Class and Level Geekery XIX - Nobody Cares about that Stuff Anymore

[Psyren]

I'm with Unoriginal on this one. Malack grappled Durkon, that much is clear, but all the signs point to it being a non-damaging grapple rather than a constrict attack. (I think he just happens to look more serpentine than other lizardfolk we've seen in the comic.)

[Souhiro]

Hey fellas!

What do you think about the stats for Red Dragon in the current arc?
I think that he's, at the very least, Old, since he needs Caster Level 10 for Dominate Person (Dragons cast as Sorcs. According to SRD, they are CL9 at Mature Adult age, and CL11 at Old age). On the other hand, the Empress of Blood looked larger than him (And I still laugh myself with the scene about her flying xD) but Dragons, from Old onwards, are supposed to be of Gargantuesque Size and should dwarf her!


On the other hand, a CR-20 may be too much for our heroes.
Something odd is that everybody passed the Frightful Presence, with a DC:29 (Belkar should had a very bad time with that, since he would have a +3 to his Will saves (with a +4 of having two paladins with Area of Courage near him. And Haley with a +9, paladins included, is no better, but for the moment, she has a Mind Blank spell)


So... what do you think about this cute little dragon? Old, Very Old, Ancient...?

[Peelee]

Hey fellas!

What do you think about the stats for Red Dragon in the current arc?
I think that he's, at the very least, Old, since he needs Caster Level 10 for Dominate Person (Dragons cast as Sorcs. According to SRD, they are CL9 at Mature Adult age, and CL11 at Old age). On the other hand, the Empress of Blood looked larger than him (And I still laugh myself with the scene about her flying xD) but Dragons, from Old onwards, are supposed to be of Gargantuesque Size and should dwarf her!


On the other hand, a CR-20 may be too much for our heroes.
Something odd is that everybody passed the Frightful Presence, with a DC:29 (Belkar should had a very bad time with that, since he would have a +3 to his Will saves (with a +4 of having two paladins with Area of Courage near him. And Haley with a +9, paladins included, is no better, but for the moment, she has a Mind Blank spell)


So... what do you think about this cute little dragon? Old, Very Old, Ancient...?

I think Caldera is definitely in the Elderly age category, possibly with the Retired template, and probably using the Social Security buff.

[Gurgeh]

The Empress of Blood is not a useful reference point for size because her size is unlinked from the standard draconic progression and likely exaggerated for comic effect regardless. Calder is clearly larger than the Ancient Black Dragon but I'm not sure where the line would lie between a Gargantuan and a Colossal dragon.

As far as Frightful Presence goes, it's hard to say. In Belkar's case, remember that he's got a vest of resistance +3. Throw on his wisdom penalty, class save bonus and Aura of Courage and we'd be looking at a total modifier of +10 or +11 depending on his exact Ranger level, so it's possible for him to pass a DC 29 save without a natural 20 - but very unlikely. Haley is actually worse off than he is by the available evidence since she has no known save-boosting magic items (bluffing Calder into thinking she's mind blanked does not actually give her any protection from his abilities, it will only serve to discourage him from using those abilities in the first place).

It's entirely possible that Belkar (and other characters) have failed their saves and are shaken; the penalties are not enormous. It's also possible that everyone made their saves, either through sheer luck or by being the beneficiaries of off-panel buffing or the like.

[danielxcutter]

I mean if Hilgya, a high-level Cleric can blow a Will save against Durkon*'s gaze attack, "sheer dumb luck" seems valid. Also there are spells that provide immunity against fear, I think.

[Timy]

A quick question for the rules nerd:
How does Haley move and then make a full attack ?
Does a feat allows that ?

[b_jonas]

Timy: Haley didn't full attack. She has the Manyshot feat which lets her fire multiple arrows in a standard action attack.

[Timy]

Timy: Haley didn't full attack. She has the Manyshot feat which lets her fire multiple arrows in a standard action attack.

OK, my bad, I miscounted the number of shot (I was at 5 ^^)

[danielxcutter]

Technically she has Greater Multishot, which lets her make attack rolls with each separate arrow. This is important because precision damage - including Sneak Attack, but also the Sudden Strike ability of ninjas and Skirmish of scouts - only applies once per attack roll, making this a much better option for Haley.

