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  1. - Top - End - #61
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXIX

    Can I ask for a 3-day extension in advance? Current schedule won't work for me.
    Screaming defiance with the last breath

    It would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated.


    My judgments and medals!

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    Song, Sword, and Sorcery: my 5E homebrew half-caster bard (Version 2.0!)

  2. - Top - End - #62
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Gruftzwerg View Post
    &


    Does this mean that the crit range stacking exception also stacks with "impact weapons"?
    Because otherwise it can still be problematic to go for weapons outside of the regular keen restriction (if you can't spare the feat and need to rely on "impact").
    The rules for arcane duelist lay out specific exceptions for stacking. Other things like weapon of impact do not stack. The answer to Sam's question simply means that you can apply false keenness to a weapon that is not piercing or slashing.

    Quote Originally Posted by H_H_F_F View Post
    Can I ask for a 3-day extension in advance? Current schedule won't work for me.
    Sure.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  3. - Top - End - #63
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    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by ciopo View Post
    Yeah same, and that's what confuses me, because then false keenness doesn't have any strange interaction with dexterous attack, making its last paragraph superflous.

    let's have an hypothetical weapon that deals 10 flat damage, and is 19-20/x2

    without arcane duelist, it dos 10 damage, or 20 on a crit
    with dexterous attack at -3, it does 7 damage, or 14 on a crit
    with dexterous attack at -3 and false keenness.. it does 7 damage, or 14 on a crit, just the same, bwuh?

    perhabs that last false keenness paragraph is actually correct in making the example of going from 4 to 12 malus if we crit with the rapier?

    with dexterous attack at -3 and false keenness, it does 7 damage or 11 on a crit ?

    making that last paragraph something synonymous to "your critical multiplier is increased by one for the penalty given by dexterous attack.

    But that's annoyingly fiddly. I'd favor an interpretation that put the dexterous penalty outside the brackets, meaning :
    without arcane duelist, it dos 10 damage, or 20 on a crit
    with dexterous attack at -3, it does 7 damage, or 17 on a crit (sum all your damage as normal, and only apply the penalty when you tally the total)
    with dexterous attack at -3 and false keenness.. it does 7 damage, or 14 on a crit

    Or let's just ignore that last paragraph of false keenness as "author is confused", because the penalty to the damage roll was already multiplied on a crit simply by the virtue of being a penalty to the damage roll
    I've been struggling the past hour to get this straight. But now I guess I know what the author wants to tell us.

    Lets dissect the ability:
    Quote Originally Posted by False Keenness
    To activate the keen effect, she must subtract the weapon's normal threat range for critical hits from her attack bonus. For example, if the arcane duelist wields a rapier, she must subtract 3 from her attack bonus, since the rapier has a threat range of 18-20, to make it keen.
    We get the "critrange" as attack penalty.

    _______________________

    >>part about stacking rules
    _______________________
    If the arcane duelist uses this power in conjunction with the dexterous attack power, the damage dealt by a critical hit is reduced by the weapon's critical multiplier. Thus, the arcane duelist wielding a rapier and using dexterous attack to reduce the damage by 4 on her rapier has it reduced by 12 if she scores a critical hit using this power. The weapon must still do a minimum 1 point of damage.
    1. non-crits aren't further affected in their dmg (except from the regular Dexterous Attack penalty).

    2. the weapons crit multiplier becomes a dmg penalty before the crit dmg gets multiplied. In the chase of the rapier (x2), this adds a -2 penalty to the mentioned Dexterous Attack penalty of -4, summing up to -6. Since we crit for double dmg (x2 Rapier) the total reduction for the crit is -12 in the end of the calculation.
    TL;DR: It's just simply your crit multiplier as penalty to damage that works like any other dmg penalty for crits.


    ________________

    Any complains against my interpretation? I hope that it is right (the numbers are at least matching).

  4. - Top - End - #64
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXIX

    I can tell I'm going to need to re-read the Viscount's final ruling on this stuff before judging.

    I actually find the mechanics in this SI fascinating and am looking forward to seeing what people do with it.

    I have my own opinions on how this would normally shake out in terms of power, how you'd make it effective, how enemies would act to make the SI less effective. But the devil will be in the details of how the Chefs use the PRC and try to leverage the odd mechanics.

  5. - Top - End - #65
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Gruftzwerg View Post
    I've been struggling the past hour to get this straight. But now I guess I know what the author wants to tell us.

    Lets dissect the ability:

    We get the "critrange" as attack penalty.

    _______________________

    >>part about stacking rules
    _______________________


    1. non-crits aren't further affected in their dmg (except from the regular Dexterous Attack penalty).

    2. the weapons crit multiplier becomes a dmg penalty before the crit dmg gets multiplied. In the chase of the rapier (x2), this adds a -2 penalty to the mentioned Dexterous Attack penalty of -4, summing up to -6. Since we crit for double dmg (x2 Rapier) the total reduction for the crit is -12 in the end of the calculation.
    TL;DR: It's just simply your crit multiplier as penalty to damage that works like any other dmg penalty for crits.


    ________________

    Any complains against my interpretation? I hope that it is right (the numbers are at least matching).
    Personally I don't, and the numbers match indeed, and I kind of like how it "reverse scale with the multiplier, basically coming down to "multiplier^2 as extra penalty".

    The headscratcher is coming to a consensus before committing, because I'd hate to write down "wrong math". Makes me twitchy :D

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by ciopo View Post
    Personally I don't, and the numbers match indeed, and I kind of like how it "reverse scale with the multiplier, basically coming down to "multiplier^2 as extra penalty".

    The headscratcher is coming to a consensus before committing, because I'd hate to write down "wrong math". Makes me twitchy :D
    imho no. You sole add "crit multiplier" as normal penalty to your (base) damage (as normal for modifiers!).

    It's just the nature of crits that they multiply the outcome with your crit multiplier, (and the fact that the penalty sole comes into play when you actually crit). Again, just base d&d math.

    Just the way it is presented/worded in the ability is a bit hard to gasp at first glance.

  7. - Top - End - #67
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXIX

    Yes I mean, that "extra" damage penalty will always come out to be 4, 9, 16, 25 and so on , regardless of what other penalties or bonuses we have, it's easy enough to plug in onto actual gameplay, because it's just "after you totaled your damage, if it was a crit and you used both false keenness and dexterous attack, subtract the square of your crit multiplier. doing (amount-5)*5 or doing (amount*5)-(5*5) gives the same result.
    But it's annoying to plug it in on the formula for average damage, because it's worse if you have a bigger multiplier, and it's also worse if you have a high threat range. But what it's annoying is that you can't go express it in %, because it's always a flat amount and what the relative weight of that flat amount will depend on the rest of your build.

    Like, stupidly, using false keenness with dexterous attack lowers your average damage if you're using a 20/xX weapon , because you go from 0.05*0+0.90*1+0.05*2 ("100%") to (0.05*0+0.85*1+0.1*2) = 105% -4 , that 5% needs to be more than 4 to break even, so if your crit is less than 80 damage, you got worse.
    Granted, hitting for more than 20 average before crit isn't hard, and then it all becomes the usual mindgame of accuracy vs payout

  8. - Top - End - #68
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXIX

    The math for false keenness is so weird that the only way we can make it work is by making up interpretations. I don't think that worth it.

    That's why the ruling is that we're ignoring the example provided in the class. When you make a critical hit, apply the penalty to your damage roll before multiplying the damage.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  9. - Top - End - #69
    Troll in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by ciopo View Post
    Yes I mean, that "extra" damage penalty will always come out to be 4, 9, 16, 25 and so on , regardless of what other penalties or bonuses we have, it's easy enough to plug in onto actual gameplay, because it's just "after you totaled your damage, if it was a crit and you used both false keenness and dexterous attack, subtract the square of your crit multiplier. doing (amount-5)*5 or doing (amount*5)-(5*5) gives the same result.
    But it's annoying to plug it in on the formula for average damage, because it's worse if you have a bigger multiplier, and it's also worse if you have a high threat range. But what it's annoying is that you can't go express it in %, because it's always a flat amount and what the relative weight of that flat amount will depend on the rest of your build.

    Like, stupidly, using false keenness with dexterous attack lowers your average damage if you're using a 20/xX weapon , because you go from 0.05*0+0.90*1+0.05*2 ("100%") to (0.05*0+0.85*1+0.1*2) = 105% -4 , that 5% needs to be more than 4 to break even, so if your crit is less than 80 damage, you got worse.
    Granted, hitting for more than 20 average before crit isn't hard, and then it all becomes the usual mindgame of accuracy vs payout
    Oh yeah, I get it know. sry it was to early as I read your other post.
    I guess I get now how hard it can be for the authors to find the right words (with no room for misinterpretation)..^^


    Quote Originally Posted by The Viscount View Post
    The math for false keenness is so weird that the only way we can make it work is by making up interpretations. I don't think that worth it.

    That's why the ruling is that we're ignoring the example provided in the class. When you make a critical hit, apply the penalty to your damage roll before multiplying the damage.
    That's what imho the text is basically saying in the authors weird way. Well, whatever. I guess we'll see how this all turns out. And if the judges get how it is supposed to work and how they have to judge it is on another page ;)

    I'm looking forward to the incoming mess xD

    Especially as the two judges encouraged to go all out here (dipping and stuff...). I'm curious to see what ideas we'll see. The Si looked boring at first glance, but as it seem it is rather intriguing.

  10. - Top - End - #70
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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXIX

    What is actual deadline now?
    If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro

    My competition's medals.

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    1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.

  11. - Top - End - #71
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXIX

    Currently Wednesday June 1st. I've updated the OP to reflect it.
    Last edited by The Viscount; 2022-05-29 at 09:53 AM.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  12. - Top - End - #72
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    WhamBamSam's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXIX

    I think that should be the 1st, this coming Wednesday, which would be a 3 day extension and is what the OP says. Looks like the 15th is the judging deadline.

    Iron Chef Medals
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    Sir Driscoll Conia - Silver - IC L

    Nick Snarespan - Gold - IC LIII

    Lucy "Legs" Silvertail - Bronze - IC LXVIII

    Bolfarg of Knoss - Gold - IC LXXVII

    Ivarr Deathborn - Bronze - IC LXXVII

    Ahmtel - Silver - IC LXXVIII

    Tocke of Nessus - Gold - IC LXXIX

    The Blessed Third - Silver - IC LXXXI

    Galahad Galapagos - Gold - IC LXXXIV

    Sai-don, Knight of the Tide - Bronze - IC LXXXIV

  13. - Top - End - #73
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXIX

    Yes, that's what it should be.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  14. - Top - End - #74
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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXIX

    Zaq, Seward, or anybody other who want and can, while entries here aren't revealed, how do you look at proposal to judge a bit in the current Zinc Saucier round? Yes, it's slightly different from IC, but there are only two entries in this round. I and participants will be very glad if somebody would volunteer.
    If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro

    My competition's medals.

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    1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.

  15. - Top - End - #75
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXIX

    As a heads up to any chefs still cooking: I likely won't be able to post the reveal until some time after 23:59 GMT tomorrow, so you will have some extra cooking time.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  16. - Top - End - #76
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    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by The Viscount View Post
    As a heads up to any chefs still cooking: I likely won't be able to post the reveal until some time after 23:59 GMT tomorrow, so you will have some extra cooking time.
    I appreciate the extra time =)

  17. - Top - End - #77
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXIX

    Sorry gang, really late day today. Won't have time to post the reveal. Hoping for tomorrow at around this time/a little before this time.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  18. - Top - End - #78
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    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXIX

    Good for me! I have a decent chance to make it by the deadline, then.
    Screaming defiance with the last breath

    It would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated.


    My judgments and medals!

    The Iron Chef Optimization spreadsheet!

    Song, Sword, and Sorcery: my 5E homebrew half-caster bard (Version 2.0!)

  19. - Top - End - #79
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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by H_H_F_F View Post
    Good for me! I have a decent chance to make it by the deadline, then.
    Cool! I like your entries. )
    If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro

    My competition's medals.

    Spoiler: For purposes of clarity
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    1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.

  20. - Top - End - #80
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    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXIX

    Finally submitted my build. Kind of ran out of brain juice by the time I got to writing the tactics section - which is a shame, because I think this build is cute and could shine more if I was able to be as eloquent as I usually strive to be. Will probably hurt my scores here, but this one doesn't feel like a winner anyway. I'm overall happy with it, and I'm looking forward to seeing what everyone else did!
    Screaming defiance with the last breath

    It would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated.


    My judgments and medals!

    The Iron Chef Optimization spreadsheet!

    Song, Sword, and Sorcery: my 5E homebrew half-caster bard (Version 2.0!)

  21. - Top - End - #81
    Troll in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by H_H_F_F View Post
    Finally submitted my build. Kind of ran out of brain juice by the time I got to writing the tactics section - which is a shame, because I think this build is cute and could shine more if I was able to be as eloquent as I usually strive to be. Will probably hurt my scores here, but this one doesn't feel like a winner anyway. I'm overall happy with it, and I'm looking forward to seeing what everyone else did!
    Nice that you finished your build. I'm also curious and looking forward what the others have cooked.

    Anyone still cooking or are we waiting for The Viscount and the reveal now?

  22. - Top - End - #82
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXIX

    Sorry, last night ran even later and I forgot to post before heading to bed.

    The wait is now over! It's time for the reveal! (Please hold off on posting until the all clear.)
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  23. - Top - End - #83
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXIX

    We're all MAD here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Friar Tack the MAD
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    "Speak softly but carry a big stick".
    in short : we use the staff of rapture (greater mighty whalloped) with a 13-20/x2 crit profile for critfishing with duplicates for slapfights!
    The article says : "Paladin arcane duelists are unheard-of because of the trickery involved" ,well, challenge accepted!

    Spoiler: Friar Tack the MAD
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    CG Azurin, Cleric 1/ Paladin 4 / Duskblade 1 / Hellreaver 1 / Arcane Duelist 10 / Hellreaver 4
    Napkin numbers:
    Str 24 (14 +6 item +4 inherent), Dex 24 (14 +6 item +4 inherent), Con 24(14+6 item +4 inherent), Int 24(14+6 item +4 inherent), Wis 18 (8 +6 item +4 inherent) , Cha 30 (15 + 5 level up +6 item +4 inherent)
    HP 6 +8d10 + 11d8 + 140 (239)
    AC 51 (10+7 DEX + 8 Armor+ 4 WIS +10 CHA +5 natural +5 deflection +2 dodge) Touch 38 Flatfooted 32
    BAB 14

    LAST MINUTE REVISION: removed impact, added "+2"
    (+2)Staff of rapture with evil outsider bane, enfeebling, mighty smiting, heavenly burst, prismatic burst, slow burst, vanishing. always deals nonlethal damage
    When we are critfishing with false keenness, we don't power attack, because we care about the burst effects. so the smacking, at full dexterous attack, and with the flurry of swords sticks is around +41/+41/+36/+31 (14 BAB +7 str +14 dexterous attack + 6 enhancement + 3 insight -1 false keenness, or possibly +38 if false keenness is ruled to be a 4 malus)for 4d6+15 (10 str +10 divine might -14 dexterous attack +3 insight +6 enh)with a 13-20/x2, multiplied 1+1d4+3 times from flurry, on a crit that's 1d6+2 str damage and extra 3d6 damage + DC 20 prismatic spray + DC 14 slow. plus bane if it's an evil outsider.
    When we aren't critfishing, we pay power attack with dexterous attack, so the above profile at the lowest hit modifier is +28/+28/+23/+18 for 4d6+43 etcetera, at 17-20/x2 if the target is evil. again modulo smite, modulo holy fury.
    We can divine might 16 times a day. That's 16 rounds of "+cha to damage",
    we have 8+8+9 smites (cleric/cleric/paladin). these are +6 to attack and +8 to damage for the two cleric smiting, and +12 to attack and +11 to damage for the paladin smite
    we can furious strike 14 times each encounter, for +4 to attack and + 2d6 to damage
    If we're allowed to take substitution levels in a setting-agnostic way, 5/day we can inspire courage for another +1 to us and allies
    I factored knowledge devotion as +3 insight, since that's the absolute minimum (14 rank + 7 int + 5 competence= 27 on a roll of 1, for +3)
    the "nova", doable 8 times a day by using all 3 smites in the same attack, is +56 (minus 1 or 4 false keenness) for 6d6+70 at 13-20/x2 crit, with attendant burst effects, done 1+1d4+3 times on a single target via flurry, not factoring bane

    Saves fort 36 reflex 33 will 37 with mettle (10 CHA + 5 resistance +2 morale and 7/7/4 ability score)

