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2021-05-03, 05:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2012
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Is Durkon going to become (or already is) an apostate?
Durkon seemed really disappointed, even angry with Thor in #1232 and in #1233 he badmouths the gods some more.
I'm wondering is this just a temporary spat or is the start of a more serious disillusionment that Durkon has, maybe leading to him renouncing his faith?
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2021-05-03, 05:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2011
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Re: Is Durkon going to become (or already is) an apostate?
Well if it happens mechanically, we should see the same visual effects that we saw for Miko when she officially Fell.
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2021-05-03, 05:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
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- France
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Re: Is Durkon going to become (or already is) an apostate?
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2021-05-03, 05:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2018
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Re: Is Durkon going to become (or already is) an apostate?
Yeah, where does it say followers, even clerics, have to believe their gods are literally perfect? Thor's still a good guy, he just has his own biases, which I'm sure Durkon was already aware of.
I'd just like to point out that saying that something unsupported is the case unless someone else can prove that it is not is an utter failure of logic. - Kish
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2021-05-03, 09:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
Re: Is Durkon going to become (or already is) an apostate?
Is Durkon going to become (or already is) an apostate?
No, he's not, and no, he isn't.
Next question.Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2021-05-04, 09:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- Somewhere in Utah...
- Gender
Re: Is Durkon going to become (or already is) an apostate?
Considering that Thor basically agreed with his criticism, no.
Last edited by Jason; 2021-05-04 at 09:37 AM.
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2021-05-04, 12:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
- Location
- Florida, USA
- Gender
Re: Is Durkon going to become (or already is) an apostate?
It's more like disappointment with the Gods as a collective, not Thor specifically.
Wolfen Houndog - The World in Revolt (4e)
The Mythic Warrior, a 3.5 base class that severs limbs and sunders armor
The Nameless One, converted to 3.5 and 5e
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2021-05-04, 12:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2008
Re: Is Durkon going to become (or already is) an apostate?
Durkon asked a question, Thor answered it honestly.
Last edited by JonahFalcon; 2021-05-04 at 12:23 PM.
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2021-05-04, 12:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
- Location
- Poland
- Gender
Re: Is Durkon going to become (or already is) an apostate?
It would be an interesting plot twist to have Durkon become a Dark One's cleric to solve the whole problem. Would he keep his cleric levels when switching over to a new deity?
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2021-05-04, 12:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2008
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2021-05-04, 12:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2021
- Gender
Re: Is Durkon going to become (or already is) an apostate?
It might be interesting depending on how it was handled but Durkon isn't capable of casting 9th level spells.
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2021-05-04, 12:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- Somewhere in Utah...
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Re: Is Durkon going to become (or already is) an apostate?
I don't think the Dark One would accept a dwarf as his high priest. And I especially don't think a dwarf who is "really" a devotee of Thor would be acceptable.
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2021-05-04, 12:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2020
Re: Is Durkon going to become (or already is) an apostate?
That is easily remedied! All the others have to do is to kill and reincarnate Durkon repeatedly until he is a goblinoid.
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2021-05-04, 01:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
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- France
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Re: Is Durkon going to become (or already is) an apostate?
But then he would be too low-level to cast the right spell.
Jokes aside, I'm surprisingly found of that idea (the conversion, not the reincarnation), bonkers as it sounds. I've long suspected that either Red or the Dark One would ultimately refuse to take part in Thor's plan. If Redcloak is not on-board, one could imagine TDO making a special exception and granting power to Durkon to cast the ritual.
Wait, I just realized that if TDO is onboard, then they don't need a priest.Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2021-05-04, 01:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2021
- Location
- Formosa, Goiás (Brasil)
- Gender
Re: Is Durkon going to become (or already is) an apostate?
Absolutely not, Thor values Durkon a lot and I wouldn't be surprised if he was chosen as the next High Priest (some decades after this, but still).
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2021-05-04, 02:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- Somewhere in Utah...
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Re: Is Durkon going to become (or already is) an apostate?
There's the answer: Durkon should ascend to dietyhood in the goblin pantheon. Durkon, the Lawful Good god of goblin kids.
Or maybe Belkar could ascend to become the death god of the goblins. He certainly has killed many of them.
Edit: although when I think about it, Redcloak has a higher tally. Maybe he will be the new goblin god of death.Last edited by Jason; 2021-05-04 at 02:06 PM.
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2021-05-06, 12:59 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2012
- Gender
Re: Is Durkon going to become (or already is) an apostate?
I actually came to the forum to ask if we thought he'd lose access to his Thor magic, he's seemed aggravated in the past couple strips, and at least some of it seems directed at Thor, even if most is at the gods as a whole.
Granted, just because you're upset with someone doesn't mean you hate them now.
And he seemed to mishear Thor at the end of the commune.
"You'll think of something, just get in there and try again. And don't get yourself or minrah imploded."
"'E said I should try ta not get ye imploded."
Which I feel like foreshadows some tension there.
