at her not really moving at all. Not indicating their feelings instead having the protagonists give incredibly brief statements about them “not understanding what she went through.” Which was the most pathetic attempt to get us on Wanda’s side here.

It’s interesting, to me at least, that the great crux of the story that a lot of the horror and problem revolved around was that Wanda had taken these living people and made them her puppets, taking away any their very personhood, and very literally enslaving them.

And when this bit of the story was done, they get their freedom back and... just stand there. Doing nothing with it. Making no indication what they’re thinking. Their personhood is back and the writers still don’t really use them as more than props for the protagonists to talk about.

Now on one hand. Yeah. They are clearly terrified of what’s going on. And staring at her does -a little- to showcase that what she was doing was wrong.

But the odd part comes when Wanda asks Monica what she thought. And instead of remarking at all upon what horrors they just went through, she brings it back to how hard it must be for Wanda to not keep these people enslaved. Which just feels like a missed opportunity more than anything.

Sure in a just world Wanda would go to prison for kidnapping an entire town. But we’re not going to get that. At the very least Monica could have remained sympathetic but bring attention to the true victims of this story= the civilians.

“What do you think?”

“I think you did something terrible, but you can grow to be better and not let your anger cause you to bring your burden upon others.”

Or something written well by an actual writer and not some dweeb online who the ending just didn’t sit right with. But something that recognizing what horrors had just gone on here. And not went with “Your life is so sad, Wanda. This whole thing must have been so sad for you. These people just don’t even know how sad it must be to lose a loved one. That so rarely happens. So sad.”

And that’s really it. I’m fine with Wanda going off into the sunset lesson learned (or not). But there is so much build up at the horrifying things Wanda has done to these people. And I never felt the emotional fulfillment of all that horror being dealt with. There was very little emotional release about that topic. Which made the end weak -for me-

There was a whole lot of emotional release on the Vision question. And I would guess if you were really interested in the Wanda/Vision romance that might have been where you got your fulfillment in the story. As for me, I was 100% more interested in the Stepford Horror of the thing.

Others can disagree completely of course. This is after all just a story. It clearly worked fine for you.

[Draconi Redfir]

Did the victims decide what justice looked like?

All I saw were townspeople staring at her not really moving at all. Not indicating their feelings instead having the protagonists give incredibly brief statements about them “not understanding what she went through.” Which was the most pathetic attempt to get us on Wanda’s side here.

Well what do you want? them to knock her down and beat her in the streets? I'm sorry, but that's not happening.

[Dienekes]

Well what do you want? them to knock her down and beat her in the streets? I'm sorry, but that's not happening.

Of course it’s not happening. But claiming that what we saw was fair justice according to the victims seemed a ridiculous statement to me. Which was my point.

Hell even in the rest of my post I point out that the main problem was Monica given the opportunity to bring up the horrors and just not taking it.

But if we are attempting to show these people as actually human and not just background props actually showing the breadth of human reactions would have worked. Crying, screaming, people clutching at each other begging Wanda not to put them under again. Some ‘roided out arse demanding she pay for her actions before terrified people silence them.

That sort of thing.

[Psyren]

Yeah I'm not really sure what the people asking for accounting exactly wanted the end of the season to look like?

Did you want Wanda to look at the camera and express what she did was wrong and how sorry she was?

Did you want her to be taken into custody by SWORD and locked away like the end of Civil War? That turned out well.

Did you just find her irredeemable and wanted the other characters in the show to agree with you?

Ultimately she's a character on a journey. This was a length along that journey. I personally appreciate she's more complicated than "good guy"/"bad guy". I'm a little concerned about the vision of her inner self readign through the darkholde and being all spooky in the end credits. Not where I wanted to see her go. But at least it makes some sense.

I find it ironic that the same people who seem to me to be complaining about her not facing enough consequence at the end of the series seem to be the same voices lamenting the black/white-ness of marvel morality. Here's a perfect example of difficult answers to difficult questions.

There is no force on earth that can punish/contain the Scarlet Witch (short of killing her and who knows if that even works) The only hope for containing her is her. That's someone you have to convince to herself she is good instead of evil. So Monica, Darcy et al go in there all "You are evil! You ahve to be stopped" and she goes further down rather than further up.

All of this.

And she DID look at the camera and say "I'm sorry for all the pain I caused." I guess she needed a Sorry Booth for all the townsfolk to visit? Flyers maybe? A post on their Nextdoor full of crying emoji?

Did the victims decide what justice looked like?

