Questionable Content XVIII: "That's only sort of good news"

[Mordokai]

Why am I suddenly getting a feeling this is going to be a thinly veiled excuse for getting Faye and Bubbles on board of this whole trainwreck?

[VoxRationis]

Oh, no, we have ourselves a cult leader, too. Let's just stay in New England for the nonce, shall we?

[Eldan]

OKay, I'm increasingly satisfied that this isn't meant as "delightfully quirky", but instead as "disturbingly unstable". Which is good.

[Manga Shoggoth]

I'm increasingly reminded of Melon and her "married with a job" lifestile - simulating the form (very badly) with none of the actual understanding.

This looks to be a simillar thing, but modelling an organisation and at least some form of feedback loop so the thing can develop.

[Daywalker1983]

Why am I suddenly getting a feeling this is going to be a thinly veiled excuse for getting Faye and Bubbles on board of this whole trainwreck?

Would you mind explaining that?

[Mordokai]

Would you mind explaining that?

One of those "spur of the moment" ideas.

We presume Claire and Marten will move to Canada, since Jeph seems to be leaning heavily in that direction. We've seen that that would be a spectacularly bad idea, on account of everything presented to us so far, via Moray. But, as mentioned, Jeph seems to want to go that way, so if that's what he want, it will happen, regardless of red flags. Now, as it looks, Claire would need to get IS departement going, from the grounds up. Who do we know that has anything resembling the technology for that? Faye and Bubbles, of course.

Now, what do I know about setting up an IS department? Precisely nothing. Is there any link between IS and getting defunct robots back together? I don't know, but I would presume the answer is no. Will that stop Jeph?

...I wouldn't bet on it, honestly. If he can handwave it away with, "yeah, but Bubbles was in a military and is connected AI, surely she has the gist of it!"... once again, I wouldn't put it above him.

[Keltest]

One of those "spur of the moment" ideas.

We presume Claire and Marten will move to Canada, since Jeph seems to be leaning heavily in that direction. We've seen that that would be a spectacularly bad idea, on account of everything presented to us so far, via Moray. But, as mentioned, Jeph seems to want to go that way, so if that's what he want, it will happen, regardless of red flags. Now, as it looks, Claire would need to get IS departement going, from the grounds up. Who do we know that has anything resembling the technology for that? Faye and Bubbles, of course.

Now, what do I know about setting up an IS department? Precisely nothing. Is there any link between IS and getting defunct robots back together? I don't know, but I would presume the answer is no. Will that stop Jeph?

...I wouldn't bet on it, honestly. If he can handwave it away with, "yeah, but Bubbles was in a military and is connected AI, surely she has the gist of it!"... once again, I wouldn't put it above him.

Asking a pair of robotics engineers to put together an IS department would be approximately equivalent to asking an architect to build an engineering department on the basis of "architects build stuff, right? Build us a department!"

[Mordokai]

Asking a pair of robotics engineers to put together an IS department would be approximately equivalent to asking an architect to build an engineering department on the basis of "architects build stuff, right? Build us a department!"

I imagined as much. It says a lot about my faith in Jeph's writing that I would even consider such a possibility. And yet, I did and am still not quite ready to throw it away.

[hungrycrow]

I imagined as much. It says a lot about my faith in Jeph's writing that I would even consider such a possibility. And yet, I did and am still not quite ready to throw it away.

I mean, they're already treating advanced android repair like an automotive shop.

[Keltest]

I mean, they're already treating advanced android repair like an automotive shop.

Didnt Faye have some sort of actual engineering degree though? Given that robots wont self repair like humans, at least not yet, a basic day to day maintenance facility only makes sense as a service, and its not that implausible that a mechanical engineer would be able to pick up the skills at the direction of somebody more familiar with the technical aspects.

[hungrycrow]

Didnt Faye have some sort of actual engineering degree though? Given that robots wont self repair like humans, at least not yet, a basic day to day maintenance facility only makes sense as a service, and its not that implausible that a mechanical engineer would be able to pick up the skills at the direction of somebody more familiar with the technical aspects.

It's hard to remember across 5000 comics, but according to the wiki she went to school for sculpting? And that gave her welding skills?

Also, although robots won't self repair don't they still have artificial muscles and skin? Seems a bit more specialized than general mechanical engineering.

[Keltest]

It's hard to remember across 5000 comics, but according to the wiki she went to school for sculpting? And that gave her welding skills?

