Why Healing magic isn't necromancy

[....]

My friends and I have had several discussions about healing spells being necromancy and not conjuration. They always say things like manipulation of life energy ect. ect..

But I was thinking, magical healing isn't the manipulation of life energy, or even the changing of wounds on a body. It dosn't take any knowledge of human anatomy to heal it with magic. Healing magic is the conjuring up of positive energy and infusing it into the body of a living thing. Its really just a happy side effect of positive energy that it heals damage done to living bodies. Hence why anyone who goes to the Positive Energy Plane heals and then gets extra HP and then explodes like a balloon with to much water in it.

So, any thoughts? Am I wrong? Am I right?

[Nerd-o-rama]

So why is channeling Negative Energy (see the Inflict Wounds series) Necromancy?

[Kyeudo]

Creating energy is normaly the Evocation school. However, messing with Positive and Negative Energy, the energies of life and death, is Necromancy. Cure Light Wounds should be a Necromancy spell.

[Daracaex]

Necromancy. Let's break that down into it's latin roots.

-Mancy: suffix for "magic." Thus, we have cryomancy as ice magic or terramancy as earth magic.

Necro-: prefix for death. In example: Necrophobia is fear of death or necrophilia is- ok, let's not go there.

So Necromancy together would be "death magic." Inflict Wounds makes sense to be necromancy because it draws the subject closer to death with negative energy. The cure spells have nothing to do with death, other than preventing it. I whole-heartedly agree with .... (the topic creator).

[TheElfLord]

-Mancy: suffix for "magic." Thus, we have cryomancy as ice magic or terramancy as earth magic.

Actually, -mancy is the suffix for divination. The term necromancy originally meant calling up spirits to gain knowlege of future events. Hydromancy, is using water to determine the future.

It was only in the late Middle Ages where necromancy seems to have taken on an "evil magic" characteristic, probobly after being confused and finally merging with the term nigromancy, or black magic.

Looking at the origin of words is often a bad idea in DnD, because the real world origin bares little resemblence to the RPG useage.

[Yuki Akuma]

Healing magic is the manipulation of life energy, because that's what positive energy is.

[Mewtarthio]

It's under Conjuration because WotC considers Necromancy to be uniformly evil.

[Chibiqueso]

It's under Conjuration because WotC considers Necromancy to be uniformly evil.

But poking things with swords and dousing them in fireballs? Totally OK (Well, CAN be totally OK).

[Dausuul]

My friends and I have had several discussions about healing spells being necromancy and not conjuration. They always say things like manipulation of life energy ect. ect..

But I was thinking, magical healing isn't the manipulation of life energy, or even the changing of wounds on a body. It dosn't take any knowledge of human anatomy to heal it with magic. Healing magic is the conjuring up of positive energy and infusing it into the body of a living thing. Its really just a happy side effect of positive energy that it heals damage done to living bodies. Hence why anyone who goes to the Positive Energy Plane heals and then gets extra HP and then explodes like a balloon with to much water in it.

So, any thoughts? Am I wrong? Am I right?

I think the problem a lot of people have with healing (i.e., positive energy manipulation) being Conjuration is that the Necromancy school is pretty much all dedicated to manipulating negative energy and controlling negative energy critters (i.e., undead). But Conjuration does a lot of stuff besides manipulate positive energy and control living critters. It would be less of a problem if negative and positive energy weren't set up to be so symmetric in other ways.

[infinitypanda]

Necromancy. Let's break that down into it's latin roots.

-Mancy: suffix for "magic." Thus, we have cryomancy as ice magic or terramancy as earth magic.

Necro-: prefix for death. In example: Necrophobia is fear of death or necrophilia is- ok, let's not go there.

So Necromancy together would be "death magic." Inflict Wounds makes sense to be necromancy because it draws the subject closer to death with negative energy. The cure spells have nothing to do with death, other than preventing it. I whole-heartedly agree with .... (the topic creator).

So, if we're going by Latin roots, does that mean that healing spells (life magic) should be a new category called vivimancy?

[Mewtarthio]

So, if we're going by Latin roots, does that mean that healing spells (life magic) should be a new category called vivimancy?

Divination through life? I like that. It sounds like it should mean, "foretelling the future by living your life and waiting to see what happens." Either that or "foretelling the future by stabbing people and measuring how long it takes them to die."

[Maerok]

Latin? What's that? In the Material Plane there is no Latin, but by sheer chance necro- assumed the same meaning. What are the odds?

[Duke Malagigi]

The word necro comes from the Greek word nekro, meaning corpse or body. In other words, it was divination using or affecting the body. By expanding -mancy or mantia to mean "magic" you would have necromancy meaning corpse or body magic. The word thanatos was Greek for death.

[TheOOB]

Healing would work as conjuration if it conjured healed flesh to fill the wounds,but it doesn't, it channels positive energy which accelerates the healing process. Conjuration doesn't deal with the direct manipulation of energy really.

Healing makes sense as either evocation or necromancy. Evocation deals with all things energy, so it is a perfect ally valid fit, especially if you want the whole necromancy=evil thing in your game. Necromancy deals with negative energy, life, and death, and allready has some spells that deal with positive energy, so it is also a valid fit, especially if you want necromancy to not come off as all evil.

Really it doesn't matter a great deal. The only class that cares a great deal about spell schools (wizard), doesn't using healing spells, so as long as you are consistent in what school healing magic is in, it doesn't affect things too terribly much.

I personally choose to make it necromancy, just as evocation handles hot and cold, necromancy handles life or death. A divine necromancer has the choice of life or death, holding the mortal forces in the palm of their hand. It's a very cool image IMO.

