Awakened Animals as PCs (Specifically Monkeys, Apes, and Baboons)

[Rowanomicon]

I'll start with Baboons since they are medium sized primates.

What would the LA be on an awakened baboon as a PC race?
Does Savage Species or some other book give rules/guidlines for finding LA for such creatures?

It seems to me like +2 or +3 would be about right.

Also I'd think it would have to use the pricing rules for oddly shaped armor.

Would you think it can use human weapons?

On top of that does anyone have any thought/feelings/stories about awakened animals as PCs.

[TheLogman]

Currently, I believe the Awakened template gives a boost to Wis. However, you could easily swing it so that whatever the player wants to play, their Race gives them a bonus to that. For example: A Strength-based gorilla fighter, a Dex-based Lemur Rouge, an Int based Rafiki-monkey Wizard, and a Wis-based creature that doesn't even have to be a monkey, I think a Turtle Cleric of Fharlanghn would rule on principle.

[kkortekaas]

This is going to sound like a stupid question, because I know I've seen the rules somewhere, but in what Sourcebook are Awakened animals in?

If memory serves its a spell right?

[Mewtarthio]

It's in the SRD. It's a Druid spell.

The main problem with Awakened Animal PCs is the Racial Hit Dice. You've already got some inferior animal HD, and getting Awakened sticks you with two more.

[Rowanomicon]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/awaken.htm is a spell in the SRD/PHB.

Awakened animals get 3d6 Int (replaces their normal score) and +1d3 Cha (added to their normal score). Also they get +2HD and their type become Magical Beast.

Question: When your type changes all your previous HD change to that type right? This would affect your HP, BAB, and Skill Points.

[TheLogman]

Oops, ya sorry about that, I got Anthropomorphic characters and awakened characters mixed up. I still stand by pretty much what I said before though, Gorilla Fighter, Lemur Rouge, but it doesn't matter what the Wizard and Clerics are, a Fharlanghn Cleric Turtle would be hilarious and ironic. As for the Wizard, the pie's the limit as far as that goes, you could be a Wizard Dolphin and still be pretty good. However, if you want them to thematically the same, (Probably a jungle theme), the Wizard could be a Lizard. Ya, that would be cool, a Lizard, like V was except like a big ol' Monitor Lizard, but like really old.

[EL HUEVADOR]

The Stormwrack accessory has stats for flying monkey PCs.

I'm serious. It's awesome.

[Rowanomicon]

Yes both a Lizard wizard and a Turtle Cleric would rock.

A Flying Monkey could be a lot of fun. Also it would be fun to have a bunch of them as followers (from the Leadership feat, or as Animal Companions, or something) and call them your "pretties."

[Yuki Akuma]

I'd say that an awakened animal with opposable thumbs should be able to use weapons just fine. That's the only reason humans are able to use them, after all.

It'd be a bit silly for a creature with the awesomeness that is the ability to use tools to be unable to use tools for some reason.

[UserClone]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/awaken.htm is a spell in the SRD/PHB.

Awakened animals get 3d6 Int (replaces their normal score) and +1d3 Cha (added to their normal score). Also they get +2HD and their type become Magical Beast.

Question: When your type changes all your previous HD change to that type right? This would affect your HP, BAB, and Skill Points.

So, techincally, a Maximized awaken would give them 18 Int and +3 to their Cha score?

[Grynning]

This reminds me of one of the few times a DM has turned down one of my character ideas. We were playing a pirate-based game and I really, really wanted me or someone in the group to play an Awakened parrot. He thought it was just too goofy and complicated. Ah, well.
From a role-playing standpoint, I think it would be really fun to play an awakened animal without opposable thumbs or a humanoid shape. From a rules standpoint, I do wonder if animals without hands could do spells that have a somatic component...that would have to be house-ruled somehow.

[KillianHawkeye]

So, techincally, a Maximized awaken would give them 18 Int and +3 to their Cha score?

Yes.

IIRC from when I was in an awakened animals campaign back in 3.0, I don't think we had any level adjustment (other than the racial HD), but I'm not sure if that's RAW or just the way we did it.

Long live the half-celestial housecat paladin!!!

