New UA: Draconic Options

[clash]

Man the new Kobold looks fun to play. And by fun to play, I mean Draconic Roar looks busted.

Compare

Draconic Roar: As a bonus action you let out a draconic roar at your enemies within 10 feet of you. Until the end of your next turn, you and your allies have advantage on attack rolls against any of those enemies who could hear the roar. You can use this trait a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.

with

Fighting Spirit: Starting at 3rd level, your intensity in battle can shield you and help you strike true. As a bonus action on your turn, you can give yourself advantage on all weapon attack rolls until the end of the current turn. When you do so, you also gain 5 temporary hit points. The number of hit points increases when you reach certain levels in this class, increasing to 10 at 10th level and 15 at 15th level.

You can use this feature three times. You regain all expended uses of it when you finish a long rest.

So yeah. It's a racial feature that's arguably much better than a decent Fighter subclass's premier feature. And it has a comparable number of uses from level 1-20. I hope it stays though because it would be hella fun to play, not only for the Kobold but also for the whole party that gets to ride on that sweet unconditional advantage.

You missed outlining the fact that fighting spirit is only weapon attacks and draconic roar is all attack rolls including spell attacks.

[Sepaulchre]

Ha, I actually unhighlighted that because I thought it would be too much! But yeah, it’s wild. But it’s UA for a reason I guess.

[MaxWilson]

Being able to pick Cure Wounds up as a feat and choose your own casting stat is a big change from those examples though. V. Human and Custom Lineage both give the opportunity for a Wizard to get Int based Cure Wounds (backed by Arcane Recovery) without any progression delaying dips.

At the risk of repeating myself, I see your point but I see Cure Wounds showing up already as a fringe benefit so it doesn't strike me as power creep. There are pure class builds like the Iron Wizard who prioritize wizard spell progression, but they tend to be starved for ASIs already and are IMO unlikely to want to invest an ASI in Cure Wounds, compared to all the other goodies available via ASIs like better initiative and blindsight (I'm assuming that anyone who plays with Post-Tasha's UA probably also plays with Tasha's feats). Not to mention the fact that those playing with Tasha's racial options can Cure Wounds AS A WIZARD SPELL (eligible for Spell Mastery) via Mark of Healing without even compromising their Int +2 bonus, plus an effective +1 to concentration saves from halfling Luck.

Bottom Line: Cure Wounds plus an antisynergistic, limited use AC boost does not seem a particularly strong feat.

[Gyor]

Im wondering if they axed the Draconic Monk in favor of these racial options. If they did, that’s a shame. Really like that Monk. Hope they didn’t.

———

On to the broader topic:

Had a feeling a UA was on the way. Didn’t know the topic but it felt like we were due.

Like the Kobold.

If you look back at the PHB, there’s numerous gray side text boxes. Mentions of the Death Domain, Oathbreaker Paladin, Deurgar.... All things we have seen. And one more:

Draconian. Which we have never gotten.

Curious if this is their answer, after all these years, or if there’s another race that’s dedicated to Draconian which we have not seen yet.

We still don't have Draconians, their mechanics do not resemble Draconians at all, 4e actually did playable Draconian variants of Dragonborn, even updating expectation for Tasha's 5e, these new Dragonborn don't resemble Draconians at all in race features or lore. These aren't corrupted Metallic Dragons, these are Dragonborn who are close to a particular type of Dragon breed in a very generalized way.

And Dragonlance doesn't have Gem Dragons at all. And Dragonlance doesn't have a Chromatic equivalent to Draconians (to my knowledge).

[Thunderous Mojo]

The gem dragons were the psionic dragons iirc.

If we start up Mr. Peabody's Wayback machine, Gem Dragons, as detailed in The Dragon....( similar to Facebook, the "The" was later dropped), were conceived of as the dragons with a neutral alignment.

They were only 50% likely to have psionics, in The Dragon article, and also had a good chance of being spellcasting dragons with access to M/U, Clerical, and Druid spells.

(it is almost inconceivable I remember this and the Ed Greenwood article about Magic Gates that appeared in the same issue of The Dragon...freaking oddities of memory 🤷🏻)

Essentially they came about because after 6 years had passed from AD&D being first published, players had killed everything in the Monster Manual, twice.

In a way Korvin Starmast is directly responsible for Gem Dragons😉🃏

[Shepsquared]

Speaking of gem dragons, I would've sworn that Sardior was Tiamat & Bahamut's brother, not their son. Which setting is this lore for anyway?

[JadedDM]

And Dragonlance doesn't have Gem Dragons at all. And Dragonlance doesn't have a Chromatic equivalent to Draconians (to my knowledge).

There are actually two Chromatic equivalents to Draconians in Dragonlance.

Noble Draconians (born from corrupted chromatic dragon eggs, but they turned out Good instead of Evil) and Dragonspawn (created by combining a human with a draconian by a Dragon Overlord).

However, I'd agree that none of these new dragonborn don't really resemble draconians, noble draconians or dragonspawn.

