OOTS #1238 - The Discussion Thread

[greenfunkman]

Also in Panel 1 (strip 1226), under the drawings, the big circular depression in the beanbag is likely the invisible beholder having a rest.

Edit: I suppose the darts in the wall and the childlike drawings are how Sunny practices their telekinesis. They don't look very good at either yet! I wonder if lack of experience will cause Sunny to make an error?

[danielxcutter]

Also in Panel 1 (strip 1226), under the drawings, the big circular depression in the beanbag is likely the invisible beholder having a rest.

Edit: I suppose the darts in the wall and the childlike drawings are how Sunny practices their telekinesis. They don't look very good at either yet! I wonder if lack of experience will cause Sunny to make an error?

Well, mechanically it'd probably just be Sunny blowing an attack roll(beholders actually have pretty crappy attack bonuses; it's just that rays are easy to hit things with), but I can see how the in-universe reason might be that.

[Fyraltari]

Seriously, though, how was Sunny invisible and why aren't they now when Serini still is?

[Riftwolf]

Seriously, though, how was Sunny invisible and why aren't they now when Serini still is?

Does the antimagic eye affect the beholders buffs? Could be Serini had greater invisibility on both of them but the AMF cone backfired onto Sunny.

[silphael]

Wait, is O-Chul officially Pre-epic ? I always thought those 2 were at least a few levels lower than the OotS, meaning a far lower fortitude spell.
And even with an epic poison, would the DC still be high enough to knock out a pre epic fighter ?

Also, Haley took the time to take 20, shouldn't she have seen Mimi ?

[danielxcutter]

Seriously, though, how was Sunny invisible and why aren't they now when Serini still is?

Maybe Serini has Greater Invisibility and Sunny only has normal Invisibility, which wears off when attacking or casting a spell on someone offensively. I'd say "using an AMF cone on someone so your adoptive mom can turn them into Swiss cheese with her poisoned darts" is close enough.

Wait, is O-Chul officially Pre-epic ? I always thought those 2 were at least a few levels lower than the OotS, meaning a far lower fortitude spell.
And even with an epic poison, would the DC still be high enough to knock out a pre epic fighter ?

Also, Haley took the time to take 20, shouldn't she have seen Mimi ?

O-Chul's a bit lower-level than Roy, but has a Con score "in the mid-twenties" or something. And remember, Roy got hit with two darts.

As for the Spot/Search thing, Mimi was hiding off to the side while Haley was inspecting the hole, and I don't think you can take 20 with those anyways.

[silphael]

You totally can take 20 on spot/search checks though.

But yeah, they might now have had time to use books, so Roy might be still under 20 (when under AMF)

[TRH]

She was specifically looking for traps, though, not for anything out of place. And even if she had been searching more broadly, the mimic was probably imitating a protrusion in the wall and would likely have been overlooked anyways.

[Kardwill]

Reviewing it the beholder was foreshadowed.

Panel 1 the pictures have a beholder beside a small person.

Also interesting Serini has access to anti-magic on demand and still thinks Xykon is unbeatable - which might say a lot about how out of depth The Order are.

At the time, I thought those papers pined to the wall were magic diagrams of some sort, but they are child drawings? Okay, that's adorable ^^

[bunsen_h]

Intellectually, I know that there's no real problem, but I have trouble telling my gamer side to shut the hell up when it comes to things like these. And you can't really say that some of these situations wouldn't really work well in an IRL game of D&D.

I suspect that that aspect will work better when you're reading it as a flowing story, rather than a page per week with serious analysis of each.

At the time, I thought those papers pined to the wall were magic diagrams of some sort, but they are child drawings? Okay, that's adorable ^^

Rich's Patreon backers get access to high-resolution versions of the pages, which I gather makes those pictures on the wall a lot more legible.

[MReav]

I'm thinking Elan's Neutralize Poison is going to play a role in getting Roy back in the game.

[RatElemental]

I'm thinking Elan's Neutralize Poison is going to play a role in getting Roy back in the game.

I doubt it, honestly. He can't cast it in the first place right now because of the AMF. It also just prevents the effects of poison from getting worse, Roy is either out because of a direct sleep effect (Drow Poison?) or Int, Wis or Chr drain which would need some kind of restoration effect to fix.

[Yuki Akuma]

I'm thinking Elan's Neutralize Poison is going to play a role in getting Roy back in the game.

It didn't help the first time he used it, why would this be any different?

