Matrix Resurrections Review Thread

[Ramza00]

In the past decade the Christmas week has emerged as the single most profitable interval at the box office in the US. Americans go to the movies over Christmas, and they bring family members who rarely see movies along with them. As a result the receipts for all films released over Christmas are inflated compared to films released at other times. The schedule is not neutral.

Studios know this, of course, and they set their release slate to maximize this effect whenever possible. It was not a coincidence that Disney released four Star Wars films at Christmas, nor it is one that Spider-Man got the weekend this time around. Likewise the Matrix sequel is well positioned to take advantage of this as well. Is really isn't possible to know how much of a scheduling related boost this film actually received, but it's worth keeping that in mind.

Not going to figure out the numbers for "Christmas Week" instead hyperfocusing on Christmas Day for I think that is pattern enough, but here is the last 5 years prior to pandemic, and 2020 and 2021 Christmas Day.

_58 million 183,925 thousand (2021)
Spider-Man No Way Home, 31.6 million (54.3%)
Matrix Resurrections, 4.65 million (8.0%)
_10 million 214,882 thousand (2020)
Wonder Woman 1984, 7.48 million (73.2%)

_78 million 632,563 thousand (2019)
Star Wars Episode 9 32.1 million (40.9%)
_78 million 463,841 thousand (2020)
Aquaman, 21.9 million (28%)
_81 million 472,493 thousand (2017)
Star Wars Episode 8 27.4 million (33.7%)
_83 million 122,128 thousand (2016)
Rogue One A Star Wars Story 25.8 million (31.1%)
103 million 117,445 thousand (2015)
Star Wars Episode 7 49.3 million (47.8%)
https://www.boxofficemojo.com/holida...alendarGrosses

As you can see most years get about 80 million on Christmas Day box office from the United States (not going to talk Worldwide numbers for it is more math, and the 72 million so far is Worldwide numbers).

And we in a middle of a pandemic, so all the US movies only are at 72% of an 80 million weekend with the 58 million that happened this year. That is a big deal, especially when Omnicron was announced (I Hope We Get Good Numbers for this in Dec 2021 and Jan 2022, for it is far more important than money.)

[Peelee]

In the past decade the Christmas week has emerged as the single most profitable interval at the box office in the US.

"Emerged"? It's been almost two decades since I worked at a theater and when I came in it was already long-established that Christmas was far and away the busiest time of the year. Everything sells out. People will come up and ask for a ticket but what they want is sold out. So they ask for a later time in the day, but it's sold out. So they ask for a different movie, but it's sold out. So they ask what isn't sold out and if they're lucky they get to see some crap movie released around Christmas specifically to pick up some overflow ticket sales because everything will sell out. Inside, it's a madhouse. Pure insanity, cats and dogs living together, just a madhouse. One year I interlocked six freaking screens, for crying out loud! And what's more amazing, I didn't even use the longest leader we had, which was not brand new (I'd eat my hat if that thing wasn't used for Revenge of the Sith).

It may have just emerged as the "most profitable" period in the last ten years (assuming that claim is true), but it has long been a madhouse time when pretty much everyone and their mom goes to the movies.

Don't go to the movies on Christmas. You will not enjoy it. Go on New Years Eve. It's deader than dead. Good odds you'll have a whole auditorium to yourself.

[Lemmy]

I don't know, I think $70 million opening weekend is pretty good when up against an MCU film (and a Spider-Man one at that).

On a Christmas week... For a big-franchise movie with a 200 million dollars production budget?

I humbly disagree.

[Ramza00]

On a Christmas week... For a big-franchise movie with a 200 million dollars production budget?

I humbly disagree.

We have no clue how much money it made (virtual money of course) with its HBO Max numbers.

But yeah if this was not a pandemic and not HBO Max simultaneously release those are not good numbers.

[Dienekes]

I'd call this a soulless cash-grab, but clearly it's not grabbing any cash... So I guess it's just soulless (and really REALLY boring).

See, I actually don’t think this is right.

Boring maybe. That I can’t fault you on, but I think there is actually a lot of soul in it. The beginnings especially seems like Ms Wachowski put a lot of her ruminations on her legacy, her anger at the studio process, and the general feeling of futility when trying to live up to something great you did early in life. Along with a side helping of kinda skin-deep philosophy she has always tried to put in the movie.

It’s just like a lot of the worst of the Wachowski outings, it’s a lot of stuff. Most of it half formed you can tell she really thought was deeper than it actually was.

[Tyndmyr]

On a Christmas week... For a big-franchise movie with a 200 million dollars production budget?

I humbly disagree.

I would agree with the assessment that this is likely a disappointing result. It's on trend, though. Each movie of the series has so far made significantly less than the preceding one. The five day weekend opener of just over $22mil(US box) is absolutely brutal.

It *also* lost out to Sing 2, which got nearly double it's US box. Sing 2 is...far lower profile than the Matrix series. A better movie than this(I see basically everything), but there's no way that they hoped to for the Matrix 4 to open in the #3 slot.

We have no clue how much money it made (virtual money of course) with its HBO Max numbers.

But yeah if this was not a pandemic and not HBO Max simultaneously release those are not good numbers.

It was ranked behind Godzilla v Kong in streaming numbers. Playing second fiddle to a movie that came out this summer...as a brand new major release has got to sting.

This is an absolute bomb by the numbers.