All I saw were townspeople staring at her not really moving at all. Not indicating their feelings instead having the protagonists give incredibly brief statements about them “not understanding what she went through.” Which was the most pathetic attempt to get us on Wanda’s side here.

"It wouldn't change how they see me" which Monica nods in agreement with. Short of cutaway interviews with the townsfolk individually, or maybe a SurveyMonkey, that's as close to authoritative as a show is likely to get you.

It’s interesting, to me at least, that the great crux of the story that a lot of the horror and problem revolved around was that Wanda had taken these living people and made them her puppets, taking away any their very personhood, and very literally enslaving them.

And when this bit of the story was done, they get their freedom back and... just stand there. Doing nothing with it. Making no indication what they’re thinking. Their personhood is back and the writers still don’t really use them as more than props for the protagonists to talk about.

They were collectively traumatized. Again, what exactly did you want? Pitchforks and torches? Dancing in the streets? A bacchanal? What?

EDIT: Oh, you wanted them crying and screaming. Because everyone has to process trauma the way you want them to in order for it to be believable, or something.

“I think you did something terrible, but you can grow to be better and not let your anger cause you to bring your burden upon others.”

What do you think "I don't understand this power, but I will" is meant to mean? She has stated her goal, which is to not lose control and hurt people like this again. Since she (clearly) can't change the past, that is the next best way to make amends.

[Ramza00]

Like I said earlier they took out scenes for this final episode.

I did not like the Monica line with "they don't know what you gave up" (I am paraphrasing I am not going to look up the precise verbage) where Monica said that to Wanda. It felt like a director or writer doing a wink and a nod to the audience. I would not have said it.

If it has to be said I would have Wanda herself saying a line in return like this (this is off my head,

• yes I gave up a lot but it was the right thing to do.
• It is not my right to hurt people by accident, to hurt people with my grief.
• I need to make things up for them,
• but I don't know how,,
• and right now I am just hurting them by being here,
• for they are scared of me, and I understand why they are scared.

Wanda then leaves and she departs with the Book of the Damned / The Darkhold and we see Wanda reading it in the post credit scene.

-----

I just want to remind people that "legal justice" with the law and such is not necessarily the best way to do justice. It is more or less the traditional way to do justice based off past experiences with other people, and even then it both goes too far sometimes and other times it does too little (like letting a perpetrator go free if the justice system is not beyond a reasonable doubt confident of the verdict, what I am saying here is the justice system has intent and then a test to match that intent, which is separate from the actual bad and good that occured in the past.)

Being able to do magic that affect thousands of people, with no intent, is not something our "traditional" system of laws was designed to handle. It is trying to shove a square in a round hole. We have to admit the limits of this rigid system and still insist on justice, consequences, restitution, atonement, etc but it will be more freeform and a meeting of minds. A renegotiation of boundaries which is what atonement is all about.

[truemane]

The townsfolk - you know, the actual wronged parties in this situation - just wanted her to leave immediately, which she did. Shouldn't the victims get to decide what justice looks like? Or is vengeance really the goal here? Is the desire to see her punished further on their behalf, or yours?

Right. But they aren't real people. They're fictional. So they only did that because someone wrote them that way. Which is sort of my gripe.

Superhero stories aren't usually about collateral damage. The Hulk busts a hole in a building fighting a bad guy and the frame moves on. It doesn't show how that building is shut down for weeks and the insurance company refuses to pay out so the landlord jacks up the rent and the business inside go broke and people lose their jobs and get evicted. You ever get in even a minor car accident? Ruins your whole day! Imagine a bricks falls on your car on your way to work and totals it. That could sink someone's whole life. And those things must happen, just off-frame, all the time in the MCU. But superhero stories aren't about that so we don't worry about it.

Similarly, a real-life superhero, even one with powers, would be, among other things, absolutely riddled with PTSD. The scars and wounds of constant violence and fear and loss would make them all emotional wrecks. But superhero stories aren't (usually) about that, so we don't worry about it.

But this story was about that. It was about trauma. And loss. And grief. And collateral damage. Vision dying so Thanos could get his stone was just a dramatic moment in Infinity War, just one of many. And once it's off frame, we just stopped thinking about. But this story, Wanda's story, was about the long tail of grief and loss.

So, to do that, and then more-or-less ignore the fact that, in her grief, she inflicted a heinous violation on a whole town of people just feels off. And, in fact to specifically emphasize the horror of what she inflicted. And then ignore it. They could have managed it in-universe in lots of ways. Everyone could have no memory. Everyone could be having a wonderful time. They could have been illusions and the real people were all in stasis. But they didn't do that. They showed the suffering, and then stepped away from it.

