El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 20 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

[KillianHawkeye]

(also, they are teens.)

This is the biggest thing. I think most kids that age are overwhelmed navigating the stormy sea of hormones, so they overreact and jump to conclusions because everything in their life is coming at them at maximum speed and everything's SUPER IMPORTANT all the time, and they don't know how to deal. Feels like some people who're criticizing these characters maybe don't remember what being a teenager was like, or had atypical life experiences.

[Celestia]

This is the biggest thing. I think most kids that age are overwhelmed navigating the stormy sea of hormones, so they overreact and jump to conclusions because everything in their life is coming at them at maximum speed and everything's SUPER IMPORTANT all the time, and they don't know how to deal. Feels like some people who're criticizing these characters maybe don't remember what being a teenager was like, or had atypical life experiences.

That is a consideration, but I think the bigger issue is even simpler than that. This is a story in progress. We do not have all the context for every scene. We don't even have the whole scene most of the time. Despite this, some people want to make judgement calls about it as if this were a completed work, which is completely unfair to both the story and the author. It's the audience jumping to conclusions.

[Windscion]

Well carp. Also Lake carp. River carp? (Edit: Phew! Carp are freshwater fish.)
Noah's eye. And his mother's parent's naive, joyful faith in the master of fire implies a lot of painful regrets ahead for them.
Or to put it another way: hit right in the feels.

[Rater202]

Well carp. Also Lake carp. River carp? (Edit: Phew! Carp are freshwater fish.)
Noah's eye. And his mother's naive, joyful faith in the master of fire implies a lot of painful regrets ahead for her.
Or to put it another way: critical hit right in the feels.

"I never knew my mother, and my father was a bitter, quick-tempered fanatic who helped create Damien, the monster that killed him and many others."

Combine that with Painted Black noting that Damien as made by religious fanatics who got tired of waiting...

Yeah, that's almost certainly Noah's father and something must have happened to sour his father.

...Could also be that Noah's father was gender non-conforming, given the emphasis on a lack of a gender binary the second panel.

[Anonymouswizard]

Yeah, I'm guessing that Noah's parent is NB, while Noah is probably cis (seeing his dislike of being gendered as female).

Also I wonder what's up with Noah's eye in panel three. I suppose he's likely just shifted it.

[WanderingMist]

He said he didn't want to leave us with this for thanksgiving weekend so clearly he has something even worse planned for that.

[Radar]

Yeah, I'm guessing that Noah's parent is NB, while Noah is probably cis (seeing his dislike of being gendered as female).

Also I wonder what's up with Noah's eye in panel three. I suppose he's likely just shifted it.

Did we ever see his left eye before? Since he apparently cannot hide the antennae, maybe he is stuck like that with one Uryuom eye?

[Anonymouswizard]

Did we ever see his left eye before? Since he apparently cannot hide the antennae, maybe he is stuck like that with one Uryuom eye?

Yeah, I went back ~4 comics to check clearly two human eyes while being straddled by Diane.

[Windscion]

Yeah, I'm guessing that Noah's parent is NB, while Noah is probably cis (seeing his dislike of being gendered as female).

Or, just a stab in the dark here, he doesn't like being jeered at by his classmates?
I forgot/misread Noah saying he didn't remember his mother.

[Vinyadan]

I've been wondering for a while if Noah is the equivalent to Archie in Ellen's dream world.

[Rater202]

I've been wondering for a while if Noah is the equivalent to Archie in Ellen's dream world.

Dan denied that years ago.

We saw Noah's eye for the first time all the way back in the final page of Temple of Swedish Furniture. It looked like a normal eye, but had two reflections of light instead of one.

If I had to hazard a guess, Noah probably has either a wand or a bit of Uryuom Tech that lets him disguise his eye, but by the time he got it he was so used to hiding his eye with his hair that he kept doing that.

And the TF Gun is explicitly much more advanced than commonly available, so whatever Noah has access to, if it's based on Uryuom tech, isn't able to hide his antenna.

...it's also possible that Raven enchanted Noah, now that I think about it. A transformation Enchantment would do that and, since Noah is a Greater Chimera he'd absorb it an be able to assume that form at will.

