Questionable Content XVII: "My Brain Is Trash And I Live On The Internet"

[Delicious Taffy]

Maybe her keys are behind the henweigh.

I know I'm gonna out myself as a non-native here, but what's a henweigh?

[The Glyphstone]

I know I'm gonna out myself as a non-native here, but what's a henweigh?

About 4-6 pounds usually.

[Iruka]

About 4-6 pounds usually.

So it is one of those "imperial units"? But also a physical object?

[tyckspoon]

So it is one of those "imperial units"? But also a physical object?

[Foghorn Leghorn]It's a joke, son, a joke![/Foghorn]

This is one of a variety of jokes based on trying to get somebody to ask you what an unfamiliar phrase is, to which you give a completely mundane answer. In this case you, the victim, give the desired response, "What's a henweigh?" The joke teller than answers your question with the approximate weight of a female chicken, because you asked them 'How much does a hen weigh?'

[Manga Shoggoth]

OK. That's it.

"What's a Grecian urn?"

Spoiler

Show

"About six drachmas an hour."

And the Goon Show take:

Moriarty: What's a Grecian urn?

Spoiler

Show

Grytpype: It's a vase made by Greeks for carrying liquids.
Moriarty: I didn't expect that answer.
Grytpype: Neither did quite a few smart-alec listeners

[Willie the Duck]

I didn't realize we were going for ones that relied on homophone-like effects. If I'd known, I'd have brought my dikfer.

[Traab]

I didn't realize we were going for ones that relied on homophone-like effects. If I'd know, I'd have brought my dikfer.

I dont know why you think we are talking about pre internet versions of grinder. But you are bringing the proper tool for it.

[DavidSh]

I dont know why you think we are talking about pre internet versions of grinder. But you are bringing the proper tool for it.

I'll admit I'm ancient.

What's "grinder"? Is it anything like a submarine?

[Traab]

I'll admit I'm ancient.

What's "grinder"? Is it anything like a submarine?

Real heroes know what it is at least. :p

Spoiler: in case you were serious

Show

its a dating app for gay guys (I think just gay guys, not certain)

[Lapak]

I'll admit I'm ancient.

What's "grinder"? Is it anything like a submarine?

I mean, when you're right, you're right. Grindr is the app; grinder is the western CT / southeastern NY term for the a submarine/hero/etc sandwich.

(Or was, at least, back when I lived there. Then I moved to a part of rural Maine where all sandwiches in that format, regardless of filling, were interchangeably called 'Italian' sandwiches in the same way that you might call any type of soda/pop a Coke in the South. Food terms are weird.)

[Morquard]

Hold on a second. Roko - ROKO - who freaks out when she learns anything weird about her body, intentially turns off her facial muscles?

[Wraith]

That kind of makes sense. When she found out that she could change her own colour palette, she seemed to enjoy it and relax BECAUSE it was her doing the controlling.

Her freak-outs were partially due to her body doing things that she didn't know about, which forced her to sit and read her manual. Now that she has read her manual and can control the things her body does, she has less to freak out about. It's not an immediate cure, but I can certainly see his being part of her growth and recovery by experimenting with her settings. "My face has stopped working because I TOLD it to stop working" is a weird sentence to type, but in context it's probably way more comforting than it happening of its own accord.

I'm more confused by people making fun of Yay for being 2 years old. Momo was about 2 years and 8 months just before she got her new chassis, which happened about 1 year ago in-comic. The Singularity only happened about 14 months ago, for reference (comic 1777), so they're still a part of the 'old' generation of AIs, and Yay has at least 4 other bodies so technically they have 10 years worth of shared experiences to draw upon which makes them one of the most experienced and learned of AIs.... Or at least it would, in another comic

Maybe Commander Data was right. 0.68 seconds - for an android, that is nearly eternity!

[Durazno]

Is that a Ctrl+Alt+Del mouth?

Oh, judging from the alt text, it's supposed to evoke Family Guy. I can see it.

