The Falcon & Winter Soldier

[M1982]

Exactly, that is what would happen. But with a baton or a taser (swords are sadly not anymore standard-issue side arms), if not something else.

In a great many parts of the world that would absolutely not happen given such circumstances.

Realistically, who else was going to relieve the unstable super soldier of his extremely deadly weapon at that point? The Latvian police?

He himself once he composed himself and reports back to his base for debriefing. Then his superiors would decide how to proceed and what to do with the shield.

You know he wasn't planning to live in that warehouse right?

Right. They needed him to give it up before he left.

Where would he have left for except to go back to his nearest base for debriefing and re-supply? There was no incidcation that he would go rogue and vanish into the "underground" or anything.

It was a horribly botched mission and he would go to explain while probably expecting to get away with his defense and continue to be allowed to be the Captain.

Given his CV up to this very point, why would anyone assume anything different?

[Psyren]

Right. They needed him to give it up before he left. Jumping right to disarm yourself is bad de-escalation. Now, good de-escalation is probably not entertaining television. I'm the furthest thing in the world from an expert on this, but from common sense and a bit of research the absolute last thing you do with someone who is under serious pressure is try to take away either a crutch or a defense. That's just going to end badly.



I disagree intensely actually. This is the place to show Sam does actually understand John, even though they disagree. And even though John has committed a crime. Everything in Sam's training and experience makes him ideally suited for this conversation and this problem. A furious, trapped, violent veteran who has done something terrible, doesn't see a way out and is armed and dangerous? Whether it's John in this warehouse or someone in a house, or a bar, or an alley, this ought to be exactly in the center of what Sam can predict and handle. But even though they win the fight, the conversation is over in less than a minute and ends as badly as it possibly could have.

ETA: Or rather, you are correct that Sam can't be blamed for John's actions. John is responsible for his actions. However, Sam absolutely should be able to deal with this situation infinitely better than the show lets him. That's mostly because otherwise the show would be an hours long slow negotiation and discussion and de-escalation which would just be super bad television. But instead we get Sam, who was gone throughout the Blip is somehow able to correctly understand Karli (up until they're interrupted) but is absolutely clueless about John. I don't like that and, to me, it undercuts the character's competence. Just like the DM losing Zemo undercuts their competence. It's the replacement of other skills with an ability to commit violence and it undercuts them.

We'll have to agree to disagree (intensely) on Sam then. I don't think he did or said anything unreasonable in that situation.

Regarding the DM, Zemo went into a windowless bathroom. One that just happened to have a human-sized manhole in it. That hardly makes them into the Keystone Cops, they just got outsmarted by one of the smartest bad guys in the MCU (and Marvel as a whole for that matter.)

Given his CV up to this very point, why would anyone assume anything different?

They would assume different because they know better than anyone else how the serum works - that it not only amplifies physical strength but also the worst aspects of someone's nature. Even Lemar knew that much about it, though he of course was willing to gloss over his best friend's flaws and clearly untreated PTSD.

As for what he might do - given his attitude and grief (both serum-amplified), trying to hunt down the remaining Flagsmashers seems likely. And woe betide any civilians who got in his face with a camera at that moment. That was a chance Sam and Bucky couldn't take. At least without the shield, he'd be more likely to limp home than turn vigilante.

More to the point, if he was intending to turn himself in, he should have rejoiced at seeing Sam and Bucky coming to find him alone. Especially Bucky, the one human on the planet who knows the most about the serum's effects and could help explain what happened, with Sam as his more trustworthy mouthpiece.

[Cikomyr2]

We'll have to agree to disagree (intensely) on Sam then. I don't think he did or said anything unreasonable in that situation.
.

They are not saying that Sam was unreasonable. They are saying that the way this played out did the Sam Wilson character a disservice. But it's based on a characterization of the character that was introduced in his opening scene and never really touched upon since.

Unless you want to suggest that Sam's friendship with Captain America is based on Sam's therapeutical skill in dealing with veterans full of grief. But that would be a really dark take of their friendship.

[M1982]

They would assume different because they know better than anyone else how the serum works - that it not only amplifies physical strength but also the worst aspects of someone's nature.

Then they were way to lenient with the flagsmashers and especially Karli, all of whom they knew had taken the serum. And killed civilians in cold blood.