(It's the Lespuko DNA that lets Grace combine forms)

[Radar]

Today's NP reminds me of the Cigarette Smoking Man from X-files: originally intended as an unnamed background extra that got remade into the main antagonist because of the widespread fandom reaction and all the theories floating about his possible significance.

[Anonymouswizard]

Also, Larry, have a brain. If Geoff the Cleric was important to the plot they'd have a name.

[Fyraltari]

Also, Larry, have a brain. If Geoff the Cleric was important to the plot they'd have a name.

Nah, this is a crime thriller, suspecting the unnamed spearholder who show up briefly in the first act to be important to the resolution of the crime is kind of valid.



Also players just kind of do these things.

[Taevyr]

Nah, this is a crime thriller, suspecting the unnamed spearholder who show up briefly in the first act to be important to the resolution of the crime is kind of valid.



Also players just kind of do these things.

Reminds me of the time my tabletop group decided there had to be something special about the bare-bones, Cr 1/8 skeleton who avoided 4 killing blows in a row and downed the fighter with two crits after the third and fourth. That damn pile of bones was far too capable to be merely a pile of bones. Became a whole thing, and our DM happily played into it.

Never forget the undead horror that was formerly known as John Henry James IV.

[Vinyadan]

Maybe Noah's Uryom eye is normally kept hidden because of heightened sensorial perception, in a similar way to how Grace tends to keep her antennae off.

By the way, I like how the antennae, as the strongest sensorial organs, are used to touch and show tenderness in a way similar to how we use our very sensitive hands, or many animals use their noses and tongues.

[Rater202]

Pointy Ears on Sis-Mode Diane.

[Windscion]

So now that Rhoda has grow up and left the nest, along comes Noah. Diane will appreciate having someone to boss around take care of.

[Vinyadan]

"You know what? We should cosplay Zelda!"

[Taevyr]

Pointy Ears on Sis-Mode Diane.

Huh, didn't catch that first read. Nice detail

[Windscion]

Wandering a bit far afield, but I wonder if Raven has any idea that Tedd is a wizard/seer.
The reason I mention this is if Diane's ears are going to manifest, she'll want to talk to someone -- could be Raven, could be Tedd -- about supressing/hiding them. Or, y'know, making them permanent since she likes the idea.
(https://www.egscomics.com/comic/party-223)

[Maat Mons]

Anyone want to speculate on how long quarter-immortals like Diane live? More specifically, could Adrian Raven's firstborn still be kicking around somewhere?

[Radar]

I am wondering if the current outburst about checking if Noah is fine comes partially from the fact that Diane is adopted and possible related abandonment issues.

[Anonymouswizard]

Anyone want to speculate on how long quarter-immortals like Diane live? More specifically, could Adrian Raven's firstborn still be kicking around somewhere?

Hmmmm... I'd say it depends on how common elves are. But according to Raven they'd have been born in his 20s, so we're looking at what, 200 years at an absolute minimum, more likely half a millennium? I forget if it was ever established as to when Blaike lived.

By the time it hits Susan levels it's clearly not that much of a boost, but we're also talking like a hundred generations removed at that point.

Also going by the fact that most immortals are specifically hiding the fact that elves are fertile I'd say that past the first generation it's probably not a significant boost to lifespan. Immortals already have issues with having kids, elves don't seem to have the same sanity issues with age so they likely have to deal with outliving their kids several times over.

Although I suspect that if Adrian had known he'd likely have tracked down his first kid and acted as grandad to all of their descendants.

...

What if Van is Raven's kid, and he's gone off to look into that possibility? If so he'll definitely come back to Moperville with Noriko and Van in tow, on the day of the wedding.

[Fyraltari]

Hmmmm... I'd say it depends on how common elves are. But according to Raven they'd have been born in his 20s, so we're looking at what, 200 years at an absolute minimum, more likely half a millennium? I forget if it was ever established as to when Blaike lived.

By the time it hits Susan levels it's clearly not that much of a boost, but we're also talking like a hundred generations removed at that point.

