The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

[halfeye]

It is strange that Morrowind used a similar levelling scheme to Oblivion, but when Oblivion's skills were truncated, it somehow ended up making the levelling different enough that you needed to play the leveling system to avoid getting negligible power-ups when you levelled.

[Keltest]

It is strange that Morrowind used a similar levelling scheme to Oblivion, but when Oblivion's skills were truncated, it somehow ended up making the levelling different enough that you needed to play the leveling system to avoid getting negligible power-ups when you levelled.

The problem wasnt the change to the skill system, it was the change made to the scaling system. With a few exceptions, all the threats in Morrowind were fairly static, as was a lot of the high end loot. If a dungeon was too dangerous for you, you could go out, get a couple levels and better gear, and come back to mostly the same level of challenge. In Oblivion, if you do that, then unless you min-max yourself super hard, then when you come back the dungeon will actually be even harder than before because now the mobs are scaled to a higher level, and you didnt keep pace.

[factotum]

The problem wasnt the change to the skill system, it was the change made to the scaling system. With a few exceptions, all the threats in Morrowind were fairly static, as was a lot of the high end loot.

They weren't *entirely* static in Morrowind. What the game did (as you could see by playing with the editing tools provided) was to assign a *range* of levels to a dungeon and the game would scale within those bounds. So, if you designed a dungeon to be level 10-30, someone going in at level 2 would get stomped on, while going in at level 40 would likely be a cakewalk. Within the levels specified it would try to scale the challenge to your level. What Oblivion did, AFAIK, is to remove the range so that everything was always levelled to you.

[Vianceit]

What do you all think of the rumors about the new elder Scrolls game? What all do you think they might change about it?

[Fyraltari]

What do you all think of the rumors about the new elder Scrolls game? What all do you think they might change about it?

If they don't have a Breton NPC named Dupont manically keeping a journal, we riot.

[Vinyadan]

Are there any new rumors? The only thing similar to TESVI I have heard of is the Avowed announcement, a Skyrim-like by Obsidian.

[mythmonster2]

I don't expect we'll hear anything until after Starfield's out.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

I don't expect we'll hear anything until after Starfield's out.

Yeah I haven't heard anything new either, unless you count the rumors that there is some doubt that it will be available on all consoles. It's still a few years out, and Hammerfell and/or High Rock is still the favorite as far as what region we'll be going to last I heard.

[Lord Raziere]

Are there any new rumors? The only thing similar to TESVI I have heard of is the Avowed announcement, a Skyrim-like by Obsidian.
*snip*

considering Obsidian's track record with making games I like (Kotor 2, New Vegas, Outer Worlds) I think I'm looking forward more to Avowed than ES6.

[Aeson]

They weren't *entirely* static in Morrowind. What the game did (as you could see by playing with the editing tools provided) was to assign a *range* of levels to a dungeon and the game would scale within those bounds. So, if you designed a dungeon to be level 10-30, someone going in at level 2 would get stomped on, while going in at level 40 would likely be a cakewalk. Within the levels specified it would try to scale the challenge to your level. What Oblivion did, AFAIK, is to remove the range so that everything was always levelled to you.

I think you're missing the point. Yes, more dangerous creatures could be spawned in most areas of Morrowind at higher levels, but, firstly, the enemies themselves almost all had static statistics,* and, secondly, depending on where exactly you went you could run into some pretty nasty stuff at low level.** Fjol the Outlaw is an eighth-level NPC Barbarian with 106 health, a Nordic battle-axe, and fur armor whether you encounter him at level 1, level 8, or level 64; similarly for almost every other enemy or enemy type you can encounter in Morrowind. By contrast, pretty much every enemy NPC in Oblivion is level-scaled, and while many of the monster enemies are not, the level-scaled monster types become increasingly prevalent at high level - which, ironically, is when you're losing your ability to scale your damage fast enough to keep up with the HP scaling on many of those monsters.

*The only exception that comes to mind immediately is Gedna Relvel in Tribunal.

**Oblivion admittedly did a little of this as well, but even where it does it there is usually some level scaling going on, for instance with the atronach guarding Frostfire Glade.

[Rynjin]

considering Obsidian's track record with making games I like (Kotor 2, New Vegas, Outer Worlds) I think I'm looking forward more to Avowed than ES6.

I was lukewarm on Outer Worlds but hope they learn from the mistakes made by that game so that Avowed is GREAT rather than "okay". I never actually even finished Outer Worlds, though think about going back sometimes.

Maybe I'll reinstall it now.

[veti]

Fjol the Outlaw is an eighth-level NPC Barbarian with 106 health, a Nordic battle-axe, and fur armor whether you encounter him at level 1, level 8, or level 64; similarly for almost every other enemy or enemy type you can encounter in Morrowind.

And, pretty much every NPC in Morrowind is individually named and placed. I think there may be a couple of places where you can meet an anonymous "Bandit" or equivalent, but they're extremely rare. Every cave and tower has individually named (and statically levelled) occupants.

(At least as far as NPCs are concerned. Monsters are another matter.)

[Resileaf]

And, pretty much every NPC in Morrowind is individually named and placed. I think there may be a couple of places where you can meet an anonymous "Bandit" or equivalent, but they're extremely rare. Every cave and tower has individually named (and statically levelled) occupants.

(At least as far as NPCs are concerned. Monsters are another matter.)

The level scaling in Morrowind is most noticeable in areas where undead are common. There is a higher variety of undead in Morrowind than other types of monsters, so you'll often see upgraded versions of weak ones when you're high level.