[remetagross]

For Elan, we either need Bard 14+, Dashing Swordman 2+, or Bard 15+, Dashing Swordman 1+, but not Bard 14+, Dashing Swordman 1+.

[Timy]

The rule of thumb, as I understand it, is that we only put in abilities/levels that we can pretty definitively state are possessed or demonstrated. Hence the perennial argument over X being listed as Sorcerer 21+, it's overwhelmingly likely that he's intended to be higher level than that, but he COULD do everything seen at level 21 with the right build/items.

Similarly, Dashing Swordsman level 1 COULD advance bard casting and Dashing Swordsman 2 not do so, and that explains everything observed.

I'd say Bard 15+, Dashing Swordsman 1+, (bard caster level 16+) pretty well covers what we know he has.

I personally think that he's bard 16+, dashing swordsman 1+, and that Haley, Elan, and Belkar are all now level 17, but there's nothing in the rules that says Dashing Swordsman can't advance casting at level 1 (the actual abilities of Dashing Swordsmen being unknown except possibly to Rich), so I would not say that Bard 16+ is clearly demonstrated in the comic.

Like others have pointed out, the problem with this reasoning is that we fall in the "or the giant is using an houserule".

quick reminder of the FAQ in the OP :

Q: Does The Giant use house rules?
Probably. But for the purpose of this thread, we assume that the comic doesn't, except where The Giant has explicitly said so, or where some event is clearly not possible by the rules. That is, we try to explain events in the comic within the rules as much as possible, and that means not leaving factoids out of this thread just because The Giant might not have followed the rules there.

IIRC, absolutely nothing in comic shows that the dashing swordsman prestige class advances casting level of any sort. More than that, (again IIRC) Julio never used any kind of spell in-comic.
And on the other hand, we even have an instance where Elan say that at least in the regard of spell known, he had to take a bard level to relearn a spell.

So in my opinion, for the purpose of this thread, we have to consider that Ethan is a level 16+ Bard with the usual "or the Giant used an houserule"

EDIT : I went here : 0390 to have the first description of the dashing swordsman and it is fully described as a fighter/duelist class.

[Tubercular Ox]

It seems very odd to assert that Malack has an ability and point to a scene where he does not use it as evidence for it.

What? Malack is constricting Durkon in that scene. This is the whole of what Rich needs to draw to accurately depict a constrict attack.

The belief that Rich forgot to draw it doing enough hit point damage is flawed because Rich has a wide range of ways of depicting hit point damage, up to and include no-sales. You have to selectively ignore a whole bunch of strips to believe it's not doing enough.

The belief that Malack would gloat over his ability to crush the life out of Durkon is flawed because he recently expressed a desire to create more spawn, which is not possible if he crushes the life out of Durkon.

And the claim was never that it's independently verifiable as Crushing Weight of the Mountain from internal evidence alone, it is just the explanation that is most consistent with a larger theory that Tarquin is a Swordsage. This throw perfectly depicts a Ballista Throw, spinning like a top and flinging Durkon like a ballista bolt, which requires around* 6 levels of Swordsage by itself. I definitely walk into this with that in mind. I see that Swordsages do have a way to teach their maneuvers to other people, through the Martial Study and Martial Stance feats, and a brief glance through the maneuvers available shows Crushing Weight of the Mountain as the only one that is a match for the artwork.

I don't think it's Crushing Weight of the Mountain because how it depicts its damage meets an arbitrary standard set by forum-goers, I think it's Crushing Weight of the Mountain because that is the only thing a Swordsage can teach Malack that makes sense given the art.

And continuing in the realm of imagining things, I think the hammer blow is an attack of opportunity, since Durkon would absolutely cast a spell if his turn had come up again. This means Malack doesn't have Improved Grapple. While I don't have every feat in the game memorized, I imagine that sharply limits what kinds of thing Tarquin can teach Malack that would matter enough to be worth the dialog.

I also think it's a stretch to ask Rich to have familiarity with every feat in the game, and the convenience of having a single book of maneuvers that he can draw inspiration from recommends itself.

*A level 11 Swordsage could learn it straight. A level 10 Swordsage could learn it with two levels in other classes. A level 9 Swordsage could learn it with four levels in other classes. A level 6 swordsage could learn it with 10 levels in other classes (Level 16, Tarquin's minimum). A level 0 Swordsage could learn it with 3 feats and 22 levels in other classes.