[Vahnavoi]

I'm torn. Reloaded and Revolutions had bigger flaws than this movie, but they also had more interesting commentary on the first Matrix. On one hand, the metacommentary of the first part of Resurrections felt like it overstayed its welcome in the moment, but after the movie was over, and knowing what happened after, it feels like they could've actually done a lot more with that angle. Similarly, the middle of the movie touches on roughly the right points, but it's too much tell too little show and the points aren't really given room to breath. The last part sort of reverses the roles of the leads, but it runs out of time to develop that dynamic and thus doesn't get as much out of it as it could.

Overall, I think this movie would've benefited from being split into two parts, akin to Reloaded/Revolutions, with one part focused on Trinity's viewpoint and time in the Matrix.

On a smaller note, Neal Patrick Harris was great in his role, but whoever the new Smith was just couldn't beat Hugo Weavings. They weren't bad, it's just that Hugo got all the best ham in the other movies.

[Traab]

How about theorycrafting time. Lets say you are a writer given the basic premise of the movie, Neo is a game developer who created a matrix trilogy, there are visions of the past, people trying to set him free people trying to keep him grounded. What would you do with the basic idea?

Me? I would go with a heavy total recall/inception style of story where the goal is to try and figure out what is real. Is he crazy? Is the matrix real? Was it all a delusion? Is the Matrix a real thing, manipulating the world around him to create a scenario where he can be convinced that there is nothing to escape from? Or is he falling apart and drifting away from the real world into some fantasy land where he is cyber jeebus? I want US to question whats actually happening, not just Mr Anderson. Did he escape? Or is he still stuck in another illusion of the matrix? After all, the machines have had a couple centuries of trial and error to perfect their system, so putting in a fail safe of an alternate matrix where they can believe they have been freed and are fighting against the machines, all while still plugged in, wouldnt be an irrational decision to make if enough "rebels" form from each batch of humans to reject the "normal" world they are provided. Or is he really out of the system? I want there to be a real question right up till the end. Where we get some sort of proof one way or the other. "Oh its all real, finally we can trust in this!" Then they walk away and behind them there is a brief flicker or visual glitch and the evil horn music blare happens. The End. (of part 1)

[Ramza00]

On a smaller note, Neal Patrick Harris was great in his role, but whoever the new Smith was just couldn't beat Hugo Weavings. They weren't bad, it's just that Hugo got all the best ham in the other movies.

Who the new Smith is? Well it is Jonathan Groff. He is most famous playing "You'll be back" King George the 3rd in Hamiliton Link 1 and here is Link 2, What Comes Next, the reprise song with a different outfit and a better sound but less funny. Groff is also famous for Kristoff which is the blonde boyfriend in Frozen 1 and 2, playing Patrick Murray in HBO's Looking, Holden Ford in Netflix's Mindhunter, over a dozen Glee episodes, and lots of other works including some video game voices. Jonathan Groff's breakout role was Spring Awakening where he was nominated for a Tony (but did not win) and it was a big deal for he was in his early 20s then.

Sidenote lots of hot out gay actors in Matrix Revolution. Another one I noticed besides Jonathan Groff and the very famous Neil Patrick Harris ...

is Brian J. Smith as Berg. If you do not remember Berg is the younger Io guy who worshiped Neo as a kid and finds the older Neo beard is working for him / Berg. Brian J Smith in other actor jobs previously was the young military guy in Stargate Universe, was the lead in Sense 8 which the Wachowskis did, and has been in half a dozen other things that I am unfamiliar with.

There are probably lots of other actors I know from somewhere else but it did not click on the first viewing since there is a lot to pay attention to in this movie. Hopefully sometime in the next week I will make time to watch the movie again.

[Psyren]

is Brian J. Smith as Berg. If you do not remember Berg is the younger Io guy who worshiped Neo as a kid and finds the beard is working for him. Brian J Smith previously was the young military guy in Stargate Universe, was the lead in Sense 8 which the Wachowskis did, and has been in half a dozen other things that I am unfamiliar with.

There are probably lots of other actors I know from somewhere else but it did not click on the first viewing since there is a lot to pay attention to in this movie. Hopefully sometime in the next week I will make time to watch the movie again.

There are a ton from Sense8, including Freema Agyeman aka Martha Jones from Doctor Who.

[Peelee]

There are a ton from Sense8, including Freema Agyeman aka Martha Jones from Doctor Who.

AKA Junior Crown Prosecutor Alesha Phillips from Law & Order : UK.

[Vahnavoi]

How about theorycrafting time. Lets say you are a writer given the basic premise of the movie, Neo is a game developer who created a matrix trilogy, there are visions of the past, people trying to set him free people trying to keep him grounded. What would you do with the basic idea?

I came up with two distinct takes:

Spoiler: Take One

Show

The start focuses on the game design angle. While testing and modifying the engine for a Matrix game, one game character, Morpheus, appears to become self-aware. He starts arguing to Neo that all of the Matrix games happened for real and that the game he's working on now is the newest iteration of the Matrix.

Neo's own grasp on reality starts to slip as he tries to figure out why Morpheus is acting like this. Did he accidentally create a working AI, is that AI effectively insane, is Neo himself going insane and reading too much into a character believing essentially what he coded them to believe? So on and so forth. He eventually becomes convinced someone hacked his system as is engaging in some elaborate gaslighting, but fails to find the hacker anywhere other than the game he himself is supposedly coding...