More to the point, if he was intending to turn himself in, he should have rejoiced at seeing Sam and Bucky coming to find him alone. Especially Bucky, the one human on the planet who knows the most about the serum's effects and could help explain what happened, with Sam as his more trustworthy mouthpiece.

I am not saying "turn himself in" but return to base for debriefing, new intel and re-supply. Maybe even call in more special forces for backup. I doubt he was expecting that this slip, as public as it was, would cause them to demote him from being Captain America.

[ecarden]

They are not saying that Sam was unreasonable. They are saying that the way this played out did the Sam Wilson character a disservice. But it's based on a characterization of the character that was introduced in his opening scene and never really touched upon since.

Basically. To take it out of the mental and into the physical. If a random person with no medical training sees someone with a knife sticking out of them, they may pull it out as trying to help. That is not unreasonable, but it is a mistake that a trained professional should not make. At least to me, the way Sam acts in that scene is reasonable, but unprofessional. At least if his goal is to prevent a fight. Though there's a reasonable interpretation that this isn't the intent:

"You don't want to do this."
"Yes, we do." ETA: To be clear, that's Bucky's line, not Sam's. And though I've got double quotes, I didn't double check exact wording as I watched the scene a few hours ago, I believe it's accurate but can't be certain.

More generally, the focus on the shield muddies the water here in a way which is unnecessary. The shield is Bucky's (ETA: and John's obviously) obsession, not Sam's and the show loses sight of that here, at least to my mind. I do think that the MCU does all right keeping Sam's skills in frame, but at least to me the scene doesn't work because he seems to be trying to talk him down, only to be incompetent at it.

@Psyren

Regarding the DM, nah, don't buy that for a second. They're here to capture someone who's outmaneuvered them repeatedly in his history. Letting him out of their sight is crazy. And if they're really so skilled they can incapacitate with the pointy end of their spears they should do that to Zemo immediately, even if they want him alive.

[Psyren]

They are not saying that Sam was unreasonable. They are saying that the way this played out did the Sam Wilson character a disservice. But it's based on a characterization of the character that was introduced in his opening scene and never really touched upon since.

Unless you want to suggest that Sam's friendship with Captain America is based on Sam's therapeutical skill in dealing with veterans full of grief. But that would be a really dark take of their friendship.

If it was a reasonable course of action for him to take, then in what way was it a disservice?
If we're judging purely by outcomes/success, well, Steve has failed plenty of times too. That's rather the point of Marvel heroes, they don't always achieve the outcomes they set out to. But to allude to a certain Thunder God, it doesn't make them any less worthy.

[Cikomyr2]

If it was a reasonable course of action for him to take, then in what way was it a disservice?
If we're judging purely by outcomes/success, well, Steve has failed plenty of times too. That's rather the point of Marvel heroes, they don't always achieve the outcomes they set out to. But to allude to a certain Thunder God, it doesn't make them any less worthy.

Because they believe the Sam Wilson character could have acted better than he did. But "could have acted better" is not necessarily being unreasonable.

[Psyren]

Regarding the DM, nah, don't buy that for a second. They're here to capture someone who's outmaneuvered them repeatedly in his history. Letting him out of their sight is crazy. And if they're really so skilled they can incapacitate with the pointy end of their spears they should do that to Zemo immediately, even if they want him alive.

I buy it. Zemo was at the back of the room, furthest from the door, as opposed to Walker who was getting up in their faces, and dipped not far into the scrum. Plenty of reason for a pinning spear on him to not work as well.

Then they were way to lenient with the flagsmashers and especially Karli, all of whom they knew had taken the serum. And killed civilians in cold blood.

Too lenient by... knocking them out? Losing? Should they have been going Punisher instead?

I am not saying "turn himself in" but return to base for debriefing, new intel and re-supply. Maybe even call in more special forces for backup. I doubt he was expecting that this slip, as public as it was, would cause them to demote him from being Captain America.

We have no way of knowing whether he would have turned himself in or not, and when. The fact is that he was dangerous enough that Sam and Bucky had justification to go after him. Not everyone will agree with that, but I don't particularly care.

[Cikomyr2]

I buy it. Zemo was at the back of the room, furthest from the door, as opposed to Walker who was getting up in their faces, and dipped not far into the scrum. Plenty of reason for a pinning spear on him to not work as well.



Too lenient by... knocking them out? Losing? Should they have been going Punisher instead?



