WandaVision

[Gallowglass]

In fairness, according to episode 9 she didn't actually know they were suffering, just that they were under mind control. She probably assumed the weird sitcom fantasy was making them happy.

Of course as Vision said, that wasn't her decision to make.

So let's address what Wanda, a person in a deep dissociative identity disorder trauma induced state did and did not know.

Remember, Wanda has some level of telepathic ability. This was revealed way back in Age of Ultron when she was routinely getting into other's heads. An ability she then abandoned until she used it against Agatha in this show. Because throwing cars at people is funner. If she had used that power on Thanos, I think Infinity War/End Game might've gone different.

Wanda is USED to hearing what's going on in other's heads.

When she entered her dissociative fugue state when she split into her over personality (protector) and inner personality (innocence) when she created the "Hex" it was completly unconscious and not-on-purpose that the others got trapped in there with her. She wanted to create a safe space, she created the safe space. She had no real control over how big the safe space got, it wasn't intentional.

But at that point, all the minds she can now touch inside the safe space read as "happy" to her. They are now safe, same as she is. In what amounts to her conscious reasoning (her protector personality, the one who created the safe space, maintains it and guards it against intrusion and threat) everyone that's in there with her are now better off and are HAPPIER in there than they were in the real world, which, to Wanda, is all loss and pain.

Sure, that's easy for us to see the lie in that, but it's impossible for her to realize. Not without therapy and someone from the outside to open her eyes, merge her over and inner personalities and let the inner personality (where all her empathy lives) to see what is being hidden from her, to protect her.

So, yeah. Up until episode 9, Wanda was unaware on a conscious level of the pain she was causing. because all the voices in the Hex were saying "Hey, I'm happy" reflecting her own false happiness back at her.

Go back and watch that reveal, when Monica or Agatha or anyone tries to confront her with the truth. You can see her confusion and her attempts to reconcile what she believes with what the truth is. The same when people start breaking free and express themselves. "We dream your nightmares! Please let my child go!"

So no. It's not as simple as "she knows what she was doing" and "she was enslaving people and hurting them" A part of her, an aggressive, unempathetic, split off part of her knows, but the core of her being didn't. And was mentally incapable of seeing it because the other part of her was actively trying to protect her from it.

There is a very meaty nuance in this story that you completely miss if you just see her as a guilty monster.

Someone, a few posts ago started something with "YOu are not a hero if..." You are right. She's not a hero. This isn't a black and white morality play that you apparently want it to be. This is something newer and different dressed up in the Marvel methodology clothes.

[Tyndmyr]

A bunch of wasted time and footage to get to, in your own words, the same outcome. I'll pass.

If you only care about getting to the ending as fast as possible, and don't care about the journey, that's what the fast forward button is for.

[Psyren]

But at that point, all the minds she can now touch inside the safe space read as "happy" to her. They are now safe, same as she is. In what amounts to her conscious reasoning (her protector personality, the one who created the safe space, maintains it and guards it against intrusion and threat) everyone that's in there with her are now better off and are HAPPIER in there than they were in the real world, which, to Wanda, is all loss and pain.

Sure, that's easy for us to see the lie in that, but it's impossible for her to realize. Not without therapy and someone from the outside to open her eyes, merge her over and inner personalities and let the inner personality (where all her empathy lives) to see what is being hidden from her, to protect her.

So, yeah. Up until episode 9, Wanda was unaware on a conscious level of the pain she was causing. because all the voices in the Hex were saying "Hey, I'm happy" reflecting her own false happiness back at her.

Exactly. This is openly stated in episode 9.

If you only care about getting to the ending as fast as possible, and don't care about the journey, that's what the fast forward button is for.

You can't "fast forward" through scripting, plotting, and shooting superfluous scenes. I do care about the journey, just not meandering through pointless wank.

[Dragonus45]

It's easy to Monday-morning-quarterback and say the show could have used "a little more clarity" without having to determine the specifics. I have yet to see a proposal to insert more of these "consequences" that wasn't goofy, asinine, or just a pointless waste of time better spent on the characters we'll actually be following once this is over.