[Luccan]

I don't know if new rules for Dragonborn rules out Dragonlance or not. Draconians don't have to be a PC, but even then it's not like WotC is afraid to change significant portions of a setting's history and lore in order to accommodate the New Thing We're Doing. Both Tieflings and Dragonborn themselves were changed quite a bit for 4e and haven't really gone back. They'd probably need an in-universe explanation in this case since the draw of the setting is largely the books, but I'm not sure the lack of explicit Draconian PC rules is a sure sign of anything.

[Hael]

This is a fun UA. My biggest issue is with the feats:

1) Gift of the chromatic dragon is okish, but just barely so for a full feat. First of all the damage and duration of the damage rider are meh. It clogs up a bonus action for a d4 (compare this to say getting hex from a feat). The resistance is good though. However scaling with prof really makes this only worthwhile in the tier3-4 range, so you're looking at a feat that most people will never see. I would prefer if this was ramped up in power/duration and the draconic element was a prerequisite (like elven accuracy), and frankly it probably needs a third rider to make this worth a full feat.

2) Gift of the metallic dragon is just bad. Bad enough that I wouldn't want it even if it was a half-feat. Healing (with few exceptions) is pretty underpowered in 5e, and that's with features that enhance its use.. The classes for which this would be wanted, already have access to healing, so I just don't see it. The reaction is very mediocre with a fair amount of chance to not be used at all. Scratch this feat, I don't think its salvageable as written.

3) Gift of the Gem dragon. I was trying to decide if it would be OP if the reaction was simply unlimited usage. And I decided that yes, but just barely, and only b/c its a half-feat, and i'm not even sure if that's true. This feat doesn't scale well at all, will be resisted by a great number of high level monsters for which the damage is barely passable, when you need it the most and is only triggered once you've already taken damage. Fixing this would likely require putting a scaling element (2d8 + 1/2 your class lvl for instance), and upping the amount of times it could be used.

[TyGuy]

I would play the old kobold over this one and this new chromatic dragonborn over the old one. But I'd ask for my fire breath to be a 15' cone again.

[Dork_Forge]

To be fair, Artificer Initiate already exists in Tasha's and gives you Cure Wounds as an Int spell plus Guidance instead of the weird shielding thing. (It has its own clunkiness involving M components, but for pure power in the Wizard context I don't see how the draconic version is any more egregious.)

An example already existing doesn't justify more instances being created, the Artificer feat is already something I'm not fond of since their spell list is such a mash of Arcane and Divine to begin with.

Besides that though it opens up more options, someone might not allow Artificers (and related things) in a game they want to run for theme reasons, but that game could be dragon heavy *insert new sourcebook here* or the player might just want more support abiltiies.

At the risk of repeating myself, I see your point but I see Cure Wounds showing up already as a fringe benefit so it doesn't strike me as power creep. There are pure class builds like the Iron Wizard who prioritize wizard spell progression, but they tend to be starved for ASIs already and are IMO unlikely to want to invest an ASI in Cure Wounds, compared to all the other goodies available via ASIs like better initiative and blindsight (I'm assuming that anyone who plays with Post-Tasha's UA probably also plays with Tasha's feats). Not to mention the fact that those playing with Tasha's racial options can Cure Wounds AS A WIZARD SPELL (eligible for Spell Mastery) via Mark of Healing without even compromising their Int +2 bonus, plus an effective +1 to concentration saves from halfling Luck.

Bottom Line: Cure Wounds plus an antisynergistic, limited use AC boost does not seem a particularly strong feat.

I just want to reiterate that my stance is 'this is annoying and unneeded creep/toe stepping' not 'this will bust the game wide open.' That said:

-Cure Wounds when picked up as a Fringe Benefit is often using a tertiary stat (like the Cleric dip on a Wizard), greatly reducing the value of the spell.

-Iron Wizard is a terrible example, you know who else prioritises straight Wizard progression? People just playing Wizards without trying to achieve some niche benefit. That build in particular has both the 4th and 8th ASI dedicated (which imo, doesn't prioritise Wizard effectiveness in the least), it obviously won't try and fit a feat like this in. The examples I gave were expicitly V. Human and Custom Lineage because of how easy and early they work feats into builds.

-Mark of Healing assumes that all books are equally in play, Eberron races are one of the more stand out choices to use in non-Eberron games and can easily be rejected based on not fitting in. That's not even counting yes but allowance, like in my games Dragonmarks don't add spells to lists at all. Even if you grab it as a spell from the mark, it's still not as good since the free casting remains tied to Wisdom regardless what the optional rule from Tasha's says. (Side note, I'm not considering Spell Mastery here, because it's a mid Tier 4 feature that will be irrelevant to most people)


Side note on the antisynergy of the AC bump:

I'm not seeing why it's antisynergistic at all? I mean this would only be really bad in a game where the DM rolls behind the screen and just tells you you're hit. Any table that rolls in the open (common on VTT ime) will see if they're hit by just one.

If an attack hits your AC or the AC of an ally, you can burn this to guaranteed make it miss, saving yourself a 1st level slot if you're a Shield caster (and navigating around enemy casters if they're in play), and still having a pretty good shot of negating it if it's a hit by 2.

I see that feat in particular going very nicely on something like a Banneret, or a Paladin (freeing up a slot and prepared spell).