At this point, Neo's boss removes him from the project and puts him on a forced leave. Neo goes to therapy, it's all going fine, untill Morpheus AI hacks into his personal computer and down the rabbit hole he goes. Eventually Neo figures that if the Matrix truly does exist as something outside his own creation, and that if Morpheus could hack into his personal computer to contact him, he can do the reverse. So he (re)codes his game avatar as the One and plays the game untill he gets back to the Source to ask some tough questions...

You can replace Neo with Trinity, or have Neo be just a gane designer with someone else playing the game to find out the truth.

Spoiler: Take Two

Show

This one embraces the self-commentary angle. It opens with an interview about the themes behind the original Matrix series, Neo's motives for making a sequel, and how the original series impacted other people. In addition to Neo, there's a simulation theory believer who basically belongs to a religion founded on the cultural heritage of Matrix, and the interviewer brings up a third person, an untreated schizophrenic who shot his family due to believing the first Matrix was literally true.

It's all super awkward, with Neo having a lot of issues with how people misinterpreted the originals and guilt over the idea of his work driving some mentally unbalanced person into murdering his family. The other interviewee - lets call her Bugs - is disappointed by how his idol basically hates his own work and the people who built their lives on it, and offended by the interviewer comparing her honest belief in simulation theory to actions of a genuinely insane person.

Despite this, Neo and Bugs have some chemistry together and meet later at a cafeteria. They bond over talking about Neo's new game. In a more relaxed setting, Bugs manages to explain her beliefs better and Neo regains his inspiration and appreciation of the Matrix series. He starts incorporating some of her ideas into his sequel, calls her to test, lots of fun is had, so on and so forth.

Then, the supposed insane person, who either has escaped or been released after his sentence/treatment was over, comes to meet Neo. He says he has a message from Morpheus. This rattles Neo and sours his good mood. He seeks out therapy to deal with the anxiety this encounter causes him. His therapist prescribes him some medicine to help him get over him.

For a while, all seems fine, but next time Neo meets Bugs, she looks like Trinity. Neo is even more rattled, and goes back to his therapist. Neo says the drugs don't work, they are making things worse. His therapist says he's incorrect - the medicine is working just as intented.

Neo basically flees his therapist. His grasp of reality slipping, he calls Bugs and confides her what's going on. She's calm and supportive and assures him it will all be fine once his medication is changed. He's mollified, but only barely. He tries to sleep on it, hoping the hallucinations go away.

The focus then shifts to Bugs. She goes to talk to Neo's therapist. She's trying to be as reasonable as she can, explaining her friend might be having a psychotic break and needs help with his medication. The therapist again argues the medicine is working just as it's meant to. The whole discussion starts to feel off to Bugs. The therapist is telling her things she has no business knowing, and invoking knowledge they really shouldn't have. It culminates in the therapist offering her the same medicine. The therapist reveals they saw the interview and know about Bugs' beliefs. They call her out for having a crush on Neo and secretly hoping she is Trinity. She reluctantly agrees that yes, it would be nice to have confirmation to her faith, but really the more important thing is that her friend might be having a breakdown. The therapist points out that there are two possible realities present: one where they are a manipulative bastard, drugging and feeding falsehoods to their patient and associates of their patient, and a second one where they are giving Bugs an honest chance at finding the truth behind it all. So which does she really believe in? They then leave the medicine in her care.

Bugs is hesitant over taking the medicine. We see her pondering on whether to take it, but it's never confirmed if they do take it.

Meanwhile, Neo is having a tough time. He's starting to see code everywhere. He climbs on a roof and starts pondering whether he should jump. Before he can, Bugs arrives and stops him. She assures him everything is all right, he of course sees her as Trinity, they have a heart-warming moment. The movie ends with implication that they jump down together, but doesn't confirm if they do.

[Eldan]

Some good ideas there, I like those. The first is probably what I'd go for, but let me suggest a third take anyway:

Spoiler

Show

Thomas Anderson starts work on the new Matrix, while regularly going to therapy. His therapist finds the idea of the Matrix fascinating and they begin to talk about what the idea of it. How Anderson himself would create a virtual world that keeps humans placid and calm, why he thinks the machines couldn't do it the first two times they tried, how Anderson imagines the perfect created world and what that says about him as a god-like designer figure.

The twist of course being that the machines are trying to design a new matrix that will keep a sufficient number of humans hooked to keep them alive. They are now convinced that they do not sufficiently understand human psychology, so they are taking on some human designers on board to help them create Matrix 3.0

Neo wouldn't be the only one, of course. He's important, since he offered himself up to the humans voluntarily, but the machine architects would take input from other humans too, likely including Trinity.

Over the second act of the film, several parties would contact Anderson: radical free humans, who want to shut the matrix down immediately and free everyone, whether they can survive in the real world or not, the, let's call them, free human ecologists, who are trying to slowly change the world into something that can sustain a human population again and only want to release small numbers of humans at a time, as many as they can keep alive, and possibly a spokesperson for the Matrix humans, who wants to stay inside, rather than leave and be a working drone in a post-apocalypse terraforming project.

[Millstone85]

Well, that's a lot of negative reception, enough to kill my hope for a good movie.

Curiosity will still bring me to the theater, though.

And now I saw it.

Small audience, and two or three persons left midway through. Yikes!

And yet... I liked it? Looks like I am in the minority this time around.