    Spoiler: leveling table
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    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Reflex Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st Cleric 1 +0 +2 +0 +2 32: {+4} Diplomacy: 4; {+4} Know(Arcana): 4; {+2} Know(Dungeon): 2; {+4} Know(Local): 4; {+2} Know(Nature): 2; {+4} Know(Planes): 4; {+4} Know(Religion): 4; {+2} Perform(Sing): 2; {+2} Speak Language(Celestial, Infernal); {+2} Tumble: 2; {+2} Use Magic Device: 2; Midnight dodge, Able learnerAzurin, Knowledge devotionCC p. 52 ACF; Apprentice Channel Incarnum, Celestial domain, Destruction domain, Cloistered, Lore
    2nd Paladin 1 +1 +4 +0 +2 4: {+1} Diplomacy: 5; Know(Arcana): 4; Know(Dungeon): 2; {+1} Know(Local): 5; Know(Nature): 2; {+1} Know(Planes): 5; Know(Religion): 4; Perform(Sing): 2; {+1} Tumble: 3; UMD: 2; Aura of good, inspire courage +1 Detect Evil, smite evil 1/day, Holy warrior, Skilled city dweller, harmonious knight
    3rd Paladin 2 +2 +5 +0 +2 4: {+1} Diplomacy: 6; Know(Arcana): 4; Know(Dungeon): 2; Know(Local): 5; Know(Nature): 2; Know(Planes): 5; Know(Religion): 4; {+1} Perform(Sing): 3; {+1} Tumble: 4; {+1} UMD: 3; Mobility Divine grace, Lay on hands
    4th Paladin 3 +3 +5 +1 +3 4: {+1} Diplomacy: 7; Know(Arcana): 4; {+1} Know(Dungeon): 3; Know(Local): 5; {+1} Know(Nature): 3; Know(Planes): 5; Know(Religion): 4; Perform(Sing): 3; {+1} Tumble: 5; UMD: 3; Aura of Freedom, Divine health
    5th Paladin 4 +4 +6 +1 +3 4: {+1} Diplomacy: 8; Know(Arcana): 4; Know(Dungeon): 3; Know(Local): 5; Know(Nature): 3; Know(Planes): 5; Know(Religion): 4; Perform(Sing): 3; Tumble: 5; {+1} UMD: 4; {+2} Collector of stories; Power attackHoly warrior Turn undead
    6th Duskblade 1 +5 +8 +1 +5 4: {+1} Diplomacy: 9; Know(Arcana): 4; {+1} Know(Dungeon): 4; Know(Local): 5; {+1} Know(Nature): 4; Know(Planes): 5; Know(Religion): 4; {+1} Perform(Sing): 4; Tumble: 5; UMD: 4; Collector of stories; Divine might Arcane attunement, Armored mage(light)
    7th Hellreaver 1 +6/+1 +8 +1 +7 4: {+1} Diplomacy: 10; {+1} Know(Arcana): 5; Know(Dungeon): 4; Know(Local): 5; Know(Nature): 4; Know(Planes): 5; Know(Religion): 4; {+1} Perform(Sing): 5; Tumble: 5; {+1} UMD: 5; Collector of stories; Holy fury, furious strike +2/+1d6
    8th Arcane duelist 1 +6/+1 +8 +3 +9 6: {+1} Diplomacy: 11; Know(Arcana): 5; {+1} Know(Dungeon): 5; {+1} Know(Local): 6; {+1} Know(Nature): 5; {+1} Know(Planes): 6; {+1} Know(Religion): 5; Perform(Sing): 5; Tumble: 5; UMD: 5; Collector of stories; Chosen weapon, Enchant chosen weapon +1
    9th Arcane duelist 2 +7/+2 +8 +4 +10 6: {+1} Diplomacy: 12; {+1} Know(Arcana): 6; {+1} Know(Dungeon): 6; Know(Local): 6; {+1} Know(Nature): 6; Know(Planes): 6; {+1} Know(Religion): 6; Perform(Sing): 5; Tumble: 5; {+1} UMD: 6; Collector of stories; Sapphire smite Apparent defense
    10th Arcane duelist 3 +7/+2 +9 +4 +10 6: {+1} Diplomacy: 13; {+1} Know(Arcana): 7; {+1} Know(Dungeon): 7; {+1} Know(Local): 7; Know(Nature): 6; {+1} Know(Planes): 7; {+1} Know(Religion): 7; Perform(Sing): 5; Tumble: 5; UMD: 6; Collector of stories; Dexterous attack
    11th Arcane duelist 4 +8/+3 +9 +5 +11 6: {+1} Diplomacy: 14; {+1} Know(Arcana): 8; {+1} Know(Dungeon): 8; {+1} Know(Local): 8; {+1} Know(Nature): 7; Know(Planes): 7; Know(Religion): 7; Perform(Sing): 5; Tumble: 5; {+1} UMD: 7; Collector of stories; Enchant chosen weapon +2
    12th Arcane duelist 5 +8/+3 +9 +5 +11 6: {+1} Diplomacy: 15; {+1} Know(Arcana): 9; Know(Dungeon): 8; {+1} Know(Local): 9; {+1} Know(Nature): 8; {+1} Know(Planes): 8; {+1} Know(Religion): 8; Perform(Sing): 5; Tumble: 5; UMD: 7; Collector of stories; Ancestral Relic Blur
    13th Arcane duelist 6 +9/+4 +10 +6 +12 6: {+1} Diplomacy: 16; Know(Arcana): 9; {+1} Know(Dungeon): 9; Know(Local): 9; {+1} Know(Nature): 9; {+1} Know(Planes): 9; {+1} Know(Religion): 9; Perform(Sing): 5; Tumble: 5; {+1} UMD: 8; Collector of stories; Enchant chosen weapon +3
    14th Arcane duelist 7 +9/+4 +10 +6 +12 6: {+1} Diplomacy: 17; {+1} Know(Arcana): 10; {+1} Know(Dungeon): 10; {+1} Know(Local): 10; Know(Nature): 9; {+1} Know(Planes): 10; {+1} Know(Religion): 10; Perform(Sing): 5; Tumble: 5; UMD: 8; Collector of stories; False keenness
    15th Arcane duelist 8 +10/+5 +10 +7 +13 6: {+1} Diplomacy: 18; {+1} Know(Arcana): 11; {+1} Know(Dungeon): 11; {+1} Know(Local): 11; {+1} Know(Nature): 10; Know(Planes): 10; Know(Religion): 10; Perform(Sing): 5; Tumble: 5; {+1} UMD: 9; Collector of stories; divine soultouch Enchant chosen weapon +4
    16th Arcane duelist 9 +10/+5 +11 +7 +13 6: {+1} Diplomacy: 19; {+1} Know(Arcana): 12; Know(Dungeon): 11; {+1} Know(Local): 12; {+1} Know(Nature): 11; {+1} Know(Planes): 11; {+1} Know(Religion): 11; Perform(Sing): 5; Tumble: 5; UMD: 9; Collector of stories; Mirror image
    17th Arcane duelist 10 +11/+6/+1 +11 +8 +14 6: {+1} Diplomacy: 20; Know(Arcana): 12; {+1} Know(Dungeon): 12; Know(Local): 12; {+1} Know(Nature): 12; {+1} Know(Planes): 12; {+1} Know(Religion): 12; Perform(Sing): 5; Tumble: 5; {+1} UMD: 10; Collector of stories; Flurry of swords
    18th Hellreaver 2 +12/+7/+2 +11 +8 +15 4: Diplomacy: 20; {+1} Know(Arcana): 13; {+1} Know(Dungeon): 13; {+1} Know(Local): 13; {+1} Know(Nature): 13; Know(Planes): 12; Know(Religion): 12; Perform(Sing): 5; Tumble: 5; UMD: 10; Collector of stories; Extra smiting Divine succor
    19th Hellreaver 3 +13/+8/+3 +12 +9 +15 4: Diplomacy: 20; Know(Arcana): 13; Know(Dungeon): 13; {+1} Know(Local): 14; {+1} Know(Nature): 14; {+1} Know(Planes): 13; {+1} Know(Religion): 13; Perform(Sing): 5; Tumble: 5; UMD: 10; Collector of stories; Divine resolve, divine shield
    20th Hellreaver 4 +14/+9/+4 +12 +9 +16 4: Diplomacy: 20; {+1} Know(Arcana): 14; {+1} Know(Dungeon): 14; Know(Local): 14; Know(Nature): 14; {+1} Know(Planes): 14; {+1} Know(Religion): 14; Perform(Sing): 5; Tumble: 5; UMD: 10; Collector of stories; Furious strike +4/+2d6m, Mettle

    Spoiler: Features recap index / spells table
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    "In the order they are presented in the leveling table"

    Azurin:MoI pg. 7 Race, basically human with one bonus essentia point instead of bonus skill point
    Essentia:MoI stuff that's basically floating "power points" you can invest into stuff, in our case two feats, whose capacity is roughly CHARLEVEL/5 (rounded up)
    Apprentice:DMG2 p. 176 1st level only feat, with selectable type of apprentice we are. with our choice the mechanical effects are : Use Magic Device (UMD) is a class skill for our first 5 levels, we have two bonus skill rank at 1st level ( spent in UMD), and when we gain a level in duskblade we gain a bonus spell known. one knowledge (dungeoneering) is also in class for our first 5 level but this is irrelevant due to able learner and duskblade having all knowledge in class. We used to get this with a flaw
    Midnight dodge:MoI p. 39 Basically like the core dodge, except the amount of dodge AC bonus is equal to the essentia we invest in this feat. counts as vanilla dodge for prerequisites. core dodge is a floating +1 dodge AC against one creature per round. Also gain 1 essentia
    Able learner:RoD p. 150 cross class ranks only cost 1 skill point, keep in mind the maximum rank is still dictated by a skill ever having been a class skill. So for example our limit for tumble/perform is 2 at first level
    Knowledge Devotion:CC p. 60 Identifying creatures give us an insight bonus to attack and damage rolls, we got this because CCp. 52 says domain can be traded for the equivalent devotion feat. It also makes one knowledge (local) in class for all our classes but this is becomes irrelevant with able learner, given that duskblade has all knowledge in class
    Cloistered: A cleric variant, in short : poor BAB, 6 skill points, d6 hit dice, bonus knowledge domain (traded for knowledge devotion), lore(ex) ability.
    Channel Incarnum:MoI pg. 43 Azurin racial substitution level for cleric, replaces turn undead. still count as turn undead for qualifying or fueling divine feats. 3+CHAMOD uses, free action gain temporary bonus essentia equal to CHAMOD or CLERICLEVEL/2, minimum 1 . the RSL also prevent us from casting LAW and EVIL spells
    Celestial Domain:BoED p. 86 domain power 1/day "smite evil" : untyped +4 to attack roll and untyped +CLERICLEVEL to damage roll for 1 attack against evil creature
    Destruction Domain: domain power 1/day "smite" : untyped +4 to attack roll and untyped +CLERICLEVEL to damage roll for 1 attack
    Lore: cloistered cleric ability equivalent to bardic knowledge, basically a int check +1 made to know random stuff
    Of Freedom: Paladin variant, basically CG paladin
    Aura of good: Ribbon "we register to detect good" feature
    Detect Evil: SLA as the same spell, at will
    Smite Evil: 1/day untyped +CHAMOD to attack roll and +PALADINLEVEL to damage roll for one attack against evil creature
    Holy Warrior:CC p. 49 forfeits paladin casting (including using wands/scrolls without UMD) in exchange for bonus feat at 4th level
    Skilled city dweller: trades ride as in class for tumble as in class. We don't really need it anymore but deleting content is a sin!
    Harmonious knight: Milil specific paladin substitution level, exchanges detect evil for inspire courage +1, the SBL we aren't taking anymore
    Divine grace: untyped +CHAMOD to all saves
    Lay on hands: CHAMOD*PALADINLEVEL healing pool
    Aura of resolve: "of freedom" paladin feature, like aura of courage but applies to compulsion effects. we're immune to compulsion and allies within 10ft have a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against compulsion effects
    Divine health: Immunity to all diseases
    Power Attack: take a malus to attack rolls for a bonus to damage rolls, up to BAB, -1 for +2 with two handed weapons
    Turn undead: 3+CHAMOD/day, Make undead quake in their bones, or straight up destroy
    Duskblade:PHB2 p. 19 a base class with full BAB and spontaneous int-based arcane spellcasting
    Divine might:CW p. 106 Free action spend one turn/channel incarnum attempt to gain untyped +CHAMOD to weapon damage for 1 round
    Arcane attunement: SLA basket of 3+INTMOD/day uses of any combination of dancing lights, detect magic, flare, ghost sound, and read magic
    Armored Mage(light): No arcane casting failure in light armor or while using light shields
    Hellreaver:FCII p. 92 Prestige class whose concept is being angry at evil
    Holy fury: free action 1/encounter, for the duration of the encounter, melee attacks are good-aligned, we are immune to fear, and we have CLASSLEVEL+CHAMOD fury points to spend for activating other class features
    Furious Strike: swift action spend 1 fury point, next attack gains untyped +2 to attack roll and + 1d6 to damage roll, if made against evil creature. becomes +4/+2d6 at 4th CLASSLEVEL
    Arcane Duelist: a sucky prestige class with an amazing capstone :)
    Chosen weapon: limits other class features to work only with a single weapon we choose and can change
    Enchant chosen weapon: While we wield the chosen weapon, it behaves as if it's enhancement bonus was 1/2/3/4 higher
    Sapphire smite:MoI p. 40 gain extra use of smite equal to invested essentia, and smite deals untyped bonus damage equal to invested essentia. this "triple dips" since we got three separate smite abilities. Also gain 1 essentia
    Apparent defense: Add CHAMOD to our "dexterity mod to AC"
    Dexterous attack: can take a malus to the damage roll for a untyped bonus to the attack roll, up to BAB. Damage malus not multiplied on a crit
    Ancestral relic:BoED p. 39 a versatile way to be guaranteed you have exactly the item you care the most about
    Blur:CLASSLEVEL/day SLA at CLASSLEVEL CL of the spell of the same name (20% concealment for minutes/CL)
    False Keenness: CLASSLEVEL/day take a malus equal to the critical threat range to the attack bonus, to double the critical threat range, stackable with keen/improved critical. last 1 round, if combined with dexterous attack the damage malus is multiplied on the crit
    Divine soultouch:MoI p. 37 free action spend 1 turn attempt to gain 1 temporary essentia and increase essentia capacity by 1. this basically means 3 more smite, 1 more smite damage and 2 dodge AC at the cost of 2 turn attempts
    Mirror image: CLASSLEVEL/day SLA at CLASSLEVEL CL of the spell of the same name (1d4+3 illusory duplicates)
    Flurry of swords: a bit too long to recap, read upthread, but in short "any damage that isn't multiplied on a crit" is multiplied by 1d4+3 when this is activated, and you make an extra attack to boot, and have a separate pool of mirror images
    Extra smiting:CW p. 98 2 more smite, each
    Divine succor: swift action use 1 fury point to heal 10 damage to self or another good creature within 20ft
    Divine resolve: immediate action use 1 fury point to gain untyped +2 to your next save, can be used after the roll but before knowing the result
    Divine shield: immediate action use 1 fury point to gain untyped +2 AC against a single attack, can can be used after the roll but before knowing the result. I suppose the GM will have to say "I rolled a 19" instead of "does a 49 hits?"
    Mettle: things that are partially resisted with a fortitude/will save are instead negated completely on a successfull save
    EW: shorthand for "eternal wand", but what I mean is "custom slotless command word wondrous item"
    Spells:
    As a duskblade, we are spontaneous, know 2 spells and have 3 slots. Our spell known shall be True strike and magic weapon. Also all our cantrips but those are rarely cared for.

    As cleric, we are too foolish to be able to cast, until we're of a high enough level to afford either a peripat of wisdom +4 or a +4 tome of understanding, depending on how your GM rolls about "temporary ability score bonuses don't allow spellcasting". when we get to that, spell prepared will likely be 2xConvictionSpC. 10 minutes of +2 morale bonus to all saves and domain slot vision of heavenBoED, evil creature save or dazed which we might decide to convert to Twilight luckBoED, 1minute +1 luck bonus to all saves

    Baseline the three spells I care about to eventually get an EW of are : One charge/day Greater luminous armorBoED at CL 16, One charge/day Greater mighty whallopRotD at CL 16, and two charge/day lesser restoration at minimum caster level.
    These will cost respectively 100+4*16*1800/5 = 23140gp, 100+3*16*1800/5=17380gp and 100+2*3*1800/5*2=7300gp.

    Spoiler: Of stick and stones (ancestral relic)
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    So, we got a heirloom masterwork quarterstaff... neat, but let's read the feat carefully. I'll wait here.

    Well, it seems what this is intended to be is making a cool story about having a weapon that grows in power alongside you, basically Weapon of legacy but made better because there aren't fiddly bits about taking stupid maluses, SO, What I will present as a baseline is the "weapon only, no shenanigans", and get on the shenanigans later, because this is an optimization contest and this stupid feat tickled me silly.

    I'll start with only the "weapon" part.
    at 14th level, which JUST SO HAPPEN to be when we get false keenness, we go beg the gm pray for a couple months and finally be rewarded with a Staff of raptureBoED!
    This is the stick we're doing the whole shtick about sticks for. Yes, it's a staff, I know, but it has a "+1 quarterstaff" profile so clearly it can be used as a weapon, so it fits "no question asked" the alleged RAI of the feat, we're peachy. So far so good, amusingly if you want to be scowled at you can try to see if your GM accept the argument that the critical profile is "20/x2" and so combining false keenness and dexterous attack incurs only a malus of 1 to the attack roll, that's the "normal threat range" of the weapon at hand after all! Because we wouldn't be munchkin if we didn't try to got a threat range of 8 but paying only 1 of malus!

    at 15th level, the ancestral relic budget is such that we can put two +1 qualities on it, or one +2 quality, a +1 shall be ImpactMIC, keen for blunts enh up to +2 and the other +1 shall be evil outsider bane.
    Now, here's the first little bit of sillyness with ancestral relic. Here's an hypothetical question for you : what's the cost difference between a +1 evil outsider bane longsword and a +1 dragon bane longsword? If you guessed "0", have a cookie! So... how long do we have to pray to change the bane to whatever we are expecting of fightning tomorrow? I will take the side of caution and say "minimum 1 day of praying, because willy nilly changing the bane contextually with whatever we are fightning in that moment is... a bit too milk flavoured", but changing it whenever we have a tiny bit of downtime seems fairly reasonable to me.
    But anyway, storywise it's an evil outsider bane, because that's we're paladin/hellreaver, so d'uh
    Again, yadda yadda about "it's actual normal threat range is 19-20, so false keenness is only a 2 malus on the attack roll", Enjoy critfishing those pesky evils with a 9-20/x2 !

    at 16th level, ancestral relic budget is enough to bring it to "rapture +5" equivalent, we were at +2 evil outsider bane. let's add (+1)Mighty smitingMIC, +2 to attack and damage of all our smites,and +1 smite and (+1) EnfeeblingBoED, on crit deal 1d6+2 temporary strength damage. We are critfishing on evils, makes perfect sense to me to put a burst something!
    mighty smiting is interesting, because the wording gives a bit of justification/precedence that sapphire smite does apply to multiple different smites.

    at 17th level, budget affords us +6 and still have leftover, so let's add Heavenly burstMIC, it's another burst effect, this one for 3d6 damage and a blind with save, but it works only against evil target, which is a nonissue given our.

    at 18th level, ancestral relic budget is a stupid 220000 and our "+6 equivalent staff of rapture" is priced at 143800, so we got like another 76200 if we fancy putting some of those properties that costs "just gold" and not "enhancement bonus". Magic item compendium has a bunch of those, and many are even "burst" effect which make them be a nice synergy with our critfishing stick. They even work on crit immune enemies

    Prismatic burst, 30000 gp. on crit, target get a prismatic spray to the face (DC20).
    Slow burst, 5000 gp. on crit DC 14 slow effect
    vanishing, 8000 gp. 1/day free action dimension door after a successfull attack.

    Ancestral relic budget at level 19 and 20 are absurdly big, and I feel it's a bit bleh looking for every possible weapon property you can add for a flat cost and not "+1 equivalent", but something you might want to do is bring the actual enhancement bonus to +3, in case your GM says that Arcane duelist "enchant weapon" does not qualify the weapon to use greater augment crystals. that's another 56000 gp down the drain. Get a (greater)Demolition and (greater) truedeath crystal and (greater) fiendslayer crystal (all from MIC). Get a wand of vinestrike for plants. that only leaves elemental and oozes as the noncrittable critters

    Spoiler: non core sources
    Show
    BoED: Book of Exalted Deeds
    CC : Complete Champion
    CW : Complete Warrior
    DMG2: Dungeon's Master guide II
    FCI: Fiendish Codex II
    MIC: Magic Item Compendium
    MoI: Magic of Incarnum
    PHB2: Player's Handbook II
    RoD: Races of Destiny
    RotD: Races of the Dragon
    SpC: Spell Compendium

    Spoiler: build history
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    Short thought process on how this build evolved : "It would be very funny if we used an oversized rapier"--> some faffing about with monkey grip and a huge-rapier, while taking jotunbrud despite it mechanically not giving us anything usable, and going ancestral relic to "cleverly bypass" the specific item reliance.
    "Oh, paladin earth hammer spell LOL, let's use that"
    "Uh, it's bludgeon now, MIGHTY WALLOP!"
    "Uh, if I use a quarterstaff or club, I can simply shillelag, but that doesn't work with the arcane duelist features"
    "wait a minute, they don't actually say we can't use it with a blunt weapon!"
    *some feeling of smartness about shillelagh only working with nonmagical stuff, so having sinergy with enchant weapon*
    --- some staff related research later --- that staff have a WHAT critical profile!?
    *gung oh in the "me hate evil" theme*

    Mechanical build history.
    Early iteration was paladin 2/hexblade 4/arcane duelist 10 /uncanny trickster 3 / something 1, to have 12 effective levels of arcane duelist for 2 more uses of the stuff and one more sword image, and was monkey grip/ strongarm bracers a huge rapier. The reason was to get "cha to everything", with little forethought
    I dropped hexblade fairly early because I missed the "nongood" alignment restriction, and I really don't like messing around with changing alignment.
    I latched hard on (harmonious knight) paladin because it's like, the only choice of full BAB with perform base class. It's either that or battledancer, and I really didn't want to go battledancer, too obvious, no thank you.
    Incarnum came about because I was thinking "I got mettle, let's get evasion, that's 2 feats for impulse boots, but then I can get 2 essence from bonus essence, sapphire smite is rather good" at that point, I wen't "uh" about the azurin cleric ACF, and went full bore with incarnum feats.

    it was something like paladin 2 / cleric (of milil, charm domain, knowledge devotion) 4/ duskblade 1 / arcane duelist 10 / cleric 7 with midnight dodge+cobalt power+ azure touch + sapphire smite + divine soultouch. The reasoning was pretty simple, channel incarnum+divine soultouch means for 2 turn attempts I had a massive 4 temporary essence to invest, meaning all those feats were effectively at "5 essence invested", and divine power obviated the poor BAB, making dexterous and false keenness very sweet. At that point I was even considering vow of poverty, to get full giggles on using a nonmagical quarterstaff, before I remembered myself.

