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Thread: Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
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2022-04-15, 12:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2021
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Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
Hello everybody, playdies and gentlegrounders, and all that technicolor rainbow in-between!
I am officially restarting the Monster Mash competition!
This competition, based on the LA-assignment thread to allow optimizers to cook a much wider variety of ingredients, had quite a bit of success and there were many people who wanted another round. However, GreatWyrmGold, the instigator of the competition, disappeared from the forum a few months ago. I couldn't reach him by PM, and he seems to be permanently or semi-permanently off the forum (he's fine, I've seen him on other websites).
This is why I'm taking over for a new round of MONSTER MASH!! Hope you'll enjoy, and make impressive characters!Last edited by Beni-Kujaku; 2022-04-24 at 12:00 PM.
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
Nice find! Have a cookie!
Searchable spreadsheet of 3.5 monsters by abilities, now with all online monsters
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2022-04-15, 12:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2021
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
Monster Mash #2
This competition is for monstrous adventurers, in part to experiment with the possibilities they offer and in part to make use of the revised level adjustments which Inevitability and Debatra have spent five years assigning.
Adventurers designed for this contest must be of a monstrous race. For the purpose of this contest, “monstrous race” excludes all races designed for PC use, unless their level adjustment has been increased by one or more templates.
“Monstrous race” is a somewhat vague category, by necessity. No simple set of rules can exclude every single PC race without also excluding some genuine monsters. Entries which flout this rule with borderline-monstrous races risk a penalty to their Monstrosity score.
For the purpose of this competition, all races use the modified level adjustments listed in the LA Assignment Archive. Races with a -0 level adjustment are treated as if they had a +0 level adjustment. Monsters not rated at the time an entry is submitted may not be used.
Some races' level adjustments include asterisks. These monsters have traits which render them unsuitable for PC use, such as a wight’s spawn creation, a dryad’s tree dependency, or a genie’s wishes; check the linked posts in the archive. For the purpose of this contest, those races do not possess those traits. In cases where it's unclear which traits are removed, please contact the chair for clarification.
Round Theme: Scary Monsters!
One of the first issues when playing a monster is how the NPCs will look at you. You can choose to overcome that instinctive fear to make friends, or you can embrace your nature and spread fear around you. Guess what we're doing today!
(I really liked the idea that was suggested last round to have odd-numbered rounds be pretty vague and open-ended and even-numbered rounds to be more focused and specific. However, it's been a while since the first round, and I feel letting people have more choice, especially with the MMVI currently in review, would lead to more varied entries. We'll have a really focused round for round 4, if we reach this number.)
- The monster race (or template) must have a racial ability to spread fear, be it with SLAs, (Ex) or (Su) abilities.
- Only having Intimidate on your skill list isn't enough to qualify, but Frightful Presence is (you'll be noted on how well you utilize that ability in your build).
- "Spreading fear" here describes the ability to render one or several enemies shaken, terrified or panicked with your abilities.
Contestants
You will need to present a full build for your entry, from its first level to level 20. Also required is a rundown of how your build works at lower levels, to demonstrate that it is a functional character that could be played in a real game.
Traditionally participants in similar competitions give "snapshots" of tactics and abilities at levels 5, 10, 15, and 20. Depending on the monstrous race chosen, your character may be unavailable at lower levels; in that case, instead give snapshots at various levels where it is playable. These snapshots should be roughly evenly distributed among what levels it is available at.
Spoiler: Sources and General Rules
32 point-buy is the presumed creation method.
If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.
If the monster you're cooking with has no intelligence, or an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, consider the intelligence as 3 (-8 racial modifier). It still retains any immunity to mind-affecting abilities it may have.
Competitors will be free to use any official 1st party (WotC) 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon Compendium is allowed, but Dragon magazine is disallowed. Unearthed Arcana is allowed. Unupdated 3.0 materials, as well as web exclusives by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion.
Official Errata and 3.5 updates to 3.0 content are considered valid regardless of whether their sources would otherwise be legal. This includes the 3.5 update of Oriental Adventures given in Dragon Magazine, and the 3.5 updates of Dragonlance Campaign Setting content given in later third party Dragonlance books.
Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt or Generic Classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Item Familiars and Taint are also banned from the competition.
Specific bans:
Any material that grants you leadership without you specifically taking it should be ignored and may not be traded away for another feat or ACF. Any variant of Leadership, such as Undead Leadership and Dragon Cohort are likewise banned. Wild Cohort and Obtain Familiar are allowed. If you are not sure if a specific feat violates the 'no leadership' rule, err on the side of caution, or ask me.
However, Leadership may be taken to qualify for another feat or class (such as the Great Captain feat or Legendary Leader prestige class), though a character still doesn't get its usual benefit in those cases. This is to allow characters to access unproblematic material that'd otherwise be made unavailable because of the Leadership ban.
Because this contest involves creating a build up to level 20, no race with a base ECL higher than 20 is allowed.
The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. The same holds for Oriental Adventures (1st party) and the subsequent Rokugan books (3rd party).
The Illithid Savant and Beholder Mage prestige classes are specifically banned due to their extreme potential for abuse.
Judging
Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated on a scale from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, and Monstrosity.
Scores of zero may be applied in cases of exceptional misconduct (plagiarism earns a 0 in Originality, failure to meet prerequisites earns a 0 in Elegance, non-monstrous races earn a 0 in Monstrosity, etc); otherwise, all entries should receive at least one full point in each category.
- Originality: Is it unexpected or novel?
- Power: Can it do what the concept asks of it? Is this a powerfully-built character?
- Elegance: Is it mechanically straighforward or “pretty”?
- Monstrosity: Is the monstrous character’s race used?
Spoiler: Precisions on Elegance and MonstrosityElegance and Monstrosity demand further elaboration.
Elegance measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. Use of flaws is considered in poor taste, and judges are asked to take a dim view of this option, taking it into account while grading. Other things that will cause penalties here are excessive multi-classing, and classes that don't fit the concept.
A legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using conflicting setting material may result in a penalty to Elegance at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not. In that same vein, drawing solely from the Core 3 (and the d20 SRD) should not be punished for lacking Originality.
Monstrosity measures how necessary the entry’s monster race was to the submission. We want to build monstrous adventurers here, not standard Iron Chef builds with a few racial hit dice at the start. Builds which could not function without the monstrous features of their race earn high Monstrosity scores, while builds which could work on any PC race with no changes will take Monstrosity penalties. Builds using non-monstrous races will also take penalties to Monstrosity. For rounds with specific restrictions on the monster race, this category will also include making good use of the mandatory component.
Presentation
Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.
SpoilerNAME OF ENTRY
Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features 1st New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 2nd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 3rd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 4th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 5th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 6th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 7th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 8th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 9th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 10th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 11th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 12th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 13th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 14th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 15th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 16th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 17th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 18th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 19th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 20th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
Code immediately below (spoiler).Spoiler[table="class: head alt1 alt2"]
[tr]
[th][B]Level[/B][/th]
[th][B]Class[/B][/th]
[th][B]Base Attack Bonus[/B][/th]
[th][B]Fort Save[/B][/th]
[th][B]Ref Save[/B][/th]
[th][B]Will Save[/B][/th]
[th][B]Skills[/B][/th]
[th][B]Feats[/B][/th]
[th][B]Class Features[/B][/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]1st[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2nd[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]3rd[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]5th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]7th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]9th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]11th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]12th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]13th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]14th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]15th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]16th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]17th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]18th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]19th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]20th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)
SpoilerSpells per Day/Spells Known
Code immediately below (spoiler)Level 0lvl 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 1st - - - - - - - - - - 2nd - - - - - - - - - - 3rd - - - - - - - - - - 4th - - - - - - - - - - 5th - - - - - - - - - - 6th - - - - - - - - - - 7th - - - - - - - - - - 8th - - - - - - - - - - 9th - - - - - - - - - - 10th - - - - - - - - - - 11th - - - - - - - - - - 12th - - - - - - - - - - 13th - - - - - - - - - - 14th - - - - - - - - - - 15th - - - - - - - - - - 16th - - - - - - - - - - 17th - - - - - - - - - - 18th - - - - - - - - - - 19th - - - - - - - - - - 20th - - - - - - - - - - Spoiler[B]Spells per Day/Spells Known[/B]
[table="class:head alt1 alt2"]
[tr]
[th][B]Level[/B][/th]
[th][B]0lvl[/B][/th]
[th][B]1st[/B][/th]
[th][B]2nd[/B][/th]
[th][B]3rd[/B][/th]
[th][B]4th[/B][/th]
[th][B]5th[/B][/th]
[th][B]6th[/B][/th]
[th][B]7th[/B][/th]
[th][B]8th[/B][/th]
[th][B]9th[/B][/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]1st[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2nd[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]3rd[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]5th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]7th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]9th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]11th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]12th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]13th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]14th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]15th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]16th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]17th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]18th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]19th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]20th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
Alternatively, you may use this spreadsheet created by mattie_p.
