El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 20 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18

[Anonymouswizard]

From the commentary: "That moment the players have questions you SO do not have answers for".

Yes Dan, that's at least 75% of DM'ing, and that's when you had good prep time

There's a reason why about 90% of my prep time is spent on NPC stats

But yeah, there's better ways to handle this than what Ellen's chosen. It's not a bad way, but it is strong arming her players into following a specific lead. I'd personally have asked for a Persuasion roll, then some sort of Investigation or Logic roll (depending on system) to get the relevant information out of it.

THEN I'd suggest that said guard just caught a cold.

Most likely it's a pair of guards who can vouch for the other, alongside a servant or maid who left the house at a convenient time.

[Radar]

There's a reason why about 90% of my prep time is spent on NPC stats

But yeah, there's better ways to handle this than what Ellen's chosen. It's not a bad way, but it is strong arming her players into following a specific lead. I'd personally have asked for a Persuasion roll, then some sort of Investigation or Logic roll (depending on system) to get the relevant information out of it.

THEN I'd suggest that said guard just caught a cold.

Most likely it's a pair of guards who can vouch for the other, alongside a servant or maid who left the house at a convenient time.

There might be better ways to handle this, but how many can you think of on the spot, when a player blindsides you like that? Add to that the fact, that Ellen did not have any preparation time - just a ready-made scenario she did not even have much time to familiarize herself with.

[WanderingMist]

Oh no, it's a game master's worst nightmare! A player's real-life area of expertise!

One that Ellen should have 100% known about considering she was half the mystery-solving duo, who figured out the mystery of how the prized lockpicking gorilla escaped. Truly, the most difficult mystery of all.

[KillianHawkeye]

Ellen is still roleplaying as the King or whoever. I wouldn't call her suggesting an alternative course of action "strong arming" the party.

[Maat Mons]

Diane is straddling some strange boy. The law of comedic timing says that Lucy should walk in now.

[Windscion]

Diane is straddling some strange boy. The law of comedic timing says that Lucy should walk in now.

That would probably force things into the open pretty quickly.
Well, ugly quickly, more like.

[Vinyadan]

If I had a girlfriend who wears Roman armor as a long skirt, I'd try not to make her angry.

Really, those look a lot like studded leather stripes.

[Gez]

If I had a girlfriend who wears Roman armor as a long skirt, I'd try not to make her angry.

Really, those look a lot like studded leather stripes.

Dan has had fun dressing her in stealth cosplay outfit. It's been going on for a while.

[WanderingMist]

Diane is straddling some strange boy. The law of comedic timing says that Lucy should walk in now.

Hey, look who was spot-on! More the law of dramatic timing than comedic but still.

[Taevyr]

Dan has had fun dressing her in stealth cosplay outfit. It's been going on for a while.

Xena seems to be the touchstone for Lucy's clothing style, and I personally really like how it's done. Complements her personality quite well too.

[Fyraltari]

With regards to the NP, this is starting to look like the kind of quest where I would side with the traitor over the quest-giver.

[Anonymouswizard]

With regards to the NP, this is starting to look like the kind of quest where I would side with the traitor over the quest-giver.

Are we absolutely certain the chicken isn't the mayor?

[Fyraltari]

Are we absolutely certain the chicken isn't the mayor?

Yes, we do.

[Windscion]

Damn, Noah. I get that you aren't fond of secrets, but BOUNDARIES, dude.

[Gez]

Damn, Noah. I get that you aren't fond of secrets, but BOUNDARIES, dude.

That's for the best. Lucy "Lawless Cosplay" here was going ballistic with conspiracy theories and Diane was too dead set looking for a deflection to calm her down.

[Windscion]

Oh look, Diane and Lucy did not appreciate Noah's interference.
This is why boundaries matter.

[Rater202]

...Bit of hypocrisy on Lucy's part.

When it was Diane keeping secrets, Lucy just had to know but now ha someone's told her it's "no, Diane's boundaries matter."

[Gez]

Oh look, Diane and Lucy did not appreciate Noah's interference.
This is why boundaries matter.

Did we read the same comic? Lucy's the one who broke boundaries.
https://www.egscomics.com/comic/brother-003 + https://www.egscomics.com/comic/brother-004
https://www.egscomics.com/comic/brother-010 + https://www.egscomics.com/comic/brother-011

But anyway, Noah has successfully redirected Lucy's unreasonable anger from Diane to himself, and since he's not the one who's burdened with Lucy as a girlfriend, it's of no consequence to him. Mission accomplished, I'd say.

[Devlerbat]

Question: Is "Can we talk about this latter I am not ready to say just yet" not a perfectly valid option and the healthiest answer?


Granted it was clear to Noah that it was not the answer Diane was going with and the sentiment would have meant nothing coming from him (as for Diane; flawed characters and all that).