Huh... Clearly Durkon represents the dwarven patriarchy. This explains his tension with Thor, and why he's so upset that Thor wanted him to protect a lesser female. Clearly he's going to abandon the chaotic good Thor for the no doubt lawful evil dark one, who would totally be okay with oppressing women as long as they aren't goblinoids. :PLast edited by JennTora; 2021-05-06 at 01:15 AM.
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2021-05-06, 01:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
- Location
- France
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Re: Is Durkon going to become (or already is) an apostate?
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2021-05-06, 01:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
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Re: Is Durkon going to become (or already is) an apostate?
The problem is, gods are less reasonable than mortals in this universe due to how they work remember? Loki can't tell the truth unless hes rubbing it in Thor's face, Odin is a fool because of the northerner's beliefs, so if the goblin's culture of hate to humans is any indication, convincing him to let go of his hatred would be literally impossible.
like there is an entire theme in OOTS that the more supernatural you are, the more your perspective tends to be skewed and warped by cosmic forces. and wouldn't it be an interesting parallel for Redcloak to finally commune with his god and have a very different conversation with him rather than Durkon has with Thor? I think the Dark One being such an important figure to all this, that we can't go without them meeting and that might be something that gives Redcloak perspective on his own deity.
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2021-05-06, 05:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2012
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Re: Is Durkon going to become (or already is) an apostate?
I don't think so. Thor didn't say to try not to get minrah imploded, he said not to. Plus immediately after Thor told him this, Durkon's speech is broken up, too.
"Mebbe if'n you could- -me some- -off'r ta take back ta-"
There's room to believe he didn't hear him properly anyway.Last edited by JennTora; 2021-05-06 at 05:32 AM.
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2021-05-06, 05:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2020
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2021-05-06, 05:49 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2017
Re: Is Durkon going to become (or already is) an apostate?
...is that like a cross between an apostle and a prostate? :-/
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2021-05-06, 07:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
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- France
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Re: Is Durkon going to become (or already is) an apostate?
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2021-05-06, 07:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
Re: Is Durkon going to become (or already is) an apostate?
What is your fondest memory involving ice cream?
Don't forget about high priestess Rubyrock. Unless she decides to step down for some reason, or the post is only temporary or something that can be contested, I am not certain, even if Durkon may possess all qualities that would qualify him for the job.
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2021-05-06, 07:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
- Location
- Texas
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Re: Is Durkon going to become (or already is) an apostate?
I'd say rather than skewed and warped, informed, but you are on to something here. Deities do not see things as mortals do (which makes a lot of sense, if you are immortal and you've made and seen destroyed millions of worlds, are stuck with one quiddity, etc). Where ya sit determines what ya see.
I love your take on the Redcloak/TDO meeting: not what I expected would be a cool way for it to go ...
Do I need to restrain my jokes about the fickle finger of fate (which is a gag from Laugh In ... anyone around here old enough to remember that?)Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2021-05-06, 03:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
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- Tokyo
- Gender
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2021-05-06, 06:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2020
- Location
- Right behind you
Re: Is Durkon going to become (or already is) an apostate?
Personally, I've always liked the idea of Redcloak ascending as a new goblin god. I mean, the Dark One ascended as a mortal unifier of goblinkind against a hostile world, who was named by a defining visual characteristic after his true name was lost to the ages. Sound familiar?
And it'd make a nice juxtaposition if Redcloak somehow ends up as a good god: an evil mortal ascending as a good god in the goblin pantheon, opposed to the Dark One who seems to have been a reasonably good mortal if what we know about him is true, but arose as an evil god after years of slaughter.Last edited by Taevyr; 2021-05-06 at 06:37 PM.
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2021-05-06, 07:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2018
- Gender
Re: Is Durkon going to become (or already is) an apostate?
The idea that Redcloak would ascend to godhood has always struck me as spitting in the face of the message with him. Fundamentally, he's doing all of this so he can say "it was worth it, and I didn't kill my little brother for nothing", the story isn't going to validate him by going "and then he became a literal god".
That's before getting into how it really doesn't seem like the conditions are right for him to rise to godhood to begin with. Or at least, not in the time frame that this story would require it.Last edited by Rrmcklin; 2021-05-06 at 07:21 PM.
I'd just like to point out that saying that something unsupported is the case unless someone else can prove that it is not is an utter failure of logic. - Kish
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2021-05-06, 07:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2004
- Location
Re: Is Durkon going to become (or already is) an apostate?
If Durkon can someone reconcile with Thor after understanding the details of the bet with Hela, this is really small potatoes.
Yes, he was disappointed with the answer he got. But it seems to be an honest answer, and the main problem is the gods as a whole and Fenris in particular, not Thor doing something specific wrong.I owe Peelee 5 Quatloos. But I am going double or nothing that Durkon will be casting 8th level spells at the big finale.
I bet Goblin_Priest 5 quatloos that Xykon does not know RC has the phylactery at this point in the tale (#1139).
Using my Bardic skills I see the fate of Belkar...so close!
Using my Bardic skills I see the fate of goblinkind!
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2021-05-06, 08:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2019
- Location
- Somewhere over th rainbow