Alright, so, I don't think the show needed to enforce consequences on Wanda as much as it needed to change it's framing of the issue to be less of a little league soft ball pitch towards her. Sure the show made it a point a few times to show the panic and desperation on the townsfolk on a few occasions when they were freed but it failed to follow through with that all around. It set up Hayward as a wildly generic Bad Male in Position of Power and then framed things with Monica poorly by making it so that any attempt to free the people other then talking her out of it and the power of friendship were Evil Bad Power Trips. Then, as things progress and you find out that Hayward was acting explicitly out of malicious bad faith the show fails by never having any character voice the idea that Wanda is ACTIVELY HARMING PEOPLE and might need to be directly and actively stopped from doing so, and that once the means to do so are found that she would then need to be punished under the law for it. So the show frames things as "Forgiving herself, letting herself grieve, and then she moves on like nothing happened and no one even pretends to tell her she should turn herself in." and "Kill her because I am a power tripping ******* MWAHAHAHAAHA HA HA H AH AH AHAHAHAHA." At the end, and this is the bare minimum here, perhaps Monica doesn't praise the abusive super human for deciding to not enslave and torture an entire town to maintain her own illusions of happiness, then basically gives her a pass for running away from it all and not even making the token effort of cooperating with the authorities in the aftermath the very horror she had wrought. I actually cannot imagine how that scene made it past everyone involved to land in the final product.

[Tyndmyr]

You can't "fast forward" through scripting, plotting, and shooting superfluous scenes. I do care about the journey, just not meandering through pointless wank.

The hijacked town is literally the reason most of the characters are here. Addressing the completion of that arc is quite significant to the story.

The denoument literally exists for wrapping up such details, that's its purpose, not the hero patting themselves on the back for no longer mindslaving folks.

[hungrycrow]

Exactly. This is openly stated in episode 9.

Is any of this actually made explicit? I don't remember the show ever mentioning a second personality, or that the second personality was feeding the first one false mind-readings.

[Ronnoc]

For clarities sake, I liked the show and the finally and enjoy the nuances in Wanda's character.

I can understand where people view her as being somewhat villainous. There's ambiguity in how much Wanda is affected by her own resets and I generally don't recommend psychoanalyzing anyone without actually having the chance to interview them. Personally I don't take will-full ignorance, no matter how trauma induced as a mitigating factor in a person's culpability.

Ultimately she did do the right thing. Is she a hero? No. Is she a villain? Again no. Could she end up as either? I look forward to finding out.

[Kornaki]

To people defending the show.

Why didn't Monica say "hey, you should talk to a therapist, need help finding one?" Wanda was in so much phycological anguish that she kidnapped a town for a week, but now..... She's better? After going through more anguish at giving up her new family? Was Monica supposed to think this was therapeutic for her?


If the rest of the show was exactly the same, but at the end Monica said hey wanda, I know you're in pain but that was a jerk move, and wanda replied with yeah I have a lot of stuff I need to work through to get better control of my power, no one would be complaining here I think. Literally it's just their conversation at the end put so much of the negative focus on the townspeople for not getting how Wanda felt, and none of it on Wanda for doing something even subconsciously. I don't disagree with anything else that's being said about how the show was trying to present it, but that one conversation was *so* bad. Just... so bad.

[hungrycrow]

To people defending the show.

Why didn't Monica say "hey, you should talk to a therapist, need help finding one?" Wanda was in so much phycological anguish that she kidnapped a town for a week, but now..... She's better? After going through more anguish at giving up her new family? Was Monica supposed to think this was therapeutic for her?


If the rest of the show was exactly the same, but at the end Monica said hey wanda, I know you're in pain but that was a jerk move, and wanda replied with yeah I have a lot of stuff I need to work through to get better control of my power, no one would be complaining here I think. Literally it's just their conversation at the end put so much of the negative focus on the townspeople for not getting how Wanda felt, and none of it on Wanda for doing something even subconsciously. I don't disagree with anything else that's being said about how the show was trying to present it, but that one conversation was *so* bad. Just... so bad.

Hey, if characters start approaching their problems like reasonable adults, how are we going to get endless sequels?

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Hey, if characters start approaching their problems like reasonable adults, how are we going to get endless sequels?

Make the therapists super villains. (In seriousness that’s been done before.)