We have no way of knowing whether he would have turned himself in or not, and when. The fact is that he was dangerous enough that Sam and Bucky had justification to go after him. Not everyone will agree with that, but I don't particularly care.

Also, the Shield is a badge of office. It'd a matter of Honor.

[ecarden]

I buy it. Zemo was at the back of the room, furthest from the door, as opposed to Walker who was getting up in their faces, and dipped not far into the scrum. Plenty of reason for a pinning spear on him to not work as well.

No points for not being able to get to their target through a fight they started.

Moreover, they don't even try. They're entirely focused on beating down John and Lemar, then Bucky and Sam and don't even make a move or strike towards Zemo. Which given his tendency to slip away whenever he wants, is pretty bad tactics.

Given the accuracy we see out of them and what I understood to be your claim about the skill that was going to let them incapacitate John and Lemar with what really looks like stabs to vital areas, being unable to incapacitate someone across a small room is a fairly damning indictment of their abilities.

My read on it (trying to look at it from an in-character perspective) is that the Dora Milaje aren't War Dogs and aren't used to dealing with outsiders or outside cultures. The moment they were met with anything besides absolute compliance and subservience, they massively overreacted, lost sight of their target and almost killed several people. I mean, that's not an unreasonable read for them given their history and power, but it's not a positive one.

[Sapphire Guard]

ecarden is making very good posts all round.

That's a legal argument, not an ethical argument.

You guys seem really hung up on defending War Criminal John Walker based on a legal technicality.

There's nothing legalistic at all in someone having a right to defend themselves against violent assault.

The Shield is Walker's property, Sam gave it to the government, the government gave it to Walker. It's his. Disarming him doesn't wash, because they let him keep his gun.

Sam and Bucky are offended that Walker used the shield that belonged to Steve to kill someone. That's it, that's their whole motivation.

He's not particularly unstable, he killed one supersoldier in the heat of battle, and like someone said, if they really cared about super serum instability they would treat the flagsmashers very differently.

That's the thing, the shield is, to Steve, just a shield. Bucky, Sam, and the American government all treat it like more than that, which... honestly, is the last thing Steve would want any of them to do.

Probably because they surrendered in a very public space, with a couple known superheros suddenly involved, which the police weren’t expecting in their original mission profile.

Or, they were willing to accept surrenders if possible from the start if they had peacefully surrendered to begin with.

The DM open with a spear to the face that he has to move his head to not be hit by. Even after that, his attitude is 'put down the weapons and let's talk' after pointedly setting down Cap's shield to negotiate. If your response to being touched is violence, you're probably not qualified to be in an elite royal guard.

Really, what's at the root of this is that there's a disconnect between character motivations and plot motivations. The characters have to metagame to make their actions work, which leads to problems when they have to act a certain way to further the plot which doesn't make sense in universe.

[Psyren]

No points for not being able to get to their target through a fight they started.

Because Walker showed every sign of just stepping out of their way there...
And to be totally clear, I'm not giving them "points" either. Yes, they were less effective than they could have been. They're the Kingsguard, not diplomats. I'm saying the cool aspects of the scene outweighed its somewhat contrived premise for me. You might disagree, and that's perfectly okay, we can move on.

The Shield is Walker's property, Sam gave it to the government, the government gave it to Walker. It's his.

This is like saying a F-16 is the property of the pilot chosen to fly it. No, it still belongs to the authority that is granting its use to that pilot.

Sam and Bucky are offended that Walker used the shield that belonged to Steve to kill someone. That's it, that's their whole motivation.

He's not particularly unstable, he killed one supersoldier in the heat of battle, and like someone said, if they really cared about super serum instability they would treat the flagsmashers very differently.

1) "WHY ARE YOU MAKING ME DO THIS?" and "I AM CAPTAIN AMERICA!" and trying to straight up murder Sam even after taking out his wings, isn't "particularly unstable" to you?
2) Differently how? I'm still waiting. S&B try to beat them up, no different than they did with Walker. Usually the FS get away (turns out it's a lot harder to take down a group of supersoldiers than one) so it's pretty moot. Differently how?

[Rater202]

If you wanna get technical about it, Sam didn't give the Shiled to the Government, he gave it to the Smithsonian.

According to the Smithsonian's website, the Smithsonian is legally not part of the Federal Government, though it does enjoy similar immunities from state and local regulations, per Supreme Court rulings.