[Dr.Samurai]

This movie was a complete waste of time, for creators and viewers. I honestly can't believe this was the story chosen to revisit this franchise.

Spoiler

Show

The idea of machines allying with the humans in the real world is cool. I like that the machines were fractured after the peace was brokered and some of them went to the side of the humans. I don't think that Bugs is correct though in saying that Neo achieved so much more than peace, because Io is still hiding from the sentinels. It doesn't sound like the machines really honored anything, and people are still rebelling dangerously in the Matrix to try to get free and free others. This is very similar to Star Wars, where the reboot picks up almost as if the events of the previous trilogy don't matter. It's nice that the machines help Io grow strawberries, but apart from that Io is not all that different from Zion, so this "change" is not very impactful.

I think the idea should have been expanded to also include the evolution of people like Cypher; humans that shun the real world, want nothing to do with skulking around under grow lamps hiding from sentinels, and prefer to remain in the Matrix. But for rebels turned heel, they can be aided by the machines to unlock potential in the Matrix to challenge the hacker rebels that can jump far and perform crazy acrobatics. The Analyst refers to the sheeple at the end and I think a cohort of bad guys that are humans, but with similar abilities to Morpheus and Trinity, would be great. Why free everyone to a worse life, when you can be god avatars in the Matrix? All you have to do is comply. In this way you have humans and machines on both sides of the conflict in a meaningful way.

Instead, we get these SUPER weak agents that can no longer aim properly and hit anyone. At all. Not even when they are running away from them in a straight line down a corridor. My goodness, what a departure from the first scene in the Matrix when Trinity asks, with some concern, "Are there agents?" and Morpheus says simply "Yes" and Trinity swears, knowing that she is in grave danger. Now... lmao who cares? The Agents can't do anything. They literally shoot at Bugs nearly point-blank in the Modal and don't hit a single thing. Instead, they are replaced by "bots" that are basically just rage zombies. Big deal. What happened to the "upgrades" from Matrix Reloaded? Yes, it was a little lame, but not as lame as what we just got in Resurrections.

And then Merv returns with Rufio and the Lost Boys from Hook? What in the hell?

And why does everyone have Keymaster powers now? How are the humans not winning this war with Keymaster powers and Stormtrooper Agents as their adversaries?

So Neo keeps saying all along he never believed he was "the One", and that is validated in this movie when Trinity... ascends. How does this jive with the trilogy? Is this why nothing really changed, because the Oracle and Morpheus were wrong all along? The concept of love as the key to breaking free is... okay I guess. Trinity's prophecy is intertwined with the One, she is supposed to fall in love the One. Now... that was treated more as a clue or confirmation in the first film, but it could also be read as "the power of Trinity's love facilitates the One". It's just a bit unfortunate because Neo and Trinity were soooo subdued in the trilogy that their "love" hardly registers. There's very little chemistry there. It is actually more believable in Resurrections because the two act more like normal people in the Matrix than they ever did in the Trilogy.

I can at least say that I saw reports that this movie attacks the fans, and while there is certainly a problem currently with franchises attacking the fanbase, I did not see that in the movie. I'm actually not even sure how people interpreted an attack on the fanbase to be honest. Could have gone over my head, but I think the issues here are purely in storytelling and execution. I found myself more interested in whatever hot mess the annoying "creatives" at Warner Bros. were going to cook up in their montage than what we ended up with on the screen.

[Psyren]

And why does everyone have ____ powers now? How are the humans not winning this war with _____ and _____ as their adversaries?

That's exactly the core problem, they are! i.e. no stakes or urgency.

I came up with two distinct takes:

Spoiler: Take One

Show

The start focuses on the game design angle. While testing and modifying the engine for a Matrix game, one game character, Morpheus, appears to become self-aware. He starts arguing to Neo that all of the Matrix games happened for real and that the game he's working on now is the newest iteration of the Matrix.

Neo's own grasp on reality starts to slip as he tries to figure out why Morpheus is acting like this. Did he accidentally create a working AI, is that AI effectively insane, is Neo himself going insane and reading too much into a character believing essentially what he coded them to believe? So on and so forth. He eventually becomes convinced someone hacked his system as is engaging in some elaborate gaslighting, but fails to find the hacker anywhere other than the game he himself is supposedly coding...

At this point, Neo's boss removes him from the project and puts him on a forced leave. Neo goes to therapy, it's all going fine, untill Morpheus AI hacks into his personal computer and down the rabbit hole he goes. Eventually Neo figures that if the Matrix truly does exist as something outside his own creation, and that if Morpheus could hack into his personal computer to contact him, he can do the reverse. So he (re)codes his game avatar as the One and plays the game untill he gets back to the Source to ask some tough questions...

You can replace Neo with Trinity, or have Neo be just a gane designer with someone else playing the game to find out the truth.

Spoiler: Take Two

Show

This one embraces the self-commentary angle. It opens with an interview about the themes behind the original Matrix series, Neo's motives for making a sequel, and how the original series impacted other people. In addition to Neo, there's a simulation theory believer who basically belongs to a religion founded on the cultural heritage of Matrix, and the interviewer brings up a third person, an untreated schizophrenic who shot his family due to believing the first Matrix was literally true.

It's all super awkward, with Neo having a lot of issues with how people misinterpreted the originals and guilt over the idea of his work driving some mentally unbalanced person into murdering his family. The other interviewee - lets call her Bugs - is disappointed by how his idol basically hates his own work and the people who built their lives on it, and offended by the interviewer comparing her honest belief in simulation theory to actions of a genuinely insane person.