Just felt like a missed opportunity I guess.

Well what do you want? them to knock her down and beat her in the streets? I'm sorry, but that's not happening.

Well, there's a whole infinite gamut of possibilities between 'brought up and then ignored' and 'beat Wanda in the streets.' Even a scene where she sincerely acknowledges the pain she's caused, apologizes, and vows to be better in the future. Even a scene where Monica gets mad at her and tells her she did a bad thing, and Wanda does whatever in response.

[Ramza00]

Sidenote I am curious if there was any negative effects for the neighboring cities besides WestView. They do not remember WestView exists per episode 4, yet the SWORD and FBI remember that Westview exists for they are outside the range. Those neighboring cities are not in the Hex dome.

So did those people outside the Hex Dome have any negative effects or they just forgot about WestView? I am curious for I bet this is going to be something similar to how Agatha operates once she is outside the collapsed hex.

[Tyndmyr]

But if we are attempting to show these people as actually human and not just background props actually showing the breadth of human reactions would have worked. Crying, screaming, people clutching at each other begging Wanda not to put them under again. Some ‘roided out arse demanding she pay for her actions before terrified people silence them.

That sort of thing.

That would help, yeah.

It's not that Wanda, specifically, needs to make a big deal of it, but that the writers ought to have. Being body puppeted long term is explicitly called out as a horror. It should be treated as one. Either that, or you need to explain why it's not. Neither happened.

I would expect chaos as people break down, the same way that EVERYONE broke down previously when individuals were temporarily loosed from her control.

This is honestly just basic consistency.

[truemane]

That would help, yeah.

It's not that Wanda, specifically, needs to make a big deal of it, but that the writers ought to have. Being body puppeted long term is explicitly called out as a horror. It should be treated as one. Either that, or you need to explain why it's not. Neither happened.

I would expect chaos as people break down, the same way that EVERYONE broke down previously when individuals were temporarily loosed from her control.

This is honestly just basic consistency.

You said it better and more succinctly than I did.

[Psyren]

Right. But they aren't real people. They're fictional. So they only did that because someone wrote them that way. Which is sort of my gripe.

Superhero stories aren't usually about collateral damage. The Hulk busts a hole in a building fighting a bad guy and the frame moves on. It doesn't show how that building is shut down for weeks and the insurance company refuses to pay out so the landlord jacks up the rent and the business inside go broke and people lose their jobs and get evicted. You ever get in even a minor car accident? Ruins your whole day! Imagine a bricks falls on your car on your way to work and totals it. That could sink someone's whole life. And those things must happen, just off-frame, all the time in the MCU. But superhero stories aren't about that so we don't worry about it.

Similarly, a real-life superhero, even one with powers, would be, among other things, absolutely riddled with PTSD. The scars and wounds of constant violence and fear and loss would make them all emotional wrecks. But superhero stories aren't (usually) about that, so we don't worry about it.

But this story was about that. It was about trauma. And loss. And grief. And collateral damage. Vision dying so Thanos could get his stone was just a dramatic moment in Infinity War, just one of many. And once it's off frame, we just stopped thinking about. But this story, Wanda's story, was about the long tail of grief and loss.

So, to do that, and then more-or-less ignore the fact that, in her grief, she inflicted a heinous violation on a whole town of people just feels off. And, in fact to specifically emphasize the horror of what she inflicted. And then ignore it. They could have managed it in-universe in lots of ways. Everyone could have no memory. Everyone could be having a wonderful time. They could have been illusions and the real people were all in stasis. But they didn't do that. They showed the suffering, and then stepped away from it.

Just felt like a missed opportunity I guess.

It's true that they (the townsfolk) act the way they are written. But I don't think the way they are written is unreasonable.

Yes, they went through a horrible ordeal of having their will subverted. But what do we hear from them when Agatha lifts the veil - they have also been feeling all of Wanda's grief and pain and loss the entire time. So as angry as they deserve to be at her for clamping down on their free will, on some level they also understand. That is why we get the silent treatment from them at the end, rather than either celebrations or pitchforks. It feels believable, which is all I can ask for from fictional people.

Well, there's a whole infinite gamut of possibilities between 'brought up and then ignored' and 'beat Wanda in the streets.' Even a scene where she sincerely acknowledges the pain she's caused, apologizes, and vows to be better in the future. Even a scene where Monica gets mad at her and tells her she did a bad thing, and Wanda does whatever in response.

They explicitly gave us the former. And having Monica beat her over the head with the latter adds nothing.