[Ronnoc]

We just did Mysterio though

[Psyren]

The hijacked town is literally the reason most of the characters are here. Addressing the completion of that arc is quite significant to the story.

The denoument literally exists for wrapping up such details, that's its purpose, not the hero patting themselves on the back for no longer mindslaving folks.

If you really took "patting herself on the back" from that ending, I genuinely don't know what else to tell you, nor do I see a point in continuing.

Is any of this actually made explicit? I don't remember the show ever mentioning a second personality, or that the second personality was feeding the first one false mind-readings.

The "happy / peace" false feelings she was incorrectly getting from the townsfolk? Yes, she says that.

Ultimately she did do the right thing. Is she a hero? No. Is she a villain? Again no. Could she end up as either? I look forward to finding out.

This.

[BRC]

Alright, so, I don't think the show needed to enforce consequences on Wanda as much as it needed to change it's framing of the issue to be less of a little league soft ball pitch towards her. Sure the show made it a point a few times to show the panic and desperation on the townsfolk on a few occasions when they were freed but it failed to follow through with that all around. It set up Hayward as a wildly generic Bad Male in Position of Power and then framed things with Monica poorly by making it so that any attempt to free the people other then talking her out of it and the power of friendship were Evil Bad Power Trips. Then, as things progress and you find out that Hayward was acting explicitly out of malicious bad faith the show fails by never having any character voice the idea that Wanda is ACTIVELY HARMING PEOPLE and might need to be directly and actively stopped from doing so, and that once the means to do so are found that she would then need to be punished under the law for it. So the show frames things as "Forgiving herself, letting herself grieve, and then she moves on like nothing happened and no one even pretends to tell her she should turn herself in." and "Kill her because I am a power tripping ******* MWAHAHAHAAHA HA HA H AH AH AHAHAHAHA." At the end, and this is the bare minimum here, perhaps Monica doesn't praise the abusive super human for deciding to not enslave and torture an entire town to maintain her own illusions of happiness, then basically gives her a pass for running away from it all and not even making the token effort of cooperating with the authorities in the aftermath the very horror she had wrought. I actually cannot imagine how that scene made it past everyone involved to land in the final product.

From a Doylist perspective, it's because this story is primarily about Person vs Self, at least theoretically.

The dramatic meat of Wandavision is Wanda dealing with her grief, and with that in mind the lack of resolution makes a sort of sense? Like, we're supposed to care primarily about Wanda's personal journey with everything else as set dressing. The real Drama here is "How will Wanda develop and process her grief".


Except...we don't really see that personal journey. Not really.

Wanda is in denial/unaware, and then she is actively defending the Hex, and then she is forced to confront her grief somewhat, but we don't really see her process that, because it all gets swept up in a big fight with Agatha/ the revelation that she's not merely puppeting the townsfolk. We never actually see her DEAL with her grief besides not dealing with it, and I guess in the end accepting that what she's doing is wrong and stopping it even though it means giving up her family.

I feel like the thematic equivalent they were going for would be a fantastical realism story about a woman who copes with grief by locking herself in her apartment watching old sitcoms and vividly hallucinating herself into said sitcoms, while her friends become increasingly worried about her and try to intervene, with the end result being that she has to accept and move on, no matter how painful it is.

And in the hypothetical story above, the fact that the protagonist leaves their apartment and decides to move on is all the resolution you need.


But this is also a superhero story. Wanda wasn't just sitting in her apartment. She was harming people.

The issue with how the story is currently presented is that there's no real evidence of Wanda processing her grief.

As of Episode 7 or so, she's fully aware of what is happening, but is refusing to deal with it. In episode 9 she learns the extent to which she is hurting people, and almost immediately opens the Hex and lets people go, and later decides to collapse the Hex, even though it means giving up her family.

The thing that forces the change is not Wanda processing her grief, but Wanda learning that the Hex is doing more harm than she previously thought.

"I'm okay with staking out a section of reality to play-act a happy sitcom life with a family I literally willed into existence, but not if I'm hurting people while doing so" is a fine stance to take, but if the emotional resolution of the story is supposed to be Wanda processing her grief and moving on, then that doesn't really work. We don't have evidence that she's processed anything, she has just changed her mind in light of new information.

That said, as the show is presented, there isn't a great way to show that resolution without making Wanda a monster.

