OOTS #1247 - The Discussion Thread

[r2d2go]

Given that Serini is getting away, I cannot WAIT for the actually chatty halves of each party to become friends and resolve this. That would avoid the terribly unsatisfying "Xykon wins because miscommunication" problem AND give Elan and Sunny some fun character development. Competent diplomat go!

Edit: To be clear, I expect the well memorized and twisty tunnels to give Serini an escape at this point. She's rounded the corner and with every 20-60 ft or so she gains another wand cast and another 50-50 at which tunnel is right. On the other hand, Elan has healing, Song of Freedom, and Neutralize Poison. He can get the entire other half of the Order up... if he can convince Sunny to let him. Given her helpful disposition and Elan's genuine innocence and goodness, I think it's likely.

They really don't have a good reason to not be friends, other than "Mom told me so". But Mom at best called them misguided and incompetent, which is terribly unthreatening, and who is moreso than Elan (in apperance if not in function)? Surely he's fine to befriend...

I have high hopes.

[Fyraltari]

I’d be glad to see that if she wasn’t making the protagonists look entirely incompetent in comparison. About the only thing the Order’s legitimately achieved through skill here is getting Sunny to blink and Haley kicking Serini down to the floor. And she got out of all of that as well.

What have they done that looks incompetent? Being incompetent and losing is not the same, and they're not even losing: she's running away from them!

sucker pinches

Some kind of throttle, I would imagine.

[Gwynfrid]

So, at this rate, next we should get a darkmantle, a gelatinous cube in a square hole, two dozens variety of mimics and some umber hulks int he walls ?

I sure hope so! In fact, I hope for a whole gallery of monsters in the next dozen pages. I strongly suspect that the whole reason for Serini having decided to build a tomb for Kraagor and fill it with monsters is so that Rich can have a ton of fun drawing monsters galore...

[danielxcutter]

I'd honestly put Haley above him but he's up there.

Rangers actually do have a lot of the dungeon-relevant skills I think, so that makes sense.

Given that Serini is getting away, I cannot WAIT for the actually chatty halves of each party to become friends and resolve this. That would avoid the terribly unsatisfying "Xykon wins because miscommunication" problem AND give Elan and Sunny some fun character development. Competent diplomat go!

Yeah, I’d rather see that for a bit rather than the next 50 strips being Serini going “nuh uh, you didn’t get me”.

[Psyren]

As an example - Haley figured out what Elan was doing immediately (to get her access to her bag of holding) while Belkar was slower on the uptake. That's the kind of dungeon savvy you can't teach

I also disagree wholeheartedly with Belkar's assessment, I love the rules stuff still making its way into the strip

[danielxcutter]

Considering Belkar’s dumped almost all his mental stats, I’d be surprised if he did.

[Hurkyl]

Yeah, I’d rather see that for a bit rather than the next 50 strips being Serini going “nuh uh, you didn’t get me”.

It will probably just show the highlights on panel, interspersed with catching up with the other half of the party, Team Evil, or any of the other players that are going to be relevant this chapter. (if the story goes the extended chase route, anyways)

[zinycor]

Yeah, I’d rather see that for a bit rather than the next 50 strips being Serini going “nuh uh, you didn’t get me”.

Next strip, the world is saved, no explanation! Now that's where saving time leads xD

[Psyren]

Considering Belkar’s dumped almost all his mental stats, I’d be surprised if he did.

There are some aspects of adventuring savvy that aren't represented by mental stats necessarily, and Belkar has those in spades.

[luagha]

>I do find it interesting that she only popped 10-20ft. away from the bubble instead of taking the opportunity to blink 400ft. away. Does she not know her own dungeon that well, or is she luring them to something specific?


The dungeons likely have some kind of teleport protection in the walls, I think that was mentioned. You can do a line of sight teleport a little ways in a corridor, but you can't teleport/dimension door through any of the walls. Which means no dimension door for Serini to just get 400 feet away into an entirely different section of the complex.

