A Thought on Alignment

[Neon Knight]

I seem to recall a passage from the Book of Exalted Deeds stating that it was always a good act to destroy an evil outsider. Makes sense until you consider something.

Demons go around eating other demons all the time. Devils and demons fight each other frequently. Theoretically, if a devil or demon engaged in frequent enough combat with other evil outsiders, they could inadvertently become good, or at least neutral.

"But," you protest, "it says that devil are always LE and demons are always CE." Well, what about that Succubus Paladin, hm? WotC made that.

For my conclusion, I'd like to state that:

Either the statement in the Book of Exalted deeds is incorrect, or every single Demon and Devil in the cosmos has found out someway to assure the generation of evil to avoid alignment shift from killing each other.

I'd like to know if there was anything published that explains this away. I can't think of anything.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Of COURSE BoED is incorrect. Remember the designers used the skewed and stupid perception of "LG is 00brbg00d and CE is badz0rz", and that they say that personal purity is more important than the lives of many. BoED is a disaster for the alignment system, and you should take anything it says about it with a grain of salt.

[Thomix]

It's always a good act to destroy a evil outsider, if you made it for a good reason, not if it's only because you don't like his face or because you are evil and you want to bash all thing around you.

[Wyvern_55]

personally, I believe that a paladin must have an adequate reason for any sort of justice dealt out by his hand. HOWEVER Evil outsiders and undead are not purview to this rule, as evil outsiders are quite literally COMPOSED out of pure evil, as such, they should be physically incapable of good. Likewise, undead are animated by negative energy, and should likewise be pure evil, (though some undead do have an exception.) any sort of good 'evil outsider' should realistically be impossible, (though I am well aware that some campaigns have a modified version of the afterlife)

And one more thing, evil creatures killing other evil creatures for killing sake is not a good action, it may be convenient from time to time, but letting a Balor on the mortal plane live based only on the chance it MIGHT kill some other evil things during it's inevitable rampage across the countryside should be discouraged.

[puppyavenger]

Likewise, undead are animated by negative energy.

uh negative energy is unaligned.

[The_Snark]

uh negative energy is unaligned.

Wizards has been notoriously unable to make up its mind about that, actually.

Even if a cleric is neutral, channeling positive energy is a good act and channeling negative energy is evil.

Add to that the fact that zombies and undead are evil despite having no mind of their own; the evil's going to have to come from the animating force.

But then, the Inflict line of spells doesn't have the Evil subtype*, and the Negative Energy Plane isn't evil-aligned. They really don't have a unified stance on this.

*Yet Deathwatch does. So unfair.

And... yeah, the Book of Exalted Deeds has some interesting ideas, but much of it must be glossed over or thrown out. That rule about evil outsiders falls into that category. Along with the general idea that there is an objectively Right thing to do in every situation.

[Gungnir]

Demons, being made of Evil, always kill each other in the most sadistic and painful manner possible. They get 2 evil points for taking joy in this, and 1 good point for killing an evil outsider.

Do I win?

[Ozymandias]

Maybe doing good deeds doesn't actually alter their alignments, as they are by definition evil?

Wait, you want this to make sense? Read a different book.

[Neon Knight]

Maybe doing good deeds doesn't actually alter their alignments, as they are by definition evil?

Wait, you want this to make sense? Read a different book.

Also, see the Succubus Paladin. Apparently, Devils and demons can become good.

[Ozymandias]

That's sort of wishy-washy - "always lawful evil except when not"?

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Or, rather, on the heads of how many demons must one dance before one becomes an angel? These are questions the answers to which man was not meant to know.

[TheElfLord]

Either the statement in the Book of Exalted deeds is incorrect, or every single Demon and Devil in the cosmos has found out someway to assure the generation of evil to avoid alignment shift from killing each other.

See after a sucessful raid in the Blood war, your average devil or demon goes back to his house in hell, eats a few babies, rapes some puppies, and tortures a few lost souls for fun. After a few hours of this any good karma it gained from killing demons/devils is totalaly outnumbered by the bad karma.

[Mephisto]

DND alignment in a nutshell: murder is negotiable, but using certain tools is always evil.

[puppyavenger]

DND alignment in a nutshell: murder is negotiable, but using certain tools is always evil.

No murdering people that can be mistaken for humanoid for humans is neogotiable, everything else is fine unless it kills you.

[Kompera]

[...]And... yeah, the Book of Exalted Deeds has some interesting ideas, but much of it must be glossed over or thrown out. That rule about evil outsiders falls into that category. Along with the general idea that there is an objectively Right thing to do in every situation.

Exactly. There is always a subjectively right thing to do in every situation. After that, it's up to you and your GM to decide if it falls within your alignment or class or other codes of conduct.