If you have her fully aware of the harm she is doing, but decide to keep it up anyway, and then later she's forced to confront her grief and decides to dismantle the Hex, then you have Wanda Willingly Tortured People.

The other approach would be to present her with an opportunity to keep the Hex going in some form that DOESN'T hurt people, but she's processed her grief and decided to move on, and so she gives that up. But, Vision and the Minimoffs are presented as fully sentient, so in that version we have Wanda saying "Well, I don't need you anymore, Husband and Family, I'm getting rid of you now".


The current version makes a lot of sense, when presented with the full extent of the harm she is causing, Wanda is forced to move past her grief because the alternative is unacceptable to her. But if what we're supposed to be invested in is Wanda's development, that doesn't work, because she doesn't really develop.


Without Wanda's Development as the thing we're supposed to care about, we have a more traditional story, where the audience is invested in the events of the story. In this case, the Events of the story are "Wanda kidnapped and tortured a town for weeks, but the important thing is that she was really sad".

[Kareeah_Indaga]

The current version makes a lot of sense, when presented with the full extent of the harm she is causing, Wanda is forced to move past her grief because the alternative is unacceptable to her. But if what we're supposed to be invested in is Wanda's development, that doesn't work, because she doesn't really develop.

Second this. The fact that she’s hearing her sitcom children screaming at the end underscores that she hasn’t really let go, and having her astral projection read through the Darkhold suggests that her current plan is ‘learn to make a better Hex’ or otherwise re-obtain the sitcom family without the drawbacks of her first attempt.

[Ramza00]

So change of subject. How many episodes could we get about an Agatha series where she enters the hex and is trying to figure out what is happening and we see things from Agatha’s perspective? Aka a “wicked” tv show?

2 episodes, 3 episodes, a movie, 9 episodes? How many episodes before it switches from incredible to not good?

Second this. The fact that she’s hearing her sitcom children screaming at the end underscores that she hasn’t really let go, and having her astral projection read through the Darkhold suggests that her current plan is ‘learn to make a better Hex’ or otherwise re-obtain the sitcom family without the drawbacks of her first attempt.

Those kids are future Young Avengers!

[BRC]

Those kids are future Young Avengers!

By my count, we're up to 4 Confirmed Young Avengers?

Spoiler

Show

Cassie Lang was unsnapped, and so aged up from adorable child to Teen.

Kate Bishop has been confirmed in the Hawkeye show.

Billy and Tommy are out there somewhere?

as for the rest

Falcon and Winter Soldier might introduce Elijah Bradley and that whole subplot, which can bring Patriot into play, since I think Marvel got the rights to the character back.

The MCU has established Mar Vell as working with the Skrulls, so Teddy as the son of Mar Vell and an unnamed Skrull isn't unreasonable. It probably wouldn't be the same "Prophecized Emperor of the United Kree/Skrull Empire" type deal, but it's there.

Iron Lad is a maybe, now that Time Travel is a thing.

Young Vision is probably out. That whole plotline is a little too weird.

Loki is about to do a bunch of time travel, and Tom Hiddleston's contract can't be up for much longer. We could have Loki de-aged, replaced with a younger actor for his participation.

As they start messing around with the Multiverse, it's pretty easy for America Chavez to show up.

My guess is that we'll see a mash up of the original Young Avengers team, and some of the other popular Teen characters, like Ironheart and Ms. Marvel.

[Psyren]

By my count, we're up to 4 Confirmed Young Avengers?

Spoiler

Show

Cassie Lang was unsnapped, and so aged up from adorable child to Teen.

Kate Bishop has been confirmed in the Hawkeye show.

Billy and Tommy are out there somewhere?

as for the rest

Falcon and Winter Soldier might introduce Elijah Bradley and that whole subplot, which can bring Patriot into play, since I think Marvel got the rights to the character back.

The MCU has established Mar Vell as working with the Skrulls, so Teddy as the son of Mar Vell and an unnamed Skrull isn't unreasonable. It probably wouldn't be the same "Prophecized Emperor of the United Kree/Skrull Empire" type deal, but it's there.

Iron Lad is a maybe, now that Time Travel is a thing.

Young Vision is probably out. That whole plotline is a little too weird.

