The Robotech wars finally End

[pendell]

Seen on sunrise read, and confirmed on other outlets.

Tokyo based BIGWEST Co. LTD. and Los Angeles based Harmony Gold U.S.A. announced an agreement regarding the worldwide rights for the legendary Macross and Robotech franchises. This expansive agreement signed by both companies on March 1, 2021, ends two decades of disagreements and will allow Big West and Harmony Gold to chart a new path that will unlock the great potential of both the Macross and Robotech franchises worldwide.

The landmark agreement immediately permits worldwide distribution of most of the Macross films and television sequels worldwide, and also confirms that Big West will not oppose the Japanese release of an anticipated upcoming live-action Robotech film. The agreement also recognizes Harmony Gold’s longstanding exclusive license with Tatsunoko for the use of the 41 Macross characters and mecha in the Robotech television series and related merchandise throughout the world excluding Japan.

Moving forward, both parties will cooperate on distribution regarding future Macross and Robotech projects for the benefit of both franchises.”

Back in the '80s, Macross was a mind-bendingly popular space robot anime in Japan, and it hasn't slowed down much in the years since then. But very little of it has been seen in North America, because the rights were sold to Harmony Gold. Harmony Gold took the show but couldn't show it as-is because the show was only 36 episodes, and to syndicate in America you needed at least 70 or so. So to make up the number they bought the rights to two other short anime along the same theme: Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross, and Genesis Climber Mospoeda. They shot some additional footage, some compilation episodes, and did a lot of redubbing to create a single unified story from the three original anime.

It was a hit! It was my real intro to anime as a child, after "Battle of the Planets", a similarly butchered American version of Gatchaman.

But...

the Macross universe moved on, generating sequels and video games and who knows what else, none of it seen outside Japan because Harmony Gold still had the redistribution rights, and HG sat on them to protect their own work in Robotech.

That's the way things stood for two decades, but at last common sense has prevailed. Harmony Gold will allow all the rest of Macross beyond the characters they've already shown to be released in North America, while they will continue to retain the rights to that narrow strip shown in Robotech itself. What it means for consumers is that we finally get access to a lot of previously blocked material, and there is high expectation it will be good.

I'm looking forward to it!

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Kitten Champion]

When I heard whole spiel about Robotech and Harmony Gold I was kinda shocked that they were so insistent about holding onto the licensing rights when, well, they're largely a real estate company now based on everything I've heard and read. They aren't involved in any other aspects of animation or the entertainment industry in general, besides this one very specific thing they've barely touched in over a decade that is.

You'd think - since they've pivoted their business as a whole - that they'd just sell the rights to whoever and go on with their lives, or something like that.

It's definitely good news, at least for those who want to legally watch the franchise outside of Japan... about half of which is actually pretty good.

[J-H]

Never watched it, but I did get most of the 12 books from a used book store when I was a kid or teenager. Is that why there were 3 such distinct arcs (Zentraedi/lost in space Macross, Robotech Masters/Defending earth, Invid/Retaking earth after it was lost)?

[Dire_Flumph]

Never watched it, but I did get most of the 12 books from a used book store when I was a kid or teenager. Is that why there were 3 such distinct arcs (Zentraedi/lost in space Macross, Robotech Masters/Defending earth, Invid/Retaking earth after it was lost)?

Yes, that's it exactly. Oddly when I first watched them at age 10 I didn't really notice the seams. Robotech and Star Blazers introduced me to long form television at the time which absolutely blew my mind as a kid that a story would continue between episodes like that.

[The Glyphstone]

I wonder if this will have any implications for Battletech and the Unseen 'mech designs. It's mostly moot because Catalyst retconned all the Unseen with "new" appearances, but maybe not?

[Willie the Duck]

When I heard whole spiel about Robotech and Harmony Gold I was kinda shocked that they were so insistent about holding onto the licensing rights when, well, they're largely a real estate company now based on everything I've heard and read. They aren't involved in any other aspects of animation or the entertainment industry in general, besides this one very specific thing they've barely touched in over a decade that is.

You'd think - since they've pivoted their business as a whole - that they'd just sell the rights to whoever and go on with their lives, or something like that.