[Sledge_bro]

Lizard wizard made me snort cola all over my PC moniter

Chipmunk monk

Duel Boomerang rogue orangatang

Though I did make an awakend Dire hippo Fighter/Swashbuckler/Honourable Dread pirate for a lv 16 campaign we had going on.

needless to say him and his crew of awakend monkeys were not taken very seriously, despite the fact that he could pull off Dc 35 balance, jump and climb checks easily :P

[Vva70]

This reminds me of one of the few times a DM has turned down one of my character ideas. We were playing a pirate-based game and I really, really wanted me or someone in the group to play an Awakened parrot. He thought it was just too goofy and complicated. Ah, well.
From a role-playing standpoint, I think it would be really fun to play an awakened animal without opposable thumbs or a humanoid shape. From a rules standpoint, I do wonder if animals without hands could do spells that have a somatic component...that would have to be house-ruled somehow.

Naga can cast spells with somatic components with no hands whatsoever. Any species can use whatever body parts are normally available to it (which is sort of the concept behind natural spell as well). A human turned into an animal without hands isn't be able to use somatic components because the body is not natural for a human. But awakened animals should have no problem. 'Course that's interpretation, and I don't believe it's actually spelled out in the rules, but I believe the naga bit is in the FAQ.

[Fishy]

From a role-playing standpoint, I think it would be really fun to play an awakened animal without opposable thumbs or a humanoid shape. From a rules standpoint, I do wonder if animals without hands could do spells that have a somatic component...that would have to be house-ruled somehow.

You know, there's no real reason why you couldn't take Acquire Familiar, or the Urban Companion alternate class feature, and simply play as your Raven. Rather than "I command my familiar to scout up ahead," you'd say "I tell the big guy to cast Magic Missile." And Beguiller pets make decent skillmonkeys.

[Yuki Akuma]

It does make you wonder who is developing tiger wizardry sometimes.

There's a way of casting spells for every single creature in existance. Okay, makes sense for divine spells or Sorcerers. But who's teaching all these non-humanoid Wizards?!

[MCerberus]

But who's teaching all these non-humanoid Wizards?!

Other wizards did it, enabling Tiger Wizards to do it.

[Rowanomicon]

I would say that if there's other intelligent member of that species, or intelligent species with similar physiology then that's who's teaching them Wizardry.

For instance an Awakened Wolf could definitely become a Wizard (and a kick-ass one if the Awaken was Maximized) because there are intelligent species with the same physiology as Wolves.

On a side note I've always wanted to play as a Familiar (or similar secondary character) and treat the PC as my cohort.

I would very much like to see a Hippo (especially a Dire Hippo) make a DC 35 Jump (35 foot long jump or 8-9 foot high jump). Holy Flying-Hippos, Batman Wizard!

I agree that animals with opposable thumbs should be able to use normal human tools and weapons.

Grynning, if I had been your DM I totally would have allowed it.

I've always thought to would be funny to do something like play an Awakened Toad Druid and then wild shape into Wolves, Bears, and the like. Also you could ride around on your animal companion Eagle.

[Stormcrow]

Best way around the LA is for everyone to choose a base animal with the same HD. LA only exists to balance the PC's against each other really. No one falls behind if everyones ECL is the same.

[Rowanomicon]

Oh, thank you for taking the discussion back to an unresolved point.
I'd still like to discuss that.

What you suggest would (probably) work most of the time, but sometimes LA are granted by things that are not related to the number of HD. Some character may outshine others because of Ability Bonuses, Special Attacks/Qualities, or Natural Armor.

Also, LA exists to not only balance the PCs against each other, but also to balance them against the encounters they will be facing.

[Alysar]

Turtle Monk, anyone?

[Rowanomicon]

Turtle Monk, anyone?

I would take the Battle Jumper feat (CoW, I think).

FLYING TURTLE OF DEATH!

[Leliel]

The Awakened Chimp Wizard: Poving that yes, Darwin was right.

[tyckspoon]

Oh, thank you for taking the discussion back to an unresolved point.
I'd still like to discuss that.

What you suggest would (probably) work most of the time, but sometimes LA are granted by things that are not related to the number of HD. Some character may outshine others because of Ability Bonuses, Special Attacks/Qualities, or Natural Armor.

Also, LA exists to not only balance the PCs against each other, but also to balance them against the encounters they will be facing.