[Beni-Kujaku]

What? Malack is constricting Durkon in that scene. This is the whole of what Rich needs to draw to accurately depict a constrict attack.

The belief that Rich forgot to draw it doing enough hit point damage is flawed because Rich has a wide range of ways of depicting hit point damage, up to and include no-sales. You have to selectively ignore a whole bunch of strips to believe it's not doing enough.

Malack says, quote, "Normally, I would simply hold you until [Death Ward] expired", which means that, in his eyes, the situation would not have meaningfully changed in that period. Are we okay thus far ?
The duration of Death Ward is around 15 minutes. If Malack had constrict, then he would have killed Durkon several times over by then.
This contradicts his earlier statement, thus we can infer that he is not using Constrict here. Not necessarily that he does not have it (he could be refraining from using it to drink Durkon's blood), but at least that he is not using it to damage Durkon. If you have other arguments not including this scene pointing towards Malack having Constrict, then we will investigate them, but this particular scene does not point in that direction.

Additionally "It's Crushing Weight of the Mountain because the technique is said to be learned from Malack" is flawed in its own right. Malack is saying that the technique he learned would make Durkon unable to escape, not damage him. CWotM does not give any bonus on grappling, only the ability to damage the grappled.

[Unoriginal]

The belief that Rich forgot to draw it doing enough hit point damage

There is no belief that Rich forgot to draw the action doing enough hit point damage.

The belief is that Rich drew the action doing exactly as much hit point damage as he wanted it to do, aka none.

The belief that Malack would gloat over his ability to crush the life out of Durkon is flawed because he recently expressed a desire to create more spawn, which is not possible if he crushes the life out of Durkon.

But it is perfectly possible to create a spawn from someone who is merely *close* to death. It's far more convenient than doing it to someone who is at full health, actually.

The grappling-leading-into-vampire-draining part happens after a whole combat where Malack repeatedly damages Durkon's HPs, or at least attempt to. There is no basis to claim that Malack wouldn't have hurt Durkon to make vampire-biting him easier.

And the claim was never that it's independently verifiable as Crushing Weight of the Mountain from internal evidence alone it is just the explanation that is most consistent with a larger theory that Tarquin is a Swordsage.

I was told repeatedly that this thread would only accept an hypothesis in the OP if there was no possible alternate explanations for the evidence presented. No "it is possible", no "it is consistent with another theory", only if it was the only possible option.

Adding "Malack had Crushing Weight of the Mountain" to the OP without it being the only possible explanation violates that principle.

And continuing in the realm of imagining things

The realm of imagining things has no bearing when this thread prides itself on only taking into account indisputable possibilities.

I think it's Crushing Weight of the Mountain because that is the only thing a Swordsage can teach Malack that makes sense given the art.

I find it particularly strange that you, Tubercular Ox, insists that Tarquin being a Swordsage is what Rich intended to portray.

Because Rich personally told you he had no awareness of that theory until you asked about it:

So, does this nix "Tarquin is a Swordsage"? Cuz that Ballista Throw and the constricting stance were nova hot.

OMG, it nixes the Blue Carbuncle, too. Unless that's an ordinary Carbuncle.

I honestly enjoy having had no awareness of either of these two theories.

EDIT: Wrecan is technically a Crusader so there's still some flexibility in each category anyway.

[Tzardok]

"I am trained in grappling" can just as easily mean "I took Improved Grapple as my feat one time". It doesn't need to be a martial maneuver.

[Tubercular Ox]

Malack says, quote, "Normally, I would simply hold you until [Death Ward] expired", which means that, in his eyes, the situation would not have meaningfully changed in that period. Are we okay thus far ?
The duration of Death Ward is around 15 minutes. If Malack had constrict, then he would have killed Durkon several times over by then.
This contradicts his earlier statement,

It doesn't, because he told you what he would normally do, not what you wish he would do. No matter how many times he constricts Durkon, as long as he doesn't kill him it's still accurate to say he would hold Durkon until the 15 minutes are up.

thus we can infer that he is not using Constrict here. Not necessarily that he does not have it (he could be refraining from using it to drink Durkon's blood), but at least that he is not using it to damage Durkon. If you have other arguments not including this scene pointing towards Malack having Constrict, then we will investigate them, but this particular scene does not point in that direction.