My impression is that, because HG hadn't actually done anything particularly profitable with the rights in so long (and seemed systematically unprepared to do so any time in the future), it would have been hard to get a large payout for selling them, yet at the same time there was this notion that they were valuable (so they didn't want to sell them for cheap). A little like your uncle dying and leaving you an out-of-service copper mine somewhere -- you know it's worth something, but you don't personally know how to get money out of it, but because of that people are offering you a fraction of what you think the things is actually worth...

I wonder if this will have any implications for Battletech and the Unseen 'mech designs. It's mostly moot because Catalyst retconned all the Unseen with "new" appearances, but maybe not?

I believe that issue had already been resolved somehow, although I don't have a link to back that up.

[truemane]

This is really good news!

Robotech happened to me in exactly the right at exactly the right time. It came on at the perfect time to watch it after school ended. I was just old enough to appreciate how much more complex and nuanced and grown-up it was compared to say, M.A.S.K. And yet I was still young enough to love it unironically and uncritically in that way we do at that age when the media we consume forms our perspectives rather than reflects them.

And it was on for a year or so and then the Palladium Robotech RPG books started showing up in my small town's one hobby store. We'd already been playing D&D for a couple of years, so it was an easy transition over. And then, once we were into Palladium, we slid through the whole weird gonzo world of Palladium RPG's, in all their glory and their shame.

Robotech forms a very large part of my childhood. I found the complete collection on VHS in a thrift somewhere and I think I still have them. For a lot of years (before the internet) when Robotech just couldn't be found or seen anywhere, they were among my most prized possessions.

Man. Now I want to run an old school Invid Invasion game.

[pendell]

Never watched it, but I did get most of the 12 books from a used book store when I was a kid or teenager. Is that why there were 3 such distinct arcs (Zentraedi/lost in space Macross, Robotech Masters/Defending earth, Invid/Retaking earth after it was lost)?

Got it in one. Those three separate arcs were originally entirely separate anime. For example, Dana Stirling was originally no relation to Max or Miriya Stirling at all, and the events of Southern Cross took place on a colony world ("Gloire", I believe it was originally named?) , not Earth. And the reason you never see 'Admiral Hunter' or the SDF-1 in the Invid story line is because he wasn't in the Mospaeda anime, and HG apparently decided it wasn't worth the budget to cobble him in.

They later did create a successor series along this line -- Sentinels -- which portrayed an Invid invasion of the Robotech Master's Homeworld, Tirol. They did show characters and mecha in all three anime together in the pilot episode, including an older (but still good-looking) Rick Hunter and Lisa Hunter (nee Hayes) as they led a counter-offensive against the invid in space, while the events of Southern Cross and Mospaeda played out on earth.

They made a series of novels out of it (https://www.amazon.com/Sentinels-Rob.../dp/0345389018) and they made a pilot movie for the new series, but it was never green-lit. Don't know if that was a continuing copyright dispute, or simply that there was too little return for the money they'd have to shell out. The pilot episode is still available on youtube, though I'm not sure I can link it here, due to copyright.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[GloatingSwine]

They made a series of novels out of it (https://www.amazon.com/Sentinels-Rob.../dp/0345389018) and they made a pilot movie for the new series, but it was never green-lit. Don't know if that was a continuing copyright dispute, or simply that there was too little return for the money they'd have to shell out. The pilot episode is still available on youtube, though I'm not sure I can link it here, due to copyright.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Part of the copyright dispute was that Harmony Gold didn't have a license to create derivative works based on the Macross characters, because Tatsunoko only originally had the international distribution rights to the original animation. Big West were the ones who maintained the rights to the characters and designs and toy licensing (though they also redesigned everything for Macross: Do You Remember Love and used the new designs for all works going forwards).

So Harmony Gold could only make new Robotech content using the Mospeada and Southern Cross parts (which were both Tatsunoko shows). Which was something of a hindrance because the Macross bit is the bit everyone remembers.

[J-H]

I wonder if this will have any implications for Battletech and the Unseen 'mech designs. It's mostly moot because Catalyst retconned all the Unseen with "new" appearances, but maybe not?

PGI, the company behind MechWarrior Online and MW5, went to bat and spent the money on lawyers to get Harmony Gold to go away for all of BattleTech. I don't recall the exact details of the settlement, but it was a multi-year expensive litigation.

Russ (PGI Owner) is a terrible manager and salesman for his games, MW5 looked distinctly mediocre, and MWO is in maintenance mode with bad communication... but I'm still glad I supported PGI by buying a good amount of stuff from them for MW5 solely for the fact that they did what nobody else had done in 30 years and successfully took on Harmony Gold.