[ProsecutorGodot]

And would it kill them to add spells to clerics? I haven't seen a new cleric spell since Xanathar's.

Did you skip Tasha's? It's got two of them, Summon Celestial being pretty powerful (these new "summon" spells are pretty cool all around). Spirit Shroud is much worse for Cleric than the other classes that can choose it though.

On topic - I'm more or less okay with the up and down skew as far as power level goes here, some options are a bit on the weaker side and some obviously a bit on the stronger side. I think Draconic Transformation is the only stand out spell here that I feel is so far on the weak side for a 7th level spell that it's going to give Mordenkainen's Sword company.

[Chaosmancer]

Posting this before I read the thread to date

Wow, there is a lot to talk about.

Dragonborn:

This is just a raw improvement on every level. The old dragonborn (in the PHB) had a 2d6, action, breath weapon and resistance. And they were limited to the five options. Now, there are 10 options and more resistance to go around, plus the damage is improved. I like the change to making them an attack action, opens up a lot of options and makes this useful for the classic melee Dragonborn builds.

One thing I would change for certain, is I would make the cone or the line an option. Pick when you get the race, and you stick with it. I also... man I don't like Brass being on the list. This is a minor minor quibble, but it is playing second fiddle to gold and they are identical. That bugs me.

Another thing I'm not sold on, I'm not sure about prof per day. I might prefer something like 3 per short rest. I want this to feel like a tool they can pull out with some reliability. That might be too powerful, but I want them to feel like using their breath is a go to choice.

Then each of them gets 1 new ability (with Gem getting two)

Chromatics get to use an action to be immune for 10 minutes, and I love this. This is bad-assery that I want, to be able to use this to just stroll into a volcanic heart or something similar immune to the elemental forces. That screams dragon. 1/day feels appropriate too.

Metallics.... get jipped I think. They get a 1/day second breath. Not that they can't be potentially powerful options. Incapacitated can buy a round of safety from whatever failed, and the push back is nice since it is far enough away to be an escape button, but.... I don't know. It may grow on me. But it feels like it is very situationally useful and is going to get saved for "emergencies".

Gems get two. 30 ft telepathy (one-way, but I'm going to ignore that just like I do for GOOlocks) and 1 minute of flight. Both solid abilities, nothing super interesting though. The flavor is insane for the Wings, I love that to death.


Kobolds

This is kind of not what I expected. One thing I sort of like is how they talk about the roaring. "The roar of a kobold can express a range of emotion: anger, resolve, elation, fear, and more. " Roaring in fear? That's not something I've heard a lot. I might not make it a roar, because that feels like it should be a deeper sound, but it is interesting.

But, mechanics are more important here, and they are actually really really solid.

Sunlight sensitivity is gone, and you get a choice of one of three perks. 1) You have advantage against fear. Now, I know a lot of people don't like this because Kobold = Coward to them, but I've never liked Kobolds as cowards. And, even if they are cowards, this kind of fits still. Cowards are used to fear, it is a familiar thing to them, and so it would make sense that they can still operate in spite of fear. Remember, the Frightened Condition isn't just "you are sacred" it is generally "you are mystically terrified out of your mind". So, there is a lot of interesting space here for a race that is ALWAYS scared, so can still operate despite it.

2) Get a Cantrip. Solid ability, useful for all ages and ties into dragon magic.

3) A tail attack for 1d6+strength. I like and don't like this. I'd make it strength or dex, just like that more. Lizards and tail attacks are a perfect match, most of the most terrifying tails in the animal kingdom belong to lizards. However, I think I would go a step further and make the Kobold tail semi-prehensile. As trap makers and tinkers, having what would amount to a 3rd hand would be really interesting to play with. And I think that is more equal in power to their other options than a handaxe on their butt.

Then it plays into that Roar, with an ability that gives all allies advantage against all enemies within 10 ft of you. This is insanely good. This actually brings to mind a pack mentality far more than pack tactics ever did. They are signalling and communicating, distracting and becoming a target. This is AWESOME.

This might not fit the "traditional" view of Kobolds, but these guys are super interesting.



Feats

So, I'm not so sure about some of these.

Chromatic is awesome. Bonus action to get a non-concentration buff of 1d4 elemental damage to all attacks for a minute? Amazing. Add in some Absorb elements resistance and this is a solid feat, ready to go.

Metallic... that first ability sucks. 1/day Cure Wounds? I mean, this could be good for spellcasters who want those additional spell slots to cast it with, but... I don't like it. Their second ability though, is solidly good. Reaction +1d4 to AC to an adjacent ally? I like the visual, I like the ability, I might want to make it +1d6 instead, but it is decently good.

Gem is the only half feat, and I feel that alone speaks poorly for it. The reaction is nice, 2d8 and a push, solid, but I'd rather see something else than it being a half feat. And, it is one of those very passive abilities where you want to get hit but you probably put this on a caster who is going to avoid getting hit. Not a great ability.

Spells

/RANT

WIZARDS GET EVERYTHING AGAIN! WHY WHY WHY!

/END RANT

Seriously, that bugs me. Hitting these in order.