We cannot infer he is not using constrict and we cannot infer that he is not doing damage. I can see Durkon is constricted, and him taking damage is about as visible as Rich ever draws it.

Additionally "It's Crushing Weight of the Mountain because the technique is said to be learned from Malack" is flawed in its own right. Malack is saying that the technique he learned would make Durkon unable to escape, not damage him. CWotM does not give any bonus on grappling, only the ability to damage the grappled.

That's not what he says. He says he learned a variety of techniques and Durkon will not escape.

There is no belief that Rich forgot to draw the action doing enough hit point damage.

The belief is that Rich drew the action doing exactly as much hit point damage as he wanted it to do, aka none.

And I see it doing enough. It's arbitrary. There's no standard. Rich especially doesn't provide one, he underdraws damage all the time.

But it is perfectly possible to create a spawn from someone who is merely *close* to death. It's far more convenient than doing it to someone who is at full health, actually.

Dunno about that. It's Con damage, tracked separately from hit points. And to head this off: I don't know why Malack would constrict Durkon if his goal isn't to rob him of hit points, but it's visible in the comic and it's not inconsistent with anything else going on. Maybe he just wants to show off his Constricting ability.

I was told repeatedly that this thread would only accept an hypothesis in the OP if there was no possible alternate explanations for the evidence presented. No "it is possible", no "it is consistent with another theory", only if it was the only possible option.

Maybe it's time to revisit that because the first post in this thread is absolutely useless for catching new threadizens up to speed. I would have loved to see even a single word on Tarquin being a Swordsage the first dozen times I used this thread as a reference, whether everyone agreed or not. Someone finally linked me the old discussions, and as hard as people in this thread then argued about it, there should have been some output. Publish or perish.

The realm of imagining things has no bearing when this thread prides itself on only taking into account indisputable possibilities.

It's actually a really big jump from what's in the first post to "indisputable possibilities". Not even murder uses "indisputable" as a standard for conviction. A lot of lesser judgments are made based on the preponderance of evidence, which would include Tarquin being a swordsage and subsequently identifying this as Crushing Weight of the Mountain. If you want to tag it as not indisputable, that's fine. That's transparency. Hiding it from people because you're not happy with it is the opposite of transparency.

Sometimes I cry thinking of whatever other great ideas Rich hid in the story that no one will tell me about because they're not indisputable. But every time I look up Belkar and don't see any comment on why we're excluding Favored Enemy: Kobold, I'm reminded that the first post wasn't meant to answer people's questions.

I find it particularly strange that you, Tubercular Ox, insists that Tarquin being a Swordsage is what Rich intended to portray.

Because Rich personally told you he had no awareness of that theory until you asked about it:

So, does this nix "Tarquin is a Swordsage"? Cuz that Ballista Throw and the constricting stance were nova hot.

OMG, it nixes the Blue Carbuncle, too. Unless that's an ordinary Carbuncle.

I honestly enjoy having had no awareness of either of these two theories.

EDIT: Wrecan is technically a Crusader so there's still some flexibility in each category anyway.

Yes, he told me he'd never heard of the blue carbuncle theory, and then in the very swag he came to the forum to post about, he had a picture of a blue carbuncle. (Zoom in a few times and look at the forehead gem)

By analogy, I think it's possible that Tarquin is a Swordsage and Rich would still tell me he's never heard of the theory before. To speculate, I wonder if he thinks only fans have theories and when he decides the carbuncle is blue, it's a fact, not a theory. To further speculate, it is not uncommon for authors to go into lockdown when the audience starts asking them questions about parts of the story that weren't meant to be obvious, which we have seen Rich do before, e.g. Greg as a nontheistic cleric.

Also, that EDIT: is fire.

[Unoriginal]

It doesn't, because he told you what he would normally do, not what you wish he would do. No matter how many times he constricts Durkon, as long as he doesn't kill him it's still accurate to say he would hold Durkon until the 15 minutes are up.


We cannot infer he is not using constrict and we cannot infer that he is not doing damage. I can see Durkon is constricted, and him taking damage is about as visible as Rich ever draws it.

[...]

I don't know why Malack would constrict Durkon if his goal isn't to rob him of hit points, but it's visible in the comic and it's not inconsistent with anything else going on. Maybe he just wants to show off his Constricting ability.

Tubercular Ox, I don't know how to tell you this, but the "constrict" part of Crushing Weight of the Mountain is *specifically* the part about doing damage.