Despite this, Neo and Bugs have some chemistry together and meet later at a cafeteria. They bond over talking about Neo's new game. In a more relaxed setting, Bugs manages to explain her beliefs better and Neo regains his inspiration and appreciation of the Matrix series. He starts incorporating some of her ideas into his sequel, calls her to test, lots of fun is had, so on and so forth.

Then, the supposed insane person, who either has escaped or been released after his sentence/treatment was over, comes to meet Neo. He says he has a message from Morpheus. This rattles Neo and sours his good mood. He seeks out therapy to deal with the anxiety this encounter causes him. His therapist prescribes him some medicine to help him get over him.

For a while, all seems fine, but next time Neo meets Bugs, she looks like Trinity. Neo is even more rattled, and goes back to his therapist. Neo says the drugs don't work, they are making things worse. His therapist says he's incorrect - the medicine is working just as intented.

Neo basically flees his therapist. His grasp of reality slipping, he calls Bugs and confides her what's going on. She's calm and supportive and assures him it will all be fine once his medication is changed. He's mollified, but only barely. He tries to sleep on it, hoping the hallucinations go away.

The focus then shifts to Bugs. She goes to talk to Neo's therapist. She's trying to be as reasonable as she can, explaining her friend might be having a psychotic break and needs help with his medication. The therapist again argues the medicine is working just as it's meant to. The whole discussion starts to feel off to Bugs. The therapist is telling her things she has no business knowing, and invoking knowledge they really shouldn't have. It culminates in the therapist offering her the same medicine. The therapist reveals they saw the interview and know about Bugs' beliefs. They call her out for having a crush on Neo and secretly hoping she is Trinity. She reluctantly agrees that yes, it would be nice to have confirmation to her faith, but really the more important thing is that her friend might be having a breakdown. The therapist points out that there are two possible realities present: one where they are a manipulative bastard, drugging and feeding falsehoods to their patient and associates of their patient, and a second one where they are giving Bugs an honest chance at finding the truth behind it all. So which does she really believe in? They then leave the medicine in her care.

Bugs is hesitant over taking the medicine. We see her pondering on whether to take it, but it's never confirmed if they do take it.

Meanwhile, Neo is having a tough time. He's starting to see code everywhere. He climbs on a roof and starts pondering whether he should jump. Before he can, Bugs arrives and stops him. She assures him everything is all right, he of course sees her as Trinity, they have a heart-warming moment. The movie ends with implication that they jump down together, but doesn't confirm if they do.

Some good ideas there, I like those. The first is probably what I'd go for, but let me suggest a third take anyway:

Spoiler

Show

Thomas Anderson starts work on the new Matrix, while regularly going to therapy. His therapist finds the idea of the Matrix fascinating and they begin to talk about what the idea of it. How Anderson himself would create a virtual world that keeps humans placid and calm, why he thinks the machines couldn't do it the first two times they tried, how Anderson imagines the perfect created world and what that says about him as a god-like designer figure.

The twist of course being that the machines are trying to design a new matrix that will keep a sufficient number of humans hooked to keep them alive. They are now convinced that they do not sufficiently understand human psychology, so they are taking on some human designers on board to help them create Matrix 3.0

Neo wouldn't be the only one, of course. He's important, since he offered himself up to the humans voluntarily, but the machine architects would take input from other humans too, likely including Trinity.

Over the second act of the film, several parties would contact Anderson: radical free humans, who want to shut the matrix down immediately and free everyone, whether they can survive in the real world or not, the, let's call them, free human ecologists, who are trying to slowly change the world into something that can sustain a human population again and only want to release small numbers of humans at a time, as many as they can keep alive, and possibly a spokesperson for the Matrix humans, who wants to stay inside, rather than leave and be a working drone in a post-apocalypse terraforming project.

Before you decide on any kind of take you need to answer the basic question the movie failed to answer:

Spoiler

Show

Namely, why do we need Neo back specifically (beyond the meta-reasoning of "hey it's the guy you know!" nostalgia to get IRL butts in theater seats), and why do we need him right now?

Io is holding steady and may even be thriving, and has separatist machines on its side. It's now the Matrix machine faction who are in decline. There is no clear time limit or ticking clock to getting either Neo or Trinity out, in fact the machines have apparently made him functionally immortal in the real world too. Agents are nowhere near as threatening as they once were, and thus neither is the Matrix as a whole. The EMP is no longer humanity's only viable weapon. Hell, the machines on their side appear to be even more advanced than the Matrix ones (one has a cloaking device??)

There are absolutely no stakes to the movie's central conflict. That needs to be worked out first before we start coming up with the plotty things like the nature of Neo's prison and how he eventually subverts it.

[Eldan]

Hmmmm. You're right. Though movies can work without ticking clocks or high stakes and be more slow and meditative.

Spoiler

Show

I suppose the central conflict would have to be about the machines declining? It would have to be structured as almost a humanitarian mission. The machines are on the way down, "human power" is not working right, more and more humans are escaping and the peace agreement between men and machines means they have to let them go. If central machine core goes down, so do the separatist machines on the human side, and billions of humans will die as their pods go cold.

Slow burn of a conflict, though. More of a "what do we do" than a "we have to do this right now". Still, can work. Structured more like an alien first contact movie, where the machines and the humans need to communicate and come to a new understanding.

