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Thread: A Thought on Alignment
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2007-11-25, 07:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
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- Wichita, Kansas
A Thought on Alignment
I seem to recall a passage from the Book of Exalted Deeds stating that it was always a good act to destroy an evil outsider. Makes sense until you consider something.
Demons go around eating other demons all the time. Devils and demons fight each other frequently. Theoretically, if a devil or demon engaged in frequent enough combat with other evil outsiders, they could inadvertently become good, or at least neutral.
"But," you protest, "it says that devil are always LE and demons are always CE." Well, what about that Succubus Paladin, hm? WotC made that.
For my conclusion, I'd like to state that:
Either the statement in the Book of Exalted deeds is incorrect, or every single Demon and Devil in the cosmos has found out someway to assure the generation of evil to avoid alignment shift from killing each other.
I'd like to know if there was anything published that explains this away. I can't think of anything.
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2007-11-25, 07:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2007
Re: A Thought on Alignment
Of COURSE BoED is incorrect. Remember the designers used the skewed and stupid perception of "LG is 00brbg00d and CE is badz0rz", and that they say that personal purity is more important than the lives of many. BoED is a disaster for the alignment system, and you should take anything it says about it with a grain of salt.
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2007-11-25, 07:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A Thought on Alignment
It's always a good act to destroy a evil outsider, if you made it for a good reason, not if it's only because you don't like his face or because you are evil and you want to bash all thing around you.
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2007-11-25, 08:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2006
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Re: A Thought on Alignment
personally, I believe that a paladin must have an adequate reason for any sort of justice dealt out by his hand. HOWEVER Evil outsiders and undead are not purview to this rule, as evil outsiders are quite literally COMPOSED out of pure evil, as such, they should be physically incapable of good. Likewise, undead are animated by negative energy, and should likewise be pure evil, (though some undead do have an exception.) any sort of good 'evil outsider' should realistically be impossible, (though I am well aware that some campaigns have a modified version of the afterlife)
And one more thing, evil creatures killing other evil creatures for killing sake is not a good action, it may be convenient from time to time, but letting a Balor on the mortal plane live based only on the chance it MIGHT kill some other evil things during it's inevitable rampage across the countryside should be discouraged.Spoiler
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2007-11-25, 09:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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Spoiler
played the Space Pope in Total War 2125
..and the Papal States of Luna in Total War 2260
Playing
The Gears Chosen in Total Way: Broken City
The Spindleshanks Crusade in Total War: 40K
Dragon Avatar by Serp
Darkness Fell, and with it Light
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2007-11-25, 09:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2006
Re: A Thought on Alignment
Wizards has been notoriously unable to make up its mind about that, actually.
Originally Posted by The SRD
But then, the Inflict line of spells doesn't have the Evil subtype*, and the Negative Energy Plane isn't evil-aligned. They really don't have a unified stance on this.
*Yet Deathwatch does. So unfair.
And... yeah, the Book of Exalted Deeds has some interesting ideas, but much of it must be glossed over or thrown out. That rule about evil outsiders falls into that category. Along with the general idea that there is an objectively Right thing to do in every situation.Last edited by The_Snark; 2007-11-25 at 10:00 PM.
Avatar by GryffonDurime. Thanks!
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2007-11-25, 10:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2006
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Re: A Thought on Alignment
Demons, being made of Evil, always kill each other in the most sadistic and painful manner possible. They get 2 evil points for taking joy in this, and 1 good point for killing an evil outsider.
Do I win?Last edited by Gungnir; 2007-11-25 at 10:37 PM.
SpoilerDM: "Alright, you've successfully hidden in a tree without the pack of Wyld-tainted tigers noticing you. What now?"
Me: "Oh! I know! I'll use Sense Riding Technique to use one as a spy, so I can see if someone is controlling them at all."
DM:"Alright. Did you have a specific tiger in mind?"
Me: "I'll take the most normal looking one near me."
DM: "Cool! You see nothing. This tiger has had its brain replaced with a brain-shaped cantaloupe."
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2007-11-25, 10:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
Re: A Thought on Alignment
Maybe doing good deeds doesn't actually alter their alignments, as they are by definition evil?
Wait, you want this to make sense? Read a different book.
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2007-11-25, 10:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
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- Wichita, Kansas
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2007-11-25, 10:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
Re: A Thought on Alignment
That's sort of wishy-washy - "always lawful evil except when not"?
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Or, rather, on the heads of how many demons must one dance before one becomes an angel? These are questions the answers to which man was not meant to know.
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2007-11-25, 10:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A Thought on Alignment
See after a sucessful raid in the Blood war, your average devil or demon goes back to his house in hell, eats a few babies, rapes some puppies, and tortures a few lost souls for fun. After a few hours of this any good karma it gained from killing demons/devils is totalaly outnumbered by the bad karma.
The Historian: This DM has the history of his world written out millenniums back. It is intricate, complex, and most importantly, incredibly long. Moreover, everything your characters are doing is based on the previous history. It also tends to lead to loudmouth NPCS who will explain hundreds of years of history at a time while the players try to gouge their eardrums out with mechanical pencils.
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2007-11-25, 10:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2007
Re: A Thought on Alignment
DND alignment in a nutshell: murder is negotiable, but using certain tools is always evil.
Originally Posted by Tor the Fallen
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2007-11-25, 11:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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- GMT-5
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Re: A Thought on Alignment
Spoiler
played the Space Pope in Total War 2125
..and the Papal States of Luna in Total War 2260
Playing
The Gears Chosen in Total Way: Broken City
The Spindleshanks Crusade in Total War: 40K
Dragon Avatar by Serp
Darkness Fell, and with it Light
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2007-11-25, 11:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2007