Adding tactical options to fighting syles (PEACH)

[Osuniev]

Inspired by the current thread on giving more options to Martials, I stole from Man_Over_Game the idea of giving special options to fighting styles.


All of these are imperfect propositions, and I very much would like feedback, criticism, and most importantly, alternate ideas !


The Goal :

- Every option should provide tactical choices, often enough. (Not once in a campaign, so players have the time to get familiar with the option)
- the option should provide an actual benefit. (yes, this is a buff to martials)
- no option should require tracking another ressource. It's okay if they use a resource already being tracked (ammunition, Hit Dice, HP...)
- options should not compete too much for the action economy, ie. we want to avoid making it incompatible with classes that rely A LOT on bonus action/reactions/etc.
- Keep It Simple Stupid : the option should build on existing action and options, not create overly complicated ones.
- Balancing the fighting styles : we want the rare/situational fighting styles to have powerful options. On the other hand, we want the powerful/always good ones to have small benefits.
- FLAVOUR : we want a Duellist to FEEL like a duelist.

That being said, let's dive in :

Defensive : When you use the Dodge Action, your opportunity attacks have advantage, and you can do a free attack every time an opponent misses you.

Makes it more interesting to use the Dodge Action. Not that powerful, mostly because : 1. Defensive Fighting Style is a already a good choice for almost every build 2. It remains a simple, straightforward fighting style for players who want a simple PC.

Archery : If you don't Move during your turn, you ignore 3/4 and 1/2 cover with your first attack

Yes, this anti-synergises with Sharpshooter, the idea is to make it less of a Feat Tax for Archers. Although I'm unsatisfied with the lack of Movement : sure, it's thematic, but movement is a tactical choice, and for Archers, often influenced by cover... Any one has a better idea ?

Blind Fighting You can use the Search Action for free on your turn. You have advantage on Perception Checks that don't rely on sight.

I reall like the flavour, but this is too situational for a style which is not that powerful. I would like to give them something cool to do when in low-light or darkness, any ideas ?

Duelist When you use the Disarm action, you inflict damage equal to your proficiency bonus. You have advantage on opportunity attacks against an Humanoid without a weapon.

Unsatisfied with this one, but I do want to give Duelists a bonus to the Disarm action.

Protection : When you have a shield in hand, you provide 3/4 cover to allies instead of half-cover. Once per round, when an ally within 15 feet of you is attacked, you can move up to 10 feet towards them or the attacker.


Feels good and fun to me, although it's not so much a tactical choice, you still probably attack every round. But at least you play like someone focus on protecting their allies. Any other suggestion ?

Interception : When you Ready an action, you may use extra attack and your bonus action during your Reaction.


Makes it feel like an interceptor ! "I'll wait at the end of this corridor and attack when they come" doesn't cost as much in the action economy. The build in cost is : if you do this, you cannot use your classic "interception" manoeuver since it requires your reaction.

Thrown Weapon Fighting

I've got not idea here.

Unarmed Fighting When you use the Shove action, if your Athletics check is superior to the opponent AC, you inflict bludgeoning damage equal to your STR or DEX bonus.

[Bjarkmundur]

I love the idea on each fighting style adding a bonus to a different actions! I'd love for this thread to gain some traction. I think it's also important to focus on giving each style a choice. Each style should give a passive bonus, and a tactical choice to make. This is what makes Protection so hard, since it already comes with a tactical choice in the form of your Reaction.

Various existing mechanics that we could work with:

- Help
- Dodge
- Dash
- Disarm
- Shove
- Grapple
- Impose Disadvantage
- Mark
- Reactions
- Ready
- Opportunity Attack
- Disengage
- Hide / Search

We can also look at the thematic a bit more. Note these are just suggestions, more meant to inspire others than to be used as-is.

Defensive
I am a defensive fighter. I prefer my enemy to make the first move, and then react accordingly. I wear an enemy down over time, make his effort for naught as I use his own momentum against him. I am the wall, the bulwark, I will occupy my enemy for hours while my teammates finish the mission.

Defensive Fighting Style 1 : +1 to AC. When you take to Dodge action, and get targeted by a melee attack before the end of your turn, you can use your Reaction to make a single melee weapon attack against the target. You gain bonus to the attack's damage roll equal to your Proficiency bonus.

Defensive Fighting Style 2 : +1 to AC. When you take to Dodge action, and get targeted by a melee attack before the end of your turn, you can use your Reaction to make a single melee weapon attack with advantage against the target.

Defensive Fighting Style 3: +1 to AC. When you take the Dodge action, any creature you hit with an opportunity attack until the start of your next turn can only use half of its movement for that turn.



Archery
I am the overwatch, I am the bird's eye, and I am the lookout. I watch my allies' movement, and my enemies' even closer. I see everything.

Archery Fighting Style 1: You gain a +2 Bonus to Attacks made with Ranged weapons. In addition, when you take the Help action, you can target an ally within 30" feet that can see and hear you.

Archery Fighting Style 2: You gain a +2 Bonus to Attacks made with Ranged weapons. In addition, when an enemy leaves your line of sight, you can use your Reaction to take the Search action.