[Psyren]

The dungeons likely have some kind of teleport protection in the walls, I think that was mentioned. You can do a line of sight teleport a little ways in a corridor, but you can't teleport/dimension door through any of the walls. Which means no dimension door for Serini to just get 400 feet away into an entirely different section of the complex.

1) That didn't stop her earlier.

2) Even if you're right and only straight line porting is possible - she could have gotten much further away in a straight line than she did.

[danielxcutter]

1) That didn't stop her earlier.

2) Even if you're right and only straight line porting is possible - she could have gotten much further away in a straight line than she did.

Yeah, she’s totally leading them into another killbox.

[Hurkyl]

1) That didn't stop her earlier.

I've been presuming all along that was a separate building. The possibility that could have been inside Kraagor's Tomb actually never even crossed my mind.

[Psyren]

I've been presuming all along that was a separate building. The possibility that could have been inside Kraagor's Tomb actually never even crossed my mind.

As Haley mentioned, it's unlikely she has a wholly separate complex when TE would have combed the area for one. Plus wand limits mean her only method of teleportation is likely to be Dimension Door, so she can't be too far away. Those two facts point to the most likely location for her base to be inside the dungeon complex proper.

Yeah, she’s totally leading them into another killbox.

I'm curious about the splash weapon she threw too, as that would hint at her intentions. It didn't appear to be acid, was it forget-juice? slow-down goo? More sleep poison, but contact instead of injury?

[Doug Lampert]

I'm curious about the splash weapon she threw too, as that would hint at her intentions. It didn't appear to be acid, was it forget-juice? slow-down goo? More sleep poison, but contact instead of injury?

Eh? It's green fluid in a D&D comic that comes in a vial and reacts with a stone floor (so not poison). It's acid. How does it not look like acid?

[wilphe]

I sure hope so! In fact, I hope for a whole gallery of monsters in the next dozen pages. I strongly suspect that the whole reason for Serini having decided to build a tomb for Kraagor and fill it with monsters is so that Rich can have a ton of fun drawing monsters galore...

Hmm:

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0055.html

Monsters never officially updated to 3E.

Piercers and Lurkers were not updated to 3E right?

Which suggests some sort of connection/callback is going to happen

[Psyren]

Eh? It's green fluid in a D&D comic that comes in a vial and reacts with a stone floor (so not poison). It's acid. How does it not look like acid?

It didn't look like it interacted with the floor to me. Fumes came from it, but in panel 9 it looks like it's just settled on the floor behind V instead of having eaten through it.

Also, she wasn't trying to do lethal damage to them previously, just knock them out.

Hmm:

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0055.html

Monsters never officially updated to 3E.

Piercers and Lurkers were not updated to 3E right?

Which suggests some sort of connection/callback is going to happen

I imagine it's like Dorukan's tomb where they filled their dungeons (or at least, part of their dungeons) with the monsters that were around at the time.

I expect if we got a Scribble prequel, it would include some AD&D or 3.0 callback jokes.

[Metastachydium]

Considering Belkar’s dumped almost all his mental stats, I’d be surprised if he did.

I never saw any concrete evidence that he's low INT, though. Sure, V thinks so, but V thinks everyone else is some degree of dumb.

[danielxcutter]

I did say almost.

[Erai]

That last comment of Belkar made me snort soda through my nose and over my keyboard. I hope he is happy now (Darn it... he probably would be )

[Metastachydium]

I did say almost.

He's also a decent liar and succesful with women. His CHA can't be as low as Durkon's or V's either. (Although yeah, I doubt he invested a lot into it.)

[Peelee]

Regardless of anything, it is at least refreshing to have someone flippantly speculate killing their opponent that they don't really want to kill without them being called out as callous or evil by people. Progress.

She's indeed great at stalling without accomplishing anything of substance.