[Windscion]

Did we read the same comic? Lucy's the one who broke boundaries.
https://www.egscomics.com/comic/brother-003 + https://www.egscomics.com/comic/brother-004
https://www.egscomics.com/comic/brother-010 + https://www.egscomics.com/comic/brother-011

But anyway, Noah has successfully redirected Lucy's unreasonable anger from Diane to himself, and since he's not the one who's burdened with Lucy as a girlfriend, it's of no consequence to him. Mission accomplished, I'd say.

Clearly we do not read the same comic, as Lucy was well within her rights to ask those questions. Also by saying "[Noah]'s not the one who's burdened with Lucy as a girlfriend" it you make it clear that that you have a problem wth Lucy. I don't really care why, so I am disengaging.

[Maat Mons]

I think the important thing here is that, in panel 5, it looks like Noah's floating up into the air... right after Lucy called him "balloon head." Clearly, she just accidentally activated a magic mark based around turning figures of speech literal.

[Gez]

Clearly we do not read the same comic, as Lucy was well within her rights to ask those questions. Also by saying "[Noah]'s not the one who's burdened with Lucy as a girlfriend" it you make it clear that that you have a problem wth Lucy. I don't really care why, so I am disengaging.

Yes, I find her behavior (instantly getting angry, inventing fantasy scenarios and throwing wild accusations) to be really off-putting and that makes me dislike her, while I had before this arc no problem with her.

The fact that after learning what had troubled Diane, her reaction is to confront Noah (because he gave her the answer to the question she was screaming out loud) instead of comforting Diane, says a lot about her.

[Pax1138]

I don't know, I just did a quick reread of the story so far, and it seems to make sense to me. Lucy asked her girlfriend why she'd been acting so weird for what seems to be a week or so, and gets a ridiculous, obvious lie in return, so of course she's angry! But then, when Noah blurts out the truth, she realizes Diane had good reasons, even if she wasn't handling it well. Also she was mad at Noah for hurting and/or embarassing her girlfriend. Maybe not an optimal response, but and understandable one.

[KillianHawkeye]

Yes, I find her behavior (instantly getting angry, inventing fantasy scenarios and throwing wild accusations) to be really off-putting and that makes me dislike her, while I had before this arc no problem with her.

Hello, perhaps you have never met a teenager before? Masters of social skills, they are not. This observation is directed at all three of the characters here, by the way. None of them handled this situation well at all.

[Gez]

Point was when she figured out Diane was hiding something from her, her reaction was direct confrontation (in a public place, so she didn't get the idea that maybe Diane would rather discuss whatever matter troubles her in private without random eavesdroppers), threat of physical violence (look at that "is that a yes?" panel again, she's clearly eager to get into a brawl), and jealousy (since she immediately assumed an ex-boyfriend was the issue).

And, once again, after being told what emotional rollercoaster Diane had been on and understanding why she was acting like this, her reaction is to insult and attack Noah instead of dropping her aggressive behavior and turning to Diane with words of comfort and understanding, like "oh gosh are you okay" or something. She seems too focused on being aggressive and confrontational to be paying attention to her SO, and that's to me a massive red flag.

[KillianHawkeye]

She was angry. She can't just stop being angry with a flip of a switch, no one can. Redirecting the anger onto a more deserving source is the best she can do until everyone takes a moment to catch their breath.

To be clear, I'm not saying this isn't a possible issue she has to work on. It probably is. But it's also extremely understandable for a character in her position. Wait to see if she can recover from this before leaping to judgement.

[Celestia]

Oh, look at that! Lucy made a mistake due to her emotional state but then realized she did wrong and apologized! Turns out that a character getting angry and unreasonable is not automatically confirmation that they are an irredeemable, toxic a-hole who deserves nothing but scorn and hate!

[Windscion]

Well Diane and Noah screwed up as well. Diane is interesting in that she is the first major character we have seen confronting their own actions multiple times.
Noah, like Grace, has gaps in his social conditioning. (https://www.egscomics.com/comic/2005-02-28 and https://www.egscomics.com/comic/2011-03-07), so I'm inclined to cut him some slack.
Some.

[Vinyadan]

I think these three are all very fallible people, so it isn't suprising if they mess up once in a while. Noah comes from a family in a cult, may suffer from serious PTSD, plus he tried to sell his soul for power (or somesuch), and used to be in a relationship with someone who was openly in love with someone else; plus, who knows how many secrets and grudges he's had to carry his whole life. Diane and Lucy had their routine of getting boys to give them gifts, and the way their relationship started seemed to me superficial on Diane's side.

To be honest, it's an interesting deviation from the main cast.

(also, they are teens.)

[Radar]

Diane and Lucy had their routine of getting boys to give them gifts, and the way their relationship started seemed to me superficial on Diane's side.

Which frankly might also make Lucy additionally insecure about their relationship.