[TheNecrocomicon]

It didn't help the first time he used it, why would this be any different?

Probably because rule of drama and of interesting story means that events probably won't follow the same course every time. And, if I recall, Neutralize Poison was played as an unusual pick for a bard, which makes it more likely that Serini didn't plan for such wrinkles in her allegedly airtight methods of aggressive turf protection and intruder disposal.

Also, when did he even use it and fail? Elan only picked up the spell as a response after Therkla died and he couldn't do anything to avert it.

But yeah, as RatElemental pointed out, the main reason for failure right now is that everybody in the Order is under an antimagic cone and thus none of them can cast. V can't even try disjuncting it (versus what happened with the ancient black dragon) because they're already inside the area of effect.

Barring some new method, the only people who can hit the flying beholder at range are currently effectively blind due to the ambient darkness, and Serini and Sunny can just dance around outside the range of the still-standing melee fighters and pick everyone off at will. I don't think that's what's going to happen, due to that plan already being spelled out on-screen, but that's how the situation sits until progress is made.

[Linworm]

Reviewing it the beholder was foreshadowed.

Panel 1 the pictures have a beholder beside a small person.

Also interesting Serini has access to anti-magic on demand and still thinks Xykon is unbeatable - which might say a lot about how out of depth The Order are.

Or how much of a defeatist she is. Arguably a coward, as she doesn't wanna rock the boat in any way with Xykon but would rather do his job for him taking out the good guys instead. Can't say I'm particularly fond of the character so far, hope the OotS whoops her ass hard.

[pendell]

Or how much of a defeatist she is. Arguably a coward, as she doesn't wanna rock the boat in any way with Xykon but would rather do his job for him taking out the good guys instead. Can't say I'm particularly fond of the character so far, hope the OotS whoops her ass hard.

Doubt it. What I expect is several panels of back-and-forth we-don't-know-who's-winning until Serini, inevitably, captures them all and drags them back to her lair. There, presumably, O-chul and Lien will get involved somehow. Then they can get back to facing off with Xykon. Possibly with Serini and Sunny, possibly alone.

The Giant didn't spend how many years writing Lien and O-chul into the final book in this position to have no impact on the outcome. The OOTS soundly defeating Serini and continuing on uninterrupted would seem to waste all those preparations. So I expect the real conclusion of this subplot of the story will occur back in Serini's hideout.

Then ... the final showdown, however many strips that is in the future.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[TheNecrocomicon]

Or how much of a defeatist she is. Arguably a coward, as she doesn't wanna rock the boat in any way with Xykon but would rather do his job for him taking out the good guys instead. Can't say I'm particularly fond of the character so far, hope the OotS whoops her ass hard.

It's not like rogues are naturally brave front-line warriors to begin with, and nearly getting blasted to death by Xykon and the subsequent painful recovery have to have been a traumatic experience for her.

Xykon and Redcloak are, meanwhile, making her job of protection easy right now because they keep scouring the false dungeons all over the place and not spotting the real one, which they would really need someone with rogue skills to uncover, and nobody is around who would be inclined to join in the hunt on Team Evil's side, unless the bugbear clan spontaneously produces a reasonably high-level rogue.

That all doesn't, however, excuse refusing to change one's mind when presented with new information which should fundamentally change the situation, which the paladins were unable to convey due to a combination of poor communication and Serini's own biases against them. Now the Order will have a chance to try diplomacy, seeing as Serini is at least willing to banter for a start, rather than just stand off and silently take them all down with her darts while they remain relatively helpless in the darkness and antimagic down on the ground.

There is an opening to talk for the moment, and at least some grounds of common purpose to work from, so I can't imagine that this interaction would go just as badly as Durkon and Minrah with Redcloak did a scant few strips ago. This is not about to be the Book of How Diplomacy Never Works and You Always Have to Fight It Out, after all.

[RatElemental]

Also, when did he even use it and fail? Elan only picked up the spell as a response after Therkla died and he couldn't do anything to avert it.

That would be here.

[JonahFalcon]

Well, at least I know who drew those crayon drawings in #1225.

[Quizatzhaderac]

Ooo, I just had a thought.

Sereni and Oona know each other.

Oona knows about the teleportation trick, but is happy to let Xylkon do they heavy lifting of dungeoneering for her.

Sereni knows Redcloak's story about the plan™ and Gobtoppia from Oona.