True of anyone whose plans are being foiled, I suppose. Xykon and Redcloak stalled without accomplishing anything of substance when fighting the Order in Dorukan's Dungeon, if you look at it that way.

She’s also doing an excellent job at ensuring that the Order won’t be able to stop Xykon.

Oh cool, nice to know the Order won't stop Xykon after all.

Unless, of course, you're completely wrong.

[bunsen_h]

I am really annoyed by V's behavior at this juncture. Just running/flying ahead like that, without even checking their surroundings. Whatever happened to basic adventurer paranoia, though? It's like these people have never had a ceiling come to life and try to smother them before!

Serini is successfully taunting V to be careless, and there may be an element of arrogance as well on V's part: of course I can take on this little old halfling!

I do find it interesting that she only popped 10-20ft. away from the bubble instead of taking the opportunity to blink 400ft. away. Does she not know her own dungeon that well, or is she luring them to something specific?

Luring would be my guess.

Eh? It's green fluid in a D&D comic that comes in a vial and reacts with a stone floor (so not poison). It's acid. How does it not look like acid?

Monster-in-a-bottle. Upon its release, it reforms into a baby Horta. Having some Hortas (Hortae?) as associates would help with the tunnel-building.

[Metastachydium]

Regardless of anything, it is at least refreshing to have someone flippantly speculate killing their opponent that they don't really want to kill without them being called out as callous or evil by people. Progress.

Protagonist get some leeway, I suppose. (Also, it's funny how the only one who did not express a wish to just puncture Serini's vital organs is the token Evil teammate.)

Oh cool, nice to know the Order won't stop Xykon after all.

Unless, of course, you're completely wrong.

Of course she won't prevent that, but she's trying, Ringo!

[Elkad]

Update. Aw yeah.

V getting trapped in the jaws of that Monster I Cannot Identify Because I Don't Play A Lot Of DnD reminds me of like, when people get rolled up into carpets.

Does that make sense? I doubt it.

Yes.
A "Trapper" is a carpet that rolls you up and squeezes you when you step on it. Then it eats you.
A "Lurker" hangs on the ceiling and does the same thing when you walk (or fly) under it.

[danielxcutter]

He's also a decent liar and succesful with women. His CHA can't be as low as Durkon's or V's either. (Although yeah, I doubt he invested a lot into it.)

Hmm, where was that post about the flayer seeing the Order as food? I don't think it actually mentioned Belkar's mental scores, though.

Oh cool, nice to know the Order won't stop Xykon after all.

Unless, of course, you're completely wrong.

And now I'm positive you're trying to make me feel bad, but what I meant that they have basically negative two thousand percent of a chance if she doesn't stop trying to sabotage them. Do you really expect the Order to be able to defeat all three of those factions at once?

[Peelee]

Of course she won't prevent that, but she's trying, Ringo!

She doesn't think they can to start with, so if anything, she thinks she's saving their lives.

And now I'm positive you're trying to make me feel bad, but what I meant that they have basically negative two thousand percent of a chance if she doesn't stop trying to sabotage them. Do you really expect the Order to be able to defeat all three of those factions at once?

I wasn't aware that they absolutely had to fight all three factions at once. I must have missed the strip where that was mandated.

In fact, they seem to be only fighting one currently. How shocking.

Also, I'm not trying to make you feel bad. I'm highlighting what I believe to be flaws in your argument.

[danielxcutter]

She doesn't think they can to start with, so if anything, she thinks she's saving their lives.

Serini thinking that she's right doesn't change the fact that if she succeeds it really will likely result in the end of this world at minimum.

[Metastachydium]

Hmm, where was that post about the flayer seeing the Order as food? I don't think it actually mentioned Belkar's mental scores, though.

Right here, and yes, it doesn't.

She doesn't think they can to start with, so if anything, she thinks she's saving their lives.

With no. 8 and glue!

[Windscion]

No, it means Serini will drug them and talk to them and learn stuff they have been trying to tell her.