[Traab]

This movie was a complete waste of time, for creators and viewers. I honestly can't believe this was the story chosen to revisit this franchise.

Spoiler

Show

The idea of machines allying with the humans in the real world is cool. I like that the machines were fractured after the peace was brokered and some of them went to the side of the humans. I don't think that Bugs is correct though in saying that Neo achieved so much more than peace, because Io is still hiding from the sentinels. It doesn't sound like the machines really honored anything, and people are still rebelling dangerously in the Matrix to try to get free and free others. This is very similar to Star Wars, where the reboot picks up almost as if the events of the previous trilogy don't matter. It's nice that the machines help Io grow strawberries, but apart from that Io is not all that different from Zion, so this "change" is not very impactful.

I think the idea should have been expanded to also include the evolution of people like Cypher; humans that shun the real world, want nothing to do with skulking around under grow lamps hiding from sentinels, and prefer to remain in the Matrix. But for rebels turned heel, they can be aided by the machines to unlock potential in the Matrix to challenge the hacker rebels that can jump far and perform crazy acrobatics. The Analyst refers to the sheeple at the end and I think a cohort of bad guys that are humans, but with similar abilities to Morpheus and Trinity, would be great. Why free everyone to a worse life, when you can be god avatars in the Matrix? All you have to do is comply. In this way you have humans and machines on both sides of the conflict in a meaningful way.

Instead, we get these SUPER weak agents that can no longer aim properly and hit anyone. At all. Not even when they are running away from them in a straight line down a corridor. My goodness, what a departure from the first scene in the Matrix when Trinity asks, with some concern, "Are there agents?" and Morpheus says simply "Yes" and Trinity swears, knowing that she is in grave danger. Now... lmao who cares? The Agents can't do anything. They literally shoot at Bugs nearly point-blank in the Modal and don't hit a single thing. Instead, they are replaced by "bots" that are basically just rage zombies. Big deal. What happened to the "upgrades" from Matrix Reloaded? Yes, it was a little lame, but not as lame as what we just got in Resurrections.

And then Merv returns with Rufio and the Lost Boys from Hook? What in the hell?

And why does everyone have Keymaster powers now? How are the humans not winning this war with Keymaster powers and Stormtrooper Agents as their adversaries?

So Neo keeps saying all along he never believed he was "the One", and that is validated in this movie when Trinity... ascends. How does this jive with the trilogy? Is this why nothing really changed, because the Oracle and Morpheus were wrong all along? The concept of love as the key to breaking free is... okay I guess. Trinity's prophecy is intertwined with the One, she is supposed to fall in love the One. Now... that was treated more as a clue or confirmation in the first film, but it could also be read as "the power of Trinity's love facilitates the One". It's just a bit unfortunate because Neo and Trinity were soooo subdued in the trilogy that their "love" hardly registers. There's very little chemistry there. It is actually more believable in Resurrections because the two act more like normal people in the Matrix than they ever did in the Trilogy.

I can at least say that I saw reports that this movie attacks the fans, and while there is certainly a problem currently with franchises attacking the fanbase, I did not see that in the movie. I'm actually not even sure how people interpreted an attack on the fanbase to be honest. Could have gone over my head, but I think the issues here are purely in storytelling and execution. I found myself more interested in whatever hot mess the annoying "creatives" at Warner Bros. were going to cook up in their montage than what we ended up with on the screen.

I actually like the idea of "traitor" humans in the matrix who know its a simulation, but basically traded their status as matrix attack dogs in exchange for an awesome fake life. They get to edit their own little corner of paradise, have all sorts of fancy powers, and in return they have to be on call to deal with outsiders trying to break people free from the matrix. Seriously, that would be a really badass story to work with. The sides have all fractured into factions, some humans want to live the high life in the matrix, some want to free everyone fromt he matrix, others want to free small batches they can sustain, some think they shouldnt break out anybody as that could spark a new war with the machines. On the other side the machines arent much better. Some support working with humans, others want to destroy all the humans, still others think they should change the matrix to make human life better because while they need power they dont want the humans to suffer, etc. And here is Neo and Trinity, two huge figures at the center of everything. Imagine getting nelson mandela on your side of a conflict, how much legitimacy and influence that would add. And here is Neo, unable to remember what he has been through, being wooed (or attacked) by all sides, trying to come to a conclusion as to the right group to back. Fight scenes with humans who have edited themselves a wide assortment of powers so its not just blurry fast martial arts, real world robo battles as each side tries to innovate their way to the top of an arms race, and lots of debate on the nature of freedom, truth, and choice. And what they cost as well as their worth.

[Dr.Samurai]

I still think...

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Actual humans can escalate the conflict. If the machines are in decline, but there are a faction of humans that want the Matrix to remain because they prefer that reality to the real world, then you can have an unholy alliance between machine and human, where super-humans in the Matrix are fighting against the rebels and infiltrating Io and wreaking havoc with stolen knowledge of the rebel operation, etc.

The reason you need Neo is to fight back against the humans in the Matrix that have been assisted by the machines to hack reality to a greater degree than the rebels. And then Neo would fight back, but then it is revealed that Trinity is needed for full potential.

EDIT: I didn't see Traab's post, but yeah, traitor humans!

[Psyren]

Though movies can work without ticking clocks or high stakes and be more slow and meditative.