    I dropped cobalt power when I noticed it is an insight bonus, and thus doesn't stack with knowledge devotion :(, around then I was something like paladin 5/duskblade1/arcane duelist 10 / cleric 1 / uncanny trickster 3, dropping cobalt power but keeping azure touch, because I was trading the special mount for that divine spirit that heals twice the value of lay on hand, making azure touch value "essence invested*CHAMOD*3". I kept tethering between cleric 1/ uncanny trickster 3 or straight cleric 4.

    feat at this point were able learner/midnight dodge/azure touch/power attack/mobility/ sapphire smite/ divine soultouch / ancestral relic / knowledge devotion and an undecided 18th level feat, because nothing was striking my fancy. but then it was love at first sight with divine might, since we had the prerequisite anyway, we have two pools of turning. AND IT GETS MULTIPLIED ON A CRIT AND THE MIRROR IMAGES GET THE DIVINE MIGHT DAMAGE; HAPPYNESS!

    I just didn't like uncanny trickster very much, a bunch of random skill tricks is very much not my conception of a fun character, so I was looking for alternatives, maybe something with mobility with prerequisites... but ughhhh they're almost all TWF classes that clash with the duelist "one weapon" style.
    So I looked for classes with power attack... and serendpity, hello Hellreaver! Easy prerequisites!, another untyped bonus to attack that I can use on every encounter (with evil) and it reinforces the "I smite evil" theme I had going with the staff of rapture anyway, this is just perfect! paladin 5/duskblade 1/arcane duelist 10 / cleric 1 / hellreaver 3, yup!
    But, but, mettle, but I don't want to remove that cleric level, what am I to do *sniff sob*
    IT ONLY ASK FOR BAB 5 I CAN SHAVE OF A PALADIN LEVEL
    *whew*. This made me drop azure touch however, because I wasn't getting "triple the benefit" from it anymore without divine spirit ACF.

    that was the iteration for a bit, paladin 4/duskblade 1/hellreaver 1 /arcane duelist 10 / cleric 1 / hellreaver 4 no flaw and only able learner for "let's make full use of the skill points"

    But I wasn't liking how I had to stay at half max rank in UMD, since it wasn't in class for anything anymore, so I introduced apprentice spellcaster, but that delayed the "payday" of divine might and ancestral relic... so I tried without able learner for a while, biting the bullet about spending crossclass ranks to keep the knowledges up but at least I had UMD in class, except it stops being in class at 6th level, UGH, so between being inelegant because of A LOT of cross class skill points I decided to just go for it with the flaw, delaying the whole feats is the worst and inelegant for inelegant this way at least I have THE POWER!

    The last two revision was dropping being a cleric "of Milil" with charm domain and knowledge devotion, instead going for generic cloistered cleric "of smiting".

    But I didn't like how "jarring" it was having a cloistered cleric level up there at seventeen. Despite a little blurb trying to justify it (We are briefly aimless in our personal growth, so we turn back to religion. Alas, One cannot go back on being a paladin after having abandoned their ways, even if it was an honorable discharge. So we turn to the church for guidance. After a brief stint at the seminary ( cleric level) we get the guidance we so seeked : Go and make trouble for them evil outsiders! (last few hellreaver levels)). It's kinda off putting having this late a cleric, NOT of Milil, after having had levels as a harmonious knight paladin.

    So, after much thought, I decided cleric could well be the first level :). Because:
    • A bunch more skill points to spend on stuff!
    • twice the daily uses of divine might from much much earlier
    • knowledge devotion bonuses for most of our life
    • much earlier worry-free access to cleric wands
    • earlier paycheck on the sapphire smite

    I'm a bit sad about delaying arcane duelist by one level, but the build is much more solid overall like this, so that's that.

    the very last iteration was removing the flaw giving us apprentice(spellcaster) for in class UMD, I don't like flaw, and I realized we don't actually need all that much UMD to use wands, it's only DC 20!

    some contenders for that last feat : travel devotionCC, sadly it competes with holy fury for the swift action
    avenging strikeTome of Battle : this is another "smite", but doesn't have "smite" in the name so it requires a very favorable interpretation to get it to benefit from sapphire smite, plus it's much more limited to outsiders with evil subtype, rather than the more generic "evil"
    shape soulmeld and/or open X chakra: there is a bunch of possibilities, and it would give us another place to use essentia. top of my mind is that soulmeld that gives +5 to UMD among other things, but it's just a bit late for this kind of "fix", by now we hit the (noncleric) wand DC of 20 fairly easily. if we even need that (EWs use wondrous items pricing, and thus can be argued to not need UMD, but just knowning the command word)
    martial study+martial stance from ToB . specifically something to qualify for blood in the water, and then blood in the water stance. it's untyped, stackable +1 to attack and damage for 1 minute whenever we score a critical hit. this is awesome and if the GM ruled the source of attacks from the clones is still us, it has dastardly high potential! I was very very tempted. In the end I decided against it because
    • maybe too strong, we're already a bit on somewhat shaky grounds with ancestral relic, let's not add "our attack and damage increases by X each round"
    • we have a somewhat clear theme going with being a divinely-empowered smacker, such a late pivot into wuxia is a bit jarring
    • bonus attack and damage falls a bit on the sideway when our "win condition" is enfeebling people down to 0 STR, like we can deal as much nonlethal damage we want, that won't be what we kill enemies with in these late levels
    • ramp up time, extra smites is instant gratification of more times a day where we have +6-21 on attack rolls, albeit on singular attacks (times clones!), blood in the water starts at 0 and we all know the first few rounds are the most critical (ha)

    Like, we have a 40% (against evil, 10% against nonevil, but let's be real majority of campaigns are of heroes, the enemies that matter will be evil) chance of doing 1d6+2 str damage with each attack, and with minimum clones we do 10 such attacks at ~+33 in a round, plus 10 lower iteratives. let's pretend iteratives always miss, that's still 1-(0.6^10) chance we crit at least once : 99.395%, but even "at least 2 crits" is at above 95% chance, "At least 3 crits" is 83%, 60% of 4+

    Yes, I'm making the assumption we confirm the critical even if we rolled 9, why? because dexterous attack without power attack is a very solid, hell if you're worried about it throw an EW of divine power in it. boom "12" more BAB

    Yes, power attack and divine might lose value when we get high level, but so what? they did their duty at making us useful at these earlier levels before critfishing got online. In a real table I'd probably try to have divine might retrained, but that's not allowed here, so that's that.

    Spoiler: story/tactics
    Show
    The early days (1-5)
    We are an orphan (I bet you never heard this before as far as character backgrounds go!) living in a church orphanage, struggling to fit in with the musty feel of these bookish cleric, what with our destructive tendencies. We got a.. "mentor" figure on the side which is a "famous" arcane duelist, but mostly we have hero worship for him because of his motto of "booze and wenches!". To his dismay, and that of the clerics, we are easily distracted, and so it will take a while for us to actually learn stuff from him.
    Along the way, we got drawn in by the carousing way of the followers of Milil those strange dudes that says they are paladins of freedom?!?!? (confused teen noises here). These people seems to live to get drunk, and our young self digs that very much! He got roped in joining the fraternity somehow, so there we are. (Personally I get a kick out of imagining those paladins being some kind of MLM)

    Mechanically, Inspire courage+ knowledge devotion should put us "not too far" from shocktrooping barbarians, if the point of comparison we want to take is "martials that go for power attack". We pay our madness, but we're "only" 1 BAB and 10 STR behind a straight raging barb 5 that's preparing for shocktrooper, assuming they start with a STR of 20 and take extra rage, their smack profile (masterwork weapon) is +13 for (weapon die) + 10 , and then apply power attack to that.
    Our poor MAD bumbum is at +7 for (weapon die) +3, and with (3-5)ranks+5collector+2INT the knowledge devotion split is 20% +1 / 50% +2 /25% +3 /5%+4 for those with 4 ranks, let's say it's "at least +2" on average, and we're at +9 for die+5 damage.
    But unlike a barbarian, we can whip out cleric wands! and help with knowledges :)) . And, of course, 3 smite a day for that juicy +3/+4 on the attack roll when it's cinch making a power attack land, they can even all be used together if you fancy doing "that one attack" at an extra +11 to hit and +6 damage, plus full power attack because why woulnd't you when you're putting out a +18 at 5th level after taking -4 for power attack, yeah? that's a big SMACK!

    We took his prized "absolutely normal quarterstaff" as a memento, half in remembrance and half to recicle the joke of "paladin" and "stick up the derriere". We shall never know why this (masterwork) quarterstaff was so loved by our master.

    Mechanically, we're a paladin with a stick(quarterstaff), but of course we will be using a more appropriate two handed weapon, since we have all those juicy profiencies. Pick your poison it is a placeholder weapon anyway, let's say a greatsword because 2d6 food for dexterous. And much better saves, because d'uh! By the grace of the gods :)

    Carousing about (6-17)
    After having had our due revenge on the devils/demons that slew our master (entry to hellreaver). We decided the proper way of honoring his memory was following in his footstep of a "jovial if unusual" tavern brawler/duelist ( duskblade into arcane duelist)
    Along the way, we became both better in touch with our own soul and spirit(sapphire smite / divine might)

    6-10 With our low STR bonus, both furious strike (1+CHA/encounter, unless we're fightning neutrals I guess) and dexterous attack go a good way into making sure we actually hit our target. Supposedly we can use our knowledges to intuit what AC whatever we're smacking around has, and so tailor a perfect balance between power attack and dexterous attack. In practice, there's a 95% chance the insight bonus is at least +2, we'll probably always take the max bonus/malus with dexterous attack, and then adjust power attack to our taste. So, baseline with no power attack and at least a +2 to STR, CHA, CON and maybe DEX, we're looking at (greatsword) +20/+15 for 2d6,
    but that becomes +22/+17 for 3d6 5/encounter with furious strike, then we go to daily resources such as
    12/day of + 4 damage for 1 round with divine might
    3+3+3 smite/day of +4 attack and +3-7 damage. 2 is the essentia capacity for feat at this level, and we got 3 essentia plus channel incarnum for bonus essentia, so both sapphire smite and midnight dodge are at capacity.
    if we don't nova, stacking the 3 smites on a single attack, that's 3/day of +34/+29 of 3d6+17, to which I say we can comfortably apply full power attack for +27/+22 of 3d6+31.
    We're also supposedly fairly more survivable than a more traditional ubercharger, napkin math saves are 17/12/14 ( divine grace 4 and resistance 1) and AC is circa 23 (10+4 armor + 4 charisma +3 dex + 1 deflection +1 natural, +2 dodge, eh) Note that unlike monk or battledancer, Apparent defense does NOT require that we don't wear armor, so we don't "need" luminous armor, we can make do with mundane, actual armor, profile given is with a chainshirt which is far from the best we can wear, hell let's even put a buckler on, why not.
    And the utility of cleric wands :)

    Eventually, we managed to form a proper bond with "The paladin stick", which to the surprise of no one turns out to not be a simple stick at all!

    12th level is a watershed moment : we awaken our quarterstaff! Ancestral relic is weird, the only example provided is a weapon, but the only factual limitations of the feat is the market price of "what it will become" and "paying the difference between your relic now and your relic after praying the appropriate amount of time"
    So... we have carte blanche of "make your own item", so long that we respect the strictures of the market price said relic would have.
    Well, let's see. I'm going to say it's a command word ("I WALLOP THEE!") slotless wondrous item of "greater mighty wallop at caster level 16" with 1charge/day. that comes out as costing 34560.
    So, once per day, we can make our wondrous quartestaffa blunt weapon count as colossal for 16 hours, juicy!

    So, let's use our awesome stick to make another, different stick, which shall be our chosen weapon for a little while, THE BIGGEREST STICK.

    let's UMD a wand of shillelagh after that, and boom, the stick is 8d6!

    But we stop having fun with the 8d6 stick at the 14th level, because as delineated on it's own section, the starstick of the show is here, Staff of rapture!

    So what are we looking like at 17th level when we finally get the juicy capstone we did all this for? Blur and mirror image are solid defensive SLA to have, false keenness has some minor cleverness going when used with a weapon that has two separate threat ranges, and I will sing the praises of flurry of sticks. We got a high threat weapon with a bunch of "burst", chief among them strength damage. let's pretend we're really unlucky and always roll 1 on the flurry clones amount... that means 4 clones, that's 4 times as many attacks in that round, and if we smite, given the criteria is "if it's multiplied on a crit, the clones get it", that's applied to the clones too! I now all too well that smite is on one attack only, and so not every attack in a full attack will get it, but that's still getting 5 times the value out of each smite, and 5 times knowledge devotion, and 5 times furious strike, and 5 times as many chances of critting, unloading a plethora of burst effects!

    And we definetively have the oomph modifiers on the attack roll to make those crit happens!

    Divine soultouch+channel incarnum means that we can have two bonus essentia and increase the essentia capacity to 5, with our native 3 essentia, this is pushing sapphire smite to 5 essentia, and midnight dodge at 2 essentia, at the cost of 2 turn and 2 channel uses.

    Onward to gloryhell (17-20)
    Having reached the pinnacle of the way of "the bonking with many hands", we feel we have reached hte limit of potential for what we remembered of our mentor, and so it's time to clean house a bit with those pesky devil/demons/whathaveyou

    Well these are post-SI levels and therefore filler, what do you want me to say about them? mettle is nice, divine succor is nice, the other two features are "meh" because they all compete with furious strike for the swift action. I feel we are comfortable in the land of martials. We do respectable nonlethal damage, and crippling strength damage when we crit, on top of the hilarity of prismatic burst. We're the rainbow that keeps on giving!

    Spoiler: Possible controversies
    Show
    Possible controversy : Ancestral relic is very similar to item familiar! With it you do shenanigans that breaks the WBL!!, you can make do exactly what you want without taking crafting feats and paying xp!.
    Very fair, it's a doubt I had myself, have a quote:
    Quote Originally Posted by The Viscount
    Quote Originally Posted by Cook
    Hello Viscount.

    Is Ancestral relic from BoED banned from IC in a similar way that item familiar is?

    I'm tinkering with it for my current idea and the more I tinker with it the more ridiculous it's feeling in scope and power. So before I work on the build even more, I wanted to hear the chairman opinion on it
    Ancestral relic is legal. (feel free to cite this)
    Have fun!
    Can a 1st level cleric trade knowledge domain for knowledge devotion? on the one hand, you aren't taking a bonus feat, you are using an alternate class feature. On the other hand, knowledge devotion requires 5 ranks in a knowledge skill.
    Sure, we could argue that collectively, we have more than 5 ranks in knowledge, but that's splitting air. If your GM is adamant you can't, consider taking duskblade as your first level, and cleric as your second level. this way you will be perfectly legal, at the cost of 16 skill ranks, I suggest removing two ranks from speak languages, two ranks from each knowledge skill, and two rank from UMD. This is simply because you can have exactly the same numbers by acquiring a masterwork tool anyway

    You aren't worshipping anyone! That is correct, we aren't in Faerun anymore, we don't have to follow any one deity! This used to be controversial because harmonious knight required worship of Milil, which does not have those juicy domains with spicy smites. Still, do hear your GM if you can adapt that ACF to her campaign!

    Temporary essentia and incarnum feats : This is sadly not clarified, do we still gain the benefit of bonus essentia that we invested in an incarnum feat, after said bonus essentia "disappeared" one round later?
    Ordinarily, for other essentia-related feature, this is a easy question, because assigning essentia is a swift action and it's meant to be "moved around", so the use-case for temporary essentia is using a swift action to invest it in a soulmeld or item, have the benefit for one round, and that's it.
    But the incarnum feats are weird, since you can only invest essentia once per day, and then they are worded about having a benefit based on the essentia invested.
    So, we are here at 20th level with 3 essentia and two free-action features that give us temporary essentia and increases the capacity by 1 ( to 5). At the beginning of the day we invest 5 essentia in sapphire smite with a swift action, so far so good. What happens during the rest of the day when 2 of those essentia "disappear"? the essentia we "invested" was 5, does it matter that the currently invested essentia is 3? if your GM rules that they go away, consider taking bonus essentia or any other incarnum feat that gives one essentia point instead of divine soultouch at 15th level, because divine soultouch "does nothing" within the scope of our build if temporary essentia are useless for incarnum feats. That way at least you get the 4th essentia point you want for investing into sapphire smite, you may also consider a second extra smite, since you gain "triple the worth" from that one too. I went for divine soultouch because it allows us to be at 5 essentia on sapphire smite and 2 essentia on midnight dodge, making us actually use this prereq at "twice the value".

    Speaking of, a possible controversy is "does sapphire smite/extra smite grant extra use of each kind of smite we have?" Unlike extra turning, it doesn't says it does, so that's up to GM interpretation. I say they do because they have the wording "whatever smite ability you have", which I translate as "smite evil get the +2, destruction smite get the +2, celestial smite get the +2", or simplified "if it's a smite, ti has extra uses".
    Corroborating evidence is the mighty smiting weapon property, that specifically calls out "if you have more than one ability to smite, you must chose which one gains an extra use" (I chose the paladin one).

    If the GM says you don't get extra smites for each kind of smite you have, I guess go ahead and get martial stance(blood in the water) in place of sapphire/extra smite, and also go back to being a worshipper of Milil for the sweet inspire courage :)

    While I'm at it, stupid optimization trick : obtain 50 shurikens of mighty smiting, enjoy 50 more smite per day at the cheap cost of 166gp each!. You only need to wield the shuriken, don't need ot use the smite with it after all!

    Item reliance: I know, I listed the statblock with enhancement bonuses (let's say from a belt of magnificence form Miniature handbook for simplicity) and inherent bonuses from manual/tomes/wishes. Plus the other "boring numerical items" like resistance and deflection etcetera. This is primarily to make math easier, because these are the "generic useful items" assumed when we purposelly leave "items" blank. I didn't list other useful "mandatory" items like anklet of transposition or scout headband or belt of battle. Actually I included a monk belt bonus, but that's still core. But I also listed custom made wondrous items, and you would rightly ask me "where did you get that? you can't craft it yourself" and.. that's partially true. I'm leaving this here, at the very end of the entry, because it's stupid TO and has nothing to do with arcane duelist. It's in fact a trick that's 100% build agnostic, and I'm leaving it outside the story/tactics because I don't really want it to be counted as part of the power of the build. I stood within the limits of WBL and I didn't do shenanigans with inherent bonuses to intelligence during the build ( tho I would really like to have 6 more skill points to round out the knowledge at a multiple of 5!). I'm respecting the unspoken gentlebeing agreement here.
    Because, if you insist asking me why I am so sure I will have the items I nominate? Ancestral relic gives us infinite wishes. Open your planar handbook at page 82, behold the staff of planes, juicy 43100 for sixteen gates. At 12th level when we get Ancestral relic it's budget is 44000, so... As said, I took Ancestral relic because I want to play around with the staff of rapture, and bonk people with it alongside my mirror images. I don't pull infinite wishes on you, because it has nothing to do with arcane duelist, and you accept I will have the meager gear I said I have, pretty please? (with sugar on top!)