While you are in this stance, you gain the ability to constrict for 2d6 points of damage + 1-1/2 times your Str bonus (if any). You can constrict an opponent that you grapple by making a successful grapple check

In other words, if they are not dealing damage, they are not constricting, by the description of Crushing Weight of the Mountain itself.

If you want to argue that actually Malack was dealing damage to Durkon, then why would Durkon say that Malack is out of option to hurt him (and Malack agreeing he'd be right if not for the backdoor in his spell)?

It's quite a different order of magnitude to be wrong about how the grappling rules work, and being wrong about how the ability currently used against you is making you lose HPs.

Furthermore, you've also argued that Malack did not want/care to damage Durkon, but thee only thing Crushing Weight of the Mountain would have added to this grapple is damage.

[Tubercular Ox]

If you want to argue that actually Malack was dealing damage to Durkon, then why would Durkon say that Malack is out of option to hurt him (and Malack agreeing he'd be right if not for the backdoor in his spell)?

Durkon doesn't know, because Malack hasn't applied the constrict damage yet, and Malack doesn't correct him, because what he would normally do is hold Durkon until he can drain him, whether he has the power to crush the life out of Durkon or not.

Also, Malack doesn't agree with Durkon completely, he says Durkon is correct about his ward. This leaves open whether Malack agrees with any other part of Durkon's assessment.

[Unoriginal]

Durkon doesn't know, because Malack hasn't applied the constrict damage yet

Which means that Malack was not constricting Durkon.

Again, the only thing Crushing Weight of the Mountain does is damage by constricting the grappled target.

[Tubercular Ox]

Which means that Malack was not constricting Durkon.

Again, the only thing Crushing Weight of the Mountain does is damage by constricting the grappled target.

It doesn't matter when the damage gets applied, Rich is going to draw Malack as prepared to deliver the damage as soon as Malack has Durkon grappled, which is what we see. Malack has grappled Durkon, is prepared to apply constrict damage, has a conversation, then applies the constrict damage.

[Unoriginal]

It doesn't matter when the damage gets applied, Rich is going to draw Malack as prepared to deliver the damage as soon as Malack has Durkon grappled, which is what we see. Malack has grappled Durkon, is prepared to apply constrict damage, has a conversation, then applies the constrict damage.

The constrict damage is applied when the constricting is done.

Tubercular Ox, since that discussion has started, you've argued that Malack wasn't damaging Durkon, that Malack was damaging Durkon, and that it was not possible to tell if Malack was or wasn't damaging Durkon.

So which of those three it is?

If you say that Malack is not damaging Durkon, then he isn't using Crushing Weight of the Mountain.

If you say that Malack is damaging Durkon, then you have to argue that Malack isn't using Crushing Weight of the Mountain until *after* they've finished the conversation and Malack has dispelled the warding. Which goes against your argument that Malack doesn't care about damaging Durkon's HPs while he's vampire-draining him.

If you say that it is not possible to tell if Malack is or isn't damaging Durkon, then it is not possible to tell if Malack is or isn't using Crushing Weight of the Mountain.

[Tubercular Ox]

If you say that Malack is not damaging Durkon, then he isn't using Crushing Weight of the Mountain.

If you say that Malack is damaging Durkon, then you have to argue that Malack isn't using Crushing Weight of the Mountain until *after* they've finished the conversation and Malack has dispelled the warding.

Both of these are wrong. Crushing Weight of the Mountain is a stance, not a maneuver, so Malack is using it even if he's not actively constricting.

Personally I think it's appropriate for Rich to draw Malack as ready to constrict whenever he was ready to constrict, i.e. when he was grappling Durkon, regardless of other factors, but there you go.

Which goes against your argument that Malack doesn't care about damaging Durkon's HPs while he's vampire-draining him.

Not my argument. I said I don't know why Malack would constrict Durkon if his goal isn't to rob him of hit points, but it's visible in the comic and it's not inconsistent with anything else going on.

If you say that it is not possible to tell if Malack is or isn't damaging Durkon, then it is not possible to tell if Malack is or isn't using Crushing Weight of the Mountain.

Except for the previously mentioned points that Malack is visibly constricting Durkon, credits Tarquin for teaching grappling techniques to him, and Tarquin is most likely a Swordsage, meaning one of the more obvious things he could teach Malack is Crushing Weight of the Mountain. Rich is only one guy, the puzzles can't be too obtuse.