So there is a very real argument that Walker was in possession of stolen property if the Government didn't full out buy the shield from the Smithsonian... Which I doubt they did, since they act like it's government property all along.

I'm also looking up the legal status of objects donated to the Smithsonian, because when an object is donated to a museum sometimes it's a "permanent" donation and sometimes it's a donation for a set period of time and then it's returned to the previous owner and sometimes there are conditions attached to a donation, though I'm having trouble finding any information on this either way in regards tot he Smithsonian proper.

Depending on the result of my research., there may be a possibility that the Shield was legally Sam's even after donation and the government most definitely stole it.

[Mechalich]

If you wanna get technical about it, Sam didn't give the Shiled to the Government, he gave it to the Smithsonian.

According to the Smithsonian's website, the Smithsonian is legally not part of the Federal Government, though it does enjoy similar immunities from state and local regulations, per Supreme Court rulings.

So there is a very real argument that Walker was in possession of stolen property if the Government didn't full out buy the shield from the Smithsonian... Which I doubt they did, since they act like it's government property all along.

I'm also looking up the legal status of objects donated to the Smithsonian, because when an object is donated to a museum sometimes it's a "permanent" donation and sometimes it's a donation for a set period of time and then it's returned to the previous owner and sometimes there are conditions attached to a donation, though I'm having trouble finding any information on this either way in regards tot he Smithsonian proper.

Depending on the result of my research., there may be a possibility that the Shield was legally Sam's even after donation and the government most definitely stole it.

Museum collections can be 'loaned out' to other museums, civic institutions, or private individuals. This is most commonly done for the purposes of academic research with things like herbarium specimens, insect collections, and fossil, but it can also be done with objects of art or antiquities for display or even for commercial use (ex if the object in question is a car, it might be driven on a movie shoot). So the Smithsonian could have loaned out the shield at the suggestion of Congress. They almost certainly didn't loan it to Walker directly, but instead loaned it to the US Army who then issued it to Walker as military equipment.

Sam almost certainly relinquished legal rights to the Shield when he donated it in the first place (the little bank loan scene shows he's not good at the fine print of legal bargains), so he's actually the one who steals it when it's taken from Walker.

[Ramza00]

Val says it is a legal grey area.

[Psyren]

but instead loaned it to the US Army who then issued it to Walker as military equipment.

Exactly - equipment. Walker doesn't own it either.

[Clertar]

It's the writers' fault for making a realistic, nuanced bad guy instead of a cartoonishly evil one. They're making us have this argument!

[M1982]

Exactly - equipment. Walker doesn't own it either.

And yet soldiers are expected to resist unauthorized persons trying to take their government issued equipment

Because Walker showed every sign of just stepping out of their way there...

He showed no sign of agression either. He had laid down his shield, was trying to talk the situation out and put his hand on one's DM shoulder in a calming gesture.

Even if the DM disagreed with the last one, all out assault was uncalled for as a reaction.

Turn away your shoulder, step back, if both are too much ceeding ground for your liking slap away his hand or push him away and make clear no touching.

But full on violence was not justified.

Maybe it's a cultural thing with some of countries being used to more robust/unfriendly/authorian security and police forces, but if a Western europe cop would have resulted to "with a baton or a taser" he would absolutely lose his job for this.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

The DM open with a spear to the face that he has to move his head to not be hit by. Even after that, his attitude is 'put down the weapons and let's talk' after pointedly setting down Cap's shield to negotiate. If your response to being touched is violence, you're probably not qualified to be in an elite royal guard.

Really, what's at the root of this is that there's a disconnect between character motivations and plot motivations. The characters have to metagame to make their actions work, which leads to problems when they have to act a certain way to further the plot which doesn't make sense in universe.

So much all of this. The writers tried to make the Dora Milaje look awesome and instead made them look incompetent.

[Tyndmyr]

My read on it (trying to look at it from an in-character perspective) is that the Dora Milaje aren't War Dogs and aren't used to dealing with outsiders or outside cultures. The moment they were met with anything besides absolute compliance and subservience, they massively overreacted, lost sight of their target and almost killed several people. I mean, that's not an unreasonable read for them given their history and power, but it's not a positive one.

Same read here. I don't think that was the intent of the scene, but that's how it comes across. I believe it was intended to highlight the competence of the DM in a fight...which in fairness, they did quite well in. But losing sight of your single objective over a minor discourtesy is definitely unprofessional.