    Last minute afterword: without impact, we might want to obtain wands of heroicsSC, to get improved critical
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  24. - Top - End - #84
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Dec 2012

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXIX

    Sek and violence in one post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sek
    Sek
    "My sword is the only friend I need because it can make yours disappear”



    TN Warforged Artificer8/Duskblade1/Arcane Duelist10/Warblade1

    Spoiler: Overview
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    Spoiler: Feat Summary
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    Alignment : True Neutral
    Race : Warforged
    Level 1 : Shape Soulmeld (Mage’s Spectacles)
    Level 3 : Midnight Dodge
    Level 6 : Mobility
    Level 9 : Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Scorpion-tail Whip)
    Level 12 : Power Attack
    Level 15 : Martial Study (Rabid Wolf Strike)
    Level 18 : Resounding Blow


    Spoiler: Point Buy
    Show

    Warforged +2 Con, -2 Wis & Cha
    Point Buy at level 20
    (4 in Str, 8, 12, 16, 20 in Int)
    STR 14
    DEX 13
    CON 16
    INT 18
    WIS 6
    CHA 14



    Spoiler: The Story
    Show

    Art is a shortcut to one’s soul
    And no matter how atypical
    One’s aspiration to …


    Sek crumbled his parchment back into his pocket when he heard the footsteps from the Staff Sergeant coming down the corridor. His fellow comrades were all resting.
    His platoon was one of the weirdest in the King’s Army, entirely composed of Warforged soldiers, each with their own specialty, and the human instructors were doing their best to harmonize all of this.

    Sek had a knack for words and poetry but that was frowned upon among the military.

    “Ain’t nobody got time for that” as his Sergeant savantly put it.

    His crafting skills were of much use to his comrades since he was among the few that could actually repair his comrades in between battles.
    Taking this into consideration along with the fact that a few well-crafted lines occasionally brought some life to the tasteless military life that his platoon was condemned to lead, his superiors decided to look the other way.
    Therefore, Sek has spent his free time crafting comedy plays and songs with the occasional performance (even though, let’s be honest, he wasn’t a natural) to entertain his peers.


    “I remember the puny lumps of flesh stabbing me in the back then it all faded to black…You’re the first thing I saw since that fight and that’s a good sight to gaze upon comrade !”

    This is when Sek and Otis became inseparable. The robromance lasted for a while, one was taking special care of the other every time he got damaged while the latter taught the former the ways of the sword, until one day Otis didn’t come back from the field.

    The gap that his friend’s loss created in Sek’s life was incommensurable and he applied himself to try and fill it in as much as he could by imbuing a semblance of consciousness into his craft. After relentless months of crafting, Sek felt joy for the first time in months since his friend passed away : he managed to successfully give sentience to his own weapon. He then cherished this weapon of his like no other and learned to display its prowess over time.
    His creation went beyond Sek’s wildest dreams since he managed to achieve a confounding likeliness to Otis’ personality ; in no time, he had another close friend he could talk to.

    Having regained his taste for life, his drama plays became once more comedies and his renewed confidence gave him a knack for the theater.
    But the new Otis’ being a clone of the old one’s, saw his eagerness for battle grow, and gradually influenced Sek’s behavior, pushing him to finally ask his Chief Sergeant if he could partake in the battles.

    His craft made him a lethal soldier who rose through the ranks and soon, songs were sung about Sek’s achievements in the battlefield, His weapon was viewed by many as an artifact sent down by the gods to reward this worthy warrior in the legends. Some even pretended they saw him split into dozens of images to take down a single foe in a flurry of blows !


    Spoiler: Tables
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    Spoiler: Build
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    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Reflex Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st Warforged Artificer 1 0 0 0 2 Craft (Blacksmithing) (+4) 4; Intimidate (+4 CC) 2; Perform (Act) (+4 CC) 2; Tumble (+4 CC) 2; Spellcraft (+4) 4; UMD (+4) 4; Shape Soulmeld (Mage's Spectacles), Scribe Scroll (Artificer Bonus) Artificer Knowledge, Artisan Bonus, Infuse Self, Disable Trap, Item Creation
    2nd Duskblade 1 1 2 0 4 Craft (Blacksmithing) (+1) 5; Intimidate 2; Perform (Act) 2; Tumble (+3) 5; Spellcraft 4; UMD 4; Arcane Attunement, Armored Mage (Light), Skilled City-Dweller ACF
    3rd Artificer 2 2 2 0 5 Craft (Blacksmithing) (+1) 6; Intimidate 2; Perform (Act) (+1 CC) 2.5; Tumble 5; Spellcraft (+2) 6; UMD (+2) 6; Brew Potion (Artificer Bonus)
    4th Artificer 3 3 3 1 5 Craft (Blacksmithing) (+1) 7; Intimidate 2; Perform (Act) (+2 CC) 3.5; Tumble (+1 CC) 5.5; Spellcraft (+1) 7; UMD (+1) 7; Midnight Dodge, Craft Wondrous Item (Artificer Bonus)
    5th Warforged Artificer 4 4 3 1 6 Craft (Blacksmithing) (+1) 8; Intimidate 2; Perform (Act) (+1 CC) 4; Tumble (+2 CC) 6.5; Spellcraft (+1) 8; UMD (+1) 8; Extend Spell (Artificer Bonus) Tools of War, Bonus Feat
    6th Warforged Artificer 5 4 3 1 6 Craft (Blacksmithing) (+1) 9; Intimidate 2; Perform (Act) (+1 CC) 4.5; Tumble (+2 CC) 7.5; Spellcraft (+1) 9; UMD (+1) 9; Mobility, Craft Magic Arms and Armor (Artificer Bonus) Craft Weapon Familiar
    7th Artificer 6 5 4 2 7 Craft (Blacksmithing) (+1) 10; Intimidate 2; Perform (Act) (+1 CC) 5; Tumble (+2 CC) 8.5; Spellcraft (+1) 10; UMD (+1) 10; Craft Wand (Artificer Bonus)
    8th Artificer 7 6 4 2 7 Craft (Blacksmithing) (+1) 11; Intimidate 2; Perform (Act) (+1 CC) 5.5; Tumble (+2 CC) 9.5; Spellcraft (+1) 11; UMD (+1) 11; Metamagic Spell Trigger
    9th Arcane Duelist 1 6 4 4 9 Craft (Blacksmithing) 11; Intimidate 2; Perform (Act) (+1) 6.5; Tumble (+2) 11.5; Spellcraft (+1) 12; UMD (+2 CC) 12; Exotic Proficiency (Scorpion-Tail Whip) Chosen Weapon, Enchant Chosen Weapon +1
    10th Arcane Duelist 2 7 4 5 10 Craft (Blacksmithing) 11; Intimidate 2; Perform (Act) (+2) 8.5; Tumble (+1) 12.5; Spellcraft (+1) 13; UMD (+2 CC) 13; Apparent Defense
    11th Artificer 8 8 4 5 11 Craft (Blacksmithing) 11; Intimidate (+2 CC) 3; Perform (Act) 8.5; Tumble (+2 CC) 13.5; Spellcraft (+1) 14; UMD (+1) 14; Persistent Spell (Artificer Bonus) Bonus Feat
    12th Arcane Duelist 3 8 5 5 11 Craft (Blacksmithing) 11; Intimidate 3; Perform (Act) (+3) 11.5; Tumble (+1) 14.5; Spellcraft (+1) 15; UMD (+2 CC) 15; Power Attack Dextrous Attack
    13th Arcane Duelist 4 9 5 6 12 Craft (Blacksmithing) 11; Intimidate 3; Perform (Act) (+3) 14.5; Tumble (+1) 15.5; Spellcraft (+1) 16; UMD (+2 CC) 16; Enchant Chosen Weapon +2
    14th Arcane Duelist 5 9 5 6 12 Craft (Blacksmithing) 11; Intimidate (+1) 4; Perform (Act) (+2) 16.5; Tumble (+1) 16.5; Spellcraft (+1) 17; UMD (+2 CC) 17; Blur
    15th Arcane Duelist 6 10 6 7 13 Craft (Blacksmithing) 11; Intimidate (+2) 6; Perform (Act) (+1) 17.5; Tumble (+1) 17.5; Spellcraft (+1) 18; UMD (+2 CC) 18; Martial Study (Rabid Wolf Strike) Enchant Chosen Weapon +3
    16th Arcane Duelist 7 10 6 7 13 Craft (Blacksmithing) 11; Intimidate (+2) 8; Perform (Act) (+1) 18.5; Tumble (+1) 18.5; Spellcraft (+1) 19; UMD (+2 CC) 19; False Keenness
    17th Warblade 1 11 8 7 13 Craft (Blacksmithing) 11; Intimidate (+1) 9; Perform (Act) (+1 CC) 19; Tumble (+1) 19.5; Spellcraft (+2 CC) 20; UMD (+2 CC) 20; Battle Clarity (Reflex Saves), Weapon Aptitude
    18th Arcane Duelist 8 12 8 8 14 Craft (Blacksmithing) 11; Intimidate (+1) 10; Perform (Act) (+2) 21; Tumble (+1) 20.5; Spellcraft (+1) 21; UMD (+2 CC) 21; Resounding Blow Enchant Chosen Weapon +4
    19th Arcane Duelist 9 12 9 8 14 Craft (Blacksmithing) 11; Intimidate (+2) 12; Perform (Act) (+1) 22; Tumble (+1) 21.5; Spellcraft (+1) 22; UMD (+2 CC) 22; Mirror Image
    20th Arcane Duelist 10 13 9 9 15 Craft (Blacksmithing) 11; Intimidate (+2) 14; Perform (Act) (+1) 23; Tumble (+1) 22.5; Spellcraft (+1) 23; UMD (+2 CC) 23; Flurry of Swords


    Spoiler: Castings
    Show

    Infusions
    Level Class 1st 2nd 3rd 4th extra
    1st Warforged Artificer 1 2 1st : +1
    2nd - 3 1st : +1
    3rd Artificer 2 3 1st : +1
    4th Artificer 3 3 1 1st, 2nd : +1
    5th Warforged Artificer 4 3 2 1st, 2nd : +1
    6th Warforged Artificer 5 3 3 1 1st, 2nd : +1
    7th Artificer 6 3 3 2 1st, 2nd : +1
    8th Artificer 7 3 3 2 1st, 2nd : +1
    9th -
    10th -
    11th Artificer 8 3 3 3 1 1st, 2nd : +1

    1st : Natural Weapon Augmentation & Weapon Augmentation, Personal combo is your bread and butter
    Spoiler: Spell Storing Item
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    This infusion is here for versatility.
    The 1 minute casting time means it’s perfectly suited for utility spells you wouldn’t need in combat and wouldn’t craft a wand for.
    The minimum UMD check needed is 23 and it goes up to 32, taking into account that nat1s exist (and hurt), you need a 2 to make it work and here is when you can make it work 95% of the time :
    Spell level UMD target ECL
    1st 23 6
    2nd 26 7
    3rd 29 7
    4th 32 8*

    Under the hood :
    Assuming max ranks, Mage’s Spectacles gives a +6 starting at level 3 with the essentia point from Midnight Dodge, Weapon familiar is +3, Cha is +2, Skill Enhancement infusion is +(2+½*CL) and Artisan Bonus +2 triggers when you get Craft Wand at Artificer 6 (see errata)
    * : When you Self-Infuse, you gain +1 CL. Therefore, Skill Enhancement give you the +(2+½(7+1)) at ECL 8 = +6
    even though you’re Artificer 7.

    Last trick, Infuse Self with SSI and share it with your weapon so that if you fail the UMD check on one, you still have the other to try it with.

    2nd : Lucky Blade to help you crit-fishing or avoid nasty nat1s.
    3rd : Metamagic Item also called Persist me this
    4th : Natural Weapon Augmentation ups the stakes to +3/70k gp abilities. Hell it looks like they stack with the 1st level ones so go crazy. Concurrent Infusions can have its uses as well.

    Spells
    Duskblade gives us 3x 0th lvl, 2x 1st lvl spells per day and 3+Int : dancing lights, detect magic, flare, ghost sound, and read magic per day as SLA.

    Maneuvers
    IL is 7.5 at 15th and 9 at 17th so you qualify for 5th level maneuvers as long as you meet the prereqs :
    - Martial Study (Rabid Wolf Strike) at 15 to qualify for Blood in the Water and, in turn, Pouncing Strike.
    - Leading the Attack to qualify for White Raven Tactics.



    Spoiler: Level Breakdown
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    Spoiler: Level 1 – 5
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    OMG a Warforged, what’s happening ?!
    We start off great with the Living Construct subtype and the Artificer’s infusions including good ol’ Spell Storing Item that lets you have ANY spell up to your CL/2 with a good enough UMD check (level 1 : rank +4, Cha +2, Mage Spectacles +4, Skill Enhancement infusion +2 making a good +12… for now). But your bread and butter will be your Bane weapon thanks to Weapon Augmentation, Personal (the range being touch, you can cast and hold the infusion until a fight occurs at which point you can grab ahold of your weapon and specify the kind of bane you want).
    Enters Duskblade. It synergises well with Artificer, being Int-based, and helps a ton towards qualifying for the SI : full BAB, 1st level arcane spells, Martial proficiencies, Skilled-city Dweller ACF (Ride → Tumble) and last but not least, you can cast in light armor which warfoged’s composite plating imposes. It comes with some good spells so if you were to use a greatsword, you can add a Bane X infusion and cast Blade of blood to have 7d6 damage on a successful hit which should end any encounter at those levels. Remember your slam attack is compatible with touch spells from Duskblade should you be caught without your weapon in hand.
    Infuse Self allows you to have longer buffs (+1 CL) and Tools of War (Artificer 4) heals you for an amount equal to your Cha every time you infuse yourself so that’s nice (it also basically doubles your craft reserve). Another good synergy is that you can repair yourself with a Craft check since you have nothing better to do at night until you get Unseen Crafter to do it for you.
    Midnight Dodge gives us an extra essentia point which brings Mage’s Spectacle bonus to +6 finding some use of that awful prereq.


    Spoiler: Level 5 – 10
    Show

    We get our Weapon Familiar (one-handed for the +3 to UMD) and either slashing for +3HP (Scimitar) or Piercing for +2 on Ref (Rapier) to be able to add the Keen property to it. Alertness helps our low Wis and Share Infusion means we can cast Natural Weapon Augmentation to buff both our slam and our weapon and then add Weapon Augmentation on top of it.
    We can start crafting wands now, see the Wands section to see why that’s cool.
    This also is when we enter the SI (one level earlier than ¾ BAB progression builds) and the fun starts with Chosen Weapon which totally matches the fluff of our Weapon Familiar.
    Enchant Chosen Weapon combines really well with (Natural) Weapon Augmentation infusions and the crafting skills of an Artificer : only the actual magical enhancement from the crating count towards the price of the weapon, the rest is just gravy.
    Exotic Martial Proficiency (Scorpion-tail Whip) ? What the heck is this thing ? Oh yeah, this typo in Sandstorm makes it a 1d43 one-handed exotic weapon by RAW. It deals subdual damage (even if we ignore the footnote, it says so in the description…) If you crit with it though (nat 20 only), it deals double lethal damage AND can deliver a single dose of poison. We have to wait until the next few levels for it to make sense. If you still need a reason, think about this : adding Scorpion Tail to yourself and sharing it with your Weapon familiar makes a Scorpion-tail whip attacking with an actual scorpion tail and that’s hilarious.


    Spoiler: Level 10 – 15
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    Ahhh the sweet spot.
    Metamagic Item infusion combined with Persistent Spell and Spell Storing Item make you able to do beautiful things. Persist Divine Power to have the BAB and Str this SI deserves, Wraithstrike to touch more accurately, Siren’s Grace to not only buff your Cha & Dex but also add your Cha to AC (untyped) effectively doubling your Apparent Defense. What’s more you can top it off with wands of the 4 primal spells (Instinct, hunter, senses, speed to get Improved Uncanny Dodge and seldom lose that class ability. This is also when Blur SLA comes online, adding miss chance to massive AC.
    While not persistable (unless you’re on the “touch is fixed range” team), Scorpion Tail is nice especially so if you can share it with your Weapon Familiar (since share infusion stipulates it’s based on share spell). Speaking of scorpions, what was that about the scorpion-tail whip thingy that’s supposedly awesome ?
    Well let’s look at Dextrous Attack shall we : since the rapier is 1d6 and must, at least do 1 point of damage, you can subtract up to 5 points of damage to get to hit bonuses. Well our whip could, in theory, subtract up to 42 points even though you’re still capped by your BAB.
    Now, with Divine Power in place, you can put all your BAB into your strike and wield the whip 2-handed style for maximum damage, The math is simple, at 15th level you get 1d43-15 to damage for +15 to hit and turn your +15 from your BAB into +30 damage thanks to 2-handed Power attack. This is tantamount to having Dextrous Attack taking off 0.5 damage for every +1 to hit making it twice as good as it was, even better statistically if you roll anything between a 1 and a 15.
    Enchant Chosen Weapon is at +3 now. You can craft magic weapons up to +7 on abilities, add the +3 for free and then add the 4th level infusions (Natural) Weapon Augmentation for another 2 +3 abilities since they specifically say you don’t actually gain the enhancement, just the benefits of it. In essence, you’re the only guy with an effective +16 scorpion-tail whip I guarantee it. As for which abilities we want, we’ll see that in the Forge.


    Spoiler: Level 15 – 20
    Show

    Finishing the SI with a twist : Warblade. Now, in the late game, we don’t need to limit ourselves to one-handed weapon familiars since our UMD is already insane and Warblade lets us use Weapon Aptitude to get any Exotic Weapon Proficiency we want (anybody said Kaorti Resin ?).
    Second, we have maneuvers now.
    Blood in the Water is a given since we’re crit-fishing, Pouncing Charge is a great maneuver to use with Flurry of Swords and White Raven Tactics never fails to disappoint.
    Lastly, some help on the “save” side of things with +2 to For and +Int to Ref which ought to be pretty high now.
    As for the SI, False Keenness doesn’t allow us to multiply damage on a crit but it’s alright, we can work around this by crit-fishing with weapon abilities that ask for crits to reveal their splendor.
    Now that we’re all setup, Flurry of Swords can work its magic :
    Artificer crafting abilities make a +1 Enervating, Keen, Slow Burst, Collision Jovar to which Enchant Chosen Weapon gives us an effective +4 and you then add the benefits of a Consumptive Burst, Prismatic Burst weapon from the casting of both Natural Weapon Augmentation (self-infused and shared with your Weapon Familiar) and Weapon Augmentation. This means you have a 12-20 crit range and if you do crit, you bestow 2 negative levels, a 7th level spell, +5 flat damage (multiplied by your crit multiplier) and a chance to be slowed for every attack made by this weapon.
    At level 20, with Divine Power and Flurry of Swords we’re talking 6 attacks plus one from your Slam attack and another from Scorpion Tail (both buffed by the infusion) plus 1d4+3 times that since each image copies you. That adds up to a possible 72 attacks per round.
    According to my understanding of the rulings, your images should count as being you for the purpose of Blood in the Water making it increasingly easier to hit & damage.
    Pounce, full attack, White Raven Tactics, full attack again. That’s a potential of 142 attacks.
    Resounding Blow tops all this off forcing a scalable DC Will save-or-lose with each crit.