Hit points are imaginary. You see as many as you want to see. So there's an interpretation of the comic where Malack does damage, and an interpretation where he doesn't, and that doesn't mean it's not possible to tell if Malack is or isn't damaging Durkon, it means we decide. Or more specifically, you decide. I argue against you because it teaches me a lot, but from the beginning I've suspected that your position is unfalsifiable.

[dmc91356]

Trying to follow all the various arguments about maneuvers/stances/whatnot, I confess to a little confusion (not the least of which because I never actually played 3e outside of CRPG's). I thought the takeaway from one of Rich's more recent comments was that he did not envision Tarquin as a swordsage. If so, where are all these assumptions about maneuvers that only a swordsage could teach and that Tarquin is a swordsage to teach those maneuvers/stances to Malak coming from?

[Unoriginal]

Both of these are wrong. Crushing Weight of the Mountain is a stance, not a maneuver, so Malack is using it even if he's not actively constricting.

And how would anyone know he is using it if he isn't actively constricting?

Except for the previously mentioned points that Malack is visibly constricting Durkon

He is not constricting Durkon.

Maybe I should have asked this earlier, but is your definition for the term "constricting", Tubercular Ox?

Perhaps we've just been talking past each other because of that.

credits Tarquin for teaching grappling techniques to him, and Tarquin is most likely a Swordsage, meaning one of the more obvious things he could teach Malack is Crushing Weight of the Mountain.

But Crushing Weight of the Mountain does not help with grappling. The only thing it does is adding an option to damage.

You see as many as you want to see.

I certainly don't.

I don't see a character as being hurt unless the author represent it through the chosen medium.

So there's an interpretation of the comic where Malack does damage, and an interpretation where he doesn't, and that doesn't mean it's not possible to tell if Malack is or isn't damaging Durkon, it means we decide.

So your argument is that what the author chooses to represent in his comic doesn't matter, and that we as individual audience members can choose whatever we want without any indicator?

If someone told you that Roy was not hurt by Calder's breath in comic number #1296, you'd just say "hit points are imaginary, you can indeed decide Roy wasn't hurt"?

but from the beginning I've suspected that your position is unfalsifiable.

My position is certainly impossible to falsify or to prove false. Since I do not engage in falsification.


I am however always ready to have one of my positions be proved wrong/incorrect.

[Peelee]

And how would anyone know he is using it if he isn't actively constricting?



He is not constricting Durkon.

Maybe I should have asked this earlier, but is your definition for the term "constricting", Tubercular Ox?

Perhaps we've just been talking past each other because of that.

For general edification:

Constrict
A creature with this special attack can crush an opponent, dealing bludgeoning damage, after making a successful grapple check. The amount of damage is given in the creature’s entry. If the creature also has the improved grab ability it deals constriction damage in addition to damage dealt by the weapon used to grab.

Vampire
A vampire retains all the special attacks of the base creature and gains those described below.

Blood Drain (Ex)
A vampire can suck blood from a living victim with its fangs by making a successful grapple check. If it pins the foe, it drains blood, dealing 1d4 points of Constitution drain each round the pin is maintained.

[Tubercular Ox]

I thought the takeaway from one of Rich's more recent comments was that he did not envision Tarquin as a swordsage.

It's complicated. Bottom line is that additional context came in after the buzzer. Here's me trying to be brief:

I find it particularly strange that you, Tubercular Ox, insists that Tarquin being a Swordsage is what Rich intended to portray.

Because Rich personally told you he had no awareness of that theory until you asked about it:

So, does this nix "Tarquin is a Swordsage"? Cuz that Ballista Throw and the constricting stance were nova hot.

OMG, it nixes the Blue Carbuncle, too. Unless that's an ordinary Carbuncle.

I honestly enjoy having had no awareness of either of these two theories.

EDIT: Wrecan is technically a Crusader so there's still some flexibility in each category anyway.