Draconic Transformation is likely balanced, but I don't think it feels like a Draconic Transformation. Compare to Crown of Stars which are seven 4d12 bonus action attacks with no Concentration. This is concentration with a bonus action AOEs of 3d8 force, see invisibility and flight. I think I do agree that getting an AC bonus feels appropriate here, but the damage calculations are likely balanced. Also worth noting, this is a Druid spell on top of the Sorcerer and -----

Fizban's Platinum shield... didn't impress me. Sure, it is good when facing things that cause dex saves vs elemental damage, but two of those elements are usually Con saves, and it can only protect one person, plus is Concentration. It could be good in the right situation, but how often would I take this instead of a different 6th level spell? I'm not sure. Only usable by Sorcerer and ----- to.

Flame Stride is really cool and really really powerful I think. Bonus Action for a +20 ft movement and you ignore opportunity attacks. You can only hit creatures once per turn by moving within 5 ft, for 1d6 damage, but that is almost gravy in a way. And, the creature has no defense against the damage, they just take it. Put this on a Ranger (who deserves it more than the Sorcerer and ------ Edit: Oh, artificers get this too. That is super thematic for them) who happens to be a wood elf? With Roving you could have a movement speed of 60 ft, and that is a lot of potential enemies to hit, especially if you use the DMG rules to allow movement through enemies.

Iceingdeath's Frost is also just a really solid spell. 30 ft cone of 3d8 damage and a grapple on any creature who fails. A grapple that requires an enemy action to break? Though, I just noticed, the range is listed as 15 ft, so their might be some debate there. I think 30 is fine, but maybe that would require lowering the damage. I just want a big "freeze" spell. Only Sorcerer and -----

Nathair's Mischief..... less impressed. 20 ft cube, random effect. Could be a charm, could be blind, could be incapacitated and random movement, could be difficult terrain. I'm not a fan of random effects, and this could be too may different things. They are all good debuffs, but hard to say if the spell will be useful in the moment. Bard, Sorcerer and -----

Raulithom's Psychic Lance. This spell is good, but I'm not sure why people are so impressed with the naming part. You hit a target you can see within 60 ft. They take 10d6 and are incapacitated (a lot of those effects going on) on an Intelligence save. Good, solid, straightforward. The Naming only allows you to hit a target who is behind cover or invisible. OH! I see now. The Naming also makes the spell FREE. No spell slot used. Holy breadbaskets that is good. Now, this isn't useful unless you have a 4th level slot (you still need to be able to start the casting) and it only works if you know their name, which is going to be rare, but.. dang, this is a death sentence if you know their name. 10d6 every round with no ability to take actions to retaliate? That is too good, perhaps. It is incredibly easy to shut that down, as a DM, but if the players work for it this kills anything that has trouble succeeding an Int save, and becomes a 10d6 cantrip. YIKES. And it can be used by Bards, Sorcerers, Warlocks, and -----

Summon Draconic Spirit is awesome. Just straight up. I know the breath weapon doesn't scale, but it also is at will. An at-will AOE of 2d6 in a 30 ft cone, of your choice of damage, plus two attacks of 1d6+9? That is a round by round 4d6+18, very solid. The spirit is going to have a great AC of 19, but is a bit squishy with 50 hp. Still a good amount of hp though. Plus, it is Fast and has reach. 80 ft fly speed and 10 ft reach means this baby is spending its time in the air while kiting the enemy, and it has Blindsight. Jeebus, this thing is monstrous.

Plus, pay attention to the phrasing of the breath weapon. It does a type that the dragon is resistant to, but they are resistant to 5 types. This means if you summon it to fight fire enemies, it has resistance to fire, but can deal cold or lightning damage, bypassing the common problem of "you can't hurt me, I can't hurt you" I'd rarely use the Gem version, since those are much less commonly resisted elements, and Acid will cut through most enemies who have elemental resistance.

Oh, and it gives you resistance.



Frankly, I think the Spirit ties that Psychic lance for most powerful spell on this list. Good for Druids, Sorcerers and ------, and as a Conjuration spell it can be buffed by Conjuration school or Shepherd. I want it, and I want it now.

[MaxWilson]

1) Gift of the chromatic dragon is okish, but just barely so for a full feat. First of all the damage and duration of the damage rider are meh. It clogs up a bonus action for a d4 (compare this to say getting hex from a feat). The resistance is good though. However scaling with prof really makes this only worthwhile in the tier3-4 range, so you're looking at a feat that most people will never see.

Gift of the Chromatic Dragon does not require concentration or even spellcasting, making it far superior to Hex for a Barbarian, especially a Beast with lots of attacks. Hex isn't even a serious option there.

-Iron Wizard is a terrible example, you know who else prioritises straight Wizard progression? People just playing Wizards without trying to achieve some niche benefit. That build in particular has both the 4th and 8th ASI dedicated (which imo, doesn't prioritise Wizard effectiveness in the least), it obviously won't try and fit a feat like this in. The examples I gave were expicitly V. Human and Custom Lineage because of how easy and early they work feats into builds.