[HandofShadows]

PGI, the company behind MechWarrior Online and MW5, went to bat and spent the money on lawyers to get Harmony Gold to go away for all of BattleTech. I don't recall the exact details of the settlement, but it was a multi-year expensive litigation.

Russ (PGI Owner) is a terrible manager and salesman for his games, MW5 looked distinctly mediocre, and MWO is in maintenance mode with bad communication... but I'm still glad I supported PGI by buying a good amount of stuff from them for MW5 solely for the fact that they did what nobody else had done in 30 years and successfully took on Harmony Gold.

It's amazing how many half truths and flat out utterly incorrect stories have built up this situation. (Mostly created by so called BattleTech fans who have no trouble telling flat out lies) PGI and HG made an out of court agreement. The PNP Battletech game had been out of the proceedings for a couple of months at that time. Probably because HG wasn't really interested in them and that HG had *already* gotten a favorable out of court agreement with FASA back in the 1990's.

[J-H]

Yeah, it was a couple of years ago. I remember it dragged on for a while with a bunch of legal filings that most people couldn't see because they were behind some kind of paywall.
End of the day, we got the Archer, Rifleman, etc. back with no worries about future issues.

[Tyrant]

It's amazing how many half truths and flat out utterly incorrect stories have built up this situation. (Mostly created by so called BattleTech fans who have no trouble telling flat out lies) PGI and HG made an out of court agreement. The PNP Battletech game had been out of the proceedings for a couple of months at that time. Probably because HG wasn't really interested in them and that HG had *already* gotten a favorable out of court agreement with FASA back in the 1990's.

This filing indicates that the suit was dismissed with prejudice (can't be brought again) and it includes InMediaRes, parent company of Catalyst, current producer of Battletech tabletop material. I don't see the signed version and I'm done looking through internet history to find it. But, it was after this that PGI made their announcement and Catalyst has proceeded as if they were in the clear as well so I assume it was actually signed. PGI either had a joint defense deal with InMediaRes (or possibly Topps since they actually own the license), or used their position (which appeared to be the superior position leading up to this) to also get coverage for the tabletop side of things.

[Splinterverse]

I am so thankful the battles have ended. Robotech is one of the best shows out there. I can't wait to see (hopefully) officially licensed releases for the stuff we don't already have (legal) access to here in the U.S.

[pendell]

I am so thankful the battles have ended. Robotech is one of the best shows out there. I can't wait to see (hopefully) officially licensed releases for the stuff we don't already have (legal) access to here in the U.S.

Some would argue that Macross is one of the best shows out there. Robotech is an amalgamation of three shows, but for some reason the other two (Southern Cross, Mospaeda) never had any traction. I know for my part I enjoyed watching Rick, Lisa, and Minmei go through their relationships together. I thought Roy Fokker was cool, and his relationship with Claudia amazing. Especially, this being the 80s, inter-racial marriages or courtships weren't exactly common on TV, though still more so than in the 60s. Especially in an afternoon kid's show.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[HandofShadows]

This filing indicates that the suit was dismissed with prejudice (can't be brought again) and it includes InMediaRes, parent company of Catalyst, current producer of Battletech tabletop material. I don't see the signed version and I'm done looking through internet history to find it. But, it was after this that PGI made their announcement and Catalyst has proceeded as if they were in the clear as well so I assume it was actually signed. PGI either had a joint defense deal with InMediaRes (or possibly Topps since they actually own the license), or used their position (which appeared to be the superior position leading up to this) to also get coverage for the tabletop side of things.

{Scrubbed}

The reason you can't find a signed versions is because one does not exist. That is just one of probably many proposals that were rejected {Scrubbed}

[Tyrant]

{Scrubbed}

The reason you can't find a signed versions is because one does not exist. That is just one of probably many proposals that were rejected {Scrubbed}

{Scrubbed}

I take it you dispute that resolution? The lawsuit was resolved, that's fairly clear to anyone who looks. PGI and Catalyst appear to have gone on with their plans. Or I assume PGI did, I'm more interested in the tabletop side. Catalyst doesn't appear to have lost in any way, so I believe the resolution I posted, or something very close to it, is what happened. So I'm not sure which parts you dispute and why you feel the need to say Battletech players are liars.