Yes, he told me he'd never heard of the blue carbuncle theory, and then in the very swag he came to the forum to post about, he had a picture of a blue carbuncle. (Zoom in a few times and look at the forehead gem)

By analogy, I think it's possible that Tarquin is a Swordsage and Rich would still tell me he's never heard of the theory before. To speculate, I wonder if he thinks only fans have theories and when he decides the carbuncle is blue, it's a fact, not a theory. To further speculate, it is not uncommon for authors to go into lockdown when the audience starts asking them questions about parts of the story that weren't meant to be obvious, which we have seen Rich do before, e.g. Greg as a nontheistic cleric.

Also, that EDIT: is fire.

And how would anyone know he is using it if he isn't actively constricting?

Maybe Rich could find some way to draw him as ready to constrict without actually constricting.

Maybe I should have asked this earlier, but is your definition for the term "constricting", Tubercular Ox?

Different from Peelee's, because even if Rich wants to use Peelee's definition, he has to use mine to draw it.

And if Rich doesn't want to use Peelee's definition, he still needs mine to draw it anyways.

And how on earth is he supposed to draw the difference between using my definition as a proxy for Peelee's definition, and using my definition on its own?

If someone told you that Roy was not hurt by Calder's breath in comic number #1296, you'd just say "hit points are imaginary, you can indeed decide Roy wasn't hurt"?

If the argument were about Calder's age, and you were arguing that he couldn't be more than Old because that doesn't look like 18d10 damage, I feel like it would more accurately reflect my frustration with the situation. Durkon is constricted, he's in pain, he even cries out at one point, but it's not enough damage for you because your eye is faithful to Rich's intent and I have to beg your permission for it to be seen any other way.

And, again, if I were just throwing Martial Study and Martial Stance as two random feats Malack could take to duplicate the situation, your frustration would be more understandable to me. But the context of it being a maneuver that Tarquin could teach him, that's easy to draw so that the audience has a chance of figuring it out, is very important to me. The puzzle cannot be too obtuse, Rich is just one guy.

[dmc91356]

Durkon is constricted, he's in pain, he even cries out at one point, but it's not enough damage for you because your eye is faithful to Rich's intent and I have to beg your permission for it to be seen any other way.

On this bit, Malak literally had his fangs in Durkon the entire time and was drawing all of his blood and killing him. Why do you think the crying out relates to constriction, as opposed to having his very life sucked out of him?

That seems odd to me.

[Unoriginal]

Maybe Rich could find some way to draw him as ready to constrict without actually constricting.

[...]

Durkon is constricted

Is Durkon constricted, or is Malack ready to constrict him without actually constricting?

Only one can be true at the same moment.

he's in pain

Which panel?

he even cries out at one point

Which panel?

[Peelee]

Peelee's definition

For the record, i title it "Peelee's Ye Olde SRDe" because a.) it amuses me, and 2.) to signal that, while verbatim, it is not the entirety of the entry. It is not "my" definition. It is the RAW definition. Copy/pasted from the online SRD, and only edited so as to focus on the parts I think are most relevant to the discussion.

[Tubercular Ox]

On this bit, Malak literally had his fangs in Durkon the entire time and was drawing all of his blood and killing him. Why do you think the crying out relates to constriction, as opposed to having his very life sucked out of him?

I don't. I don't actually care. I can see that Malack is constricting Durkon and that is enough for me. People are telling me they want to see more pain before they agree with me, and to me it feels like this is a free choice. You can choose to see that Malack is putting all his effort in, including constricting, or you can choose to see Malack being restrained and only doing the bite. You can choose.

Is Durkon constricted, or is Malack ready to constrict him without actually constricting?

Only one can be true at the same moment.

There are lots of panels. There are lots of sensible ways to pick which is which that also permit this being Crushing Weight of the Mountain. One very detailed thing you can do is order the panels from least to most pain, then draw a line somewhere in the middle, saying that to one end he is ready, and to the other he is constricting. If you do it this way, you can see that the spectrum is constant but where you draw the line is an entirely free choice. You can say that he is constricting in every panel, you can say that he is ready in every panel, you can pick something in between because you think it improves the story.

Which panel?

Last panel, sixth panel are, in my opinion, the farthest to the pain on the spectrum.

For the record, i title it "Peelee's Ye Olde SRDe" because a.) it amuses me, and 2.) to signal that, while verbatim, it is not the entirety of the entry. It is not "my" definition. It is the RAW definition. Copy/pasted from the online SRD, and only edited so as to focus on the parts I think are most relevant to the discussion.

I am sorry. You provided a valuable service and I name-checked you. That was wrong.