Archery Fighting Style 3: You gain a +2 Bonus to Attacks made with Ranged weapons. In addition, when an creature within 30" feat of you that you can see and hear makes a Ranged attack, you can use your Reaction to grant the creature a +2 bonus to the attack roll. If you do so you cannot benefit from this Fighting style until the end of your next turn.



Dueling:
A fight is but a contest, but not if strength. It's a contest of wits, of elegance, of determination. When faced with a foe, I will do everything in my power to show the world I am more.

Dueling Fighting Style 1: When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon. In addition, when you take the Disarm action, you do so with advantage.

Dueling Fighting Style 2: When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon. In addition, when you have no more than 1 creature within 5 feet of you, you have advantage on opportunity attacks against the target.

Dueling Fighting Style 3: When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon. In addition, when you have no more than 1 creature within 5 feet of you and the target either moves or takes the Disengage action, you can use your Reaction to move up to 15" feet in a direction closer to the target.



Great Weapon
Lunges? Parries? No thank you. I do not move my weapon, it moves me. With every step I take I swing harder, and harder, until we both become impossible to stop.

Great Weapon Fighting 1: When you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an attack you make with a melee weapon you are wielding with two hands, you can re-roll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property for you to gain this benefit. When you take the Attack action on your turn you can make a Sweeping attack. (add your own rules on how a sweeping attack works)

Great Weapon Fighting 2: When you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an attack you make with a melee weapon you are wielding with two hands, you can re-roll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property for you to gain this benefit. In addition, whenever you successfully use the Overrun action, the target takes damage equal to your Weapon's damage die. Increases to two weapon dice at Xth level, and blablabla

Great Weapon Fighting 2: When you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an attack you make with a melee weapon you are wielding with two hands, you can re-roll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property for you to gain this benefit. In addition, whenever you take the Overrun action you can make a single melee attack against the target instead of an ability check. If the attack hits you successfully overrun the target.




Protection
Man I have no idea. This fighting style slaps. It's already so thematic and it uses your Reaction. I have no idea what to add. I could maybe steal something from a feat, but that kinda just feels lazy. Might work though. Maybe you could Ready an action to raise your shield, giving additional protection to whoever stands "behind" you. You raise your shield, duck your head, tell an ally to stand behind Braum, and whatever comes your way has to deal with some degree of cover?



Oof. Seems I'm out of creative juice for the moment. I didn't get to the Two-Weapon Fighting one. But since I think most people have rebalanced that one anyways, I think each table has to decide on their own how to give that style additional choices.

[Bjarkmundur]

Reading over this, I'm really into the "here's something you can do instead of the attack Action" theme. That it's really the only way to truly add options, to sweeten the deal with bonuses so martials er incentived to really think whether the attack Action is the best on each turns.

[Mastikator]

An alternative option for Defense: When you take the dodge action you can use your bonus action instead of your action, you can do this an equal amount of time as your proficiency bonus before you need a long rest.

I like the archery one.

The blind fighting one I also don't like. How about: you have advantage on passive perception against hidden enemies within your blind sight range.

I like the duelist one too but it's quite limited, many monsters do not have weapons

[Bjarkmundur]

Uhm. This might be a stupid idea, but if the goal is "give martials more stuff to do than just take the attack action", this option is kinda stupid simple:



After resolving the attack action, you can choose to reduce the damage dealt by half, and take one of the following actions as a part of the attack action. You cannot do so again until after a short or long rest.

- Help
- Hide
- Dodge
- Dash
- Search
- Shove
- Overrun
- Use Object

[Rukelnikov]

I like the idea of deeper combat styles. However, I think the "added" benefits shouldn't be much more specific than the styles already are.

The Defensive style, for instance, requires you to be wearing armor. That's not very specific, from here you can still go to very different playstyles.

Defensive : When you use the Dodge Action, your opportunity attacks have advantage, and you can do a free attack every time an opponent misses you.

This extra benefit, on the other hand, is encouraging a much narrower playstyle. One in which, my Paladin wouldn't see much benefit if at all, but my Spirit Guardians spamming Dwarven Cleric would likely dip Paladin or Figther for a significant boost to my default action (Dodge).

So, my point is, it benefits a specific playstyle (frequently taking the Dodge action) much more than a generic one. Maybe even becoming the dodging style, more than the defensive style.

I'd go for something that would benefit anyone who just wanted to be tankier, and since it already has a passive component, maybe something like "When you are subject to a critical hit, you can spend your reaction to have the triggering attack deal normal damage".

To benefit from something like that you only need to be subject to a crit, which still covers a lot of possible playstyles.

For instance for dueling, instead of only benefiting a disarming style, you could get "if a creature within your threatened area uses a reaction, and you are not inside the threatened area of any other creature, you can spend your reaction to prevent that creature's reaction" (kinda like a "martial counter", showcasing the quicker reactions this lighter style allows.)

That's a bit more specific than be aremd only with a one handed weapon, but the prequisite boils down to have a 1 on 1 fight. It conditions the positioning and movement of the character a bit and you only get a benefit if your opponent uses a reaction, but Opp Atts are reactions, so at the very least, in a duel, you can always turn tail, and "parry" the opportunity attack. Giving any duelist stlye combatant a nice option if they are indeed having a duel.