    Spoiler: The Forge
    Show

    Spoiler: Wands
    Show

    You can craft both wands and stuff to put them into so that you’re always prepared to use them : Wand chamber in your Weapon Familiar, Wand Sheath in your main arm and a Wand Bracer on your off hand make is so you have 2 instantly usable wands and 5 more available at a flick of your finger should you need them.
    Craft as many as possible as Eternal Wands since Duskblade allows you to use them without UMD (yes nat1 i’m looking at you).
    The 3rd level Metamagic Item makes us able to Persist pretty much any spell that is Persistable.

    Wraithstrike is the prime candidate (if not persisted) for your Wand chamber.
    Siren's Grace +4 to Cha & Dex, add Cha to AC (stacks with Apparent Defense) and +8 to Perform (which Sek trains painfully throughout his career) and you can breathe & fight underwater !
    Heroics because free feats are always cool, especially flavorful ones like Brute Fighting or Leap Attack to have Dextrous Attack be thrice as good (if you manage the 8 ranks of jump).
    Scorpion Tail Add another secondary natural attack to you and one to your Weapon Familiar as a free action/full BAB deal that might even stun the target !
    Nerveskitter in your wand sheath & Sign in your weapon is a good combo. Along with the Primal Speed spell, you have a Dex+14 to Init.
    Wings of Cover because saying “no” to pretty much any threat is always nice
    Alter Self : You can do insane stuff with this considering your Construct type (you do keep the Living construct subtype though). The Guardgoyle is insane : Fly speed 50ft (good), bite attack, small size, Weapon Finesse and +5 Natural armor.
    Polymorph Obviously (capped at 9HD with Infuse self’s +1 CL on Spell Storing Item infusion)
    Primal spell line :
    Hunter : +5 Climb, Jump, Swim
    Instinct : +5 Init & Survival (UMD dragonblood : +5 bonus & trained in a specific knowledge)
    Senses : +5 Listen & Spot, low light (UMD dragonblood : Blindsense 10ft)
    Speed : +5 resistance bonus on Ref, +10ft enhancement to speed
    Having all 4 gives you Improved Uncanny Dodge which ensures you keep your Apparent Defense at all times.

    Of course I could go on about how picking from every spell list makes stuff like Divine Power a 3rd level (Runescarred Barbarian) or Haste a 1st level (Trapsmith) but that’s inelegant (it can save you some xp using Spell Storing Item though).


    Spoiler: Weapon Abilities
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    First, this build is mostly pretending to have weapon enhancements it doesn't actually have. Enchant Chosen weapon mentions “effective enhancement bonus” and the Weapon Augmentation line of infusions plainly states you only get the benefits of it.
    Also, while the former mentions the bonuses counting towards the +10 limit, none of them should count towards the 200k limit so you can have a +6 equivalent weapon costing 200k gold and still add the +4 from the SI’s class ability and two +3 bonuses to your weapon making it an effective EPIC weapon.
    A +1 enervating keen lucky tiger claw slow bust shadowstrike vanishing prismatic burst sizing hideaway Jovar to which you add Cursespewing and Consumptive Burst via infusions and a +4 enhancement bonus via Enchant Chosen Weapon is fair game. Well. At least it's a game.

    +1 :
    Lucky is always nice to have. It stacks with Lucky Blade infusions for making crits more reliable
    Bane to be lethal at low levels
    Keen obviously
    Martial Discipline Weapon A Tiger Claw weapon gives you a +3 to atk & dmg as long as you’re in Blood in the Water stance (which is always)
    +2:
    Enervating who cares if your Flurry of Sword images deal subdual damage as long as they give negative levels as well ?
    Collision +5 per hit, on 48 potential hits per turn. Oh and crits should multiply it since it’s a static bonus
    +3:
    Consumptive Burst because more negative levels is good
    Cursespewing Just in case they live long enough to strike back (no save)

    Hideaway (+2k gp) : Be a grower not a shower.
    Slow burst (+5k gp) (DC14) is low but the more they have to make, the more likely they are to fail right ?
    Shadowstrike (+5k gp) : Reach and makes enemy flat-footed 1/d
    Sizing (+5k gp) : So that your weapon can follow your transformations
    Vanishing (+8k gp) : Teleport 60ft as a swift on a hit, yes thank you.
    Prismatic Burst (+30k gp) : (DC20) is insane for crit-fishers. A 7th level spell for free on every crit.

    Spoiler: Special Materials
    Show

    Pitspawned Template
    Nice template from DMG II gives you a +2 bonus on rolls to confirm a critical threat (-1 to attack rolls for good characters) : +1000gp

    Solarion Truesteel
    Give another +1 on rolls to confirm crit threats: +1000gp.

    Let me just say it’s totally badass to have a Jovar made of Solarion Truesteel, since the weapon is literally “the preferred weapon of the Heavenly City’s archon guards”, “crafted on the Infinite Layers of the Abyss by a smith native to that plane”.

    Kaorti Resin
    Since you can craft and use any exotic weapon after an hour of training, Kaorti Resin is on the table for you. Now while the Dextrous Attack/False Keenness has been calculated so that you can’t abuse it, a number of weapon abilities increase the damage they make depending on your crit multiplier : Fiercebane, Collision, Profane Burst, Maiming etc. so that’s still something worth looking into. (can’t have the Solarion Truesteel if you go that route though)

    Spoiler: Crits for everyone
    Show

    Greater Demolition Crystal and Greater Truedeath Crystal can help you strike critical hits on Constructs and Undeads respectively. Since the prerequisite to put the crystal on a weapon is it being +3 enhancement, you have to wait until after you use your class ability ENchant Chosen Weapon. I believe it works according to the wording
    The arcane duelist's chosen melee weapon acts as if it has an enhancement bonus, even if it does not.
    Or you could opt for effects that activate even if targets are supposed to be immune to crits such as Desiccating Burst (x2 vs plants), Sacred Burst, Screaming Burst, Paralyzing Burst
    and the Slow and Prismatic Burst which we keep no matter what.
    Lastly, Deathstrike Bracers are cheap and useful (MIC 93).





    Spoiler: Discussions
    Show

    Share Infusion
    At the creator's option, he can have any infusion he infuses on himself also affect his weapon familiar. The weapon familiar must be held at the time of casting to receive the benefit, and the creator and his weapon familiar can share spells even if those spells don't normally affect objects. This ability otherwise functions identically to the share spells ability.
    This leads me to believe you can have the benefits of Natural Weapon Augmentation affect it since you’re a legal target even if your weapon isn’t.
    And if you’re being given a hard time because the weapon doesn’t have a natural weapon to benefit from the infusion, just get one rank in Use Psionic Device (at the expense of Intimidate at level 1), craft a https://web.archive.org/web/20171028122100/http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a]Guidance of the Avatar[/URL] wand and buy a Dorje of Graft Weapon in order to make your Scorpion-tail whip count as both natural AND regular weapon. Now we’re legal.
    The Illithid Weapon Graft is another way of doing this without psionic shenanigans but it gives us less flexibility.

    Blood in the Water
    According to my understanding of the rules for this competition, having a dose of poison in your Scorpion-tail whip and using Flurry of Sword makes it so that only one such dose can be delivered by you or any one the images. This means that, in essence, these images are an extension of you which in turn implies that Blood in the Water stance make your images’ crits stack bonuses with yours.

    Miscellaneous
    * Operating under the assumption you craft Int enhancing items to get at least a second 4th level Infusion (and more Duskblade spells per day); they are 50% off for you, why wouldn’t you ?

    * If you didn’t get it from the backstory, the craft skill can be used to create various art forms according to Races of the Stone p131 which is completely appropriate for our crafter wannabe artist that’s forcing himself to be a performer by faking it until he makes it.

    * Natural Weapon Augmentation says Warforged Spellcasters cast this “spell” (which it isn’t) at +1 CL. Artificers aren’t spellcasters by RAW but since we dipped Duskblade we ARE so we end up among the very niche builds that can enjoy this benefit, yayyy.

    * Yes we’re losing XP crafting wands and using Spell Storing Item but Distilled Joy is an accessible spell and we have the Perform ranks to make the experience a memorable one to anyone who agrees to be targeted by the spell.


    Spoiler: Sources
    Show

    SRD - Spells, Extend Spell, Item Creation feats, 9-headed Hydra, Dorje, Graft Weapon
    Eberron Campaign Setting - Warforged, Artificer, Wand Sheath, Infusions
    Races of Eberron - Warforged Artificer, Scorpion Tail, Natural Weapon Augmentation, Brute Fighting
    Magic of Eberron - Lucky Blade infusion
    Web - Arcane Duelist, Kaorti Resin
    PHBII - Duskblade, Spells
    DMG II - Pitspawned Template
    Planar Handbook - Consumptive Burst Ability (p79), Jovar
    Magic Item Compendium - Most Weapon abilities, Eternal Wands, Augment Crystals
    City of Splendors : Waterdeep - Guardgoyle (p135)
    Dungeonscape - Wand Chamber, Wand Bracer
    Sandstorm - Scorpion-tail Whip
    Dragon Magic - Primal spell lines, Wings of Cover
    Complete Arcana - Persistent Spell
    Magic of Incarnum - Shape Soulmeld, Midnight Dodge, Mage’s Spectacles (soulmeld)
    Book of Exalted Deeds - Resounding Blow, Solarion Truesteel, Distilled Joy
    Fiend Folio - Illithid Weapon Graft (p213)
    Last edited by The Viscount; 2022-06-05 at 11:26 PM.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  25. - Top - End - #85
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Dec 2012

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXIX

    Laugh at my boner, will they?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonerang
    Spoiler: Intro
    Show
    Bear with me, this is the second entry, and I've recycled what was going to be a junkward wars build because I feel it works better for IC. I don't have the energy to go in depth with it, sorry :( It's going to be technical and somewhat sparse in explanation/fluff. Choices made straight for fun/power with little care how they would fit together, except for straight up illegal stuff ( like not being a cleric of Eilistraee while picking darksong knightChampions of Valor on the fighter levels)

    Core concept: flurry of sword is cool, in a "death by a thousand cut cool", it's a fairly strong output multiplier, since it's between x5 and x8 to the damage done, even the majority of that is going to be nonlethal.

    What I was going for JW: bloodstorm blade 6 into master thrower 5 : be a "hammerthrower" of gigantified minotaur greathammers at 17-20/x5 doing touch attacks
    Why I dropped it for JW: massive eyebrow twitch from the NPC levels. Like, every time I saw those warrior levels, I was "WHY U NO FIGHTER!", and when I saw those expert level, I was "WHY U NO RANGER!"
    sidenote : name is a carryover. on JW I was doing marrusaultSandstorm (RHD 6 LA)/ expert 1 / bloodstorm 6 / master thrower 5. To leverage that sweet bonus feat that marrusaults have. (plus native large size!)

    for this IC, I started out as a tentative (not in order) warblade 4/duskbladePlayer's handbook II 1 / arcane duelist 10/ bloodstorm blade 4 / master thrower 1. It was just hilarious to think about me and the mirror images throwing around massive hammers, it was workshopped from there

    duskblade became sorcerer rather early, for wraithstrike access
    warblade 4-> fighter 2 / warblade 2, because the build is feat intensive, and 2 more feat felt better than more manouvers

    warblade 2 -> warblade 1 / battledancerDragon compendium 1. Could have done darksong knight fighter for perform, but I had this moment where I thought "you know what's even funnier? if we throw PUNCHES instead of hammers, buth monk loses 1 BAB *sad panda noises* *sigh* let's go battledancer, no point in avoiding it just to avoid it"

    There was a brief flirt with kobold, to drop the sorcerer level completely and use draconic rite of passageRaces of the dragon to qualify for precocious apprentice, and go (not in order) battledancer 1 / fighter 2 /ranger 2 / warblade 1 / bloodstorm 4 / arcane duelist 10. To lean onto TWF. But I didn't like much the assumption that our lone 2nd level spell slot would qualify for arcane duelist, and the stat spread of kobold sucked.

    Another flirt with kobold was going dragonwroughtRoD again (sovereignDragons of Eberron) sorcerer 1 / fighter 2/ battledancer 1 / warblade 1 / bloodstorm 4 / master thrower 1. Either the sovereign that gives a bonus fighter feat every 4 hit dice, or the one giving +2 to sorcerer effective level, dropping master thrower for sorcerer 2. But it was a bit too sketchy for my taste.

    That was it for a while, (undecided race) sorcerer 1 / fighter 2 / battledancer 1 / warblade 1 / bloodstorm 4 / arcane duelist 10 / master thrower 1, I was cleverly using the caster level of the SLA of arcane duelist to qualify for craft wand for "all the wraithstrike I could want".

    But that was money intensive, so I pivoted to good old persistomancy for "all the wraithstrike I could want, 0gp cost!". Now the caster level of the SLA of arcane duelist is cleverly used to no-fail precocious apprentice instead :)

    I wish I could have gotten hulking hurlerComplete Warrior in, but unlike master thrower, hulking hurler tricks are action of their own, can't attach them as riders on the flurry :(

    Anyway, here we are!

    Spoiler: Bonerang
    Show
    NG NaenHoon Illuminian, Stalwart Sorcerer 1 / Fighter 2 / Cloistered cleric (of whoopassing) 1 / Warblade 1 / Bloodstorm Blade 4 / Arcane Duelist 10 / Master Thrower 1
    Naked ability scores STR 20 (16 +4 level), DEX 10, CON 14, INT 14, WIS 8, CHA 16 (15 +1 level)
    First ASI to CHA, further ASIs to STR

    Naked HP 9 + 5d12 + 2d10 + 11d8 + 1d6 + 40 (145) , 205 if there's a +6 CON item, 242 if there's also a manual
    Naked AC : 20% blur and mirror images, who cares about naked AC after the first 5 or so levels anyway. We can actually be in heavy armor so 19 or so without magic items (10 +8 armor +3 CHA -2 stance )

    Naked Saves : fort 16 Reflex 27* Will 27* *(manouvers we all love to use concentration check in place of will/reflex save, naked 23 ranks +2 CON +2 Hoon sigil)

    Hammer of doom: +1 earthbound collision aptitude martial discipline(iron earth) greathammer ; 1d12 19-20/x5 without false keenneess

    Naked but for a greathammer, napkin numbers should be, without power attack and dexterous attack knowledge devotion at +2 : BAB 13 + STR 5 + enhancement 5 + insight 2 + wpn focus 1+ masteries 4 +aptitude 1 + earthbound 2 + martial discipline 3 - false keenees 2 = +34/+29/+24 for 1d12+28+1d6 (STR 7 + enhancement 5 + insight 2 + wpn spec 2 + masteries 4+ aptitude 1 + collision 5 + earthbound 2) at 17-20/x5

    With the average touch AC of CR20 critters being 9 or so, we can dump all BAB to power attack, and safely hit up to 60ft with +19/+14/+9 for 1d12+54+1d6, and if we fancy shooting farther out, going max on dexterous attack means safely 7 more increments, so our full attack with many hammers, assuming we see(spot) our targets, is out to 240ft for +20/+15/+10 for 1d12 +41 + 1d6 at 17-20/x4, times the clones from flurry, minimum 4, so thats 5*(+18/+18/+13/+8 1d12+41) distributed (17-20/x5) + 1d6.
    We hit on a 2, so 95% of that, critical modulo is 1*0.7+5*0.3= 2.2 * (6.5+41) = 104*20(attacks)*0.95 = 1976 damage, of which 1580 or so is nonlethal. Add 395 for each extra clone from the 1d4 clones, and 4d6 form punishing stance.

    The nice thing about doing this with Bloodstorm blade is that we don't need to be in melee range, therefore much more smokeability!

    Add enlarge if you will, but eh

    Spoiler: leveling table
    Show
    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Reflex Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st Stalwart Sorcerer 1 +0 +0 +0 +2 16: {+4} Bluff: 4; {+4} Concentration: 4; {+4} Know(Arcana): 4; {+4 CC} perform: 2; Precocious Apprentice(Wraithstrike), Weapon focus(Glaive), Martial Weapon Profiency(Glaive) Familiar
    2nd Fighter 1 +1 +2 +0 +2 4: {+3 CC} Balance: 1.5; Bluff: 4; Concentration: 4; Know(Arcana): 4; {+1 CC} perform: 2.5; Power Attack
    3rd Fighter 2 +2 +3 +0 +2 4: {+3 CC} Balance: 3; Bluff: 4; Concentration: 4; Know(Arcana): 4; {+1 CC} perform: 3; Ancestral Relic, Dodge
    4th Cloistered Cleric 1 +2 +5 +0 +4 8: {+2 CC} Balance: 4; Bluff: 4; {+1} Concentration: 5; {+1} Know(Arcana): 5; {+1} Know(Dungeon): 1; {+1} Know(Religion): 1; {+1} Know(Planes): 1; {+1 CC} perform: 3.5; Extend spell, Point-blank shot, Knowledge Devotion(Dungeon) Planning Domain, Elf Domain, Lore
    5th Warblade 1 +3 +7 +0 +4 6: {+4} Balance: 8; Bluff: 4; Concentration: 5; Know(Arcana): 5; Know(Dungeon): 1; {+1} Know(Local): 1; Know(Religion): 1; Know(Planes): 1; {+1 CC} perform: 4; Battle Clarity, Weapon aptitude
    6th Bloodstorm Blade 1 +4 +9 +0 +4 6: Balance: 8; Bluff: 4; {+2} Concentration: 7; Know(Arcana): 5; Know(Dungeon): 1; Know(Local): 1; Know(Religion): 1; Know(Planes): 1; {+1 CC} perform: 4.5; {+1} tumble: 1; {+2} Collector of stories; Persistent Spell, Throw anything Returning attacks, Weapon aptitude
    7th Bloodstorm Blade 2 +5 +10 +0 +4 6: Balance: 8; Bluff: 4; {+2} Concentration: 9; Know(Arcana): 5; Know(Dungeon): 1; Know(Local): 1; {+2 CC} Know(Nature): 1; Know(Religion): 1; Know(Planes): 1; {+1 CC} perform: 5; {+1} tumble: 2; Martial throw, Thunderous throw
    8th Bloodstorm Blade 3 +6/+1 +10 +1 +5 6: Balance: 8; Bluff: 4; {+2} Concentration: 11; Know(Arcana): 5; Know(Dungeon): 1; Know(Local): 1; Know(Nature): 1; Know(Religion): 1; Know(Planes): 1; perform: 5; {+2} spot: 2; {+2} tumble: 4; Weapon Specialization(Greathammer)
    9th Bloodstorm Blade 4 +7/+2 +11 +1 +5 6: Balance: 8; Bluff: 4; {+1} Concentration: 12; Know(Arcana): 5; Know(Dungeon): 1; Know(Local): 1; Know(Nature): 1; Know(Religion): 1; Know(Planes): 1; perform: 5; {+4} spot: 6; {+1} tumble: 5; Mobility Lightning ricochet
    10th Arcane Duelist 1 +7/+2 +11 +3 +7 6: Balance: 8; {+2} Bluff: 6; {+2 CC} Concentration: 13; Know(Arcana): 5; Know(Dungeon): 1; Know(Local): 1; Know(Nature): 1; Know(Religion): 1; Know(Planes): 1; perform: 5; {+2} spot: 8; tumble: 5; Chosen weapon, Enchant chosen weapon +1
    11th Arcane Duelist 2 +8/+3 +11 +4 +8 6: Balance: 8; {+2} Bluff: 8; {+2 CC} Concentration: 14; Know(Arcana): 5; Know(Dungeon): 1; Know(Local): 1; Know(Nature): 1; Know(Religion): 1; Know(Planes): 1; perform: 5; {+2} spot: 10; tumble: 5; Apparent defense
    12th Arcane Duelist 3 +9/+4 +12 +4 +8 6: Balance: 8; {+2} Bluff: 10; {+2 CC} Concentration: 15; Know(Arcana): 5; Know(Dungeon): 1; Know(Local): 1; Know(Nature): 1; Know(Religion): 1; Know(Planes): 1; perform: 5; {+1 CC} Sleight of hand: 0.5; {+1} spot: 11; tumble: 5; Melee Weapon Mastery(Bludgeoning) Dexterous attack
    13th Arcane Duelist 4 +9/+4 +12 +5 +9 6: Balance: 8; {+2} Bluff: 12; {+2 CC} Concentration: 16; Know(Arcana): 5; Know(Dungeon): 1; Know(Local): 1; Know(Nature): 1; Know(Religion): 1; Know(Planes): 1; perform: 5; {+1 CC} Sleight of hand: 1; {+1} spot: 12; tumble: 5; Enchant chosen weapon +2
    14th Arcane Duelist 5 +10/+5 +12 +5 +9 6: Balance: 8; {+2} Bluff: 14; {+2 CC} Concentration: 17; Know(Arcana): 5; Know(Dungeon): 1; Know(Local): 1; Know(Nature): 1; Know(Religion): 1; Know(Planes): 1; perform: 5; {+1 CC} Sleight of hand: 1.5; {+1} spot: 13; tumble: 5; Blur
    15th Arcane Duelist 6 +10/+5 +13 +6 +10 6: Balance: 8; {+2} Bluff: 16; {+2 CC} Concentration: 18; Know(Arcana): 5; Know(Dungeon): 1; Know(Local): 1; Know(Nature): 1; Know(Religion): 1; Know(Planes): 1; perform: 5; {+1 CC} Sleight of hand: 2; {+1} spot: 14; tumble: 5; Ranged Weapon Mastery(Bludgeoning) Enchant chosen weapon +3
    16th Arcane Duelist 7 +11/+6/+1 +13 +6 +10 6: Balance: 8; {+2} Bluff: 18; {+2 CC} Concentration: 19; Know(Arcana): 5; Know(Dungeon): 1; Know(Local): 1; Know(Nature): 1; Know(Religion): 1; Know(Planes): 1; perform: 5; {+1 CC} Sleight of hand: 2.5; {+1} spot: 15; tumble: 5; False keenness
    17th Arcane Duelist 8 +11/+6/+1 +13 +7 +11 6: Balance: 8; {+2} Bluff: 20; {+2 CC} Concentration: 20; Know(Arcana): 5; Know(Dungeon): 1; Know(Local): 1; Know(Nature): 1; Know(Religion): 1; Know(Planes): 1; perform: 5; {+1 CC} Sleight of hand: 3; {+1} spot: 16; tumble: 5; Enchant chosen weapon +4
    18th Arcane Duelist 9 +12/+7/+3 +14 + +11 6: Balance: 8; {+1} Bluff: 21; {+2 CC} Concentration: 21; Know(Arcana): 5; Know(Dungeon): 1; Know(Local): 1; Know(Nature): 1; Know(Religion): 1; Know(Planes): 1; perform: 5; {+1 CC} Sleight of hand: 3.5; {+2} spot: 18; tumble: 5; Precise shot Mirror Image
    19th Arcane Duelist 10 +12/+7/+3 +14 +8 +12 6: Balance: 8; {+1} Bluff: 22; {+2 CC} Concentration: 22; Know(Arcana): 5; Know(Dungeon): 1; Know(Local): 1; Know(Nature): 1; Know(Religion): 1; Know(Planes): 1; perform: 5; {+1 CC} Sleight of hand: 4; {+2} spot: 20; tumble: 5; Flurry of swords
    20th Master Thrower 1 +13/+8/+3 +14 +10 +12 6: Balance: 8; {+2 CC} Bluff: 23; {+1} Concentration: 23; Know(Arcana): 5; Know(Dungeon): 1; Know(Local): 1; Know(Nature): 1; Know(Religion): 1; Know(Planes): 1; perform: 5; Sleight of hand: 4; {+3} spot: 23; tumble: 5; Quick draw Deadeye shot