My apologies, I genuinely didn't see whatever build examples you are referring to, so I had to guess (since I don't read minds). Are you sure you didn't give your build examples to someone else?

Note that Iron Wizard "only" needs racial + 4th level ASI to reach decent AC. Building as vhuman or custom lineage actually just makes it slightly worse and doesn't free up any ASIs, which may be why I seem to have missed your point.

I just want to reiterate that my stance is 'this is annoying and unneeded creep/toe stepping' not 'this will bust the game wide open.'

Ah, then we've been talking about different things all along. I was only ever talking about how strong it was, not how annoying it was, since I find ALL race bloat annoying especially the recent UAs. Annoying and unneeded, yes.

I would be very grouchy about 5E right now except that my happiness over the quality of Cthulhu Mythos For 5E (from Sandy Petersen) has trumped my unhappiness over the quality of Tasha's (from WotC). And not just over things like spell balance and monster atmosphere/design--that happiness extends to the little things too, like putting page numbers in the text when referring to material elsewhere in the book. Terrific book.

[GooeyChewie]

Side note on the antisynergy of the AC bump:

I'm not seeing why it's antisynergistic at all? I mean this would only be really bad in a game where the DM rolls behind the screen and just tells you you're hit. Any table that rolls in the open (common on VTT ime) will see if they're hit by just one.

The characters who get the biggest boost from the Cure Wounds portion are spellcasters (because non-casters just get the one instance of the spell) who do not normally have access to Cure Wounds (because otherwise why not just take it as a normal spell). Those characters are Sorcerers, Warlocks and Wizards, all of whom tend to want to cast spells from a safe distance, where you might not even be standing next to another player to use the reaction.

The class most likely to get use out of the AC boost is Paladin, which often wants to stand near friends to allow auras to work anyway. And Paladins already have access to healing magic, both through Cure Wounds and through Lay on Hands.

There's not many builds which get a lot of benefit from both sides of the feat. Maybe Hexblade?

[Hael]

The spells are where this UA gets a bit on the overtuned side.

-Draconic Transformation could be a fifth level spell. Its way undertuned for a seventh level slot. You would need to either increase the damage, increase the duration or remove the concentration side to make it something someone would want
-Fizbans platinum shield. What a fantastic spell! Its mechanically very strong, worthy of concentration and my only regret is that I think it would fit bards or clerics more than wizards and sorcerers.
-Flame Stride. I really like this spell and love that Rangers and Artificers get access to it.
-Icing Death. This is ridiculously OP. Its a very large area of effect, with high aoe damage and a strong CC effect, the removal of which wastes another enemies turn. As written its probably the best 2nd lvl spell in the game.
-Nathairs mischief. I'm not sure I like the flavor of this spell. Still its very strong for a 2nd lvl spell but it requires a lot of metagame knowledge.
-Raulothims Lance. Another OP spell. The int save is where the problem is, as its almost a guaranteed CC and big damage spell against an invisible target. Thus I think there's too many effects for a 4th lvl slot. It also gives Bards a very potent blasting spell, which i'm not entirely sure you want to encourage too much. Imo this should be warlock/wizard only.
-Summon Draconic spirit. First of all, this is a fantastic mount as it seems to have substance. It gives you a free resistance, b/c of course summons should. As far as the statblock, having a flying creature hit that hard with an every turn aoe breath weapon, might cause some problems at some tables as you can use it to clear out legions of lesser enemies with little counterplay. Overall, this is not better than some of Tashas other summon spells, but it again proves that summons are a balance point problem for 5e, as it gives even more versatility and options in that space. Note that this is the first 'universal' summon spell available to sorcerors.

[Hael]

Gift of the Chromatic Dragon does not require concentration or even spellcasting, making it far superior to Hex for a Barbarian, especially a Beast with lots of attacks. Hex isn't even a serious option there.

Definitely an upgrade for a barbarian. However for most other cases, I think you'd definitely want magic initiate instead.

From a pure DPR perspective, its hard to justify this feat over the damage riders of even half-feats like elven accuracy, so i'm sorta at a loss on who really wants this. Maybe one of the last feats for a 2h sword champion?

Meh.

[Dork_Forge]

Gift of the Chromatic Dragon does not require concentration or even spellcasting, making it far superior to Hex for a Barbarian, especially a Beast with lots of attacks. Hex isn't even a serious option there.

Probably better on something like a Fighter, since anything BA competes with Rage, great if your DM leans towards fewer but harder encounters though.

My apologies, I genuinely didn't see whatever build examples you are referring to, so I had to guess (since I don't read minds). Are you sure you didn't give your build examples to someone else?

No mind reading involved you replied, quoting me, talking about V. Human and Custom Lineage, then started talking about a niche Wizard build that I doubt sees any use outside of people that frequent this forum and actually think highly of it.

Note that Iron Wizard "only" needs racial + 4th level ASI to reach decent AC. Building as vhuman or custom lineage actually just makes it slightly worse and doesn't free up any ASIs, which may be why I seem to have missed your point.

The build explicitly assigns the first two ASIs, what is needed for a 'decent AC' is irrelevant, the overall build doesn't have ASIs to go around on other things.