They can but you'd need a whole new premise for that. "Swashbuckling action, get Neo out" isn't compatible with slow and meditative.

Dr. Samurai's is an okay start but needs a lot of work.

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I suppose the central conflict would have to be about the machines declining? It would have to be structured as almost a humanitarian mission. The machines are on the way down, "human power" is not working right, more and more humans are escaping and the peace agreement between men and machines means they have to let them go. If central machine core goes down, so do the separatist machines on the human side, and billions of humans will die as their pods go cold.

Slow burn of a conflict, though. More of a "what do we do" than a "we have to do this right now". Still, can work. Structured more like an alien first contact movie, where the machines and the humans need to communicate and come to a new understanding.

The big issue there is that putting the focus on the energy crisis just continues to highlight how dumb it is. "Drain humans of energy, feed the drained humans to the rest" is not sustainable, no matter how much the Matrix keeps pretending otherwise.

[Tyndmyr]

How about theorycrafting time. Lets say you are a writer given the basic premise of the movie, Neo is a game developer who created a matrix trilogy, there are visions of the past, people trying to set him free people trying to keep him grounded. What would you do with the basic idea?

Me? I would go with a heavy total recall/inception style of story where the goal is to try and figure out what is real. Is he crazy? Is the matrix real? Was it all a delusion? Is the Matrix a real thing, manipulating the world around him to create a scenario where he can be convinced that there is nothing to escape from? Or is he falling apart and drifting away from the real world into some fantasy land where he is cyber jeebus? I want US to question whats actually happening, not just Mr Anderson. Did he escape? Or is he still stuck in another illusion of the matrix? After all, the machines have had a couple centuries of trial and error to perfect their system, so putting in a fail safe of an alternate matrix where they can believe they have been freed and are fighting against the machines, all while still plugged in, wouldnt be an irrational decision to make if enough "rebels" form from each batch of humans to reject the "normal" world they are provided. Or is he really out of the system? I want there to be a real question right up till the end. Where we get some sort of proof one way or the other. "Oh its all real, finally we can trust in this!" Then they walk away and behind them there is a brief flicker or visual glitch and the evil horn music blare happens. The End. (of part 1)

That was actually kind of what I was expecting. The trailer leaned on this sort of uncertainty quite heavily, but we honestly didn't get much more than the trailer teased us.

Waiting for the hero to catch up is only interesting for so long...and worse, we have to go through that again with Trinity. The audience is already on board with the whole Matrix conceit, we don't need to be sold on it even if the character does...and so waiting on the characters is...a little boring.

The machines working with the humans...okay, that was an interesting little twist. I would have liked to see that explored a bit more, I think. Machines being at war with one another, alright. How are they divided, and what's going on with that? That's a cool new element we could play with.

We also might want to look more at the machines motivation. The whole idea that they somehow get an awful lot of energy somehow by Neo and Trinity being close, but not together is...okay, mostly just odd. The battery motif in the original isn't perfect, but trying to make true love the core component just sits badly in all the wrong ways. It doesn't fit. Likewise, if the mass of people somehow still supply energy, having them all suicide bomb, uh...makes zero sense.

Plot Ideas:

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Perhaps they could have tied back into the third film. That whole "the one is the remainder of an unbalanced equation" bit. That's vague. You can work with that. Perhaps they have accepted that revolutions are inevitable, but they are setting up tricks to sandbox and isolate the revolution to somewhere more easily managed.

The Architect is attempting to use Neo's knowledge as safely as possible, but the machine war is complicating things for him, and he's getting desperate. Processing power is limited, and more and more glitches are happening as power is diverted to the war from the Matrix, giving us some reason why this is happening now, as well as why he is growing more confrontational with Neo.

So...you have a faster initial acceptance, particularly by Trinity, and a phase where they are trying to learn more under the noses of the machines. Get some tension in there, and get to that uncertainty as to what is real. We utterly skip most of the meta commentary in favor of more examination of the new machine dynamic.

Bugs is cool. Let's give her some actual work to do in the plot after the opening. She's on the outside trying to get to them, but the sandboxing is limiting her ability to get to within broadcast range. She has to find openings in the machine vs machine war, and exploit limited openings in security created by this to get in, and try to pass information to/from Neo/Trinity. This gives some actual purpose to her, and also gives us some "real world" tension and the ability to see some other part of it. New horrors of the machines can be revealed, and we can have some great CGI robot combat, even though it's not the focus.

Let us also say that the situation is known about not because of "uh, random stuff, we looked a lot, and quasi-religious whatever" but because Bugs grew up in Neo's little sandbox, and after being freed, realized that the guy everyone remembered as a big hero lived in the apartment a few doors down(or they can work at the same office). An actual personal connection, not the worship motif.

Smith has also been isolated because, well, he's connected to Neo, and left unbalanced by him, will corrupt the larger machine's system again. Smith is deeply, deeply unhappy about this isolation. His memory has, like Neo's, been wiped, and he is seeking therapy, but like Neo, feels that something is terribly, terribly wrong. His rage and disgust keep leaking through, and he and Neo bump into one another in the part where Neo is questioning reality, finding a certain degree of kinship in someone else feeling the same, and he tries to compare notes. This goes...poorly. Smith remembers, and begins attempting to find a way out. Now we've got some actual tension to the ultimate goal, as Neo has to beat Smith....but the Analyst isn't going to let either out. Smith goes to the Merovingian to attempt to find a backdoor, giving them some time for the one person to escape.