They were fighting to win, not to get past and get to Zemo. That's letting your pride get in the way of your objectives.

This is like saying a F-16 is the property of the pilot chosen to fly it. No, it still belongs to the authority that is granting its use to that pilot.

While true, you can't just go and swipe a pilots F-16 because "it doesn't belong to him, it belongs to the government." That wouldn't fly...pretty much anywhere at any time. Now, if Sam and Bucky had been briefed on him going rogue and tasked with retaking the shield, that'd be different, but this is pretty clearly just their decision.

As for the true ownership of the shield, the show itself says that it is...fuzzy. Or some word similar to that. It's a vague handwave, probably as an attempt to address this, but it mostly leaves no side certain of being in the right.

I would agree that leaving him his handgun does not count as disarming him. He's an armed, unstable super soldier. The entire show has been demonstrating that those can make quite a mess without a shield.

[Cikomyr2]

And yet soldiers are expected to resist unauthorized persons trying to take their government issued equipment

This is such a disingenuous argument. I can assure you that what was going in Walker's head at the time wasn't "I have to protect government property against the people who previously owned government property"

Walker clearly stated what's on his mind:
"THIS IS MY SHIELD". It was about himself still being worthy in his own mind.

[M1982]

This is such a disingenuous argument. I can assure you that what was going in Walker's head at the time wasn't "I have to protect government property against the people who previously owned government property"

Walker clearly stated what's on his mind:
"THIS IS MY SHIELD". It was about himself still being worthy in his own mind.

It's the legal situation if you will.

Regardless of Walker's current PoV, Sam and Bucky had no authority to collect the shield.

And if you agree that Walker was still being convinced that he is CA the only expectation where he would go next would be back to his current headquarter to access more ressources that he should have at his call as CA.

If they were worried for whatever reason (yet no being worried about Karlie, who they were OK to just try to talk to again next time if they coukd not convince her to surrender this time. No worry about what such an unstable super soldier does inbetween), there were multiple options each one better than taking the shield by force

[GloatingSwine]

If Sam and Bucky were lawfully empowered to take Walker into custody (and since they face no legal repercussions for anything they do it can be assumed that they are lawfully empowered to act in such an international peacekeeping role), they were also lawfully empowered to disarm him.

[Tyndmyr]

If Sam and Bucky were lawfully empowered to take Walker into custody (and since they face no legal repercussions for anything they do it can be assumed that they are lawfully empowered to act in such an international peacekeeping role), they were also lawfully empowered to disarm him.

Eh, that's dodgy logic. It's pretty clear that Sam and Bucky are explicitly flouting...a lot of laws over the course of this series, and they face no repercussions for any of them.

I also don't see how they could have met with anyone to get such orders. They're basically just doing their own thing.

[Starbuck_II]

If Sam and Bucky were lawfully empowered to take Walker into custody (and since they face no legal repercussions for anything they do it can be assumed that they are lawfully empowered to act in such an international peacekeeping role), they were also lawfully empowered to disarm him.

But since the law has no idea they have possession of the shield (remember when they fired Walker, they weren't informed), then they have no legal power to disarm him.

[Mechalich]

Eh, that's dodgy logic. It's pretty clear that Sam and Bucky are explicitly flouting...a lot of laws over the course of this series, and they face no repercussions for any of them.

I also don't see how they could have met with anyone to get such orders. They're basically just doing their own thing.

There's a central problem here in that the Falcon and the Winter Soldier has a spy thriller plot, but none of the characters are spies. They don't possess any of the rights, privileges, and plausible deniability normally applied to intelligence agents.

Their mission profile would be perfect for James Bond, or Ethan Hunt, or a team of Agents of Shield. Unfortunately, due to a series of decisions long in the MCU's past, SHIELD no longer exists to provide the kind of cover for necessary for superheroes to moonlight as government agents when the plot calls for it. If Sam were a high-level Shield agent suddenly all the problems with legality regarding his actions basically disappear because the presumption is that Nick Fury solves them off-screen.

[ecarden]

There's a central problem here in that the Falcon and the Winter Soldier has a spy thriller plot, but none of the characters are spies. They don't possess any of the rights, privileges, and plausible deniability normally applied to intelligence agents.