[Kish]

Momo presents as "young," both in the way she acts and in the chassis she wears; she's gone from a chibi chassis to a teenage-appearing chassis. Yay plays up their "ancient eldritch horror" thing, is younger than Momo (barely over half Momo's age actually if you're right about the time frame since Momo switched chassis), is (as Roko pointed out) actually conspicuously immature in the way they act, and triggers a relative of the Streisand effect by freaking out when anyone observes that they are young and/or immature.

And "I've been spending all that time in five bodies, that means I really count as ten years old!" is an argument that would get Yay laughed at more--deservedly--if they made it, so apparently that's "would in a poorer-quality comic."

[Mechalich]

Maybe Commander Data was right. 0.68 seconds - for an android, that is nearly eternity!

It's not really a joke. The speed of thought is not merely metaphor, it's an actual quantifiable measure (though it varies in humans for different kinds of thoughts because different nerve types transmit information at different rates.

While normal QC AIs apparently 'think' at similar speeds to humans because that's all the spare processing power they possess - Momo explained that the average AI uses the overwhelming majority of their 'brain' to...run their brain (this is less unreasonable than it might sound, it's kind of like how an older, weaker, computer might spend most of its processor power just to run the Windows OS). Yay, by contrast, thinks at a rate that is many, many times more rapid than a human does, probably 1000X at an absolute minimum. At that rate, for every second that passes to a human being Yay subjectively experiences 16 and a half minutes.

Now, there's obviously some loss here. While Yay can presumably browse the internet or learn game theory or absorb remote sensing data or any of the things really powerful computers already do at insane speeds, they can only interact with others a roughly equivalent to the speeds of those persons (otherwise there's vast oceans of dead time between each line of an exchange, etc.). Dividing their consciousness across multiple bodies is actually a highly functional adaptive measure, because it slows the operation of each body down to something close to that of everyone else.

Momo presents as "young," both in the way she acts and in the chassis she wears; she's gone from a chibi chassis to a teenage-appearing chassis. Yay plays up their "ancient eldritch horror" thing, is younger than Momo (barely over half Momo's age actually if you're right about the time frame since Momo switched chassis), is (as Roko pointed out) actually conspicuously immature in the way they act, and triggers a relative of the Streisand effect by freaking out when anyone observes that they are young and/or immature.

And "I've been spending all that time in five bodies, that means I really count as ten years old!" is an argument that would get Yay laughed at more--deservedly--if they made it, so apparently that's "would in a poorer-quality comic."

I suspect people laugh at Yay to hide their fear. Yay is terrifying, they are a Culture Mind that has been transposed into a 21st century Earth that is only slightly more advanced than our own, technologically. Cthulhu would kill to have that kind of mismatch going for it.

[Wraith]

And "I've been spending all that time in five bodies, that means I really count as ten years old!" is an argument that would get Yay laughed at more--deservedly--if they made it, so apparently that's "would in a poorer-quality comic."

I won't argue that Yay hasn't apparently settled into the personality of a grumpy 16 year old because they evidently have, but I'm curious as to why you say this?

She's 2 years old, and has 5 bodies - over those 2 years she has had ~5 times as many experiences and points of perception as any single-bodied person. Admittedly a lot of them may overlap - two bodies spending the day sat and playing with the dogs aren't going to be too dissimilar - but conversely it's been shown that they have one body out organising real estate deals while at the same time another provides forensic data to the police, another comments on AI neural structure development and a fourth files suitable paperwork to set up a business with an accountant. Implicitly, simultaneously.

Yay is 2 years old, but they apparently do have knowledge and expertise way in advance of that - Pintsize is one of the oldest AIs in the comic, and he couldn't do any of that stuff. "I count as ten years old" is a stretch, sure, but they have literally experienced several of their own lifetimes worth of events, and what is that if not cumulative chances to expand their personality not unlike ageing?

The alternative that I can think of goes back to something that Clinton said about young AIs - that they are born into a crèche and spend some time their socialising and getting used to existing while their personality develops until the point that they are able to inhabit a body and enter the real world - an accelerated childhood, of sorts. In which case, Yay has had the same mentality since she emerged, but then so has Roko, Momo and Melon - they all codified their personalities in the crèche and then entered the world as 'adults'. Again, making fun of Yay for being 'young' doesn't make sense, as the age of their consciousness doesn't really make any difference compared to the comparative maturity of their consciousness, in which case, Melon and Lemon are way 'younger' than Yay.