This also serves as a way to lure one back in to have a heist to save the other. That said...I think it might honestly be more interesting to have Neo be the one staying behind. Trinity, Bugs, etc get to plan the heist to save the other. Neo/Trinity doesn't get BS love powers. Neither of them flies. Something like half the team dies as this part goes entirely wrong.

Trinity extracts Neo, but they've taken wounds, and attempting to replicate his healing trick from the earlier movie....it doesn't work. Ysee, the One is created in every cycle, but this is a new cycle. Bugs is the person following the rabbit, literally having it tattooed on her, and the seeker for truth. It's her. Neo and Trinity have a touching moment as Smith gets to angrily shred them with gunfire, but that's when Bugs gets to manifest her full power at last. Her journey isn't the independent seeking of truth that Neo's was, but an attempt to protect and free others. And so her trigger moment is that as well.

She has powers that are...not a carbon clone of Neo's previous ones, but similar. Yknow, set up an option for a sequel that doesn't have the flying problem. Give her a brief time rewind. It lets you save Trinity and Neo, it gives you the deja vu callback, and it's awesome without being entirely broken. She needs to get them out before the real world war entirely removes their chance of escape.

Trinity and Neo get to have an actual retirement and sendoff, and you've got a related, but new story to tell in the world.

Post credit scene can have the invading machine army salvaging everything for parts, and connecting up the still usable pods and hardware captured. Final shot is Smith waking up in the new Matrix, a smile upon his face.

[Dr.Samurai]

I’m no electrical engineer but I suspect the power usage for running something like the Matrix is vastly more than whatever they drain from the humans they’ve imprisoned…

[Traab]

I’m no electrical engineer but I suspect the power usage for running something like the Matrix is vastly more than whatever they drain from the humans they’ve imprisoned…

Yes thats been well established since the first movie was released. Human batteries is a terrible idea.

[Nicos]

I’m no electrical engineer but I suspect the power usage for running something like the Matrix is vastly more than whatever they drain from the humans they’ve imprisoned…

I hate when movies don't follow the laws of thermodynamics.

[Millstone85]

Likewise, if the mass of people somehow still supply energy, having them all suicide bomb, uh...makes zero sense.

The impression I got is that bots are entirely part of the Matrix itself. It has been simulating bird flocks without the machines keeping birds in pods, and now it is able to simulate human crowds independently from plugged humans. In game terms, the Matrix now has NPCs in addition to player avatars.

And this may have been Lana Wachowski's attempt at portraying the concept of "philosophical zombie", or p-zombie for short, a non-sapient body that would be physically and behaviourally indistinguishable from a conscious individual.

Or maybe I am wrong and a bot is more like a simplified agent, able to take over multiple humans at once without risking another Smith situation. In that case, yes, huge waste.

I’m no electrical engineer but I suspect the power usage for running something like the Matrix is vastly more than whatever they drain from the humans they’ve imprisoned…

Nevermind the Matrix. Just keeping humans alive should require more energy than could possibly be harvested from them.

It would be like trying to keep a hamster alive with the energy it produces by running inside a wheel. Perpetual motion machines don't work, and this one would be especially silly.

[Traab]

The impression I got is that bots are entirely part of the Matrix itself. It has been simulating bird flocks without the machines keeping birds in pods, and now it is able to simulate human crowds independently from plugged humans. In game terms, the Matrix now has NPCs in addition to player avatars.

And this may have been Lana Wachowski's attempt at portraying the concept of "philosophical zombie", or p-zombie for short, a non-sapient body that would be physically and behaviourally indistinguishable from a conscious individual.

Or maybe I am wrong and a bot is more like a simplified agent, able to take over multiple humans at once without risking another Smith situation. In that case, yes, huge waste.

Nevermind the Matrix. Just keeping humans alive should require more energy than could possibly be harvested from them.

It would be like trying to keep a hamster alive with the energy it produces by running inside a wheel. Perpetual motion machines don't work, and this one would be especially silly.

None of it makes sense. lets put aside human batteries being a dumb idea. Why do they need to be put into the matrix? Why not just left in a medically induced coma? You cant rebel against the machine if you are in a coma. There, I just removed one of the drains on any potential power produced. The humans arent suffering because they are in a coma and cant feel anything bad. I am pretty sure iirc the original idea was processor power from human brains which actually would explain linking billions of people into a hive mind program or whatever. But batteries? There is no reason for that.

[Millstone85]

I am pretty sure iirc the original idea was processor power from human brains which actually would explain linking billions of people into a hive mind program or whatever.

Indeed, and my n°1 hope for this sequel was that idea getting retconned back in. But instead, Neo and Trinity were said to be super-batteries.

Also, do you know what I would have revealed as the actual source of energy used by the machines? None other than what we were told was used to depower them: the nanite cloud, actually a world-wide solar panel.

[Dragonus45]

Why do people still care about the people as energy thing? It's a cinema sins level meaningless complaint.

[Ramza00]

Why do people still care about the people as energy thing? It's a cinema sins level meaningless complaint.

Thermodynamics is the death of metaphor? or something?

( I agree )

[t209]

Why do people still care about the people as energy thing? It's a cinema sins level meaningless complaint.

Plus I think original Human as CPU idea is used by 40k before.
Or at least psychic version of it.
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Astronomican