[monomer]

{Scrubbed}

I take it you dispute that resolution? The lawsuit was resolved, that's fairly clear to anyone who looks. PGI and Catalyst appear to have gone on with their plans. Or I assume PGI did, I'm more interested in the tabletop side. Catalyst doesn't appear to have lost in any way, so I believe the resolution I posted, or something very close to it, is what happened. So I'm not sure which parts you dispute and why you feel the need to say Battletech players are liars.

Not sure why there is such vehement agreement going on here. HG and PGI reached a settlement (Order from June 7, 2018) at which time HG withdrew their claims without prejudice, since they wanted the ability to reopen the claim if things fell through. Once everything in the settlement was finalized and signed, the case was dismissed with prejudice (Order from June 20, 2018).

[Tyrant]

Not sure why there is such vehement agreement going on here. HG and PGI reached a settlement (Order from June 7, 2018) at which time HG withdrew their claims without prejudice, since they wanted the ability to reopen the claim if things fell through. Once everything in the settlement was finalized and signed, the case was dismissed with prejudice (Order from June 20, 2018).

I'm honestly not sure what he is saying is false, or what I am potentially getting wrong. I paid close attention to the situation via assorted Battletech message boards at the time. I know the case is over and was dismissed with prejudice, so I'm not sure what he is contesting.

[Trafalgar]

Some would argue that Macross is one of the best shows out there. Robotech is an amalgamation of three shows, but for some reason the other two (Southern Cross, Mospaeda) never had any traction. I know for my part I enjoyed watching Rick, Lisa, and Minmei go through their relationships together. I thought Roy Fokker was cool, and his relationship with Claudia amazing. Especially, this being the 80s, inter-racial marriages or courtships weren't exactly common on TV, though still more so than in the 60s. Especially in an afternoon kid's show.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

The episode with Roy Fokker's death has always stood out in my mind as a very adult portrayal of warfor a kids show. It was completely different than American cartoon shows of the time that treated war as a game where no one gets hurt.

[SunsetWaraxe]

Looking forward to watching the new dubs for all of these shows.

[GloatingSwine]

Looking forward to watching the new dubs for all of these shows.

TBH I think many of them are unlikely to have dubs. The time has passed for most of them that don't already have one. If anything expect official subbed releases on streaming services for, I would say most likely, Macross Zero, Frontier, and Delta. (SDF Macross and Macross Plus already have passable dubbed and subbed releases. The SDF Macross dub even has the original Japanese voice actress for Lynn Minmay performing the character in English)

Seven is unlikely to show up because it is a: too expensive and b: too weird. It's too expensive because the music is held under a separate license and the real pretend band that played the pretend pretend band in the show stayed super popular for ages. And since the show is about a band you pretty much can't do it without the music. It's too weird because the plot is "psychic space vampires are defeated by the power of rock and roll". (If that sounds like your jam, be warned it takes about 15 episodes before it starts getting any good).

[brionl]

The episode with Roy Fokker's death has always stood out in my mind as a very adult portrayal of warfor a kids show. It was completely different than American cartoon shows of the time that treated war as a game where no one gets hurt.

The episode with Roy Fokker's death has always stood out to me as an example of "what a moron!" If you're injured, you don't go and die on your girlfriend's couch, you go see the medic.

[truemane]

Some would argue that Macross is one of the best shows out there. Robotech is an amalgamation of three shows, but for some reason the other two (Southern Cross, Mospaeda) never had any traction. I know for my part I enjoyed watching Rick, Lisa, and Minmei go through their relationships together. I thought Roy Fokker was cool, and his relationship with Claudia amazing. Especially, this being the 80s, inter-racial marriages or courtships weren't exactly common on TV, though still more so than in the 60s. Especially in an afternoon kid's show.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

I remember someone saying that Macross was the first show to really get the Holy Trifecta of giant robots, tense-interpersonal relationships, and catchy pop songs just right. And I think there's something to that. It does so many things so well without ever looking like it's trying very hard. The sense of community in Macross City pulling together. The slow, careful shift of the Zentradi from alien invaders to sympathetic allies. The very direct throughline of the plot (which, shorn of its tangents and wrinkles is basically: "heroes brave a long journey home while bad guys try to stop them").

I always loved Invid Invasion. It was my favourite of the three settings, the RPG I played most, the one that had the strongest hold on my imagination, the one I always wanted to write my own stories about (and the Cyclones were, and are still, my favourite mecha), but all the same, Macross is the one that really echoes.