For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list or table.
Speculation
Please don’t post or speculate on possible builds until the reveal, in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.
Once builds are revealed, please do not comment on errors or rules issues on entries unless you are a judge. If you have such a comment, wait until the final reveal to post it.
Deadlines
Contestants will have until 23:59 GMT Friday 13th of May to create their builds and PM them to the chair. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until 23:59 GMT Friday 27th of May to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted. Deadlines are subject to extension as/if required.
Submission
To standardize Entries, please use this format when sending it in:
PM: Beni-Kujaku
Subject: Monster Mash #, Name of your Entry
For Revisions and disputes, do the same thing. It makes it easier for me finding the entries in my mailbox.
More questions? Either ask in the thread or PM me with Monster Mash Questions in the header. Please use PMs for any questions relating to a specific build to avoid violating rules against speculation.
Houserules/Clarifications
D&D 3.5 is far from a perfect system, and inflated level adjustments are far from the only example of this. Many rules are ambiguous, absent, or just badly-written. I make no claim to fixing the system, but feel some “house rules” are in order:
Spoiler
- Bonus feats that are granted even if you do not meet the prerequisites do not require you to meet the prerequisites in order to use.
- All creatures are proficient with any natural weapons they may have or acquire.
- Monsters with racial hit dice may gain an additional hit die instead of taking a character level. This functions as advancing a monster this way would under other circumstances. You cannot advance any monster beyond the maximum number of racial hit dice noted in its Advancement entry.
- The DC of a monster's supernatural ability is 10+1/2 number of Hit Dice+mod. This includes class levels.
- Able Learner's benefit applies to the level you take it.
- Weapons from soulmelds are considered to be magic weapons.
- Unarmed Swordsage grants Improved Unarmed Strike at level 1.
- Spelltouched feats are legal and can be taken just like any other feat when you meet the prerequisites and have the feat slot available.
- Possessing innate spellcasting from your race is treated as a spellcasting class for the purposes of prestige classes which provide new spells per day, an increase in caster level, and spells known (if applicable) as if you had gained a level in a spellcasting class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level.
And now, time to get mashing!Last edited by Beni-Kujaku; 2022-04-20 at 12:35 PM.
-
2022-04-15, 12:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2021
- Location
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Re: Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
Q&A for this round:
-Do you count class levels as Hit Dice when calculating the DC of a supernatural ability?
Yes, you do. All Hit Dice are counted, even virtual ones like those from Inspire Greatness.Last edited by Beni-Kujaku; 2022-04-20 at 12:39 PM.
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2022-04-15, 05:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
Maybe I'll judge.
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
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2022-04-16, 05:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
I've really liked the first MM, and I'm glad to see it back. I can't think of anything interesting/innivative to do with the round theme tho :(
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2022-04-17, 02:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
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2022-04-19, 04:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
Nice to see this comp re-launched.