    Spoiler: Recap of this and that, spells, manouvers
    Show
    Illuminian: cool race from Races of Destiny with a combinable racial trait, the highlight of our is spending turn attempts to fuel metamagic and +2 to wisdom,constitution and intelligence checks (and of their skills)
    stalwart sorcerer: ACF from Complete Mage that trades one spell known for +2HP and weapon focus in one martial weapon ( and profiency)
    precocious apprentice: Complete Arcane,know a 2nd level spell ahead of time. Must succeed a caster level check DC 8 to use
    Weapon focus: +1 to attack roll with selected weapon
    Familiar: the lovable scamp also known as "Helping hand" . It shall be a Toad to better survive that first level!
    Power attack: the good old faithful of two handed people everywhere. malus to attack roll for twice the bonus to damage roll , gotten as a fighter bonus feat
    Ancestral relic: Book of exalted deeds must be good, the "get out of jail" free card for not getting penalties for item reliance in IC. Spend gold to magick up an item you own, without needing pesky crafting feats. Our ancestral relic will be a minotaur greathammer, from Monster Manual IV a 1d12 19-20/x4 exotic 2-handed weapon
    dodge: +1 dodge AC against selected opponent, gotten as a fighter bonus feat
    Cloistered cleric: Unearthed Arcana variant that gives us poor BAB and d6 die in exchange for more skill points, some extra class skill, and knowledge domain, that we promptly traded for
    knowledge devotion: Complete champion when you identify creatures, you gain between +1 and +4 insight bonus to attack and damage rolls. Also add one knowledge skill as a class skill to all classes, we picked dungeoneering
    planning domain:Spell Compendium we only care about the domain power, free extend feat
    extend metamagic: +1 metamagic for twice the duration
    elf domain:Spell Compendium we only care about the domain power, free point-blank shot feat
    point-blank shot: +1 to attack and damage with ranged attacks when within 30ft.
    Lore: Cloistered cleric equivalent of bardic knowledge
    Warblade: Tome of battle a martial class doing wuxia things. Which are manouvers that you can use every encounter and a stance that does what it says on the tin
    Battle clarity: INT to reflex saves, up to warblade level
    Weapon aptitude: count as fighter -2 for fighter feats, also can change the weapon of those feats that are worded like feat(weapon), such as weapon focus, specialization, etcetera
    Bloodstorm Blade: Tome of Battle PRC whose concept is "I throw my melee weapon at people"
    Throw anything:Complete Warrior gotten as a BB bonus feat, can use melee weapon as if they were thrown weapon ( no -4 penalty for improvised weapon). Range increment 10ft
    persistent spell: Complete Arcane +6 metamagic to change duration to 24 hours for personal or fixed range spells. Which wraithstrike is
    Returning attacks: spend one use of a iron heart manouver to give the property returning to your weapon for 1 round
    Martial throw: can initiate one of the wuxia manouvers with thrown weapon, normally they are almost all melee attack only
    Thunderous Throw: As a swift action ( caution!!: competes with immediate actions), you threat your ranged attacks done with thrown weapon as if they were melee.
    weapon specialization: +2 to damage rolls with selected weapon
    mobility: +4 dodge AC against attacks of opportunity made by the dodge target
    Lightning Ricochet: the potatoes for which we got Bloodstorm Blade, Allows you to make full attacks with thrown weapon and it doesn't even cost any kind of action or penalty. Weapons immediately returns to you without even needing the returning property
    Arcane Duelist: a poor class with a fun capstone
    Chosen weapon: bond with one weapon to declare it the recipient of your other class features.
    Enchant chosen weapon +X: your chosen weapon behaves as if it has an enhancement bonus of X higher, up to max +10 equivalent enhancement
    Apparent Defense: Add CHA to AC, only limit is it's lost when denied DEX
    Melee Weapon Mastery:Player's Handbook II +2 to attack and damage rolls with selected damage type when using melee weapon
    Dexterous Attack: take malus to damage roll for equivalent bonus to attack roll, up to BAB
    Blur: duelist level/day SLA of the same name. other than the usefulness itself before true seeing, this means we now have a higher CL for easier casting of wraithstrike!
    Ranged Weapon mastery:Player's Handbook II +2 to attack and damage rolls with selected damage type when using a ranged weapon. Also +20ft range increment.
    False keenness: duelist/day minutes of malus to attack roll equal to threat range in excahnge of a stacking keen/impact effect
    Precise shot: Ignore the -4 attack penalty when using a ranged attack against a target engaged in melee
    Mirror Image: duelist/day SLA of the same name
    Flurry of swords: Like mirror image, but the clones attacks with you when you do a full attack, basically multiplying your damage by 5-8
    Master Thrower:Complete Warrior PRC that adds tricks to thrown weapons
    Quick Draw: bonus feat from Master Thrower. Draw weapon as a free action and hidden weapon as move action. free lunch is free lunch is free lunch.
    Deadeye shot: Increase critical multiplier of thrown weapon by 1

    Sorcerer Spells: Cantrips omitted.
    We have four 1st level slot, and one spell known, other than Wraithstrike. It needs to be a transmutation spell otherwise we won't be able to pick wraithstrike, since precocious apprentice requires us to pick a spell from a school we have access. Enlarge person is an easy choice.
    Wraithstrike: swift action personal, 1 round duration, your melee attacks are melee touch attacks for the duration.
    Enlarge person: 1minute duration, +1 size
    A note: If you think you will eventually have enough turn attempts that you can persist a second spell with your Illumian sigil, you may want to consider choosing a spell you might want to persist as your only sorcerer spell known. Be mindful of the transmutation limit of precocious apprentice. Levitate is a strong contender for cheap "all day long" flight, while still having utility even at first level.
    Another Option is Fist of stone, Spell Compendium, Which is 1 minute of +6 enhancement bonus to STR and of gaining one slam attack, useful at early level and potentially remaining useful later on to save a bit of money, or making sure you have enhancement bonus to STR if your campaign is low magic item :)
    Anyway, official entry is spell known: Enlarge person, with 4 slots per day

    Cleric Spells: Orisons omitted.
    We lack the wisdom to cast anything, unless we find/buy a +4 wisom item somewhere.
    But if we do, we'll have one True strike in the domain slot, and two slots to prepare spells.
    Personally I like Conviction from Spell Compendium, 10 minutes of +2 morale bonus to all saves, so 20 minutes total in two uses.
    Here, too, if you find yourself with having enough turn attempts (perhabs you found a NightstickLibris Mortis? to persist two spells in a day, You may want to prepare a Divine favor, for all day long luck bonus to damage and attack :)

    Manouvers: as a 5th character level, 1st level warblade, Our Initiator level is 3, allowing us access of manouvers of up to 2nd level. We have 3 manouvers and 1 stance known.
    Warblade refresh mechanism is "use a swift action then do a melee attack" , so careful with how it competes with thunderous throw and immediate actions.
    Steel Wind: Standard action do melee attack against two targets you threaten
    Punishing stance: while this is toggled on, melee attacks deal an extra 1d6 damage but you have -2 to AC
    Moment of Perfect Mind: Immediate action use a concentration check in place of a will save, a result of 1 is not a fumble
    Action before Thought: Immediate action use a concentration check in place of a reflex save, a result of 1 is not a fumble

    Spoiler: tactics
    Show
    Storywise, let's say we have been adopted by some greathorn minotaurs, and that's how we got the masterwork greathammer that will eventually become the ancestral relic.
    I'm sorry for the short blurb But I'm out of mana!

    Spoiler: 1-5
    Show
    You're a strange multiclass, I suppose you're a bit of a gish, at least we got the utility of being able to use ALLLLL the wands! But setup is setup. Glaive is kind of a placeholder for the weapon focus because we will be able to change it via weapon aptitude anyway, but at least it's a reach weapon so you can be safer for those early levels.

    Level 1: We're a 11HP sorcerer with 4 casting of enlarge person, plus a bit of out-of-combat utility with bluff, that should be plenty enough to survive that first level, just enlarge your more martial fellow players and hang back in the second line :)
    level 2: Really more of the same as level 1, at least these levels should go by quite fast, Enlarge your barbarian and take potshot with a reach weapon!
    Level 3: ancestral relic, masterwork greathorn minotaur greathammer, I suggest not spending money on it until you get to 6th level, because we lack the profiency to use it, so we kinda need the doing of touch attacks, Keep on poking with the Glaive, Maybe even enlarge yourself this time?
    Level 4: Well, here comes .... more setup :D , but at least now you are useful as the designated wand of cure light wounds whippersnapper. You can't reliably expect more than a +1 insight bonus to attack and damage from knowledge devotion, but what you paid for it is one meager average hp, so the trade was to your advantage anyway.
    Level 5: Warblade is here, which is to say we got our reflex and will save exchange for +11 concentration checks instead. And a bit more damage from the stance
    Anyway, other than some awkwardness at not having a well defined role, we're not terrible. Without enlarge which we are better off casting on the barbarian, we're looking at an attack profile of around +9 for 1d10+4+1d6, that's with a masterwork glaive and +1 knowledge devotion. Likely by now you should have a +2STR belt, so numbers would actually be +10 for 1d10+6+1d6

    Spoiler: 6-10
    Show
    A bit more setup, and the entry in the SI!

    level 6: persistent spell, which we will use for free by spending all 6 our turn attempts with naenhoon sigil, will of course be used on our 1/day wraithstrike. Do keep in mind it's a caster level DC8 check to use precocious apprentice spell, that's a 30% chance of fail because our caster level is only 1. That sucks but what can we do it will be a while before we get higher caster level on something else.
    Anyway, this is when realistically you should start investing gold into your ancestral relic, which has this nice mechanic of not needing to sell loot. Budget for Ancestral relic is 6500gp at 6th level, which is "half" the expected WBL. I'd say just go sacrifice 2000gp (like, a random +1 weapon looted form here or there) to make your greathammer +1 itself
    Do remember you're not profiency with it, unless your GM is EXTRA nice and lets you weapon aptitude the profiency stalwart sorcerer granted you, so even if you're attacking the touch AC, you only have a +5 or so on the attack roll, you can't really power attack yet, not reliably.
    level 7: we aren't "online" yet with doing ranged attacks all combat long, just be patient for that payoff in two more level! Meanwhile, ancestral budget became enough for what overall would be a +2 weapon.
    Personally I suggest AptitudeTome of Battle Remember Stalwart giving us martial weapon profiency(Glaive) ? well, Aptitude makes our greathammer count as a glaive for that feat, so no more -4 for nonprofiency! On top of that, since we have Weapon focus(greathammer), it also give an untyped +1 to attack and damage rolls.. so basically this +1 property effectively gives us +5 to attack rolls and +1 to damage, yum!
    Level 8: +1 BAb and +2 damage from the bonus feat, ain't it nice writing down what is gained on martial levels? You aren't forgetting what meager out-of-combat utility your skill ranks give, right? Not enough wallet to upgrade the weapon at this level.
    Level 9: We can do full attacks as thrown weapon, worry free! Except do worry a little bit : it's a swift action doing that using melee attacks due to thunderous throw, so if you suspect you might need/want to do a will/reflex save that round, just smack people normally, like, in the face? with your, you know, greathammer? :)
    9th level is a bit of a weird moment for ancestral relic, budget is 18000, so that should be enough to enchant it with another +1 property ( for a total of +3 ), but what about masterwork cost? does it count? play it safe and leave the enchanting for next level.
    Level 10: Enter the SI!, and also add Impact to your greathammer, making it a +1 aptitude impact greathammer. Smash is upon us!

    So, 30% chance each day that you fail to wraithstrike :( , soon, soon!
    Other than arcana, for other knowledge we're looking at a (1rank+5competence+2 intelligence+2hoon sigil, +2 circumstance masterwork item?) +12 on those knowledge checks, so the devotion has a 15% of being +1 and 85% of being a +2 or more (25% of +3 and 10% of +4)
    let's consider a worst case scenario and an "average scenario"
    Worst case scenario, no wraithstrike that day, and you roll terribly on knowledge and it's only +1, and for some reason your only magic item is your ancestral relic. Without power attack, your attack profile, naked, is (BAB 7 + STR 3 + enhancement 2 + focus 1 + aptitude 1 + insight 1) +15/+10 for 1d12 + 10 (STR 4+ enh 2 + specialization 2 + aptitude 1+ insight 1) with a critical profile of 17-20/x4. Average CR 10 monster has an AC of 22.58 Table. So we probably dont' want to power attack if wraithstrike fails.
    On a more average scenario, yes wraithstrike, so targeting touch AC, by now we should have a +4 STR belt, and let's say devotion was at +2. this makes the default attack profile +18/+13 for 1d12+14. Average touch AC for CR10 creatures is 9.23 ( are you using your knowledge checks to ask pointed questions at your GM about how likely to hti you are? :) ) So we can happily dump all 7 BAB onto power attack and still 95% hit with the first attack and 85% hit with the iterative!, but now they're 1d12+28 , +1d6 from the stance if we want to riskt he -2AC. We can even afford a bit of range penalties, but really it comes down to "we do this attack at range while those dudes come to us", after that you can just stand and full attack :)


    Spoiler: 11-15
    Show
    Two masteries, dexterous attack, and finally a SLA to "pay" precocious apprentice with this tier!

    Level 11: Cha to AC is nice, no fuss no muss and unlike the monk unarmored defense this works even while in armor, so we aren't "locked in" using luminous armorBook of Exalted deeds with monk's belt
    Relic, this level brings the cap high enough that we can up the hammer from an equivalent of +3 to the equivalent of +4, But I'd wait for when you can put a +2 or +3 property in, especially if your GM ignores ancestral relic wording about "paying the deifference" and doens't allow you to change the properties, but only allows you to upgrade it
    Level 12: Dexterous attack makes power attack go brrrrrrppppt. In some seriousness, this at least allows us ot power attack *some* when we fail to wraithstrike, ain't it nice to have a backup!? and the first mastery to have bigger numbers! Also I'm steadily sneaking in some bluff and some spot for out of combat utility, have you noticed that?
    Level 13: Bigger numbers form enchant weapon, and ancestral relic budge means we can jump from +3 equivalent to +5 equivalent, do you feel like adding CollisionMagic Item Compendium it's a flat +5 damage, which sounds good given our crit profile (17-20/x4 means average "8" return from this ( 5*0.8+5*0.2*4)
    Level 14: Blur! a bit late for it, but better LA'd than never! But more Importantly, this gives us CL 5 with it, meaning now precocious apprentice has only a 10% fail chance on the caster level check!, 5% next level, and will disappear by tier 4!
    Can also put another +1 on the hammer. Like with aptitude, let's double dip with EarthboundEberron campaign settings, it's equivalent to +2 so long that both you and the target aren't flying
    Level 15: Numbers going up.

    Ok, we're here, what are we looking at? 95% chance we'll have wraithstrike. let's go with +2 knoweldge devotion just the same. when we throw our hammer (with thunderous throw) we're doing ranged attacks using melee attacks, so I'd say both the masteries apply. Baseline no power attack no dexterous attack, no STR item the profile is BAB 10 + STR 4 + enhancement 4 + insight 2 + wpn focus 1+ masteries 4 + aptitude 1 + earthbound 2 = +28/+23 touch attack, damage 1d12 + 26 (STR 6 + enhancement 4 + insight 2 + wpn spec 2 + masteries 4+ aptitude 1 + collision 5 + earthbound 2). Average touch AC for CR 15 monster is 8, so we can happily dump all 10 BAB, do +18/+13 for 1d12+46 at 17-20/x4 and call it a day. If the GM makes custom encounters with "humanoid" enemies, that maybe will use buffs and spells and whatnot, dexterous attack can happily pay back some of power attack to penetrate those "touch AC 30" dudes. Another good use of dexterous attack in this contest is throwing the hammer far away. it does have a range increment of only 30ft after all, so you can no-issue trade damage in chunks of 2 to "pay" the range increment if you're attacking something far away, up 10 for going out to 8 increments while still having +12/+7 for 1d12+36. So stuff 240ft away.