You say it makes it slightly worse, are you talking about from an AC stand point? I didn't mean to make a point that taking this particular feat makes a superior or equal AC character to any particular build, and I'm not sure I said something along the way that could be construed as such.

Ah, then we've been talking about different things all along. I was only ever talking about how strong it was, not how annoying it was, since I find ALL race bloat annoying especially the recent UAs. Annoying and unneeded, yes.

I would be very grouchy about 5E right now except that my happiness over the quality of Cthulhu Mythos For 5E (from Sandy Petersen) has trumped my unhappiness over the quality of Tasha's (from WotC). And not just over things like spell balance and monster atmosphere/design--that happiness extends to the little things too, like putting page numbers in the text when referring to material elsewhere in the book. Terrific book.

Glad I cleared that up. I'm always hesistant to look into third party materials, since I can't rely on it when I do get the chance to play, I can't universally discuss it and if I want something in my games I'll just 'brew it myself or alter existing options.

The characters who get the biggest boost from the Cure Wounds portion are spellcasters (because non-casters just get the one instance of the spell) who do not normally have access to Cure Wounds (because otherwise why not just take it as a normal spell). Those characters are Sorcerers, Warlocks and Wizards, all of whom tend to want to cast spells from a safe distance, where you might not even be standing next to another player to use the reaction.

Arguable, freeing up your spells prepared (in the case of a Paladin for example) is nice, I have two players that play Paladins (two separate games) and they both struggle over preparing their lists (both with +3 or +4 Cha), both never wanting to leave Cure Wounds behind (and one actually preferring it to Lay on Hands).

The class most likely to get use out of the AC boost is Paladin, which often wants to stand near friends to allow auras to work anyway. And Paladins already have access to healing magic, both through Cure Wounds and through Lay on Hands.

There's not many builds which get a lot of benefit from both sides of the feat. Maybe Hexblade?

Paladins would benefit, anyone with slots so AT, EKs, any Pact of the Blade, Bladesingers, Gish multiclasses...

Edit:to clarify part of my confusion is at the very least, everyone can gain some degree of benefit from being able to heal themselves or another and at least being able to increase their own AC.

[SharkForce]

Raulithom's Psychic Lance. This spell is good, but I'm not sure why people are so impressed with the naming part. You hit a target you can see within 60 ft. They take 10d6 and are incapacitated (a lot of those effects going on) on an Intelligence save. Good, solid, straightforward. The Naming only allows you to hit a target who is behind cover or invisible. OH! I see now. The Naming also makes the spell FREE. No spell slot used. Holy breadbaskets that is good. Now, this isn't useful unless you have a 4th level slot (you still need to be able to start the casting) and it only works if you know their name, which is going to be rare, but.. dang, this is a death sentence if you know their name. 10d6 every round with no ability to take actions to retaliate? That is too good, perhaps. It is incredibly easy to shut that down, as a DM, but if the players work for it this kills anything that has trouble succeeding an Int save, and becomes a 10d6 cantrip. YIKES. And it can be used by Bards, Sorcerers, Warlocks, and -----

it's only free if your target isn't within range. that's still pretty good, because it's safe to use if you even *think* they might be in range, and you can use it from inside an impenetrable barrier if you can set that up, but it isn't as crazy as you think.

[MaxWilson]

No mind reading involved you replied, quoting me, talking about V. Human and Custom Lineage, then started talking about a niche Wizard build that I doubt sees any use outside of people that frequent this forum and actually think highly of it.

You didn't give an example of how you would use those vhuman/custom lineage feats, so I had to infer. It's not a niche GITP scenario--buying moderate armor and shield use was one of the first things I ever saw wizards doing with feats, back in 2015. I could have been more clear about the fact that I'm not referring solely and specifically to the Iron Wizard "build" that you're thinking of, rather to the general trend of armored wizards with shields, but I think that's implicit in giving an example: of course one example isn't supposed to be an exhaustive list of all examples.

In any case, I don't think you've made the case that vhumans or custom lineages get enough mileage out of Cure Wounds to prioritize it as a feat on a pure class wizard. I wish you would give an example.

[thoroughlyS]

After seeing this UA, I am riding high. I have been advocating for the attack substitution breath weapon on Dragonborn since at least October of 2018. On top of that, I have advocated for removing Pack Tactics on kobolds, and even for reflavoring Grovel, Cower, & Beg. These revisions are definitely pushing the power curve, which I feel reflects the general direction of the game.

I'm also excited for gem dragons and gem dragonborn, especially seeing how they decided to differentiate the breath weapons from one another. I have been a fan of the idea of kobolds with a natural weapon, and for some reason it being their tail as opposed to their bite or claws really pleases me. The new feats aren't all that interesting to me. I'm not a caster, but the spells look pretty wild.

I also agree that the replacement for Grovel, Cower, & Beg seems a little bonkers as a bonus action.

[OvisCaedo]

"Power Level. The character options you read here might be more or less powerful than options in the Player’s Handbook. If a design survives playtesting, we adjust its power to the desirable level before official publication. This means an option could be more or less powerful in its final form."

