[3.5] Help With Cleric Character

[Thurbane]

So, need help with a character concept.

I want a Cleric-based character, with as many of the following domains as I can get: Destruction, Fury, Hatred, Retribution, Spite and Wrath (AFAIK, no deity offers all, or even most, of these domains).

For RP reasons, I'd prefer this to be a Cleric who worships an ideal (anger/revenge/retribution), rather than worshiping a deity. To make things more difficult, I'd rather not be evil, if possible. LN or CN is fine.

The easiest methods to get extra domains (Contemplative, Divine Disciple etc.) involve worshiping a specific deity.

Would Planar Touchstone (Catalogues of Enlightenment) help?

If I must worship a deity, would Heretic of the Faith help?

Sources: all official 3.5 and 3.0 sources, preferably no Dragon or Dungeon magazine. No PF, 3rd party or home-brew.

Cheers - T

[Railak]

The only thing I've found is the sovereign speaker to gain access to a bunch of domains easily. Though all of them are generally good aligned, as the sovereign host is a group of good god's in Eberron. If Heretic of the Faith allowed you to change more than 1 domain it would work. I've been looking for a Sovereign speaker for the Dark Six, which are the counter side of the sovereign. But there doesn't seem to be one..

[Anthrowhale]

You can use Contemplative to have 4 domains of your choice while worshiping an ideal according to:

... other times a character can choose from any domains offered by his deity (or can choose any domain if he doesn't worship a specific god).

and

Must have had direct contact with ... an enlightened being embodying the highest principles of an alignment..."

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

That's 6 domains:

Cleric 1 gets 2.
Divine Disciple 4 (PGtF) gets 1, requires 4th level spells.
Contemplative 6 (CD) gets 2, requires 13 ranks in a skill.
Divine Crusader 1 (CD) gets 1, but doesn't add it to Cleric, need to worship a deity, requires BAB +7.
Divine Agent 1 (MotP) gets 1, but strict RAW you must worship a specific deity, requires BAB +4. Edit: It's a half-caster and doesn't advance casting at the 1st level.


So start out worshipping a deity but swap to an ideal after Divine Agent, and go Cleric 7/ Divine Agent 1/ Divine Disciple 4/ Contemplative 6, and you've got all six domains at ECL 18.

[Beni-Kujaku]

I concur with Sovereign Speaker. Plus, it necessitates that you favor none of the deities, so you can not be good (fluff: "I understand and agree with most of their concepts, but not with their idea of good, so I worship them, but I really only worship the [whatever concept your character finds important] part of them). That said, litterally none of your domains are a part of the Sovereign Host, and you would have to homebrew a Sovereign Speaker class for the Dark Six (who have Wrath, Destruction, Retribution and Hatred).

If you can't, there is the Contemplative (Complete Divine), who allows you to get another domain, or even 2 at high level (just find a representation of your alignment instead of a servant of your deity). Planar Touchstone works, if you can get access to Mechanus.


Also, a link to one of your own messages ^^:

https://forums.giantitp.com/showsing...32&postcount=4

Divine Disciple 4 (PGtF) gets 1, requires 4th level spells.
Divine Crusader 1 (CD) gets 1, but doesn't add it to Cleric, need to worship a deity, requires BAB +7.
Divine Agent 1 (MotP) gets 1, but strict RAW you must worship a specific deity, requires BAB +4. Edit: It's a half-caster and doesn't advance casting at the 1st level.

So start out worshipping a deity but swap to an ideal after Divine Agent, and go Cleric 7/ Divine Agent 1/ Divine Disciple 4/ Contemplative 6, and you've got all six domains at ECL 18.

Divine Disciple needs you to have a patron deity, and it must be the "deity of which you're the disciple". I don't think that matches well with a character who doesn't want to worship a deity. And the domain granted by both divine agent and divine disciple must be among the domains granted by the deity. Since there is no deity granting 3 of the domain Thurbane is looking for, let alone 4, these 2 classes will not help him much. Except if you allow to switch freely and go from ideal to god to ideal, but I think that may lead to some problems RP-wise.

[Biggus]

I take it this is non-epic? Only the Bonus Domain epic feat can be taken multiple times if it is.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Divine Disciple needs you to have a patron deity, and it must be the "deity of which you're the disciple". I don't think that matches well with a character who doesn't want to worship a deity. And the domain granted by both divine agent and divine disciple must be among the domains granted by the deity. Since there is no deity granting 3 of the domain Thurbane is looking for, let alone 4, these 2 classes will not help him much. Except if you allow to switch freely and go from ideal to god to ideal, but I think that may lead to some problems RP-wise.

Divine Disciple is from PGtF, a setting which doesn't allow clerics to serve an ideal. So taken in context that portion is specific to that setting, and when using it outside the Forgotten Realms it no longer has that limitation.

[Zombulian]

Sovereign Speaker has been mentioned several times, but something to note is that the PrC has no alignment restriction, and the book that it’s from, Faiths of Eberron, does explicitly state that the SH used to include the Dark Six before a theological schism. You could then arguably (maybe add in Heretic of the Faith for RP help) be a member of the older faith system that was more holistic.

[Troacctid]

Well, if you dip into magazines, Evangelist is a variant cleric that casts spontaneously and gets an extra domain every five levels.

I have a spreadsheet of deities in my signature. Maybe you can find a good pantheon.