Loki is about to do a bunch of time travel, and Tom Hiddleston's contract can't be up for much longer. We could have Loki de-aged, replaced with a younger actor for his participation.

As they start messing around with the Multiverse, it's pretty easy for America Chavez to show up.

My guess is that we'll see a mash up of the original Young Avengers team, and some of the other popular Teen characters, like Ironheart and Ms. Marvel.

I fully expect Ms. Marvel / Kamala to show up soon too. Perhaps in CM2?

[BRC]

I fully expect Ms. Marvel / Kamala to show up soon too. Perhaps in CM2?

They've already cast her and started work on her Disney+ Show.

[Psyren]

They've already cast her and started work on her Disney+ Show.

Right, but I meant before that. Or at least, possibly introducing an unpowered Kamala to start.

[Ramza00]

By my count, we're up to 4 Confirmed Young Avengers?

Spoiler

Show

Cassie Lang was unsnapped, and so aged up from adorable child to Teen.

Kate Bishop has been confirmed in the Hawkeye show.

Billy and Tommy are out there somewhere?

as for the rest

Falcon and Winter Soldier might introduce Elijah Bradley and that whole subplot, which can bring Patriot into play, since I think Marvel got the rights to the character back.

The MCU has established Mar Vell as working with the Skrulls, so Teddy as the son of Mar Vell and an unnamed Skrull isn't unreasonable. It probably wouldn't be the same "Prophecized Emperor of the United Kree/Skrull Empire" type deal, but it's there.

Iron Lad is a maybe, now that Time Travel is a thing.

Young Vision is probably out. That whole plotline is a little too weird.

Loki is about to do a bunch of time travel, and Tom Hiddleston's contract can't be up for much longer. We could have Loki de-aged, replaced with a younger actor for his participation.

As they start messing around with the Multiverse, it's pretty easy for America Chavez to show up.

My guess is that we'll see a mash up of the original Young Avengers team, and some of the other popular Teen characters, like Ironheart and Ms. Marvel.

What you said BRC and there are even more evidences of characters but sometimes they are wrong. For example Casting Calls for certain named YAers to talent agencies and said YAers were going to be in WandaVISION per the casting call, but then it did not happen. This is because “lying” and “misdirection” is acceptable in the industry. For example Dr Strange 2 in legal documents in the UK for permits and so on went under the name “Stellar Vortex“ during its preproduction and filming.

Everything is in flux, we are getting YA in the MCU but the precise amount, the actors, etc, may change. For example Cassie Cang has had at least 3 actresses play her due to aging up between movies and the snap, plus one of the Actresses broke the embargo and Disney decided they should recast her.

And by my count I think we are getting both YA characters but also Champions (the new 2010s Team while the YA was more 2005 to 2014 before becoming full Avengers.) The MCU is exciting with its infinite possibilities but also way too tired 3 act familiar structure.

For example Ms. Marvel Kamala Khan and Ironheart are two Champions but there are also more of them.

[ecarden]

What would I have liked to see?

I'm okay with the crowd's reaction. Frankly, confronting her would have felt unbelievable to me, given the power imbalance that they have to be intimately aware of.

Monica's reaction...depends on how you read it. If you read it as entirely sincere, it's not great. If you read it as an attempt by a military officer to manipulate a potential threat, or motivate a potential ally...less bad. So, I'd go with that reading and have Wanda recognize it, which she ought to. She is powerful and scary and has been for a while at this point. People walking on eggshells should be nothing new:

"They'll never know how much you sacrificed for them."

"You don't have to handle me."

"Don't I?"

"No."

"Good. So you're all better?"

"I think we both know it doesn't work like that."

"Good. What's next for you, then?"

"I can't fix this. My presence will just make this worse. I need to go and get this under control so nothing like this can happen again."

"Where are you going?"

"Asking for SWORD?"

"Frankly, yes."

"Then I think I'll keep that my little secret. Thank you, for what you did and tried to do."

That's my little scene. I think it does a more explicit job of identifying the problems without requiring hostility or even punishment (though from the perspective of the townsfolk, both are warranted).

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Spoiler

Show

As they start messing around with the Multiverse, it's pretty easy for America Chavez to show up.

My guess is that we'll see a mash up of the original Young Avengers team, and some of the other popular Teen characters, like Ironheart and Ms. Marvel.