[pendell]

The episode with Roy Fokker's death has always stood out to me as an example of "what a moron!" If you're injured, you don't go and die on your girlfriend's couch, you go see the medic.

I think what we're supposed to take from this is that Roy knew he was dead and would rather die at home with the woman he loved than in a hospital. He wanted to see her one more time.

What's unbelievable is that he made it home and has this entire scene where he's bleeding to death and no one notices. When I was in college I rode a bicycle from off-campus housing to class, and one day took a hard fall. I got back on and came into class anyway. My injuries were far less severe but they were noticeable immediately.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[GloatingSwine]

I remember someone saying that Macross was the first show to really get the Holy Trifecta of giant robots, tense-interpersonal relationships, and catchy pop songs just right. And I think there's something to that. It does so many things so well without ever looking like it's trying very hard. The sense of community in Macross City pulling together. The slow, careful shift of the Zentradi from alien invaders to sympathetic allies. The very direct throughline of the plot (which, shorn of its tangents and wrinkles is basically: "heroes brave a long journey home while bad guys try to stop them").

It also arrived at just the right time for being able to turn it into merch. Toy manufacturing was good enough to produce a really good transformable VF-1S toy, which was a big hit (so big in its first production run that the company that made it wildly overestimated how many they should make in the second run and so got bought out by Takara).

[pendell]

Indeed, and not just for Macross. Some of the early transformers Jetfire toys were VF-1S, repurposed. I remember seeing them on sale and confirmed in the article.

Generation 1 Jetfire (1985)
The first two years of Transformers toys were figures taken from older Japanese toylines, primarily Takara's Diaclone and Microman lines. 1985, however, saw several figures reused from lines created by Takatoku Toys, of which Jetfire was one — that of the VF-1S Super Valkyrie Fighter from the Macross series. This figure was one of the most articulated of the early Transformer toys, featuring fully poseable shoulder, hip, elbow and knee joints, and even poseable sacroiliac joints.[8] The instruction manual for the toy even included the GERWALK mode designed for the Macross version of the toy, which was used in that animated series, and seen briefly in the Transformers season 2 episode "The Day of the Machines".

Apparently Jetfire was later redesigned, but I firmly remember the original toy being identical to the VF-1, and it appears my memory is not mistaken on this point.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[GloatingSwine]

Jetfire was redesigned in the cartoon, but the only change in the toy was that the nose was made less sharp and it didn’t have all the small detachable missiles.

It kind of isn’t just Jetfire though. Many of the early range of Diaclone car robots and the JetRobo which made up part of G1 Transformers (basically all the 1:60 scale vehicles that were the first set of Autobots plus the Seekers) were also designed by Shoji Kawamori and Kazutaka Miyatake.

JetRobo was even a specific response to the popularity of the VF-1S. Takara rehired the pair to do them a transforming jet of their own. (Kawamori also returned again to update the design for the Transformers Masterpiece Starscream)

[Trafalgar]

The episode with Roy Fokker's death has always stood out to me as an example of "what a moron!" If you're injured, you don't go and die on your girlfriend's couch, you go see the medic.

A friend I work with was hit buy a car while crossing a street on his morning commute. It was a hit and run. He got up and continued walking and started work like nothing happened. We all noticed he was acting funny. After 2 or 3 hours, he finally told us what happened. We called an ambulance and the doctors discovered he had a skull fracture.

This is one instance where the censored American version makes more sense. Growing up, I always thought it was some sort of internal bleed because I didn't see any blood on Roy Fokker's uniform. You only see the three wounds in the original Japanese Macross version.

[Lord Torath]

Indeed, and not just for Macross. Some of the early transformers Jetfire toys were VF-1S, repurposed. I remember seeing them on sale and confirmed in the article. Apparently Jetfire was later redesigned, but I firmly remember the original toy being identical to the VF-1, and it appears my memory is not mistaken on this point.

I can confirm. I got Jetfire primarily because it was a Robotech VF-1S. Favorite transformer ever!

For me, Robotech came on at 8:00 am, and I left for school at 8:30. That show could bring me to tears. The Macross Saga was my favorite, then the Invid, and the Southern Cross was my least favorite of the three.

Then I tried to show them to my wife when they were on Netflix. It's hard to express how annoying I find the narrator now. I love the story, but I have a hard time actually watching it sometimes.