I might (a little doubtful, but we'll see) attempt an entry, time permitting.My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
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2022-04-20, 12:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
I got a question about how to calculate the DC of Supernatural abilities. WotC is not quite consistent between books. Some (like the Monster Manual) mention 10+1/2 RHD+mod, while others (like the Rules Compendium) use 10+1/2 HD+mod. For this competition, assume 10+1/2 HD+mod, counting class levels, for all (Su) abilities that don't have other specified way of calculating their DC.
Last edited by Beni-Kujaku; 2022-04-20 at 12:33 PM.
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
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2022-04-21, 11:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
I have a general question about monster mash, if the competition gains traction.
It's going to be monster, I honestly hope I see stuff with LA and RHD, I will feel somewhat sad if the majority of entries are 1-2 HD with LA 0, because then they will be kindaish more "standard build" than "monster build"
would it make sense for monster mash to codify some rules/guidelines/houserules to structure a way to "savage progression" those monster that don't have a savage progression? to "make up" a way to present how creatures with starting ECL of 6+ would play during the first 5 levels?
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2022-04-21, 11:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
I do love the fear mechanics. I want to get something in for this, but my life is a bit busy right now. We'll see if inspiration strikes.
Originally Posted by Darths & DroidsOptimization Trophies
Looking for a finished webcomic to read, or want to recommend one to others? Check out my Completed Webcomics You'd Recommend II thread!
Or perhaps you want something Halloweeny for the season? Halloween Webcomics II
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2022-04-23, 01:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
Do effects whose wording says "character level" count the LA in calculating it, thus usign the ECL, or should we count only "total hit dice" ?
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2022-04-23, 02:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
The first Monster Mash saw a Minotaur with 6 RHD, a Lillend at ECL 9 and a templated Orglash at ECL 10. I'm not worried about only seeing low-ECL monsters ^^
Creating a decent savage progression is incredibly hard, and doing so for all reviewed monsters would take much more than the 5 years it already took to assign their LA. I'm not going down that rabbit hole. If you have a monster with ECL higher than 5, just put your strategies at its starting ECL instead of 5. And if it's higher than 10, don't put your tactics at ECL 5. As long as the judge understands what you're trying to do with your build, it's fine!
It only counts total hit dice.Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
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2022-04-27, 06:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
Would it be fine to lop off the top LA of existing savage progressions, moving their bonuses to the next HD? It seems to be the worst-case for porting the adjustment in question, taking the most early penalties and getting the latest benefits of simply shifting the table. For instance, Libre Mortis' Ghoul 4 would have the first three be as-is, with the features of the original's 4th, 5th, and 6th levels as 4th, then get the 7th and 8th as 5th, to what should be the exact same end result as being a Ghast to start with.
Not particularly relevant here due to the requirements, but again, it seems to be the "worst case" reuse of the table.
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2022-04-28, 03:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
I mean, in the case of this competition, you can present your leveling table however you want, and using this for monsters with a savage progression isn't the worst thing, especially since it allows for level tactics below the standard ECL for that monster.
In actual play, it may be better to space out the LA. Most abilities from savage progressions are already concentrated in LA'd levels and later levels, doing as you're saying would create big power spikes at higher levels while having a weaker PC (since it would use the equivalent of the non-reassigned LA) for the early levels, which is the point where you want more HP and more abilities to survive.
My previous statement mostly referred to monsters that don't already have a savage progression, saying that it would be hard to evenly spread all of its abilities across the levels and LA.Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
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2022-05-08, 01:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
Hello everyone, the deadline is slowly approaching‚ is anybody still cooking? Right now I only have two entries‚ which is more than one‚ but I would much much rather have at least three. Don't be shy! Come and build something! If anybody wants an extension‚ I'd be willing and happy to give one.
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
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2022-05-13, 04:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
Well, assuming nobody is still cooking, since I got no new sign of life, I'll do the reveal now. Please do not post until after I'm done.
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
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2022-05-13, 04:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
All his enemies run away. To be fair, if I saw a dancing wendigo late at night, I think I’d do the same.
Originally Posted by Shakeira, ghastly dancedogResurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
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2022-05-13, 04:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
Sequel, or more accurately prequel, of the previous post.