"The dragonborn race in the Player’s Handbook is one way to reflect a character with dragons somewhere far back in their ancestry. This document offers three variant dragonborn races you can choose instead, if you want a character with clearer connections to a specific draconic ancestry-"

These two statements are really funny to me for what is blatantly supposed to be a stronger version of an infamously underpowered race option. It's like they CAN'T openly admit that maybe PHB dragonborn were too weak.

As content itself goes, the dragonborm rework seems alright to me. Not super sure about kobold, or the feats, and the spells also seem like a mixed bag.

[Dork_Forge]

You didn't give an example of how you would use those vhuman/custom lineage feats, so I had to infer.

I merely mentioned them as cheap ways to get feats, and we were talking about a particular feat.

It's not a niche GITP scenario--buying moderate armor and shield use was one of the first things I ever saw wizards doing with feats, back in 2015. I could have been more clear about the fact that I'm not referring solely and specifically to the Iron Wizard "build" that you're thinking of, rather to the general trend of armored wizards with shields, but I think that's implicit in giving an example: of course one example isn't supposed to be an exhaustive list of all examples.

The build I'm thinking of is named build popular on the forums that we are discussing this on, that you brought up by name. A single example needn't be an exhaustive list, but it was the only example given and inferring unspoken examples that you may not be thinking of or even agree with doesn't really seem reasonable on my part.

In any case, I don't think you've made the case that vhumans or custom lineages get enough mileage out of Cure Wounds to prioritize it as a feat on a pure class wizard. I wish you would give an example.

The feat isn't Cure Wounds, it's Cure Wounds + a defensive ability that can be shared. If you really need a fleshed out example or where that would be useful, okay:

Party of four:

Bear Totem Barbarian

Battle Master Fighter (but literally any subclass that isn't Psi Warrior or Banneret would do)

Literally any Monk but Mercy

V. Human/Custom Lineage Bladesinger Wizard (though any Wizard except maybe War Wizard fits here)

The races of the other characters isn't particularly relevant.

As is, the party has no cross character healing, no one wants to play a class with built in cross character healing. Wizard is happy to take a feat to patch this need and ends up with Cure Wounds and a nifty defensive ability.

If all the AC bump ever does is spare the occasional 1st level slot for the Wizard on Shield, it's doing decently imo, but the Wizard can stand behind the others or side by side if desired (Bladesinger makes this more feasible).

Being able to pick someone up if necessary and top someone off between combat, especially without needing a slot to do so the first time, is a huge boon to this party.

This kind of situation isn't uncommon, I can't count the amount of times I've had players come together with no healer and worry about it (regardless what I say about them playing what they want).

This also works if the healing in the party is light on healing or just want a more plentiful source of it (I don't like Arcane Recovery, but it gives a Wizard the slots mileage to make good use of something like this).

[Kane0]

These two statements are really funny to me for what is blatantly supposed to be a stronger version of an infamously underpowered race option. It's like they CAN'T openly admit that maybe PHB dragonborn were too weak.

Same goes for many other things (Ranger, Berserker, Feats and Spells, etc)

[Christopher K.]

I'm enjoying the UA - hopefully that means there might be a draconomicon or similar on its way, though I'm a little confused on the logic behind Draconic Roar on kobolds. If it's supposed to be a rallying cry to give your allies advantage, is it much of a "roar at your enemies?" Or if it's supposed to be an intimidation tactic so your allies can get the slip on your foes, would this be ineffective against creatures immune to being frightened?

[Hytheter]

The new Dragonborn breath weapons are kind of a stealth buff for the Dragon Fear feat. You can now throw out an AOE fear effect in the middle of your attack routine several times per day. Conquest Paladins may enjoy this? Although the aura damage triggering a re-save might be too self-defeating...

In general this is good for anyone with extra attack but especially anyone who gets "once per turn" rider that wouldn't benefit your second attack anyway, example zealot barbs, anyone using a smite spell, sneak attack on a multiclass etc. Blow your load on attack 1 and then shoot an aoe attack 2.

Might be fun on Bladesingers and their special extra attack, too. Replace one attack with a cantrip, and one with a pseudo burning hands? Definitely sounds cool and thematic, and decently strong too.

The draconic monk has similar mechanics. Stack the two and you've got breath attacks for days, including the option to replace both of your attacks with different breath weapons and then still flurry.

[MaxWilson]

The new Dragonborn breath weapons are kind of a stealth buff for the Dragon Fear feat. You can now throw out an AOE fear effect in the middle of your attack routine several times per day. Conquest Paladins may enjoy this? Although the aura damage triggering a re-save might be too self-defeating...

In general this is good for anyone with extra attack but especially anyone who gets "once per turn" rider that wouldn't benefit your second attack anyway, example zealot barbs, anyone using a smite spell, aasimar transforms, sneak attack on a multiclass etc. Blow your load on attack 1 and then shoot an aoe attack 2.

Excellent insight, thanks Hytheter!

========================

The build I'm thinking of is named build popular on the forums that we are discussing this on, that you brought up by name. A single example needn't be an exhaustive list, but it was the only example given and inferring unspoken examples that you may not be thinking of or even agree with doesn't really seem reasonable on my part.