Or Jeph just decided that he didn't want Spookybot to be spooky any more and has retcon'd away all the financial expertise and torture and paralysing brains stuff and that's as much of an explanation as we're going to get.

[Traab]

I look at it as a misunderstanding in scale. Like was said before with the Data quote, that two years means something very different to an Ai, and something even MORE different to an AI as advanced as Yay. A computer built in 1990 given 2 years to run through as many processes and programs as possible, versus a computer built in 2021 given the same two years, you are going to have an exponential increase in just how much the newer model can do in those years. Think of a regular person versus the Flash. How much more could he do in 2 years than you? The man has feats where his reaction and comprehension time is in the attosecond range. He has evacuated entire cities caught in mid nuke. You cant say to him, "Oh you have only been active for two years? How silly, you cant possibly have experienced much in such a short time frame" And look anything other than stupid. Now as for maturity, thats another issue entirely. A lot of that is built through social interactions. And until very recently, Yay has had little to no social interactions beyond their pet dog. So yes, yay is very immature despite their experiential age and power. So chronologically young, maturity young, experience knowledge power and the ability to wield it? WAY advanced.

[Rodin]

I look at it as a misunderstanding in scale. Like was said before with the Data quote, that two years means something very different to an Ai, and something even MORE different to an AI as advanced as Yay. A computer built in 1990 given 2 years to run through as many processes and programs as possible, versus a computer built in 2021 given the same two years, you are going to have an exponential increase in just how much the newer model can do in those years. Think of a regular person versus the Flash. How much more could he do in 2 years than you? The man has feats where his reaction and comprehension time is in the attosecond range. He has evacuated entire cities caught in mid nuke. You cant say to him, "Oh you have only been active for two years? How silly, you cant possibly have experienced much in such a short time frame" And look anything other than stupid. Now as for maturity, thats another issue entirely. A lot of that is built through social interactions. And until very recently, Yay has had little to no social interactions beyond their pet dog. So yes, yay is very immature despite their experiential age and power. So chronologically young, maturity young, experience knowledge power and the ability to wield it? WAY advanced.

That complexity is what kills the joke for me. Why is 2 years supposed to be hilariously young? Momo at that age (or only slightly older) was vastly more mature than Marigold who's in her early-mid 20's. When it comes to being a responsible adult, Momo may actually be THE most mature and responsible person in the cast. So why is Yay being "only" 2 years old a burn? Is Jeph intending it to be taken the other way? Wow, Yay is two years old, they should be more mature than they are?

It's an arbitrary number thrown against a set of variables that can differ hugely, and because AIs are so different from humans we have no reference point to make the joke funny. If someone is 15 and thinks they're mature, that's funny. If somebody is 30+ and is still very immature, that's funny. Where are the breakpoints for AIs? And how do the breakpoints compare between AIs and an eldritch-like super AI that is intelligent beyond our comprehension?

That's without getting into how turning the super-AI into an irresponsible child utterly destroys their introduction, but that's ground we've been over a dozen times before.

[Traab]

That complexity is what kills the joke for me. Why is 2 years supposed to be hilariously young? Momo at that age (or only slightly older) was vastly more mature than Marigold who's in her early-mid 20's. When it comes to being a responsible adult, Momo may actually be THE most mature and responsible person in the cast. So why is Yay being "only" 2 years old a burn? Is Jeph intending it to be taken the other way? Wow, Yay is two years old, they should be more mature than they are?

It's an arbitrary number thrown against a set of variables that can differ hugely, and because AIs are so different from humans we have no reference point to make the joke funny. If someone is 15 and thinks they're mature, that's funny. If somebody is 30+ and is still very immature, that's funny. Where are the breakpoints for AIs? And how do the breakpoints compare between AIs and an eldritch-like super AI that is intelligent beyond our comprehension?

