Scrying isn't blocked. (spoilers)

[Telvos]

Haley Starshine isn't her real name, I bet. My guess is that her father is a bit more important than she'd like people to know; as a result, she's using an alias.

Just a theory. It would explain the failed scrying.

Edit: It may also be worth noting that she still has a secret she didn't reveal (check the comic where her and elan are eating dinner together; I forget the comic number.)

[Tre of the Wood]

That's actually a good thought. By the way, its comic #309

[the_tick_rules]

hmm, it's possible.

[Xastion]

It's a possibility, but I would imagine that they've tried using Belkar's name as well and I can't see that both would have false names.

[Fenrirs Ragnarok]

I think that the "cloister" spell is probably at work. My guess is that it's removed Azure City in its entirety from being scryed.

[PlasticSoldier]

It's a possibility, but I would imagine that they've tried using Belkar's name as well and I can't see that both would have false names.

Well Belkar might be an alias to try to avoid every Justice System in the world from scrying him. Assuming he's that smart. Also he could have some cutesy halfling name that he was embarrassed about. But I'm just being devil's advocate. Fenrirs is definately right.

[Chronos]

Except that her father is known as Ian Starshine, so she's not exactly hiding any connection to him.

[Maratanos]

Could be inverse dramatic irony. The characters know Ian Starshine as someone important but we don't.

[Lord_Butters_I]

{Scrubbed}

[holywhippet]

Well Belkar might be an alias to try to avoid every Justice System in the world from scrying him. Assuming he's that smart. Also he could have some cutesy halfling name that he was embarrassed about. But I'm just being devil's advocate. Fenrirs is definately right.

An alias so good that even heaven isn't aware it's an alias? The deva interviewing Roy did state it as his name along with some AKAs.

[Marelt Ekiran]

Well, we have seen an earlier example that in the laws of scrying, an adopted name becomes the active name.

Minor SoD spoilers...

Spoiler

Show

"Xykon" is not Xykon's real name... he adopted that name for himself when he was a teenager (his real name is never mentioned). However, when Eugene asked the Oracle of Sunken Valley the question: "Who was the sorcerer who killed my master?", the answer was: "His name is Xykon".
Therefore, even if Haley's real name is something else, she has used the name "Haley Starshine" for so long now that a scrying spell should answer to it.

[Porthos]

Just so people can see it with their own eyes....

Ian Starshine is explicitly referred to by name in this comic.

And the Celestia Deva listed a bunch of aliases for Belkar, so why wouldn't she list his real name, if Belkar was also an alias?

Let's not over analyze this. Cloister is responsible for the lack of contact. It really is that simple.

[Kish]

Let's not over analyze this. Cloister is responsible for the lack of contact. It really is that simple.

Thank you.

[evileeyore]

[Scrubbed]

That is really damn annoying. You could try actually having a conversation with people or just skip the thread if you think its worth so little of your time.

Or maybe offer actual counter-points like the decent, intelligent, and respectable posters in these forums.

[David Argall]

We have here two highly skilled professionals. They shouldn't overlook the chance that they had the name wrong. Of course, we are comedy, and the professional who makes a grade school mistake is often good for a laugh, but even so...

[Soups]

[Scrubbed][/SIZE]

You may be horribly off topic, but that was so full of win. But it isn't This

[Setra]

Just so people can see it with their own eyes....

Ian Starshine is explicitly referred to by name in this comic.

And her first name isn't Haley?

Spoiler

Show

"Xykon" is not Xykon's real name... he adopted that name for himself when he was a teenager (his real name is never mentioned). However, when Eugene asked the Oracle of Sunken Valley the question: "Who was the sorcerer who killed my master?", the answer was: "His name is Xykon".
Therefore, even if Haley's real name is something else, she has used the name "Haley Starshine" for so long now that a scrying spell should answer to it.

Spoiler

Show

What if she still does not consider Haley her actual name

[heroe_de_leyenda]

Inspite all the nonsense on this thread, it make me think of something...

There are 3 (THREE) possibilities with Belkar and Haley. After 4 months of Scrying atempts:

a) They are dead, unlikely.

b) They are in another plane, very unlikely

c) They are prisoners in Azure city, otherwise, they would have left Cloystered Azure city by now. Why are they keeping them alive? to open the gates, maybe?

[boomwolf]

It's a possibility, but I would imagine that they've tried using Belkar's name as well and I can't see that both would have false names.

Considering its V that is scrying, I would say they didnt try belkar's name.

[David Argall]

There are 3 (THREE) possibilities with Belkar and Haley. After 4 months of Scrying atempts:

a) They are dead, unlikely.

b) They are in another plane, very unlikely

c) They are prisoners in Azure city, otherwise, they would have left Cloystered Azure city by now. Why are they keeping them alive? to open the gates, maybe?

You missed the most likely, d)

Spoiler

Show

There is no way out of Azure City. The spell prevents all exit and entry. Haley and Belkar are still hiding out and nobody knows they are there.

There are also e) & f).

[Fuzzy_Juan]

I thought it was prett self explanitory when Xykon used 'cloister' and said Azure city is off the grid...Pretty much meaning that noone could scry in or out, likely noone can teleport out either.

More than likely a giant time/space anchor that also blocks scrying and all extradimensional influence. Probably no summons, dimension door, teleports, sending spells, or divination within the bounds of the effected area. That is my guess. Unknown if they can scry or teleport out...also, the teleporting is a guess, but just as likely, otherwise you'd think that they would have sent in a scout a long time ago.