Also, although robots won't self repair don't they still have artificial muscles and skin? Seems a bit more specialized than general mechanical engineering.

A bit more sure, but the physical component of a robot is actually the easy part. Humans are a lot more complicated even than QC robots due to our various self-maintenance systems, digestive tract and general support systems for our brains. You take all that out and making a robot arm that can physically move through the motions is relatively straightforward. Which is not to say its trivial, exactly, but since they arent manufacturing the parts a lot of the really technical work has been done for them already.

And every time we see them working, Bubbles is the one walking Faye through the steps needed, which fits with Bubbles actually understanding the engineering of the body overall while Faye just knows how to assemble the parts correctly.

[Vinyadan]

This is encroaching Dilbert territory.

[BRC]

A bit more sure, but the physical component of a robot is actually the easy part. Humans are a lot more complicated even than QC robots due to our various self-maintenance systems, digestive tract and general support systems for our brains. You take all that out and making a robot arm that can physically move through the motions is relatively straightforward. Which is not to say its trivial, exactly, but since they arent manufacturing the parts a lot of the really technical work has been done for them already.

And every time we see them working, Bubbles is the one walking Faye through the steps needed, which fits with Bubbles actually understanding the engineering of the body overall while Faye just knows how to assemble the parts correctly.

My understanding was that Bubbles has the actual engineering skills, Faye just has some technical skills with how to operate the tools, and some aesthetic sensibilities (Relevant when you're fixing up Robot Boxers who want to look cool). All of Faye's actual "Repairing Robots" knowledge is stuff she's learned from Bubbles.


Re: Cubetown, This only way this works is if the Director is also the source of all this funding. Some AI who stumbled into obscene wealth and decided to throw it all at building this place, replacing actual expertise with money and enthusiasm.

[Rodin]

A bit more sure, but the physical component of a robot is actually the easy part. Humans are a lot more complicated even than QC robots due to our various self-maintenance systems, digestive tract and general support systems for our brains. You take all that out and making a robot arm that can physically move through the motions is relatively straightforward. Which is not to say its trivial, exactly, but since they arent manufacturing the parts a lot of the really technical work has been done for them already.

And every time we see them working, Bubbles is the one walking Faye through the steps needed, which fits with Bubbles actually understanding the engineering of the body overall while Faye just knows how to assemble the parts correctly.

Yep. I had no problem with Faye learning to work on robots, especially of the Punchbot "tin man" variety. It's harder to believe that she was capable of working on the more human robots we see later, like May and Millie.

The level of detail in the robots seems to vary in weird ways. Millie's leg getting repaired was "gory", but May's leg falling off was like the leg falling off a Barbie doll. You could put that down to the complexity of the robot...except May's face structure was as complex as human muscles.

It doesn't matter sufficiently for me to care. Faye had a reasonable background for doing basic robot work, and was trained to do more advanced things by an expert. 6 months is a short period in real time but an eternity in comic-book time.

The whole business with Cubetown though...yeesh. I feel certain that the comic is moving their full-time, and that Faye and Bubbles are going to come with. Maybe not to work with Claire directly, but can you imagine Moray saying "we didn't realize we'd need basic maintenance out on the ocean, do you know anybody?" I can.

[Wraith]

This has to be like, a Secret Test of Character or something, right?

Like, Claire thinks it through and tells them, "This is nothing like the job I applied for and I'm completely out of my depth, you'll have to hire someone else" at which point Moray drops the pretence?

"Finally, thank Christ!" She goes, lighting up a cigarette. "You wouldn't believe how many of these presumptuous fleshbags said 'yes' no matter how random and insane it sounded, just for ANY job here. Now one of them is working in the cafeteria and the other two are scrubbing toilets - so, since you're not just a sycophant, how'd you ACTUALLY like to join us as a Librarian Grade 1? You'll be working for the Senior Librarian, Brian, who answers to the Libraries Director. You'd start on $26k plus housing, medical and dental, following 12 weeks probation period?"

[BRC]

I guess having the entire place run by cloud cookoolander goofballs IS a decent way to avoid the "How does a guy whose been writing webcomics for almost two decades now set his comic in an academic institution". Establish that these people don't know how to run a research institution either.

Yep. I had no problem with Faye learning to work on robots, especially of the Punchbot "tin man" variety. It's harder to believe that she was capable of working on the more human robots we see later, like May and Millie.