That's without getting into how turning the super-AI into an irresponsible child utterly destroys their introduction, but that's ground we've been over a dozen times before.

Its probably meant as a bit of gap moe because it SOUNDS so cute and childish to say Yay is 2 years old, and she is supposed to be this big scary super ai. And too be fair she IS this big scary super ai.

[halfeye]

It's not really a joke. The speed of thought is not merely metaphor, it's an actual quantifiable measure (though it varies in humans for different kinds of thoughts because different nerve types transmit information at different rates.

This is almost just plain wrong.

Vertebrate brains are massively parallel and change their organisation from second to second. The best graphics cards just can't keep up, we know that because better graphics cards are being made now than last year, and next year's will be better still.

The graphics cards that can't keep up, are what is being used for bitcoin mining, because they are faster than CPUs. Yes neurons are slower than transistors, but they aren't like transistors, and they especially aren't connected like transistors.

[theangelJean]

This is almost just plain wrong.

Vertebrate brains are massively parallel and change their organisation from second to second. The best graphics cards just can't keep up, we know that because better graphics cards are being made now than last year, and next year's will be better still.

The graphics cards that can't keep up, are what is being used for bitcoin mining, because they are faster than CPUs. Yes neurons are slower than transistors, but they aren't like transistors, and they especially aren't connected like transistors.

Umm, what's your measure of "can't keep up" here?

No human brain has ever been tasked with performing the mathematical calculations required to simulate and display the various moving parts in the latest video games in "real" time. Or with mining Bitcoin. Better graphics cards are coming out all the time to better match the complexity of the tasks we are assigning them, not because they are in any way in competition with humans.

(For that matter, no graphics card has ever been tasked with driving a human body.)

[halfeye]

Umm, what's your measure of "can't keep up" here?

I mean, the human visual system can see faults in graphic displays in games in real time, to get them on the current top graphic cards you might have to go to UHD and beyond, but there are still improvments to be made.

[Vinyadan]

I have seen three-week old cars that could run faster than me. I have seen them pretty frequently, to tell the truth.

[theangelJean]

I have seen three-week old cars that could run faster than me. I have seen them pretty frequently, to tell the truth.

I mean, the human visual system can see faults in graphic displays in games in real time, to get them on the current top graphic cards you might have to go to UHD and beyond, but there are still improvments to be made.

I think Vinyadan is giving another example of what I'm trying to say (maybe). We make graphics cards (and cars) because they are tools for performing tasks that we can't do. That doesn't make them better than us, nor does it make us better than them. There's simply not a competition.

If you're trying to make a competition between the human visual system and graphics cards ... It just doesn't work that way. You're saying graphics cards can't fool the human visual system into believing what's displayed is "real"? The human visual system can be fooled by a picture on a piece of paper. Throw 24-48 photographic images per second onto a screen by using film and a shutter system, you've got yourself a virtual reality, no need for a graphics card.

Graphics cards are also perfectly capable of piping such images onto a screen big enough to hold our attention. If you're saying that the eye can tell the difference if you look closely at a certain patch of the screen, that's not a fair comparison because the human visual system doesn't work that way either. It's great at lines, edges and movement, but it only cares about detailed texture in a very small field near the centre. You can only predict to a certain extent where the centre of the visual field is going to be looking at any one time - it's got the rest of the human brain behind it, after all - so some visual media compensates by displaying everything in detail, but most opts to focus on what's important and leave the brain to make up the rest, which it's quite good at.

I should shut up now, because I'm perfectly happy to discuss the actual line between "what we want graphics cards to do" and "what they currently can do", but my point is that the limits of the human visual system aren't part of that competition, and haven't been for a while.

[halfeye]

I think Vinyadan is giving another example of what I'm trying to say (maybe).

I don't.

We make graphics cards (and cars) because they are tools for performing tasks that we can't do. That doesn't make them better than us, nor does it make us better than them.

I am not suggesting that people can make pictures as fast as graphics cards can, we clearly can't.

There's simply not a competition.