[Alex Warlorn]

She's insane.
She thinks Xykon's reign is gonna bring about anything resembling equality? It'll just be equal suffering for those who are exceptional at kissing his big bony butt... and if Xykon does eventually fall... it'll be blood soaked revenge for anyone who was close to him, and anyone who was close to those who were close to him, and a determination to make them suffer. You'll just create NEW inequality!

[Yuki Akuma]

Probably because rule of drama and of interesting story means that events probably won't follow the same course every time. And, if I recall, Neutralize Poison was played as an unusual pick for a bard, which makes it more likely that Serini didn't plan for such wrinkles in her allegedly airtight methods of aggressive turf protection and intruder disposal.

Also, when did he even use it and fail? Elan only picked up the spell as a response after Therkla died and he couldn't do anything to avert it.

But yeah, as RatElemental pointed out, the main reason for failure right now is that everybody in the Order is under an antimagic cone and thus none of them can cast. V can't even try disjuncting it (versus what happened with the ancient black dragon) because they're already inside the area of effect.

Neutralize Poison does nothing about the damage poison has already done. It just stops the secondary damage from happening. Roy won't wake up if Elan casts Neutralize Poison. This is what happened the last time Elan cast it.

V can't cast Disjunction on the Antimagic Field because V doesn't know that spell. They aren't even high enough level to cast it. It's also not a sure thing (you have to roll a caster level check), and might not even work on a Beholder's Antimagic Field, because it's not the spell but a different ability.

[Peelee]

She's insane.
She thinks Xykon's reign is gonna bring about anything resembling equality?

I missed the scene where she said anything even remotely resembling that. Could you link me to it? The closest I know is where she said some folks may be better off under hsi rule, but she has no illusions that a huge number of people will die. She just acknowledges fewer people will die under Xykon's rule than by the destruction of the world.

[Krakius]

It just goes to show that when given the incredibly narrow qualifier of "only appears in one page total, including prequels", the answer will still end up being someone most people forgot/overlooked, because of course they did, the character was in one page.

[TRH]

Ooo, I just had a thought.

Sereni and Oona know each other.

Oona knows about the teleportation trick, but is happy to let Xylkon do they heavy lifting of dungeoneering for her.

Sereni knows Redcloak's story about the plan™ and Gobtoppia from Oona.

I support the Serini and Oona are working together theory, but I doubt Redcloak would entrust Oona with any more information about the Plan than he's given Xykon. She's not particularly loyal to him or TDO, and is a bit too talkative to be told anything really sensitive.

[Last_Riot]

I'm late to the party and it was probably said already, but... wait, what? Rich is using WotC IP? Didn't he make jokes about patented material before? I'm a bit surprised to see a beholder?

[Riftwolf]

Doubt it. What I expect is several panels of back-and-forth we-don't-know-who's-winning until Serini, inevitably, captures them all and drags them back to her lair.

I'm guessing the three minute IFCC window will be invoked to split V from the party (the IFCC did say Vs body would be returned intact, which makes me think its not only invulnerable but can't be moved while V is souljacked) and it'll be up to V and Blackwing to enact a daring rescue.

[The MunchKING]

I'm guessing the three minute IFCC window will be invoked to split V from the party (the IFCC did say Vs body would be returned intact, which makes me think its not only invulnerable but can't be moved while V is souljacked) and it'll be up to V and Blackwing to enact a daring rescue.

Why does someone say that EVERY TIME V gets in trouble? They said they can't/won't save V and indeed that if she dies all of this would be pointless, but they STILL Wouldn't do it.

[elros]

Not a bad plan, but I get the suspicion that Serini might be underestimating the Order's capabilities here.

Also, cue speculation that the beholder is the same one as #32 and it ends up being the "unexpected ally."

Great call by everyone who recognized Sunny from strip #32! Much like the OOTS, I didn't see it coming...

[CorruptUser]

Ok, created an account just to say this much.

Mike from Rusty and Co got into a bit of trouble with WotC over his use of "squid-thingies", and during this time Rich was there to help support him. Not going to get too into the details of the agreement between Mike and WotC, though, but a number of characters and monster races have been a bit of an issue for Mike.

One of the characters that shows up early on in Rusty and Co is a beholder.
A Friendly beholder.
An Orange beholder.
With a Green eye.

I'm calling it, Sunny is the same beholder as the one from Rusty and Co.

OOtS has adopted other comic characters before. Erfworld was once hosted on this site, and when V casted Familicide, among the Black Dragons killed off were the Black Dwagons of Erfworld. So why not? (Also adding this headcanon to TvTropes...)