Oh come on. Quote:

At the risk of repeating myself, I see your point but I see Cure Wounds showing up already as a fringe benefit so it doesn't strike me as power creep. There are pure class builds like the Iron Wizard who prioritize wizard spell progression, but they tend to be starved for ASIs already and are IMO unlikely to want to invest an ASI in Cure Wounds, compared to all the other goodies available via ASIs like better initiative and blindsight (I'm assuming that anyone who plays with Post-Tasha's UA probably also plays with Tasha's feats).

Don't tell me that "pure class builds like Iron Wizard who... tend to be starved for ASIs" is laser-focused on a specific build niche. I can't believe you're complaining about not getting more examples of feat-starved pure class builds from me given that up until now you've provided even fewer examples of your thinking (zero) than I did (one, plus I told you the selection principle: pure class, feat starved). But at least you finally did in this post:

If you really need a fleshed out example or where that would be useful, okay:

Party of four:

Bear Totem Barbarian

Battle Master Fighter (but literally any subclass that isn't Psi Warrior or Banneret would do)

Literally any Monk but Mercy

V. Human/Custom Lineage Bladesinger Wizard (though any Wizard except maybe War Wizard fits here)

The races of the other characters isn't particularly relevant.

As is, the party has no cross character healing, no one wants to play a class with built in cross character healing. Wizard is happy to take a feat to patch this need and ends up with Cure Wounds and a nifty defensive ability.

Looks to me as if the wizard would be better off with the Healer feat instead. Cheap healing every short rest with no spell slot cost plus unlimited popup heals. I think this example is undermining your point instead of supporting it.

If you pick another wizard besides Bladesinger then Gift of the Metallic Dragons (or whatever the name is) gets even worse because now you're even less likely to be able to get value out of the protective half of the feat (can't protect front-liners without being near the front line, and for protecting yourself you won't typically want to risk spending your reaction on a mere +d4 to AC against a single hit because that leaves you unable to Shield against other hits vs. your crummy AC), so now you're getting expensive subpar healing and very little else.

It's not a compelling feat.

[ATHATH]

I think that the Mischief spell looks seriously good. A movable 20ft cube that takes no kind of action to move is good. Sure the effects are unreliable but as a crowd control spell from a level 2 slot it isnt bad.

The problem with Mischief is that two of the effects are basically duds (remember, the charmed condition does very little in this edition), while the other two are really good. Even with a 50/50 chance to whiff each turn (not even accounting for saving throws and the like), it looks like it could still be very good, but the lowrolls look like they'd be pretty unfun to roll.

[ATHATH]

aasimar transforms

Won't that conflict with being a dragonborn?

[sambojin]

Just from the Druid's end of things:


Gem Dragon racials are interesting. Especially for Moons. Telepathy is great for when you're spending a fair bit of time in wildshape, and you get lvl3 flight. It's not much flying, but since you can use it in wildshape, it'll be really handy. Like, really handy.

You also get a resistance. Sounds a bit "meh", but by the time Moons are level 10, you'll have B/P/S non-magical resistance in elemental form, and an extra from your gem dragon type. More odd resistances are good, especially considering you can cover a lot of the rest while in caster form with Absorb Elements.

Breath weapons work fine in some wildshape forms, in some situations. Choose your biggest attack, attack action with that, and bonus action in your breath weapon. Not even too bad on some multiattack forms, because they mostly have a big/small attack thing going. No good if a rider triggers a bonus action attack, otherwise it's not too bad.


You get bugger all new spells. But they're pretty good.

Summon Dragon works fine, and removes a lot of "Conjures aren't that versatile" stuff at lvl9. Or if your DM/ table hates heaps of conjures anyway. The ok'ish to-hit is good too. Conjures *are* that versatile, but it's another arrow in your quiver, with some fun stuff to do, for a 5th level slot. Is it better than double Animals, an extra cast of Woodland Beings, or compared to Conjure Elemental? Maybe. It's probably better than Elementals anyway for the same slot, due to 1 round casting time and 1hr duration, with no backfire potential. Think of it as Summon Greater Steed if you want, but it does a bit of combat stuff too. And gives another resistance. Actually, it gives nearly any resistance on cast, as-in whatever. Like, lots :)
(It annoyingly doesn't have prone/ restrained/ paralyzed/ grappled/ petrified/ unconscious immunity. So it can still be dropped like a stone from the air with basic condition riders, like from a Dex BM fighter Archer. Something you can't do to an Air Elemental, ever. Elementals have a huge list of condition immunities, on top of some basic damage resistances/ immunities. There's a pretty big reason elemental wildshape takes both charges, for "meh" levels of damage).

Draconic Transformation seems a lot better for Druids than it does for most. It's not great for a lvl7 spell, but it has its lols. Because of firebreathing flying mammoths and stuff as a Moon. Or yamato-battle-cannon Giant Eagles as a Stars (with smaller cannons as Archer included). A bit of blindsight opens up stupid-druid-stuff a bit too. There's plenty of dumb "it works because it's magic" things available, especially with varying party make-up and gimmicks. This kind of thing is always fun.