Those are my 2 cents.

[Bjarkmundur]

Rukelnikov, I like we're you're going! Could you write up your own versions of the basic fighting styles for me, if you have the time? :D

[Rukelnikov]

Rukelnikov, I like we're you're going! Could you write up your own versions of the basic fighting styles for me, if you have the time? :D

I'll see if I can come up with something

[GreyBlack]

snip

I'm just gonna go one by one and see what I think.

Defensive : When you use the Dodge Action, your opportunity attacks have advantage, and you can do a free attack every time an opponent misses you.

Makes it more interesting to use the Dodge Action. Not that powerful, mostly because : 1. Defensive Fighting Style is a already a good choice for almost every build 2. It remains a simple, straightforward fighting style for players who want a simple PC.

This needs some kind of rider in there that the free attack is not every time an opponent misses you, but once per attack. Otherwise, you just know someone is gonna say "But it doesn't say how many free attacks I get!"

Also, this doesn't feel very "Defensive." I like the interaction with the Dodge Action, but it could potentially be a little bit too powerful as it can not only make more attacks than someone might have available, but also put everyone else at disadvantage. I might instead change it to "When you use the Dodge Action, your opportunity attacks have advantage, and you may take an opportunity attack if an opponent attacks you and misses before the beginning of your next turn."

Archery : If you don't Move during your turn, you ignore 3/4 and 1/2 cover with your first attack

Yes, this anti-synergises with Sharpshooter, the idea is to make it less of a Feat Tax for Archers. Although I'm unsatisfied with the lack of Movement : sure, it's thematic, but movement is a tactical choice, and for Archers, often influenced by cover... Any one has a better idea ?

Agreed, this feels a bit wonky. Maybe just "No movement to attack at advantage with your first attack?

Blind Fighting You can use the Search Action for free on your turn. You have advantage on Perception Checks that don't rely on sight.

I reall like the flavour, but this is too situational for a style which is not that powerful. I would like to give them something cool to do when in low-light or darkness, any ideas ?

No notes, I love this one.

Duelist When you use the Disarm action, you inflict damage equal to your proficiency bonus. You have advantage on opportunity attacks against an Humanoid without a weapon.

Unsatisfied with this one, but I do want to give Duelists a bonus to the Disarm action.

Fun fact of the day, but 5e does not actually have a disarm action? Am I missing this? There's an optional rule in the DMG, but making a fighting style tactical option that might not be allowed is probably not the best option.

Protection : When you have a shield in hand, you provide 3/4 cover to allies instead of half-cover. Once per round, when an ally within 15 feet of you is attacked, you can move up to 10 feet towards them or the attacker.


Feels good and fun to me, although it's not so much a tactical choice, you still probably attack every round. But at least you play like someone focus on protecting their allies. Any other suggestion ?

The "Once per round" tag in the second one needs to be a reaction. Otherwise, this could potentially just be free movement and allow someone to bounce around the battlefield AND THEN use their reaction, which could be a bit bonkers.

Interception : When you Ready an action, you may use extra attack and your bonus action during your Reaction.


Makes it feel like an interceptor ! "I'll wait at the end of this corridor and attack when they come" doesn't cost as much in the action economy. The build in cost is : if you do this, you cannot use your classic "interception" manoeuver since it requires your reaction.

I like the flavor, but this is way too powerful. Imagine a Cleric dipping into Fighter to take this fighting style and then casting a Level 4 Spiritual Weapon, and then taking an attack and their Spiritual Weapon attack. This one just comes off the top of my head, but there are so many ways this can be broken.

Thrown Weapon Fighting

I've got not idea here.

Neither do I.

Unarmed Fighting When you use the Shove action, if your Athletics check is superior to the opponent AC, you inflict bludgeoning damage equal to your STR or DEX bonus.

Perfect. I'm good. Cut, print, send to press.

Hope this helps!

[quindraco]

My instinct nowadays is always to respond to attempts at this sort of homebrew by plagiarising Spheres of Power and Might. No reason not to do so here.

Since OP is particularly interested in Dueling and wants to focus on Disarm, I'll use that as my example:

Dueling: When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon, and if you perform a melee disarm attack with that weapon and succeed, you may do one of the following:

1. Bind:
   Instead of making the target drop the item, you can bind their item to your weapon. This can be done with a target’s hand or natural weapon as if it were a held weapon.
   
   As long as the creature’s item is bound, they cannot use it to make attacks and are considered grappled by you. They may let go of the item to break the grapple (if the item is not their hand or natural weapon) but otherwise must break the grapple as normal to regain use of the item and be able to move. While your weapon is binding in this way, attacking any target other than the bound one with this weapon immediately ends the grapple.
2. Steal:
   You may immediately catch the disarmed object as long as you have at least one free hand. If you so choose, you may immediately make a single attack with that item as a bonus action. Whether or not you have a free hand, you may elect not to catch the item, in which case it drops in your space rather than your target's.