The level of detail in the robots seems to vary in weird ways. Millie's leg getting repaired was "gory", but May's leg falling off was like the leg falling off a Barbie doll. You could put that down to the complexity of the robot...except May's face structure was as complex as human muscles.

It doesn't matter sufficiently for me to care. Faye had a reasonable background for doing basic robot work, and was trained to do more advanced things by an expert. 6 months is a short period in real time but an eternity in comic-book time.

The whole business with Cubetown though...yeesh. I feel certain that the comic is moving their full-time, and that Faye and Bubbles are going to come with. Maybe not to work with Claire directly, but can you imagine Moray saying "we didn't realize we'd need basic maintenance out on the ocean, do you know anybody?" I can.

Robots seem to take two forms, tin-cans with hard plastic or metal shells, and more humanlike synthetic flesh (Plus whatever Moray's got going on).

I wouldn't be surprised if older/cheaper models used a mix, tin-can for limbs and torso, synthetic flesh for the face to make it appropriately expressive.

[FLHerne]

The level of detail in the robots seems to vary in weird ways. Millie's leg getting repaired was "gory", but May's leg falling off was like the leg falling off a Barbie doll. You could put that down to the complexity of the robot...except May's face structure was as complex as human muscles.

This one makes sense to me -- May's old body was built on the cheap, so the limbs are as simple as possible, but you need facial muscles or a system of similar complexity in order to mimic human expressions. There are other robots in the comic (PunchBot, say) that don't even attempt it, but I'm willing to believe the rehab department set some minimum standard on that front to help the occupant re-integrate into society or whatever.

==

In general, I find the "wacky disorganised robots" easier to accept the more of them there are...

It's beginning to seem like this is the norm for robots that haven't spent most of their 'lives' immersed in human society. They apparently go straight from creation to adulthood without the years of mental development that humans have, and perhaps this is a common side effect.

That partly answers the question someone posed about why robots, not needing to eat, sleep, etc., haven't already displaced humans from the workforce - a lot of them just can't perform most jobs effectively (looking at you, Beepatrice), and they prefer to live and work in 'traditional' roles in order to learn from humans and each other about how to be functional individuals.

In turn that explains why the vast majority of embodied robots are human-standard, when the human form is frankly inconvenient. I've always wanted more arms.

Also why Melon's friends don't seem particularly concerned about her, while a human with similar behaviour would be considered mentally ill and at minimum have some kind of social care support.

[Mordokai]

I mean, they're already treating advanced android repair like an automotive shop.

Thank you.

This has to be like, a Secret Test of Character or something, right?

Like, Claire thinks it through and tells them, "This is nothing like the job I applied for and I'm completely out of my depth, you'll have to hire someone else" at which point Moray drops the pretence?

"Finally, thank Christ!" She goes, lighting up a cigarette. "You wouldn't believe how many of these presumptuous fleshbags said 'yes' no matter how random and insane it sounded, just for ANY job here. Now one of them is working in the cafeteria and the other two are scrubbing toilets - so, since you're not just a sycophant, how'd you ACTUALLY like to join us as a Librarian Grade 1? You'll be working for the Senior Librarian, Brian, who answers to the Libraries Director. You'd start on $26k plus housing, medical and dental, following 12 weeks probation period?"

If that turns out to be the case, I will gladly issue a public apology to Jeph. Because, as cliche as that may be, it would be a pretty awesome solution to many problems presented so far.

[halfeye]

Re: Cubetown, This only way this works is if the Director is also the source of all this funding. Some AI who stumbled into obscene wealth and decided to throw it all at building this place, replacing actual expertise with money and enthusiasm.

I'm coming to suspect that Yay is the director.

[Keltest]

Oh Claire...

[geoduck]

Yeah, c'mon Jeph, if you're moving the strip to Canada, fine, but there had to be a better way to do it than this.

[Mechalich]

Yeah, c'mon Jeph, if you're moving the strip to Canada, fine, but there had to be a better way to do it than this.

Indeed. Especially, depending on the precise legal particulars and how the position is structured on the relevant official documentation, if you aren't qualified for a position you take in another country you may be committing immigration fraud. For example, if Cubetown submits a LMIA (Labor Market Impact Assessment) for an Information Sciences Director position to the ESDC (Employment and Social Development Canada) for which Claire is not qualified, and then Claire misrepresents her qualifications to meet the requirements, that's fraud. And Claire absolutely would collapse in front of the CBSA Officer who conducts the required entry interview for all foreign workers and end up barred from Canada for life.