It's harder to notice when exploring in the wilderness, since the upgraded animals are usually the same animal, but diseased or blighted.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

I’m kind of hoping we get to see more variety in Daedra in the next game. Both in the ‘multiple realms of Oblivion featured’ sense and the body styles - not just the usual Fire-Frost-Storm Atronach + Dremora but more exotic things like Hungers, Symphonies of Blades, Harvesters, Daedroth etc. Stuff that’s a little more exciting than a humanoid with horns and maybe a weird color.

[Fyraltari]

I’m kind of hoping we get to see more variety in Daedra in the next game. Both in the ‘multiple realms of Oblivion featured’ sense and the body styles - not just the usual Fire-Frost-Storm Atronach + Dremora but more exotic things like Hungers, Symphonies of Blades, Harvesters, Daedroth etc. Stuff that’s a little more exciting than a humanoid with horns and maybe a weird color.

I'd like more info about the demiprinces myself. Hey, maybe the villain could be one.

[veti]

I’m kind of hoping we get to see more variety in Daedra in the next game. Both in the ‘multiple realms of Oblivion featured’ sense and the body styles.

Would be nice, yes, but each body shape represents quite a bit of work for artists and animators. I suspect it's the sort of priority that gets mentioned and maybe planned in the early stages, then cut as the scope becomes clearer and everyone realises how overworked they're going to be anyway.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Would be nice, yes, but each body shape represents quite a bit of work for artists and animators. I suspect it's the sort of priority that gets mentioned and maybe planned in the early stages, then cut as the scope becomes clearer and everyone realises how overworked they're going to be anyway.

While I don’t disagree, I will note I consider that Bethesda’s problem and not something I should cut my wishlist short over. Zenimax pulled the ‘but we added one entire new animation!’ card as an excuse to charge ludicrous amounts for their reskinned Crown Store stuff too often for me to have much sympathy for them.

[The_Jackal]

Would be nice, yes, but each body shape represents quite a bit of work for artists and animators. I suspect it's the sort of priority that gets mentioned and maybe planned in the early stages, then cut as the scope becomes clearer and everyone realises how overworked they're going to be anyway.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't do it. It's a better solution than making a single scalable mesh for each gender. Especially for a fantasy game, so that Nords and Orcs actually look like they're different species, and Khajiit and Argonians don't look quite so... Egyptian, if you know what I mean.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

I’m wondering if we’re going to get more variety of mounts in the next game. ESO went overboard, but adding something region-appropriate in addition to horses wouldn’t go amiss.

[Eldan]

What would that be? Camels?

[factotum]

What would that be? Camels?

In the Alik'r Desert doesn't seem unreasonable?

[Kareeah_Indaga]

What would that be? Camels?

Camels for Hammerfell, Guar if we end up in Morrowind or Black Marsh, Slarjei or hire a seche-raht in Elsweyr (I guess the senche-raht would be more of a hireling)…

[Fyraltari]

If you can get a mount for your followers as well, I'll be happy.

[Eldan]

In the Alik'r Desert doesn't seem unreasonable?

Sure. Just wondering if they would be, well, interesting. I'd be wondering how different you can make horses and camels really. I can't imagine size making too much of a difference and endurance and water consumption are very unlikely to be a factor.

[Eldan]

Camels for Hammerfell, Guar if we end up in Morrowind or Black Marsh, Slarjei or hire a seche-raht in Elsweyr (I guess the senche-raht would be more of a hireling)…

It's been all but confirmed for a few years now that it's going to be Hammerfell. Bethesda even reserved the name "Redfell" or "Redfall".

[veti]

Sure. Just wondering if they would be, well, interesting. I'd be wondering how different you can make horses and camels really. I can't imagine size making too much of a difference and endurance and water consumption are very unlikely to be a factor.

Well, if mounted combat is going to be a real thing (as opposed to the butt-ugly and pointless kludge it is in Skyrim), there would be a significant difference between horses and camels. But other than that, I agree. Unless range and speed are significant factors (which would be a sharp reversal from every other game they've done), there's not much point.

[Divayth Fyr]

It's been all but confirmed for a few years now that it's going to be Hammerfell. Bethesda even reserved the name "Redfell" or "Redfall".

And it has nothing to do with TES.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Sure. Just wondering if they would be, well, interesting. I'd be wondering how different you can make horses and camels really. I can't imagine size making too much of a difference and endurance and water consumption are very unlikely to be a factor.

Even if the differences were purely cosmetic it would not be a meaningless addition, it contributes to the atmosphere. Would Morrowind have been nearly as interesting if you took a cart from city to city instead of a Silt Strider? Functionally they’re identical. Or if all the Telvanni mushroom towers were just ordinary stone? Or if all the monsters were just bears, wolves and the occasional spider?

Also being a single player game they could make broad differences between mount species (camels could carry more but horses would be faster, for example, or if they do Guar, maybe make those have a faster swim speed but be slower on land) without worrying about game balance so much, though the speed differences between horse colors annoyed me in Oblivion so I’m not sure I want them to.

It's been all but confirmed for a few years now that it's going to be Hammerfell.

While I’m all in favor of going to Hammerfell for ES6, I’m not counting it as confirmed until they officially announce it. There have been too many rumors (remember ’Greenheart’?) and anyway, getting bought out might have changed their plans.

EDIT:

Apparently there is going to be an Anniversary Edition of Skyrim. *headdesk*

[DigoDragon]

Speaking of Skyrim, I forgotten how annoying the three-stone puzzle in Ustengrav is. Always takes me a few tries because I'm never perfectly aligned like the game wants. Ah well, at least the fire traps are easy to get around. And lure the skellys into. :3

[Triaxx]

Stone puzzle is more timing than anything. Pop WS just as the last stone lights.