This is a mistake. Graphics cards generate images onto screens, which humans take as input, the input is not yet to the point where we can mistake it for the real world, though it is seriously improving.

If you're trying to make a competition between the human visual system and graphics cards ... It just doesn't work that way. You're saying graphics cards can't fool the human visual system into believing what's displayed is "real"? The human visual system can be fooled by a picture on a piece of paper. Throw 24-48 photographic images per second onto a screen by using film and a shutter system, you've got yourself a virtual reality, no need for a graphics card.

Films are not generated in real time. It can take years to make a film, which lasts 2 hours? 3 hours?

Graphics cards are also perfectly capable of piping such images onto a screen big enough to hold our attention. If you're saying that the eye can tell the difference if you look closely at a certain patch of the screen, that's not a fair comparison because the human visual system doesn't work that way either. It's great at lines, edges and movement, but it only cares about detailed texture in a very small field near the centre. You can only predict to a certain extent where the centre of the visual field is going to be looking at any one time - it's got the rest of the human brain behind it, after all - so some visual media compensates by displaying everything in detail, but most opts to focus on what's important and leave the brain to make up the rest, which it's quite good at.

I should shut up now, because I'm perfectly happy to discuss the actual line between "what we want graphics cards to do" and "what they currently can do", but my point is that the limits of the human visual system aren't part of that competition, and haven't been for a while.

My point on the other hand is that while CPUs are racing toward 5 GHz and 16 threads, for "bang for the buck/watt" GPUs are faster, and even so, while neurons run at about 100 Hz, in aggregate because they are so massively in parallel, neurons are faster than GPUs, and thus also faster than CPUs.

[Vinyadan]

Yes, my point is that we make machines to be better than our bodies at certain things. A shovel shovels better than your hand, a car is faster than your legs, a crane is taller than you. To me, graphics cards don't imitate our eyes, they imitate our hands by drawing images faster than we can. More generally, even when there isn't such a clear comparison, machines are meant to be helpers, like a pulley or a wheel. JJ touched these points in the ending of Alice Grove "All we needed was a strength multiplier", where a machine learns to use a tool for something she couldn't otherwise achieve. And the ending also touches on both machines and people having or needing a purpose.

The problem with emergent AI is that it doesn't seem to have been born for a purpose like typical machines do (in spite of my joke about it being a highly evolved form of sex doll software*). This makes it harder to rate an AI's growth over time, as we would with another machine. On the other hand, it's still a machine, and not comparable to humans. To make an example, for all its power, Yay could arguably be separated from its mighty processors, and Melon be put in its place. Would the result be comparable to High Wisdom Belkar, with a sudden burst of introspection? Or would it be just raging mad Melon, but n times faster, entering wrong apartments with all of her bodies? Woud Yay still be Yay, in a normal chassis? Whatever the answer, it's very alien, as it has been noticed.

JJ probably should to a hard sci-fi side-comic to explain AI stuff, something in the vein of Alice Grove, with a set plot. QC just comes up with too many threads and distractions and I don't expect any satisfying explanation from it, even just because worldbuilding isn't its focus. But a sidestory could benefit it, giving a setting where we know more about all of these characters, which to me seem to float in an ocean of indetermination (unlike early QC, where you had a realistic part and a slapstic part and it was fairly easy to understand how these guys lived).

*but then, isn't that what we all are, in a way?

[Manga Shoggoth]

Ah, and that is why my wife and I have seperate bedrooms. (The waking each other up bit, not the pintsize bit).

And Pintsize is funny again.

[Wildstag]

And Pintsize is funny again.

Enjoy it while it lasts.

[Wraith]

Ah, and that is why my wife and I have separate bedrooms.

Because your wife is an alien pod-creature who springs up in the morning like that and doesn't see a problem with it?

[Manga Shoggoth]

Because your wife is an alien pod-creature who springs up in the morning like that and doesn't see a problem with it?

Naah - I'm the morning person. I get up at 7 and she's dormant most mornings. It was worse when I used to get up at 4-5 in the morning. Our bedtimes are equally misaligned.

Good guess about the pod creature, though...