    Spoiler: 16-20
    Show
    The big payout approaches! MORE HAMMERS FLYING!

    Level 16: False keenness doesn't stack with impact, but happily the wording of ancestral relic is "a sacrifice of valuable items worth the difference between the market price of the magic item your relic will become and the market price of your current relic". You currently have a +1 impact earthbound collision aptitude greathammer, that's our "cap" since it's equivalent ot +6 and enchant wepaon tops out at +10, but let's pray really hard as per the rules of ancestral relic, because you want it to become a "+1 earthbound collision aptitude martial discipline(iron earth) greathammer", and for the high high cost of 0gp you now have martial discipline from Tome of Battle . What this means in practical terms is that the punishing stance goes from being +1d6 damage for -2AC to being +3 attack +1d6 damage for -2AC. We could nominally add more weapon properties, those that have a flat cost and don't add to the equivalent enhancement bonus, but having a whole half of our wealth always invested in the weapon is quite hefty.
    Level 17: numbers going up.
    Level 18: Mirror image SLA to tidy over our survivability against anything without true seeing, and also numbers going up :)
    Level 19: It's here! what was one hammer is now 5 or more hammers! LET THE HAMMERS FALL! Who cares that they're nonlethal? they are MANY and you can do it from FAR AWAY!
    Level 20: let's cap out with the nifty +1 to critical multiplier.

    There's not really much tacticwise to add, you got your hammer, you got your clones to throw more hammers, you got a bit of bluff and spot and the knowledge to do a bit of utility out of combat, get on with the hammerthrowing!
    Precise shot "fixes" the -4 when we were throwing hammers at engaged people, but it's a fix in the way that dexterous attack is a fix : you could have simply used dexterous attack if you were missing the touch AC, this is simple fullfilling a prerequisite while allowing us to reliably hit out to two more range increment. a strong contender for this feat was far shot by the way, and the last level one of any class that would give us a bonus feat to spend on improved critical. In the end I like 17-20/x5 more than I do 15-20/x4 (average 9 vs average 9.5, so 15-20/x4 is actually better, but 17-20/x5 is more memorable because BIGGER NUMBERS!!!)

    Naked but for a greathammer, napkin numbers should be, without power attack and dexterous attack : BAB 13 + STR 5 + enhancement 5 + insight 2 + wpn focus 1+ masteries 4 +aptitude 1 + earthbound 2 + martial discipline 3 -2 false keenees = +34/+29/+24 for 1d12+28+1d6 (STR 7 + enhancement 5 + insight 2 + wpn spec 2 + masteries 4+ aptitude 1 + collision 5 + earthbound 2) at 17-20/x5

    With the average touch AC of CR20 critters being 9 or so, we can dump all BAB to power attack, and safely hit up to 60ft with +19/+14/+9 for 1d12+54+1d6, and if we fancy shooting farther out, going max on dexterous attack means safely 7 more increments, so our full attack with many hammers, assuming we see(spot) our targets, is out to 270ft for +18/+13/+8 for 1d12 +41 + 1d6 at 17-20/x4

    Spoiler: Possible controversies
    Show
    Precocious apprentice and caster level : I understand the probable RAI is that I should be using the caster level of the "class" we are an apprentice of. but it doesn't actually say that. Using a silly example, Silverbrow humans qualify for precocious apprentice without taking ANY level in an arcane class because they have a caster level due to the featherfall SLA. and SLA default to arcane/divine based on what spell list the spell appears in, so silverbrow humans always have a (arcane) caster level, and would ironically qualify for item creation feats while being 100% mundane fighters. So if Silverblood humans can ignore the caster level check when they are 7th level or higher, then we can ignore the caster level check when we get a high enough caster level from having blur SLA. it bothers me a bit that early on we have a 30% chance that we waste the touch attack for the day, but at least it's a problem that solves itself. This is from Complete Arcane rules meant to allow warlocks to take item creation feats. Silverblood are from Dragon magic.
    if it bothers you a lot, I suggest getting Arcane masteryComplete Arcane with a flaw at level 1, then retrain it to something useful once you get blur caster level, like Improved critical for example :).

    Using both melee weapon mastery and ranged weapon mastery with the same weapon: this is a bit weird, but pay close attention to the wording of these two feats: they don't say their bonuses apply when making a melee attack/ranged attack. they say their bonuses apply when using a melee weapon/ranged weapon. Thrown weapon are both! one could argue that when we use a thrown weapon to do melee attack we aren't using a ranged weapon. I counter argue that this is a sensible rule but we are making ranged attacks with a melee weapon, therefore we have our cake and eat it too!

    minotaur/goliath greathammer: some say the greathammer has been nerfed in Races of stone to be x4, and not 19-20/x4 anymore. I am of the opinion that different name means they are different items (obviously because that's convenient to me). if your GM says that greathammer sucks, luckily you can weapon aptitude away to a different weapon. Just talk to your GM about it before you select your ancestral relic! It's not just about the damage die + critical profile, There are weapons with cool riders out there!

    Using exotic weapons without profiency: yeah but so what? we're doing touch attacks with decent strength and we even have the option of NOT going full power attack if we need some extra in the attack roll, -4 isn't noticeable. if it really gets your goat, aptitude away to a different weapon (again: before you choose your ancestral relic!). I know I said that with the aptitude property, stalward sorcerer gives us martial weapon profiency(specific weapon). But this might be contested. Something something "can't use martial profiency for exotic profiency". This ignores what the weapon property says it does, but oh well. Clear it up before committing to greathammers and chose a different ancestral relic! But in this case you might want to get a different property rather than aptitude, since it goes down to be a simple +1/+1 to attack/damage, just like a normal enhancement, rather than the +5/+1 of cheesing it for free profiency

    There is a bit of discrepancy between not having a patron deity on our cleric level, but needing to pray in a consecrated place to upgrade our ancestral relic. The discrepancy is minor however, because ancestral relic doesn't actually say that it has to be of your deity, just that it be consecrated/hallowed. Somewhat stupidly you could buy a wand of consecrate and simply do your praying anywhere you want at the cost of 2 charges per 1000gp of changes made to the relic
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  26. - Top - End - #86
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Dec 2012

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXIX

    Rule number 15: A hero is only as good as her weapon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Asura Kris
    Spoiler: Portrait
    Show


    Asura was raised as a warrior. It was her destiny from the day she was born. But her real destiny has a bit of a special opinion on this. Warrior - yes, but warrior gifted by psychic powers and magic, not just regular sword-bearer. She was about ten when she first called her Separator - amazing scimitar. He is truly wonderful. Not part of the real world, but always comes if Asura calls him. He has two blades of perfect metall. Asura grows up and with her grows up Separator and their affinity. Firstly she can call scimitar only for a matter of seconds, but then several seconds became one dozen, several dozens, and finally minutes. Separator himself changes, too. He transforms. Blades became sharper and sturdier, even shape changes slightly. And then awoke Asura’s magic tallent. It wasn’t very big and her teachers decided to weave it inside Asura’s fighting style. They, her teachers, gave her a lot and they did a good job, but at one moment Asura was feeling it’s not what… Her soul and her blades want something different. She said goodbye to her family and went off to look for her own style. She found something. Somebody.
    Her destiny, her new teacher looks like a vagrant. Hobbit dressed in a sackcloth, but with such a wise and sharp sight. Asura met him on a road, one of many. He was robbed at that such moment. Some ruffians took away his bag and tried to find where something was, to no avail. Bandits began to get mad and at this moment Asura saw them all. She instantly understood what's going on and rushed to protect the hobbit. She won without a serious fight, but when she was applying her final blow a small hand came in its way to interrupt.
    - Don’t kill, I say. Did you not hear? - the hobbit asked Asura. She didn’t couldn’t find the answer looking at the bare hand that stopped her blade as if Separator hadn’t cut even small trees with a single blow.
    - How?... How did you do… This, - she asked haltingly.
    - Oh. It isn’t something I can teach you, girl, it isn’t your way, - the hobbit shook his head, - But… I see what I can.
    - What is it? - Asura’s breath was taken away.
    - Oh, I see. You were looking long. Say me girl, you can dance, right? Yes, you can of course. You can dance and you can fight. Why don’t you do both at once?
    - Teach me, master, I don’t know your name, teach me, I ask! - Asura was ready to kneel.
    - Call me Lightning Fist, I’ll show you part of my way. Part that you can use.
    - Master, And the other part? - Asura was curious.
    - I can show it to you, too, but it’s only for somebody who refuses the weapons besides his own body. Not for you. But you’ll have enough left over, the way will take all you, your speed, your sword, your magic, yes I saw it, your dance, your previous martial training and fuse it all in the single perfection! I know how.

    LG Human Soulbound Weapon Psychic Warrior-2/Duskblade-1/Fighter-2/Warblade-1/Dervish-3/Blade Dancer-1/Arcane Duelist-10

    Spoiler: Stats
    Show
    Abilities Initial 4th, 8th 12th 16th, 20th Total
    STR 12 2 14
    DEX 15 1 16
    CON 12 12
    INT 14 14
    WIS 14 14
    CHA 12 2 14


    Spoiler: Build
    Show
    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Reflex Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st Soulbound Weapon Psychic Warrior-1 0 2 0 0 20: {+4} Autohypnosis: 4; {+4} Concentration: 4; {+4} Jump: 4; {+4 CC} Perform (dance): 2; {+4} Tumble: 4; Two-Weapon Fighting (1), Evasive Reflexes (H), Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Double Scimitar) (PW), Weapon Focus (Double Scimitar) (B) Soulbound weapon, bonus feat, Weapon Focus
    2nd Soulbound Weapon Psychic Warrior-2 1 3 0 0 5: {+1} Autohypnosis: 5; {+1} Concentration: 5; {+1} Jump: 5; {+1 CC} Perform (dance): 2.5; {+1} Tumble: 5; Soulbound weapon
    3rd Duskblade-1 2 5 0 2 5: Autohypnosis: 5; {+1} Concentration: 6; {+1} Decipher Script: 1; {+1} Jump: 6; {+1 CC} Perform (dance): 3; {+1} Tumble: 6; Combat Expertise (3) Arcane attunement, armored mage (light)
    4th Fighter-1 3 7 0 2 5: Autohypnosis: 5; Concentration: 6; Decipher Script: 1; {+3} Intimidate: 3; {+1} Jump: 7; Perform (dance): 3; {+1} Tumble: 7; Expeditious Dodge (F) Bonus feat
    5th Warblade-1 4 9 0 2 7: Autohypnosis: 5; {+4} Balance: 4; {+1} Concentration: 7; Decipher Script: 1; Intimidate: 3; {+1} Jump: 8; Perform (dance): 3; {+1} Tumble: 8; Battle clarity (Reflex saves), weapon aptitude
    6th Fighter-2 5 10 0 2 5: Autohypnosis: 5; Balance: 4; Concentration: 7; Decipher Script: 1; {+3} Intimidate: 6; {+1} Jump: 9; Perform (dance): 3; {+1} Tumble: 9; Lightning Mace (6), Mobility (F) Bonus feat
    7th Dervish-1 6 10 2 4 7: Autohypnosis: 5; {+1} Balance: 5; Concentration: 7; Decipher Script: 1; Intimidate: 6; {+1} Jump: 10; {+4} Perform (dance): 7; {+1} Tumble: 10; Dervish dance 1/day, movement mastery, slashing blades
    8th Dervish-2 7 10 3 5 7: Autohypnosis: 5; Balance: 5; Concentration: 7; Decipher Script: 1; {+1} Escape Artist: 1; Intimidate: 6; {+1} Jump: 11; {+4} Perform (dance): 11; {+1} Tumble: 11; Fast movement +5 ft.
    9th Dervish-3 8 11 3 5 7: Autohypnosis: 5; Balance: 5; Concentration: 7; Decipher Script: 1; {+4} Escape Artist: 5; Intimidate: 6; {+1} Jump: 12; {+1} Perform (dance): 12; {+1} Tumble: 12; Ironheart Aura (9), Spring Attack (B) Spring Attack, dervish dance 2/day
    10th Blade Dancer-1 9 11 5 5 5: Autohypnosis: 5; Balance: 5; Concentration: 7; Decipher Script: 1; Escape Artist: 5; Intimidate: 6; {+1} Jump: 13; {+1} Perform (dance): 13; {+1} Tumble: 13; {+2} Acrobatic Backstab; Acrobatics (+10), leap of the clouds, fast movement
    11th Arcane Duelist-1 9 11 7 7 7: Autohypnosis: 5; Balance: 5; {+1} Bluff: 1; Concentration: 7; Decipher Script: 1; Escape Artist: 5; Intimidate: 6; {+1} Jump: 14; {+1} Perform (dance): 14; {+1} Sense Motive: 1; {+1} Tumble: 14; {+2} Slipping Past, Acrobatic Backstab; Chosen weapon, enchant chosen weapon +1
    12th Arcane Duelist-2 10 11 8 8 7: Autohypnosis: 5; Balance: 5; {+1} Bluff: 2; Concentration: 7; Decipher Script: 1; Escape Artist: 5; Intimidate: 6; {+1} Jump: 15; {+1} Perform (dance): 15; {+1} Sense Motive: 2; {+1} Tumble: 15; {+2} Back on Your Feet, Slipping Past, Acrobatic Backstab; Stormguard Warrior (12) Apparent defense
    13th Arcane Duelist-3 10 12 8 8 7: Autohypnosis: 5; Balance: 5; {+1} Bluff: 3; Concentration: 7; Decipher Script: 1; Escape Artist: 5; Intimidate: 6; {+1} Jump: 16; {+1} Perform (dance): 16; {+1} Sense Motive: 3; {+1} Tumble: 16; {+2} Up the Hill, Back on Your Feet, Slipping Past, Acrobatic Backstab; Dexterous attack
    14th Arcane Duelist-4 11 12 9 9 7: Autohypnosis: 5; Balance: 5; {+1} Bluff: 4; Concentration: 7; Decipher Script: 1; Escape Artist: 5; Intimidate: 6; {+1} Jump: 17; {+1} Perform (dance): 17; {+1} Sense Motive: 4; {+1} Tumble: 17; {+2} Nimble Stand, Up the Hill, Back on Your Feet, Slipping Past, Acrobatic Backstab; Enchant chosen weapon +2
    15th Arcane Duelist-5 11 12 9 9 7: Autohypnosis: 5; Balance: 5; {+1} Bluff: 5; Concentration: 7; Decipher Script: 1; Escape Artist: 5; Intimidate: 6; {+1} Jump: 18; {+1} Perform (dance): 18; {+1} Sense Motive: 5; {+1} Tumble: 18; {+2} Extreme Leap, Nimble Stand, Up the Hill, Back on Your Feet, Slipping Past, Acrobatic Backstab; Power Attack (15) Blur
    16th Arcane Duelist-6 12 13 10 10 7: Autohypnosis: 5; Balance: 5; {+2} Bluff: 7; Concentration: 7; Decipher Script: 1; Escape Artist: 5; Intimidate: 6; {+1} Jump: 19; {+1} Perform (dance): 19; {+2} Sense Motive: 7; {+1} Tumble: 19; Extreme Leap, Nimble Stand, Up the Hill, Back on Your Feet, Slipping Past, Acrobatic Backstab; Enchant chosen weapon +3
    17th Arcane Duelist-7 12 13 10 10 7: Autohypnosis: 5; Balance: 5; {+2} Bluff: 9; Concentration: 7; Decipher Script: 1; Escape Artist: 5; Intimidate: 6; {+1} Jump: 20; {+1} Perform (dance): 20; {+2} Sense Motive: 9; {+1} Tumble: 20; Extreme Leap, Nimble Stand, Up the Hill, Back on Your Feet, Slipping Past, Acrobatic Backstab; False keenness
    18th Arcane Duelist-8 13 13 11 11 7: Autohypnosis: 5; Balance: 5; {+2} Bluff: 11; Concentration: 7; Decipher Script: 1; Escape Artist: 5; Intimidate: 6; {+1} Jump: 21; {+1} Perform (dance): 21; {+2} Sense Motive: 11; {+1} Tumble: 21; Extreme Leap, Nimble Stand, Up the Hill, Back on Your Feet, Slipping Past, Acrobatic Backstab; Robilar's Gambit (18) Enchant chosen weapon +4
    19th Arcane Duelist-9 13 14 11 11 7: Autohypnosis: 5; Balance: 5; {+2} Bluff: 13; Concentration: 7; Decipher Script: 1; Escape Artist: 5; Intimidate: 6; {+1} Jump: 22; {+1} Perform (dance): 22; {+2} Sense Motive: 13; {+1} Tumble: 22; Extreme Leap, Nimble Stand, Up the Hill, Back on Your Feet, Slipping Past, Acrobatic Backstab; Mirror image
    20th Arcane Duelist-10 14 14 12 12 7: Autohypnosis: 5; Balance: 5; {+2} Bluff: 15; Concentration: 7; Decipher Script: 1; Escape Artist: 5; Intimidate: 6; {+1} Jump: 23; {+1} Perform (dance): 23; {+2} Sense Motive: 15; {+1} Tumble: 23; Extreme Leap, Nimble Stand, Up the Hill, Back on Your Feet, Slipping Past, Acrobatic Backstab; Flurry of swords


    Spoiler: Subsystems
    Show
    Maneuvers known: Punishing Stance (Stance) (1st Iron), Wall of Blades (Counter) (2nd Iron), Disarming Strike (Strike) (2nd Iron), Sudden Leap (Boost) (1st Tiger)

    Duskblade spells
    0 Level (3/day): acid splash, disrupt undead, ray of frost, touch of fatigue.
    1st Level (3*/day): blade of blood, true strike.
    *- with 14 Int.

    Psychic Warrior powers: Call Weaponry, Thicken Skin. 3 PP.


    Spoiler: Levels
    Show
    Spoiler: 6th level
    Show
    It is just beginning. Asura has her Soulbounded Separator, many bonus feats from PsiWar and Fighter which will be used not only as prereqs, but in fight, too. Her main weakness is low PP. It's very important for her to have some Cognizance Crystals and a backup blade.
    Warblade's weapon aptitude lets Asura pull off Lightning Mace trick.

    Spoiler: 10th level
    Show
    Asura gets three levels of Dervish and one of Blade Dancer. These two classes belong together. First gives Asura Dervish dance, +5 ft speed and Spring Attack prereq for Blade Dancer. Second gives an amazing move boost and +10 to valuable skills. It's unclear how fast movement should work with Asura's 35 ft speed. Maybe the result will be 70 ft, maybe 65 ft. Both options are amazing and both have great synergy with Expeditious Dodge.
    Ironheart Aura helps with not perfect now Will save and is prereq.