[PhantomFox]

Yeah, c'mon Jeph, if you're moving the strip to Canada, fine, but there had to be a better way to do it than this.

I would challenge this assumption. Everything about this scene is screaming this is a bad idea, so it's probably safe to assume that it is a bad idea, from Jeph's perspective. So why is he setting up this as a bad decision? If we assume the end goal is getting them to Canada, all the sketchyness would have to be resolved first, which seems hard.

If we assume they're not going to Canada, then Claire has to be convinced this is a bad idea and more importantly not worth it. Which digs into drama about how after setting up how valuing her own needs is okay in the context of taking the job, the reverse is true in that not taking the job is also valuing her needs, though different ones she hasn't thought about yet. This seems like a much more likely storyline.

But what about Jeph making a point of how the comic wasn't ending? I would say that while we assumed that he meant moving to Canada wasn't a comic ending event, it's actually that the comic is not ending because they're not going to Canada in the first place.

[geoduck]

I would challenge this assumption. Everything about this scene is screaming this is a bad idea, so it's probably safe to assume that it is a bad idea, from Jeph's perspective. So why is he setting up this as a bad decision? If we assume the end goal is getting them to Canada, all the sketchyness would have to be resolved first, which seems hard.

If we assume they're not going to Canada, then Claire has to be convinced this is a bad idea and more importantly not worth it. Which digs into drama about how after setting up how valuing her own needs is okay in the context of taking the job, the reverse is true in that not taking the job is also valuing her needs, though different ones she hasn't thought about yet. This seems like a much more likely storyline.

But what about Jeph making a point of how the comic wasn't ending? I would say that while we assumed that he meant moving to Canada wasn't a comic ending event, it's actually that the comic is not ending because they're not going to Canada in the first place.

That's all certainly a possibility, but I will be very surprised if Claire and Marten don't up having Wacky Adventures In The Cube.

[Ionathus]

See, this doesn't read like Jeph realizes what a trash fire Cubetown is. I think, in Jeph's mind, the ONLY problem so far is that the AIs are a little quirky and disorganized, and that would be stressful for Claire. In reality, Claire would be well within reason to run away screaming from this interview. But in some twisted way, I think this is actually supposed to be Claire demonstrating...growth? That she's...willing to jump into an unknown opportunity? And not being timid anymore?

Which...hoo boy. If that's the case, he picked the worst possible way to have Claire get her "breakthrough". Because this is a BAD JOB.

[Rodin]

I need to set up a macro that posts “Sigh. As expected.” in this thread every day. Because that’s my daily reaction.

[Eldan]

Welp. She really is getting into the racecar with the driver who shouts "Steering wheels! What a great idea!"

I think I'm done with this comic now. It's been a good... 15 years?

[Gez]

You could put that down to the complexity of the robot...except May's face structure was as complex as human muscles.

That's something that should probably be chalked to artistic license. It's really hard for an artist to refrain from making your character emote. Try to imagine how the strips with May would have looked if, before getting her new body, her face was some sort of static mask.

[Wraith]

On the one hand; young 20-somethings fresh out of college ignoring red flags to get into "their dream career that they worked so hard for" is a perfectly normal and plausible plot. Claire has been told to prioritise herself and ignore that little voice of anxiety in order to fulfil her dreams - we could have a great and enriching conversation about her not being able to tell the difference between the voice of anxiety (which she always has, all the time) and the little voice of legitimate caution, and where that leads her.

On the other... I don't trust Jeph with that depth of conversation. It's been years since he has written anything that couldn't be resolved with an apology and a hug, and he has trampled across all sorts of nuance in between that suggests he doesn't have any interest in learning to do otherwise.

I don't know which way this plot is going to go - Claire might take the job and be an unexpected (and undeserved?) success, or it could be a ****-show that sends her packing in 6 months when Cubetown goes broke and sinks into the ocean - but the real problem is... I don't think that the journey to either resolution is going to be interesting, or relatable, or have anything happen that exceeds the very vague summaries given above. Claire goes to Cubetown, it's hard work and exhausting, she gets a hug and a pep-talk, and then either turns it around or comes home. That's it. And it will take 4 years to get to that point. Dora and Tai will still be planning their wedding. Penny's face appears on milk cartons for a cycle, and then is replaced by Emily, and then Brun, and then she too is gone....