"Half a millenium [...] hundred generations"
That... that's some pretty early pregnancies you got there, chief.

But also, yeah, if the descendant of elves had a noticeable increase in lifespans, I think it would have been noticed.

[Rater202]

Hmmmm... I'd say it depends on how common elves are. But according to Raven they'd have been born in his 20s, so we're looking at what, 200 years at an absolute minimum, more likely half a millennium? I forget if it was ever established as to when Blaike lived.

By the time it hits Susan levels it's clearly not that much of a boost, but we're also talking like a hundred generations removed at that point.

Also going by the fact that most immortals are specifically hiding the fact that elves are fertile I'd say that past the first generation it's probably not a significant boost to lifespan. Immortals already have issues with having kids, elves don't seem to have the same sanity issues with age so they likely have to deal with outliving their kids several times over.

Although I suspect that if Adrian had known he'd likely have tracked down his first kid and acted as grandad to all of their descendants.

...

What if Van is Raven's kid, and he's gone off to look into that possibility? If so he'll definitely come back to Moperville with Noriko and Van in tow, on the day of the wedding.

Raven doesn't strike me as the type to sleep with his students, even if said students are much older now than otherwise.

...Though he did say that it's hi fault that Norko and Edward were no longer together. I assumed that that was because he overly encouraged her pursuit of magical power, but...

[Fyraltari]

Yeah, also even if Noriko isn't the nicest person, I think that she'd have told Raven he isn't actually infertile.

Also, also, the fact that he can make good guesses at who Diane's mother and Susan's ancestor are based on nothing but Diane's age and Susan being "a distant descendant" despite them being one-night stands (and his own words on the matter) strongly suggests that he hasn't had many sexual encounters in his centuries of life.

Which makes me ponder whether the notion that half-immortals are less likely to successfully procreate is even true to begin with. Maybe they just all have a low sex drive?

[Rater202]

Yeah, also even if Noriko isn't the nicest person, I think that she'd have told Raven he isn't actually infertile.

Also, also, the fact that he can make good guesses at who Diane's mother and Susan's ancestor are based on nothing but Diane's age and Susan being "a distant descendant" despite them being one-night stands (and his own words on the matter) strongly suggests that he hasn't had many sexual encounters in his centuries of life.

Which makes me ponder whether the notion that half-immortals are less likely to successfully procreate is even true to begin with. Maybe they just all have a low sex drive?

I mean, from a strictly biological perspective the fact that they have eternal youth would correlate to a low sex drive and rate of fertility.

The longer an organism lives and remains in it's prime, the less need there is to reproduce.

And we honestly have no idea how fertile Immortals are. It's entirely possible that all elves are the product of either particularly promiscuous immortals or else an immortal directly trying to conceive a child.

[Maat Mons]

I assumed it was less about having a low sex drive, and more about not wanting to form close emotional bonds with he's going to outlive many times over. Really, one night stands make the most sense if you don't want to wind up carrying a torch for several hundred years.

As for number of partners, I don't think we know where Adrian ranks on the Kinsey scale. He's clearly had at least two encounters with women, but those two encounters could be anywhere from 100% to... some very small number % of his experiences.

Actually, since half-immortals have a very low fertility rate, if Adrian has had exactly two encounters with women, and also exactly two children, he's quite the statistical anomaly. Maybe Diane just looks a lot like her mother, and Susan somehow looks a lot like her unspecified distant ancestor.

[Rater202]

I assumed it was less about having a low sex drive, and more about not wanting to form close emotional bonds with he's going to outlive many times over. Really, one night stands make the most sense if you don't want to wind up carrying a torch for several hundred years.

As for number of partners, I don't think we know where Adrian ranks on the Kinsey scale. He's clearly had at least two encounters with women, but those two encounters could be anywhere from 100% to... some very small number % of his experiences.

Actually, since half-immortals have a very low fertility rate, if Adrian has had exactly two encounters with women, and also exactly two children, he's quite the statistical anomaly. Maybe Diane just looks a lot like her mother, and Susan somehow looks a lot like her unspecified distant ancestor.

...Raven does look a lot like Susan's dad.