Their mission profile would be perfect for James Bond, or Ethan Hunt, or a team of Agents of Shield. Unfortunately, due to a series of decisions long in the MCU's past, SHIELD no longer exists to provide the kind of cover for necessary for superheroes to moonlight as government agents when the plot calls for it. If Sam were a high-level Shield agent suddenly all the problems with legality regarding his actions basically disappear because the presumption is that Nick Fury solves them off-screen.

This is really well put and helped clarify some of my problems. Now, to be fair, by this point this applies just as much to John and Lemar as everyone else. Originally they were operating under the GRC (I think? Hard to tell honestly) which appears to have some authority to operate internationally (no comment on how believable I find that). But then after Zemo breaks out John says something about going rogue? Going dark? I can't remember. But then he and Lemar just...continue to wander around Eastern Europe in the same very visible outfits as before? It's weird.

[Dragonus45]

If it was a reasonable course of action for him to take, then in what way was it a disservice?

Because Sam Wilson in the MCU is a character uniquely suited to both being motivated to find a peaceful solution to a bad situation, exactly like he tried to do with the literal superhuman murderer with a much higher body count just a bit earlier ever, and explicitly trained and capable of doing so as a trained counselor who works with veterans. The show made a huge point of him talking about that kind of thing was in his wheelhouse even. The show let his character down by having him make all the wrong moves there (from the perspective that he would want to find a peaceful solution) and not making much commentary on it. Given the way he gave John the cold shoulder from square one and was generally kind of an ass to him I could see that having been a deliberate writing choice, but again, they never really comment on it other then to have a really odd rushed thing where John is on their side now in the final episode.

[Psyren]

But full on violence was not justified.

Maybe it's a cultural thing with some of countries being used to more robust/unfriendly/authorian security and police forces, but if a Western europe cop would have resulted to "with a baton or a taser" he would absolutely lose his job for this.

Never said it was, and I'm not here to defend the DM's actions. I said the scene as a whole worked for me overall, and for the final time that's where I'm leaving the DM fight.
The DM aren't perfect either.

And yet soldiers are expected to resist unauthorized persons trying to take their government issued equipment

1) Even after he just murdered a civilian with it?
2) Which "authority" present on the scene is equipped to deal with a vibranium-carrying super-soldier?

While true, you can't just go and swipe a pilots F-16 because "it doesn't belong to him, it belongs to the government." That wouldn't fly...pretty much anywhere at any time. Now, if Sam and Bucky had been briefed on him going rogue and tasked with retaking the shield, that'd be different, but this is pretty clearly just their decision.

They swiped it because he used it to murder someone and promptly fled the scene, and they were the only ones with a hope of stopping him without more casualties. We know from empirical evidence (and more importantly, Sam and Bucky know) that a super-soldier carrying that shield can be very difficult for even a swat team to handle, never mind regular law enforcement.

As for the true ownership of the shield, the show itself says that it is...fuzzy. Or some word similar to that. It's a vague handwave, probably as an attempt to address this, but it mostly leaves no side certain of being in the right.

I never said Sam and Bucky are totally or certainly in the right.

I would agree that leaving him his handgun does not count as disarming him. He's an armed, unstable super soldier. The entire show has been demonstrating that those can make quite a mess without a shield.

1) The gun is far more likely to be actually his than the shield.
2) Technically they left it on the ground somewhere. It slid out of camera, which by movie logic means it might as well have fallen into a black hole for all we know (or I care).
3) Without the shield and with a broken arm, Walker is a lot more likely to just go turn himself in - which he did.

[Cikomyr2]

It's the legal situation if you will.

Regardless of Walker's current PoV, Sam and Bucky had no authority to collect the shield.

And if you agree that Walker was still being convinced that he is CA the only expectation where he would go next would be back to his current headquarter to access more ressources that he should have at his call as CA.

If they were worried for whatever reason (yet no being worried about Karlie, who they were OK to just try to talk to again next time if they coukd not convince her to surrender this time. No worry about what such an unstable super soldier does inbetween), there were multiple options each one better than taking the shield by force

Except we don't care about the finer points of legality. And even if we did, John Walker just committed a war crime by murdering a surrendering opponent in plain daylight.

You guys seem to have a fuzzy concept of morality here. What's legal is not necessary right. What's illegal is not necessary immoral.

It was wrong for Walker to keep that shield and I think nobody knew that more than Walker. But he let his own sense of self importance and self-righteousness go to his head.

Guys, he can't even admit that the guy he killed wasn't the one who killed his buddy. He is either outright delusional, or he is in constant self-rationalization mode.