[Solo]

Necromancy. Let's break that down into it's latin roots.

-Mancy: suffix for "magic." Thus, we have cryomancy as ice magic or terramancy as earth magic.

Necro-: prefix for death. In example: Necrophobia is fear of death or necrophilia is- ok, let's not go there.

So Necromancy together would be "death magic." Inflict Wounds makes sense to be necromancy because it draws the subject closer to death with negative energy. The cure spells have nothing to do with death, other than preventing it. I whole-heartedly agree with .... (the topic creator).

What is this "Japan" you speak of?

[Kantolin]

It would also be interesting if inflict spells were conjuration on the same lines of healing spells being conjuration.

Then they'd be 'Conjuring energy from the negative energy plane' and would match up to 'Conjuring energy from the positive energy plane'.

[Mewtarthio]

What is this "Japan" you speak of?

That argument's invalid here. The actual name for the school is some obscure thing in Draconic, possibly with some slang in other various languages (eg Common). It translates into English as "Necromancy."

[Lemur]

It used to be necromancy in earlier editions. If it bothers you, it's not so hard to houserule it. I doubt it will really make a major difference in your games.

[OneWinged4ngel]

healing magic is the conjuring up of positive energy and infusing it into the body of a living thing.

Doing the exact same with negative energy is necromancy. Why the double standard?

[Doresain]

if you think about it, wouldnt positive energy cause tumors?

[John Campbell]

Note that the rare wizard spells that heal (healing touch) or infuse things with positive energy (disrupt undead) are necromancy.

[Duke Malagigi]

if you think about it, wouldnt positive energy cause tumors?

Treatable with Negative Energy. Also, in First and Second Edition, Positive Energy was associated with the sun as well as with healing. The sun is a natural example of nuclear fussion.

[Gralamin]

My friends and I have had several discussions about healing spells being necromancy and not conjuration. They always say things like manipulation of life energy ect. ect..

But I was thinking, magical healing isn't the manipulation of life energy, or even the changing of wounds on a body. It dosn't take any knowledge of human anatomy to heal it with magic. Healing magic is the conjuring up of positive energy and infusing it into the body of a living thing. Its really just a happy side effect of positive energy that it heals damage done to living bodies. Hence why anyone who goes to the Positive Energy Plane heals and then gets extra HP and then explodes like a balloon with to much water in it.

So, any thoughts? Am I wrong? Am I right?

Simple argument that completely stops yours:
Then why can't you gain Temporary HP and burst with cure light wounds?

[Duke Malagigi]

Note that the rare wizard spells that heal (healing touch) or infuse things with positive energy (disrupt undead) are necromancy.

As were all healing spells in First and Second Edition. Also Good-aligned clerics and paladins could cast animate dead if they have a perfectly good and morally justifible reason for doing so. Both I wouldn't mind to see more of in Third Edition.

[Skjaldbakka]

That argument's invalid here. The actual name for the school is some obscure thing in Draconic, possibly with some slang in other various languages (eg Common). It translates into English as "Necromancy."

Necromancy in D&D =/= "Necro(death)" + "mancy(magic)"

SRD:
Necromancy spells manipulate the power of death, unlife, and the life force. Spells involving undead creatures make up a large part of this school.

I don't really care whether healing spells are necromancy or conjuration. I do think it is inconsistent for inflicts to be necromancy if cures are conjuration, since cure/inflict are supposed to be opposite one another.

[Mewtarthio]

Simple argument that completely stops yours:
Then why can't you gain Temporary HP and burst with cure light wounds?

Because the Positive Energy Plane is filled with Positive Energy in its purest form. There is no ambient negative energy in the plane, nor any connections to the Negative Energy Plane at all, to counterbalance its effects. In the Prime Material Plane, however, all things contain a mixture of positive and negative energy. Living things contain mostly positive energy, true, but there is also a significant amount of ambient negative energy. Furthermore, the positive energy in cure spells is channeled through a cleric, and loses some of its potency in the process. It is possible to concentrate this energy to heal to great effect (the heal spell duplicates half an hour's exposure to the Positive Energy Plane within seconds), but the fact remains that the Prime Material Plane still has links to the Negative Energy Plane. As such, a creature's resevior of positive energy cannot exceed what it could naturally achieve--or, more accurately, excess positive energy simply 'bleeds' out with no effect, cancelled by the negative energy of the material plane.

[Fishy]

Simple argument that completely stops yours:
Then why can't you gain Temporary HP and burst with cure light wounds?

Same reason that you can't start fires with Scorching Ray.

[JadedDM]

To say that healing is conjuration because you're 'conjuring' positive energy could be applied to almost any spell. Fireball is conjuration, because you're conjuring a fireball. Gust of Wind is conjuration, because you're conjuring a gust of wind. Magic Missile is conjuration, because you're conjuring up magical arrows. And so on.

[Skjaldbakka]

To say that healing is conjuration because you're 'conjuring' positive energy could be applied to almost any spell.

I detect an unintentional straw man here. That isn't what they are saying. What they are saying is that curing spells work by conjuring pure positive energy from the outer planes, and channeling it into a living being. Which is what the spell does. That is why choice of turn/rebuke effects what a cleric casts spontaneously. The problem with that is that inflicts remained necromancy. By that reasoning, they should also be conjuration.

A fireball spell does not work by conjuring fire from the elemental plane of fire. The orb of flame spell does work that way. Fireball creates an explosion of magical flame.

[TheOOB]

If you search hard enough you can find an excuse for almost any spell to be in almost any school, it's not that you can't find a reason healing might be conjuration, it's just that evocation and necromancy both make a little more sense.