It is also possible, though semi-unlikely that the spell places the entire city inside a pocket dimension and that noone can physically leave either. It would help to explain why the hell Haley and Belkar didn't just leave into the wild months ago and get out of the scrying blackout.

[FujinAkari]

This thread seems to be assuming that Scrying upon someone will fail if that person's proper name isn't used... but this doesn't seem to be supported by the actual rules:

You can see and hear some creature, which may be at any distance. If the subject succeeds on a Will save, the scrying attempt simply fails. The difficulty of the save depends on how well you know the subject and what sort of physical connection (if any) you have to that creature. Furthermore, if the subject is on another plane, it gets a +5 bonus on its Will save.

If the save fails, you can see and hear the subject and the subject’s immediate surroundings (approximately 10 feet in all directions of the subject). If the subject moves, the sensor follows at a speed of up to 150 feet.

As with all divination (scrying) spells, the sensor has your full visual acuity, including any magical effects. In addition, the following spells have a 5% chance per caster level of operating through the sensor: detect chaos, detect evil, detect good, detect law, detect magic, and message.

If the save succeeds, you can’t attempt to scry on that subject again for at least 24 hours.

Notice that the rules make absolutely no mention of having to know the subject's birthname, or even having to identify them by name at all.

[Gez]

Haley Starshine isn't her real name, I bet.

This wouldn't do anything on Scry's magic. There is no "true name" mechanics in D&D, whether you scry on the Earl of Dragonshire, on Knight Wilfred, on Fred Williams, or on Blotto the Drinking Clown is of no consequence as long as all these names have been worn by the same person. (In this case, a peasant named Fred who started traveling, became a bard with a drinking problem, started really adventuring, cleaned up his act once he had reached a level which gave him real responsibilities, eventually became knighted after a particular act of bravery and finished his career after having been rewarded by earldom.)

Scrying isn't entering someone's national security number in a machine, it's magic that works with familiarity. The more familiar you are on someone or something, the more likely the spell will work. Vaarsuvius knows Haley Starshine as Haley Starshine, has knew her as such for a long time, and they have worked together days and nights for said long time. The spell doesn't fail because V. "doesn't really know Haley", the spell fails because Xykon used a cloister spell that made Azure City "officially off the grid."


If Haley's charred corpse had been found just after we heard Xykon casting a spell called "enhanced fireball of fiery doom" upon her, some people would conclude that no, she didn't fail her Reflex save and even half damage was enough to toast her; no, instead what happened was just a case of spontaneous combustion because she's a half-fire elemental and this kind of accident happens or something.

[Rad]

If Haley's charred corpse had been found just after we heard Xykon casting a spell called "enhanced fireball of fiery doom" upon her, some people would conclude that no, she didn't fail her Reflex save and even half damage was enough to toast her; no, instead what happened was just a case of spontaneous combustion because she's a half-fire elemental and this kind of accident happens or something.

Haley has Evasion, so no half damage.

Back on topic; maybe Haley is going around with a big sign with "404 not found" written o it to cover herself.
but I'd rather bet that it's the cloister spell. And, as said, scry does not need the right name to function.

[Gez]

Haley has Evasion, so no half damage.

Evasion is no damage on success, full damage on fail, but Improved Evasion is no damage on success, half damage on fail. Imp. Ev. is what I was referring to when I said half damage was enough. While she may not have it, I do think it's something Haley would want.

[SnowballMan]

Let's not over analyze this. Cloister is responsible for the lack of contact. It really is that simple.

Ah, but you forget. This is a forum, nothing is that simple.

Notice that the rules make absolutely no mention of having to know the subject's birthname, or even having to identify them by name at all.

The rules for the standard Scrying spell may say nothing about a person's name, but the error page for "Vaarsuvious' Enhanced Scrying" did state that you had to say the person's name aloud and to pronounce it correctly.

And to add to the naming game, if V had wanted to circumvent not being blocked because it wasn't specified, then the spell should not have mentioned Scrying. If the Cloister spell states that it blocks all forms of Scrying then of course the new spell is still doomed to failure. In fact, Elan would have been particularly helpful here in naming the spell. What wizard would specifically block a spell called "V's Lookytype Spell of Finding My Haley"?

[Iranon]

When Xykon tried to scry unsuccessfully into a warded area, he got a vey different message in comic 415. Maybe it's just a question of the medium, and both were (rather good) throwaway jokes that might not require continuity, but I think it's worth bearing in mind.

Actually, Rad might have made a very good: Haley is a rogue, and one who likes her privacy even outside professional concerns. Maybe she went to the trouble of securing her person from scrying attempts. Trying for Belkar might indeed work...

[RandomLogic]

I think the answer is a little simpler than that.

When Roy is fighting Xykon on the dragon, Xykon states that he is "what seven, eight, more levels higher than you"

So. Any spell Xykon would cast to stop scrying would be considerably more powerful than any spell V would cast to try to scry. So, throwing some opposing magery checks in there. I'm pretty sure Xykon still comes out ahead.

[Setra]

I think the answer is a little simpler than that.

When Roy is fighting Xykon on the dragon, Xykon states that he is "what seven, eight, more levels higher than you"

So. Any spell Xykon would cast to stop scrying would be considerably more powerful than any spell V would cast to try to scry. So, throwing some opposing magery checks in there. I'm pretty sure Xykon still comes out ahead.

V might be able to roll high enough to bypass it... Or perhaps there is no roll involved.

[Dalboz of Gurth]

You may be horribly off topic, but that was so full of win. But it isn't This

No, the link you provided is WIN!

Any link that uses my hero Mighty Mouse is a winning link

Spoiler

Show