Originally Posted by Shakeira, ghastly dancedogResurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
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2022-05-13, 04:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
-You’re a witch, Har-chon.
-I’m a what ?
Originally Posted by Dreadful LightLast edited by Beni-Kujaku; 2022-05-13 at 04:11 PM.
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
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2022-05-13, 04:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
And here we are. Only two entries, both by the same person. Loky1109, are you still up to judge?
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
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2022-05-13, 09:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
Yeah, using Fear was probably not the best idea since there's just not many monsters that have it in the first place, and not very many that have any interesting "hook" to it. Hell, there's not a single SRD creature that directly causes Frightened, and only two sources of Shaken, being Frightful Presence and one option of the Cloaker.
Sure, I had an idea for an entry, but finding something to fit 13 levels with disguise and fear racial abilities and a decent suite of Natural Attacks is a bit of an ask. And that's before getting into the absolute mess of the feats to support Intimidate, Charging, and Abominable Form at the same time! I wonder if you can guess what those 13 class levels would be from this.Last edited by Morphic tide; 2022-05-13 at 09:55 PM.
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2022-05-14, 01:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2022-05-14, 02:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
Now that we're past reveal, I got a question about this contest houserule
"Possessing innate spellcasting from your race is treated as a spellcasting class for the purposes of prestige classes which provide new spells per day, an increase in caster level, and spells known (if applicable) as if you had gained a level in a spellcasting class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level."
Would the same go for alternate class features that the creature would qualify for? Examples : a Lillend taking the inspire awe instead of inspire courage, a creature with cleric spellcasting ( including domain) trading the domains for the equivalent devotion, or a domain for divine magician.
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2022-05-14, 04:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
Yeah, I feel like I dropped the ball with this round's theme. Would you participate in a next round with another theme with more options?
There are two things I thought of, maybe to use in conjunction:
- First, do as some other similar comps do and suggest three different themes for the people to choose. It wuld also help to gauge the enthusiasm for the comp
- Also, since people don't know the monsters as well as they do the classes, maybe make a list of all currently rated creatures that fit the bill for a given round, and put them at the beginning, to spare them the the hassle of searching for them.
What do you think of these? Do you have other propositions?
Oh, and about your build, an ECL 7 monster with fear, good natural attacks and a lot of disguise, I'd say it's a Maurezhi that would go around transformed, then reveal its hideous form (or waits for its invisibility to run out as it charges to attack) at the start of combat to frighten people with Abominable Form, and chain with any way to get free/swift intimidate and Fear to be sure to make everybody panicked (or maybe reveal yourself in the end to have the condition last longer). I'd say at least 2 levels of totemist to get more claw attacks on which to put paralysis, maybe one or two levels of fighter for intimidating strike (not sure, since using a standard action for attacks is not great when you have so many), definitely barbarian 1 for intimidating rage, and any ACF other than Lion totem (most probably Improved Grab, to combo with BBC later), definitely monk 1/2 to get way more natural attacks (since you can unarmed strike with your feet) and qualify for black blood cultist, and get more feats in the process. Then, your choice and pick of black blood cultist, Thayan gladiator and Kensai (if you want to be a Lawful creature with the [chaotic] subtype).Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
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2022-05-14, 04:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
No. The same way you can't get an ACF if you reach the spellcasting level of a class due to a prestige class, and you can't use an ACF of another class, even if you have the same ability (a rogue with fighter feats and who somehow got heavy armor proficiency cannot then trade these feats for the drow fighter ACF). ACF only work if you use the class for which these ACF were created.
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2022-05-14, 06:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
I feel GWG intent of alternating "class" rounds and "theme" rounds would work, relative to my interest at least.
On the theme side, I think the tricky part is picking a theme where monstering makes sense. A good chunk of it is the chef job, of course, but at least for me the chairman prompt "needs" to have optimization space.
The thing I like the most about all these comps is seeing some new sinergy I haven't seen before, or old sinergies applied in unusual places.