America Chavez is supposed to show up in Dr. Strange’s next film. Ms. Marvel and Ironheart both have TV shows coming up and Ms. Marvel is set to appear in Captain Marvel 2 (along with Monica) last I heard.

[Mordar]

I am somewhat surprised by the particular set of outcomes represented by two quotes:

"Have fun in prison" and "It wouldn't change how they see me".

They could easily be applied the other way - the first to the very powerful woman who has, in her short tenure, provided vital aid to something intent on destroying all of humanity and specifically triggered the destruction of a large portion of Johannesburg (and yes, we can pretend no one died in all of that), was the accused murderer of several innocents in Lagos, and then enslaved a community full of people, controlling their bodies and minds for several days, and the second to the too gung-ho guy trying to take out the extremely powerful person who has kidnapped those same dozens/scores of people.

And yeah, prison isn't the best location for rehabilitation...but sometimes the purpose of it is to keep people, particularly repeat offenders, from re-offending.

I like Wanda the character, and I like how she is portrayed by the actor...but in this show she is definitely a villain. Very believably human and very easy to sympathize/empathize with...and undeniably in the wrong at great cost to those caught in her wake. Yes, her victims did just want her to go away...but they were also so scarred that they offered another solution to her letting them go, and that was for them to die instead. Not a ringing endorsement of the tragic would-be-hero.

- M

PS: Yes, Hayward was reduced to mustache twirling by the end so we wouldn't have to consider him as anything more than a 1-dimensional stereotyped bad guy. Heck, his demographics made that inevitable...but there are an awful lot of movies/books/issues where he'd be the hero of this particular arc (minus the Xanatosian reanimate Vision scheme, that is).

[Ramza00]

I am somewhat surprised by the particular set of outcomes represented by two quotes:

"Have fun in prison"

There were supposed to be more Hayward and Darcy scenes in Episode 9 but it was cut due to VFX time.

Likewise Monica, Quicksilver (after the necklace was removed), and the Twins were supposed to run away from a Demon Bunny ( Señor Scratchy Agatha's familiar ) which shape changed into a more menacing form. This is similar to The Goonies, and a similar comic scene with Agatha's cat familiar. They were in the area of Senor Scratchy for the twins saw the book and they wanted to steal the Book of the Damned.

[Psyren]

And yeah, prison isn't the best location for rehabilitation...but sometimes the purpose of it is to keep people, particularly repeat offenders, from re-offending.

Given that the offense in question is intrinsic to Wanda's being, prison would be utterly useless at that function.

PS: Yes, Hayward was reduced to mustache twirling by the end so we wouldn't have to consider him as anything more than a 1-dimensional stereotyped bad guy. Heck, his demographics made that inevitable...but there are an awful lot of movies/books/issues where he'd be the hero of this particular arc (minus the Xanatosian reanimate Vision scheme, that is).

He tried to drone strike her before he even knew what was going on, as well as open fire on two kids. And before the Hex even existed, he thought the ideal way to reveal to the traumatized woman with cosmic powers that he was strip-mining her lover for parts was to show her his shredded body stretched out across several tables. Her psychotic break is entirely his fault.

[Mordar]

Given that the offense in question is intrinsic to Wanda's being, prison would be utterly useless at that function.

Arguably. Rendering what solution for the situation beyond hoping she just goes away?

This isn't an example of "lock the mutant up, she might do something bad!", this is "she has continued to use her extreme power to put innocents/bystanders as risk and caused palpable harm on several occasions". Yes, her hand has sucked epically. That give her a pass to make hundreds of other lives suck? Heck, she's even worse than zero-sum...her net contributions to Avenger-ing have been negative. So we can't even trot out heroism to even the scales. As much as I want to like her in the MCU (and mostly do), the "reality" of her actions in MCU screams out for Phantom Zone (since the Ice Box collar thing won't work on her)...or something worse.

He tried to drone strike her before he even knew what was going on, as well as open fire on two kids. And before the Hex even existed, he thought the ideal way to reveal to the traumatized woman with cosmic powers that he was strip-mining her lover for parts was to show her his shredded body stretched out across several tables. Her psychotic break is entirely his fault.