Assuming you stick with the standard systems, the fact that the Awakened animal PCs are stuck with Animal Hit Dice instead of class levels should more than make up for any special ability you can find on an animal. (Unless somebody is playing an Awakened Fleshraker. That thing would deserve an extra LA.)

[Karsh]

The Awakened Chimp Wizard: Poving that yes, Darwin was right.

Right about monkeys being susceptible to druidic magics which could grant them the power to cast spells which make reality weep?

Man, I've gotta get my hands on that Origin of Species.

The Evolutionomicon....

[Leliel]

Right about monkeys being susceptible to druidic magics which could grant them the power to cast spells which make reality weep?

Man, I've gotta get my hands on that Origin of Species.

The Evolutionomicon....

Actually, I meant in that they are are closest relatives.

The Evoloutionomicon sounds like a pretty sweet artifact though.

[tyckspoon]

Question: When your type changes all your previous HD change to that type right? This would affect your HP, BAB, and Skill Points.

I hadn't noticed this wasn't answered. The answer is: It depends on the transformation. With Awaken, the answer is no. Subjects of the spell become Magical Animals (augmented Animal.) Augmented has this to say about itself:

Some creatures (those with an inherited template) are born with this subtype; others acquire it when they take on an acquired template. The augmented subtype is always paired with the creature’s original type. A creature with the augmented subtype usually has the traits of its current type, but the features of its original type.

So the hit dice would still use the Animal size, BAB progression, and saves.

[Rowanomicon]

Oh, OK, thanks for pointing that out.

So they gain Darkvision and some other minor stuff (such as the ability to have treasure and for "non-combative herbivores" to use their natural weapons as primary wepons), but keep their HD, BAB, etc.

I think that the Evolutionomicon would make a good artifact. It would have an Anti-Creationism Field and dispel all Divine Magic in the area.
Also unnatural creatures such as Owlbears would take 1d6 con damage/round within sight of it.

I agree that most Awakened Animals would be an appropriate power level for a character of an ECL equal to their HD. I guess and LA is not needed in most cases.

[Chronos]

I agree that most Awakened Animals would be an appropriate power level for a character of an ECL equal to their HD. I guess and LA is not needed in most cases.

Don't be so sure. Creatures with one or fewer racial HD get their racial die replaced by their first class level, and there are a lot of 1 HD animals out there that would make very effective PCs. A baboon, for instance, would get +4 Str and Dex and +2 Wis and Con (and an abyssmal Cha, but a lot of players wouldn't care about that). You could make a significantly better fighter or rogue out of that than out of a standard race, and even a wizard would benefit significantly (everyone loves Con, and Dex means initiative, AC, and ray attacks). Going smaller, a monkey has that same dex bonus, and being Tiny can be very advantageous for anyone who doesn't do melee (bonuses to AC and stealth skills, and able to get through tight places). The strength is low, but what does a wizard care about that?

[Mewtarthio]

Right about monkeys being susceptible to druidic magics which could grant them the power to cast spells which make reality weep?

Man, I've gotta get my hands on that Origin of Species.

The Evolutionomicon....

Ah, so that's what Chandra Suresh was reading when he did his research in Heroes!

In case you're curious, I've always assumed that "Evo Lou-Schun" is the name of the dark and mysterious god worshipped by the Sureshes. Sylar is, of course, Evo's mortal scion, created to balance the power they drew from it to give everyone superpowers. It's the only way I can watch that show without the pseudoscience making my brain explode. No offense meant to fans of course, since I do still watch the show.

Don't be so sure. Creatures with one or fewer racial HD get their racial die replaced by their first class level, and there are a lot of 1 HD animals out there that would make very effective PCs. A baboon, for instance, would get +4 Str and Dex and +2 Wis and Con (and an abyssmal Cha, but a lot of players wouldn't care about that). You could make a significantly better fighter or rogue out of that than out of a standard race, and even a wizard would benefit significantly (everyone loves Con, and Dex means initiative, AC, and ray attacks). Going smaller, a monkey has that same dex bonus, and being Tiny can be very advantageous for anyone who doesn't do melee (bonuses to AC and stealth skills, and able to get through tight places). The strength is low, but what does a wizard care about that?

Awakened animals get two additional Animal HD.