Sovereign Speaker has been mentioned several times, but something to note is that the PrC has no alignment restriction, and the book that it’s from, Faiths of Eberron, does explicitly state that the SH used to include the Dark Six before a theological schism. You could then arguably (maybe add in Heretic of the Faith for RP help) be a member of the older faith system that was more holistic.

Eberron deities all explicitly have no alignment requirements for their clerics.

[Elves]

I Divine Disciple needs you to have a patron deity, and it must be the "deity of which you're the disciple". I don't think that matches well with a character who doesn't want to worship a deity.

Cleric class says:

If a cleric is not devoted to a particular deity, he still selects two domains to represent his spiritual inclinations and abilities. The restriction on alignment domains still applies.

Being devoted to multiple patron deities technically counts as "not devoted to a particular deity".

[Thurbane]

Thanks for the fedback.

So, if Contemplative is accessible to a worshiper of an ideal, that's an easy way to get two extra domains.

If I use Cloistered Cleric as the base, I could always use the Substitute Domain spell to swap out Knowledge for one of the six I want, for a few days at a time.

Kind of feels weird to be serving an ideal of anger/revenge/retribution, but be a scholarly type though.

Also, both Cloistered Cleric and Contemplative are poor BAB, and I had imagined this as more of a melee type. I guess Persisted Divine Power is always an option.

[Anthrowhale]

If I use Cloistered Cleric as the base, I could always use the Substitute Domain spell to swap out Knowledge for one of the six I want, for a few days at a time.

Substitute Domain requires a deity, unfortunately.

[Thurbane]

Substitute Domain requires a deity, unfortunately.

Well, that's frustrating.

[bean illus]

I don't think that there is a way to do what you're asking. There are ways to do almost what you're asking. It might be a little easier if we know exactly what you are trying to get.

Are you trying to get 9th level spells from all these domains, or wand access? Or the domain powers? Would you rather have more domains, or remain a cleric of an ideal?

I asked Marvin, and found a few deities that have potential.
Is there anything that keeps heritic of the faith from stacking?

You can get all 7 domains by 15th level, with a deity. I only see 4 domains with an ideal.

Cloistered Cleric, deity with 2 domains.
Human feat: Favored
1. Primary contact
3. Heretic of the Faith - knowledge domain to ideal domain
5. Frog's Fane - skill focus religion
6. Divine Oracle: Heretic of the Faith to ideal domain
9. Planar Touchstone - 5th ideal domain
10. Contemplative: 6th ideal domain

That's all 6 by 10th, but you need a deity. It's probably wrong, because i didn't really check it.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Not exactly what you're looking for, but a single-class Ardent gets six mantles at 15th level. I know there aren't equivalent mantles for all the domains you want, but between reflavoring, homebrew, and simply converting those to psionic versions, you can accomplish the same thing. Speaking of homebrew, a spontaneous divine spellcasting version of Ardent that learns domains instead of mantles and picks spells known from those domains would probably be a decent class.

[tiercel]

If open to a deity, this practically seems to scream “St. Cuthbert.” He packs at least several of the desired domains, does the whole LN/LG thing, and of course the cudgel which never forgets is almost a reason all by itself to play Judge Dredd, FRP style :P

But yeah, partly this is going to be what do you want the character to do, thematically and by crunch? (RP, there’s presumably a pretty big difference between a CN vigilante and an LN justiciar, and are we looking for melee optimization primarily?)

[Thurbane]

I don't think that there is a way to do what you're asking. There are ways to do almost what you're asking. It might be a little easier if we know exactly what you are trying to get.

Are you trying to get 9th level spells from all these domains, or wand access? Or the domain powers? Would you rather have more domains, or remain a cleric of an ideal?

I guess I'm looking to have as many of the domains as possible in the first post, 9th level spells and domain powers. Being competent at melee would be a bonus.

If I don't end up with all of the domains, I would be perfectly happy with as many as I can get.

If open to a deity, this practically seems to scream “St. Cuthbert.” He packs at least several of the desired domains, does the whole LN/LG thing, and of course the cudgel which never forgets is almost a reason all by itself to play Judge Dredd, FRP style :P

But yeah, partly this is going to be what do you want the character to do, thematically and by crunch? (RP, there’s presumably a pretty big difference between a CN vigilante and an LN justiciar, and are we looking for melee optimization primarily?)

If having a deity made things easier, St Cuthbert is one of my faves.

[bean illus]

I guess I'm looking to have as many of the domains as possible in the first post, 9th level spells and domain powers. Being competent at melee would be a bonus.

If I don't end up with all of the domains, I would be perfectly happy with as many as I can get.



If having a deity made things easier, St Cuthbert is one of my faves.

If you are satisfied with 5 domains, then you can remain a cleric of ideals, and leave most of your feats open.

Contemplative and planar touchstone make 4 domains at 11th level, and 5 domains at 16th. Meanwhile you're free of alignment restrictions/ etc, and are free to pick up oracle, or maybe travel, or magic.

Five easy peasy domains, totally legit.
Of course if you take Cuthbert, you can get ... 8 domains? Add planar touchstone and substitute domain for versatility.

Or, just stack heretic of the faith for specific domain access, but again with a deity.

My advice?
Just choose 5 domains, and remain free of deities. It cost one feat, and the rest of the character is open. Race, feats, alignment, story, all open.