...much of which was revealed "later on"...but as for what was going on preceding the drone strike, there was ample reason to believe that she had taken X people hostage and was perpetrating potentially the ultimate invasion of their freedom. Motivation doesn't matter much there.

But we're faced with two (okay, 2.5) possibilities on the drone strike...one, he was legitimately trying to kill her, or two, he was trying to get the energy to restart Vision (2.5 being Xanatos, because clearly he is just that smart...). If #1, then it should have been classic sniper-on-kidnapper, and while fraught with dilemma has well established rules of engagement. Clearly we're now meant to believe it was #2 all along, but even that seems to require higher order thought than the character we were presented seems able to achieve.

I think the writers/developers/producers missed out (by intent, by accident, by COVID, whatever) on an opportunity for a much more compelling opportunity with the three primary forces in play (Wanda, SWORD, Agatha) by rendering 2 of them jokes/caricatures and making Wanda - while the ultimate bad actor* - utterly sympathetic. We really could have had a set of competing sympathetic motivations with untenable options, and instead we got a story where worst criminal in the bunch skates after imposing her own brutal sentence the funhouse mirror version of her powerset, and the joke character swoops in to take out the cardboard cutout villain.

I mostly have faith in the creatives in MCU (and in general I am patient enough to wait and see a while), so the bill could still come due for Wanda. That's my hope, particularly if it is in a compelling fashion because I like the Olsen portrayal and I think there's so much opportunity for the character. The more steps down the road to Hell, though, the harder it is pay it off with a satisfying redemption.

- M

* - Actor = person taking actions, not person portraying the character on the screen.

[Ramza00]

When you turn life into a math question and say only certain people deserve life for they are wicked...

This is the environment, the society, in which WITCHES emerge!

[Psyren]

Arguably. Rendering what solution for the situation beyond hoping she just goes away?

This isn't an example of "lock the mutant up, she might do something bad!", this is "she has continued to use her extreme power to put innocents/bystanders as risk and caused palpable harm on several occasions". Yes, her hand has sucked epically. That give her a pass to make hundreds of other lives suck? Heck, she's even worse than zero-sum...her net contributions to Avenger-ing have been negative. So we can't even trot out heroism to even the scales. As much as I want to like her in the MCU (and mostly do), the "reality" of her actions in MCU screams out for Phantom Zone (since the Ice Box collar thing won't work on her)...or something worse.

Your suggestions are academic and pointless. There IS no "phantom zone", no "collar" or any other euphemistic civil liberties violation you can come up with, in the MCU. There is regular jail, and possibly the Raft, which is just "thick jail with computers." Again, utterly useless vs. a reality warper, and likely to be worse than useless if the stress it causes starts to affect her already fragile psyche.

My suggestion is what she is doing - now that she has both the knowledge and means to begin understanding her power better, she is likely to be the best check on it. Will that work out perfectly to start with, probably not, but at least she'll be more alone doing that than she would be if they tossed her in a box upstate.

...much of which was revealed "later on"...but as for what was going on preceding the drone strike, there was ample reason to believe that she had taken X people hostage and was perpetrating potentially the ultimate invasion of their freedom. Motivation doesn't matter much there.

But intention does, and they had every reason to believe that she was caught up in the masquerade as involuntarily as they were. Slightly less so it turns out, but not enough to matter.

I mostly have faith in the creatives in MCU (and in general I am patient enough to wait and see a while), so the bill could still come due for Wanda. That's my hope, particularly if it is in a compelling fashion because I like the Olsen portrayal and I think there's so much opportunity for the character. The more steps down the road to Hell, though, the harder it is pay it off with a satisfying redemption.

I'm quite satisfied so far. They can't please everyone and it would be a fool's errand to try.

[Mordar]

Your suggestions are academic and pointless.

All the suggestions here are academic and pointless. No one here controls the story being told. However, the spirit of discussion and the appreciation for the story drives us to 26 pages of forum posts.

There IS no "phantom zone", no "collar" or any other euphemistic civil liberties violation you can come up with, in the MCU. There is regular jail, and possibly the Raft, which is just "thick jail with computers." Again, utterly useless vs. a reality warper, and likely to be worse than useless if the stress it causes starts to affect her already fragile psyche.