Fear is sadly well explored, at least to my knowledge, and making something solely to flex creative writing isn't my cup of coffee, I liked math and not literature a billion years ago in school and that hasn't changed :D.
I'm probably rambling a bit, but the bottom line is : I like the theme to lend itself to go monster for mechanical reasons, not just because "I fancy playing a monster".
fwiw, I was flirting with a cloaker/siren, but it's just.. insipid, moreso in hindsight considering the IC round is sirens all around, and like, it's cute but not really breaking new grounds?
I understand but consider, using lillend as an example, going dread witch for whatever reason, and then something else, let's say dirgesinger because why not.
How do this lillend compare to taking 9 bard levels instead? is not having access to inspire awe within the scope of "I want to make a fear machine" a malus big enough that a potential player may choose to just go normal bard instead?
I mean I feel both "don't" and "do" are fair here. In the sense that I feel it's fair to say lillend doesn't get ACF, because if you allow ACF then it's less about the monster and more about "normal builds".
otoh however, not having access to ACF makes me less likely to take a monster over the base class that monster has some features of, "it weights against" (which is both a bonus and a malus, because it means if I go mosnter I'm committing more)
sidewnote : what about alternate that aren't class specific? those that come to mind is skilled city-dweller, those features that exchange evasion, and dragonscale husk on top of my mind... and taking devotions in place of domains, since the wording on that is specifically "any class that gives a domain can instead take a devotion in place of the domain"Last edited by ciopo; 2022-05-14 at 06:48 AM.
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2022-05-14, 04:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
I was actually thinking of the second myself, since what monsters "count" can get a bit fuzzy. The first would also be useful as it'd give some defense from obtuse requirements.
Oh, and about your build, an ECL 7 monster with fear, good natural attacks and a lot of disguise, I'd say it's a Maurezhi that would go around transformed, then reveal its hideous form (or waits for its invisibility to run out as it charges to attack) at the start of combat to frighten people with Abominable Form, and chain with any way to get free/swift intimidate and Fear to be sure to make everybody panicked (or maybe reveal yourself in the end to have the condition last longer). I'd say at least 2 levels of totemist to get more claw attacks on which to put paralysis, maybe one or two levels of fighter for intimidating strike (not sure, since using a standard action for attacks is not great when you have so many), definitely barbarian 1 for intimidating rage, and any ACF other than Lion totem (most probably Improved Grab, to combo with BBC later), definitely monk 1/2 to get way more natural attacks (since you can unarmed strike with your feet) and qualify for black blood cultist, and get more feats in the process. Then, your choice and pick of black blood cultist, Thayan gladiator and Kensai (if you want to be a Lawful creature with the [chaotic] subtype).
Maurezhi is a very nearly perfect fit for that "core", even having a way to use the +1d6 Sneak Attack on the Banzai Charge. The point was Fear, and one of the few feats to give a Fear ability also dictates a +5 bonus to Intimidate, which is a skill check for Fear, but pretty much the only area-of-effect source is Samurai 10. Imperius Command causes that check to make enemies Cower for a round, which denies AC, which opens a few options to get off the Charge on something with no other way of having its AC denied to add Sneak Attack to a TWF Banzai Charge. Would need Energy Drain to have a disguise and still fit all 13 levels by the pure RAW, but that's somewhat covered by the asterisk.
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2022-05-17, 04:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
Read both entries first time. I'll need to reread them and then can write my judgment. Two to four days.
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2022-05-18, 01:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
Thanks for the update‚ loky!
While we're waiting‚ let's suggest a few themes for the next comp :
- Monster-in-charge :
Must have the Pounce or Rake ability
- Keep your monsters close‚ and your enemies closer :
Must have the Improved Grab or Constrict ability
- You can run from a monster‚ but you can't hide :
Must have Track as a bonus feat‚ or otherwise have a way to find creatures from afar (Discern Location SLA‚ Retriever's Find target...)
What do you think of these themes? Which one inspires you the most?Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
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2022-05-18, 02:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash II: Scary Monsters!
grabby ones