Absolutely...hence the "or something worse". Absent external restraint with a high likelihood of success, what are the remaining options? Clearly you are in favor of the current option. I want Wanda's story to continue, so I guess I am as well, certainly compared to execution. I assume running to a higher power is the next solution we'll see (refer to bottom of the post), and we have every meta-reason to expect that will work out.

Aside: Curious how long it will take between mutants appearing and anti-mutant-power-wonder-tech appearing.

Civil liberty violations abounded in WandaVision. When one violates so many others' liberties, society often deprioritizes the liberties of that one.

My suggestion is what she is doing - now that she has both the knowledge and means to begin understanding her power better, she is likely to be the best check on it. Will that work out perfectly to start with, probably not, but at least she'll be more alone doing that than she would be if they tossed her in a box upstate.

Because we know she's a face and not a heel, yes. Stripped of that metaknowledge, she is a reality warper who has shown terrible decision making (as the result of manipulation, perhaps...which still suggests she is subject to manipulation that will lead her to commit some pretty egregious actions), including her now second overt act of massive carnage...and now she's off reading the Naughty Book of Magic MCU Powers.

Don't Poke the Bear makes sense for many. Hope the bully grows out of it. Hope the abuser recognizes what they are doing is wrong and stops.

But is that the reasonable course for "authorities" in world? Just hope the very strangely powerful entity elects to not re-offend, intentionally or otherwise? Maybe we'll get to see what non-cardboard villain authorities try to do later.

But intention does, and they had every reason to believe that she was caught up in the masquerade as involuntarily as they were. Slightly less so it turns out, but not enough to matter.

At that point didn't they already know that Wanda had some agency in the matter? She had ejected Monica because Monica was meddling, right? Or am I confused on the timeline?

I'm quite satisfied so far. They can't please everyone and it would be a fool's errand to try.

Obviously, and we shouldn't be spoonfed either. There are suggestions Wanda is the "villain" in Dr. Strange 2, and this story clearly isn't over. I just hope my faith continues to be rewarded.

- M

[Psyren]

All the suggestions here are academic and pointless. No one here controls the story being told. However, the spirit of discussion and the appreciation for the story drives us to 26 pages of forum posts.

I don't merely mean speculating on alternatives is pointless, I mean yours specifically are based on things that don't exist in the MCU. Neither SHIELD nor SWORD have any way of disabling her powers short of killing her or rendering her indefinitely comatose, and even those options may not work.

Absolutely...hence the "or something worse". Absent external restraint with a high likelihood of success, what are the remaining options? Clearly you are in favor of the current option. I want Wanda's story to continue, so I guess I am as well, certainly compared to execution. I assume running to a higher power is the next solution we'll see (refer to bottom of the post), and we have every meta-reason to expect that will work out.

"Try to figure it out on her own" and "discover and seek out a higher power" are not mutually exclusive. As Agatha mentioned, there's a whole chapter on her in the Darkhold, so at least seeing what it says is a sensible first step.

Because we know she's a face and not a heel, yes. Stripped of that metaknowledge, she is a reality warper who has shown terrible decision making (as the result of manipulation, perhaps...which still suggests she is subject to manipulation that will lead her to commit some pretty egregious actions), including her now second overt act of massive carnage...and now she's off reading the Naughty Book of Magic MCU Powers.

No "metaknowledge" is needed. She has routinely risked her life to save the planet without expecting compensation. That's good enough to give her the benefit of the doubt that she didn't simply decide to enslave a bunch of people on a whim one day, and that's exactly what Monica is (sensibly) doing.

Don't Poke the Bear makes sense for many. Hope the bully grows out of it. Hope the abuser recognizes what they are doing is wrong and stops.

But is that the reasonable course for "authorities" in world? Just hope the very strangely powerful entity elects to not re-offend, intentionally or otherwise? Maybe we'll get to see what non-cardboard villain authorities try to do later.

What makes a bully a bully is intent to harm, even if they don't know or care about the extent of that harm. A power that acts on its own does not qualify.

At that point didn't they already know that Wanda had some agency in the matter? She had ejected Monica because Monica was meddling, right? Or am I confused on the timeline?

As we plainly saw, ejecting Monica for bringing up a traumatic experience != total conscious control.