    Spoiler: 15th level
    Show
    Of course Asura's chosen weapon is Separator. More about this in the pre-debate section. Apparent defense gives Asura not so much if she doesn't have any Cha boosters. But even +2 AC is good. Dexterous attack now works well with Stormguard Warrior, Combat Expertise and Power Attack. It's a scheduled two-round tactic.
    First round Asura uses Combat Rhythm options to the full. Three attacks with the main hand, one with off-hand. Combat Expertise on max -5/+5, Dexterous attack to the maximum numbers (+11), too. It should be +25/+20/+15 and +25 with possible extra attacks due Lightning Mace. Calculations: +11(BAB) +1(WF) +2(Str) +11(Dexterous attack) +5(Weapon) +2(Dervish Dance) -2(TWF) -5(Combat Expertise) against touch AC. Asura's AC is about 23+Some light armor + maybe Blur. Plus if it is needed Asura can use defense for +3 AC/-4AB.
    In the second round Asura takes the Separator as a two-handed weapon and strikes three times. With maximum Dexterous attack, Power Attack more or less depends on enemy and Combat Expertise if needed. AB should be +27/+22/+17 -PA, damage 1d6 + 2(Str) + 5(Weapon) + 2(Dervish Dance) - 11(DA) + 5*N(Combat Rhythm) + 2*PA. AC the same. Repeat. Plus, remember dervish dance and 65-70 ft move.

    Spoiler: 20th level
    Show
    Now all comes together. Robilar's Gambit lets work Channel the Storm option well, add with every opponent's attack, and this means refrain AoO, +4 to AB and Damage against him. Plus Asura can not to use Tumble to avoid AoO for movement (less dangerous thanks to Mobility). Otherwise, her tactic is almost the same.
    First round: Combat Rhythm (and Channel the Storm) with +30/+30/+25/+20\+30 against touch (+14(BAB) +1(WF) +2(Str) +14(Dexterous attack) +9(Weapon) +2(Dervish Dance) -2(TWF) -5(Combat Expertise) -3(False keenness) -2(Flurry of swords)). Off-hand strike theoretically can be done with unarmed strike (only +7) to trigger another AoO, but it isn't very good idea. Attacks done with False Keenness to improve chance of working Lightning Mace.
    Second round: +32(remove -2 from TWF)/+32/+27/+22 -PA +4*M(Channel the Storm) with damage 1d6 + 2(Str) + 9(Weapon) + 2(Dervish Dance) - 14(DA) + 5*N(Combat Rhythm) + 4*M(Channel the Storm) + 2*PA and all these attacks should do images, too. AC still not big, even became less due Robilar's Gambit, but many Mirror images help.
    Best use of Punishing Stance should be put it on at the very end of the first round, after all AoO and being away from the enemy, use it all second round to add +1d6 damage and turn off at the round's end.
    I name 18th level the Sweet spot. 20th is clearly better with Flurry of swords, but on 18th Asura can do almost all the same.


    Spoiler: Pre-debate
    Show
    Two issues with my weapon.
    First. It's double. It's not clear how Soulbound Weapon ACF works with double weapons. How Call Weaponry works with them. Same question about chosen weapon. If it all works only with one blade... Well, some off-hand numbers will be less, but nothing lethal.
    Second. As you may have noticed, I use on the 15th and the 20th levels numbers +5 and +9 for Separator's enhancement bonuses. The thing is, there are no mentions of Psychic Warrior's level in the ACF, it just levels. So the Separator should grow up with his owner.
    Lightning Mace. It's unclear how this feat works with Flurry of swords. Maybe images get extra attack from their own crits, maybe from mine, maybe not get at all.
    Spells, Maneuvers, Powers. I didn't talk about them much. Because there are no special combos. If I use them, I use them straightforwardly. Same about Skill Tricks. Them can be useful in some circumstances, but I don't rely on them.

    Separator's name is a reference to one of interpretations of the name of the scimitar Zulfiqar. It used with all respect and I apologize if I somehow hurt someone’s feelings out of ignorance.


    Spoiler: Books
    Show
    Type Name Book
    Race Human PHB
    Class Psychic Warrior XPH
    Class Duskblade PHBII
    Class Fighter PHB
    Class Warblade ToB
    ACF Soulbound Weapon Expanded Classes, Part One
    ACF Skilled city-dweller Cityscape WE
    Prestige Class Dervish CW
    Prestige Class Blade Dancer OA
    Prestige Class Arcane Duelist It's SI, you know where it founds.
    Feat Two-Weapon Fighting PHB
    Feat Evasive Reflexes ToB
    Feat Exotic Weapon Proficiency PHB
    Feat Weapon Focus PHB
    Feat Combat Expertise PHB
    Feat Expeditious Dodge RotW
    Feat Lightning Mace CW
    Feat Mobility PHB
    Feat Ironheart Aura ToB
    Feat Spring Attack PHB
    Feat Stormguard Warrior ToB
    Feat Power Attack PHB
    Feat Robilar's Gambit PHBII
    All Skill Tricks All Skill Tricks CS
    All Spells All Spells PHB, PHBII
    All Powers All Powers XPH
    All Maneuvers and Stances All Maneuvers and Stances ToB
    Weapon Double Scimitar A&EG
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  27. - Top - End - #87
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXIX

    In the words of every Gotham city tough, "It's da Bat!"

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bat of House Orien
    The Bat of House Orien
    NE Human Unseelie Fey
    Ranger 2 / Duskblade 1 / Fighter 3 / Arcane Duelist 10 / Telflammar Shadowlord 4



    Spoiler: Little table of numbers
    Show

    Ability Scores
    Ability Point Buy Race Templates Total Starting Score
    STR 12 0 -2 10
    DEX 16 0 2 18
    CON 10 0 -2 8
    INT 14 0 0 14
    WIS 8 0 0 8
    CHA 16 0 2 18


    Spoiler: Big table of numbers
    Show

    Build
    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st Ranger - Celestial Slayer Skilled City-Dweller +1 +2 +2 +0 36: Balance 2, Concentration 2, Hide 4, Knowledge Local 4, Knowledge Religion 2, Move Silently 4, Perform 2, Spellcraft 2, Tumble 4 Expeditious Dodge, Least Dragonmark of Passage Celestial Slayer, Skilled City-Dweller
    2nd Duskblade +2 +4 +2 +2 5: Balance 2, Concentration 2, Hide 4, Knowledge Local 5, Knowledge Religion 3, Move Silently 4, Perform 2, Spellcraft 5, Tumble 4 - Arcane attunement, Armored mage (light)
    3rd Fighter - Dirty Fighter Thug +3 +6 +2 +2 7: Balance 2, Bluff 1, Concentration 2, Hide 5, Knowledge Local 5, Knowledge Religion 3, Move Silently 5, Perform 2, Spellcraft 5, Tumble 5 Mobility Sneak Attack 1d6
    4th Fighter 2 - Darksong Knight +4 +7 +2 +2 5: Balance 2, Bluff 5, Concentration 2, Hide 5, Knowledge Local 5, Knowledge Religion 3, Move Silently 5, Perform 5, Spellcraft 5, Tumble 5 - Darksong Knight, EWP Hand Crossbow
    5th Fighter 3 - Dirty Fighter Thug +5 +7 +3 +3 7: Balance 4, Bluff 6, Concentration 3, Hide 5, Knowledge Local 5, Knowledge Religion 3, Move Silently 5, Perform 5, Spellcraft 5, Tumble 5 - Sneak Attack 2d6
    6th Ranger 2 +6 +8 +4 +3 9: Balance 4, Bluff 6, Concentration 4, Hide 9, Knowledge Local 5, Knowledge Religion 3, Move Silently 9, Perform 5, Spellcraft 5, Tumble 5 Rapid Reload Rapid Shot
    7th Arcane Duelist +6 +8 +6 +5 7: Balance 5, Bluff 8, Concentration 4, Hide 10, Knowledge Local 5, Knowledge Religion 3, Move Silently 10, Perform 5, Spellcraft 5, Tumble 5 - Chosen weapon, Enchant chosen weapon +1
    8th Arcane Duelist 2 +7 +8 +7 +6 7: Balance 5, Bluff 9, Concentration 5, Hide 10, Knowledge Local 5, Knowledge Religion 5, Move Silently 10, Perform 5, Spellcraft 5, Tumble 5 - Apparent defense
    9th Arcane Duelist 3 +7 +9 +7 +6 7: Balance 5, Bluff 12, Concentration 5, Hide 10, Knowledge Local 5, Knowledge Religion 5, Move Silently 10, Perform 5, Spellcraft 9, Tumble 5 Lesser Dragonmark Dextrous attack
    10th Arcane Duelist 4 +8 +9 +8 +7 7: Balance 5, Bluff 13, Concentration 6, Hide 10, Knowledge Local 5, Knowledge Religion 5, Move Silently 10, Perform 5, Spellcraft 13, Tumble 5 - Enchant chosen weapon +2
    11th Arcane Duelist 5 +8 +9 +8 +7 7: Balance 5, Bluff 14, Concentration 8.5, Hide 10, Knowledge Local 5, Knowledge Religion 5, Move Silently 10, Perform 5, Spellcraft 14, Tumble 5 - Blur
    12th Arcane Duelist 6 +9 +10 +9 +8 7: Balance 5, Bluff 15, Concentration 9, Hide 10, Knowledge Local 5, Knowledge Religion 5, Move Silently 10, Perform 5, Spellcraft 15, Tumble 9 Blind Fight Enchant chosen weapon +3
    13th Arcane Duelist 7 +9 +10 +9 +8 7: Balance 5, Bluff 16, Concentration 11, Hide 10, Knowledge Local 5, Knowledge Religion 5, Move Silently 10, Perform 5, Spellcraft 16, Tumble 10 - False keenness
    14th Arcane Duelist 8 +10 +11 +10 +9 7: Balance 5, Bluff 17, Concentration 13, Hide 10, Knowledge Local 5, Knowledge Religion 5, Move Silently 10, Perform 5, Spellcraft 17, Tumble 11 - Enchant chosen weapon +4
    15th Arcane Duelist 9 +10 +12 +10 +9 7: Balance 5, Bluff 18, Concentration 15, Hide 10, Knowledge Local 5, Knowledge Religion 5, Move Silently 10, Perform 5, Spellcraft 18, Tumble 12 Spring Attack Mirror image
    16th Arcane Duelist 10 +11 +12 +11 +10 7: Balance 5, Bluff 19, Concentration 17, Hide 10, Knowledge Local 5, Knowledge Religion 5, Move Silently 10, Perform 5, Spellcraft 19, Tumble 13 - Flurry of swords
    17th Telflammar Shadowlord +11 +12 +13 +10 7: Balance 5, Bluff 20, Concentration 19, Hide 10, Knowledge Local 5, Knowledge Religion 5, Move Silently 10, Perform 5, Spellcraft 20, Tumble 13 - Shadowsight, Shadow jump
    18th Telflammar Shadowlord 2 +12 +12 +14 +10 7: Balance 5, Bluff 21, Concentration 21, Hide 10, Knowledge Local 5, Knowledge Religion 5, Move Silently 10, Perform 5, Spellcraft 21, Tumble 13 Martial Study Shadow blur
    19th Telflammar Shadowlord 3 +13 +13 +14 +11 7: Balance 5, Bluff 22, Concentration 22, Hide 10, Knowledge Local 5, Knowledge Religion 5, Move Silently 10, Perform 5, Spellcraft 22, Tumble 15 - Shadow walk
    20th Telflammar Shadowlord 4 +14 +13 +15 +11 7: Balance 5, Bluff 23, Concentration 23, Hide 10, Knowledge Local 5, Knowledge Religion 5, Move Silently 10, Perform 5, Spellcraft 23, Tumble 17 - Shadow pounce


    Spoiler: SomethingInTheWay.mp3
    Show
    The Bat of House Orien is an avenger. After a host of angels destroyed her parents' lightning rail in order to thwart the evildoers who had boarded, The Bat swore vengeance against them and all of their celestial ilk. She stalks from city to city and attacks them in their places of worship.

    As a naturally dexterous and charismatic human-fey child of House Orien, tutelage as an Arcane Duelist was a natural fit for the orphan once she had proven her capacity for violence. Under the instruction of her uncle, more of a father really, The Bat honed the amalgamation of skills she had acquired traveling all over the world into a focused weapon to wield against the enemies of her house.

    The continued voyages of The Bat inevitably revealed the Shadowlords of the East and her transformation into one gave rise to the most potent assassin that House Orien has ever seen.

    Thoughts:


    We just can not have enough feats and as much as I would have liked to use Strongheart Halfling the hit to potential damage from small weapons did not play well with the SI. The Unseelie template solves a lot of problems with being human, Autumn Harvest's dispellings play well with Apparent Defense as both scale off of CHA, and the 60ft flight speed activates expeditious dodge (with bat wings obviously).

    With race figured out, the next question was how to qualify for the SI at the earliest moment in order to also get 4 levels of Shadowlord. To that end; 3 levels of Dirty Fighter and one of Duskblade seemed absolutely necessary and Darksong Knight gives Perform as a class skill.

    Ranger vs Paladin was a discussion for the other 2 levels but rapid shot and City-Dweller's skills won out in the end. Also the SI fluff just says no Paladins soo...
    Knowledge Local is needed for Shadowlord, and Religion for Darksong Knight.


    That brings us to the first snapshot at ECL 6: 2d6 SA damage on 3 crossbow shots in a round and good stealth skills make The Bat a consistent damage dealer. SR 16 against good effects from Celestial Slayer, relatively high saves from dipping between 3 classes, and a solid DEX bonus allow The Bat to stay in the fight and make use of whatever allies she may have to guarantee the SA dice. Mark of Passage will grant dimension leap on top of her 3 1st level spell slots. Ranks in spellcraft allow her to make up for limited casting.



    After that it's all 10 levels of the SI. Lesser Dragonmark will grant dimension door as a prerequisite for Shadowlord, we pick up Blind-Fight for the same reason.


    I think a snapshot at ECL 13 is appropriate as it opens up False Keenness. The key item is a Keen Morphing Paralyzing Burst Rapier which is usually a crossbow and threatens on 12-20 (the chosen 'melee' weapon). The Bat gets those 3 attacks at significant bonus from Dexterous Attack and Celestial Slayer gives a bonus to confirm rolls which is cool too. Apparent Defense secures the high AC due to the high CHA of our Fey girl.



    The remaining 7 levels are used to qualify for, and get the most out of, Telflammar Shadowlord and Shadow Pounce. To do this The Bat will be utilizing a whip in one hand and her Keen Morphing Tentacle Rapier in the other. Other money goes to stat boosters and Initiative improvement.


    The ECL 20 snapshot: Shadow Pounce only requires you to be able to make a melee attack against your intended target with a weapon in hand from wherever you teleport to, hence the whip. Between the immediate action Stand from Duskblade, the move action Shadow Stride from Martial Study, and various standard action choices like Shadow Walk; The Bat can teleport 3 times on her turn.

    So that means 3 Flurries of Swords (with her crossbow). 3 iterative attacks, plus rapid shot, plus the flurry attack makes 5, multiplied by a minimum of 5 (herself and 4 clones), multiplied again by 3 for each shadow pounce is a minimum of 75 attacks (or up to 120). About 30 of those should threaten and confirm between the high dex (+4 without items), decent BAB (+14), and +8 to hit from the SI. The Tentacle enchantment does not have the same wording restrictions as vorpal and is only a +3 equivalent but it does prompt a DC 21 Fort save to negate. Out of 30 triggers we'd expect that some brains are going to get ripped out by the Illithid enchantment and the thought of a bunch of bolts flying around with little tentacles writhing around stealing brains was funny to me.

    There's nothing stopping The Bat from using her weapon as an actual rapier, it just lacks the extra attack from rapid shot. On the off-chance that this didn't end the encounter, The Bat has now left at least 12 mirror images littered all over the battlefield, and between Blur from the SI and Shadow Blur The Bat should always have concealment. She also has 2 1st level Shadowlord spell slots for a bit of versatility.

    Spoiler: Sources
    Show
    PHB: Lots
    CoV: Darksong Knight
    CS: Skilled City-Dweller
    ECS: Dragonmarks
    EoE: Celestial Slayer
    MH: Weapon Enchantment
    RotW: Expeditious Dodge
    ToB: Martial Study, Maneuvers
    UA: Dirty Fighter, Thug
    UE: Telflammar Shadowlord
    Und: Weapon Enchantments
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  28. - Top - End - #88
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXIX

    "But why?" said the frog.
    "Lol," said the scorpion. "lmao."

    Quote Originally Posted by The Clawless Scorpion
    The Clawless Scorpion





    Chaotic Good
    Human
    Warblade 3/Duskblade 1/Fighter 4/ samurai 1/ Harmonious Paladin of Freedom 1/Lasher 3/Arcane Duelist 4/War Chanter 3


    Spoiler: Build Notes
    Show

    What does arcane duelist give you?

    Here's a list:
    Enchant a chosen weapon
    Cha to AC
    Dexterous attack

    Blur
    false keenness,
    mirror image, and
    flurry of non-lethal duplicates.

    I've bolded the the class abilities that will be leveraged by this build, and I changed the font size for the one ability that we are trying to pump up to the stratosphere.

    But the opportunity costs. The class doesn’t advance your arcane pre-requisites, while demanding a high BAB and lackluster feats, which it then goes on to defiantly not support! Why is the duelist low BAB?

    The amount of leverage you can get out of Dexterous attack is based on BAB.

    So this class offers the ungodly ability to trade damage dealt for an increase in your ability to hit. And this sliding attack scale ability has a number of built in feat supports: power attack, combat expertise, Shocktrooper, etc. So, if we can subtract an ungodly amount of damage from a weapon but modify our attack roll for the purpose of gaining back more damage than we subtracted, we could create a damage cantilever of sorts.

    So the balancing act here is making something so impressive that you can ignore what the build doesn’t choose to use from the arcane duelist. And, for what optimization reasoning can recompense the ignoring of 4/7ths of the class’s abilities?

    We need full BAB, or at least as close to it that we can get. Because each BAB is sacred in this build. Because that is the fuel that feeds dexterous attack.

    To make this work, we’ll need a weapon.

    Not just any weapon.

    A melee weapon that can have up to 18 points of damage subtracted from it and still be formidable. Besides upgrading weapon sizes (how gauche), there are two weapons capable of fulfilling the promise of this attack bonus zipline: the battering ram siege engine and Sandstorm’s scorpion tail whip.

    The battering ram requires a team of 8 and a stationary target. The team of 8 is supplied by the level 10 ability, but making your target stationary seems like too much effort.

    The scorpion tail whip only requires a feat.


    Spoiler: abilities
    Show

    Abilities
    Initial Level 4
    Level 8 Level 12 Level 16 Level 20
    Str 14 14 15 16 17 18
    Dex 14 14 14 14 14 14
    Con 14 14 14 14 14 14
    Int
    14 14 14 14 14 14
    Wis 8 8 8 8 8 8
    Cha 15 16 16 16 16 16




    Spoiler: Table
    Show



    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Reflex Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st Warblade (ToB p20) 1 2 0 0 Perform (oratory) (+4 CC) 2; Use Rope (+4 CC) 2; Balance (+4) 4; Martial Lore (+4) 4; Concentration (+2) 2; Dodge, Combat Exptertise Battle clarity (Reflex saves), weapon aptitude, 3 maneuvers, 1 stance
    2nd Skilled City Dweller (Cityscape Web) Duskblade (PHB2 p19) 2 4 0 2 Perform (oratory) (+1 CC) 2.5; Use Rope 2; Knowledge (religion) 1 (+1) 1; Balance 4; Martial Lore 4; Concentration (+1) 3; Arcane attunement, armored mage (light), 3 0 level arcane spells, 2 1st level
    3rd Skilled City Dweller Samurai (CW p8) 3 6 0 2 Perform (oratory) (+1 CC) 3; Use Rope 2; Knowledge (religion) 1 1; Balance 4; Martial Lore 4; Concentration (+1) 4; Exotic Weapon proficiency (Bastard Sword), Allied Defense (Shining South p19) Daisho Proficiency
    4th skilled City Dweller Fighter 1 4 8 0 2 Perform (oratory) (+1 CC) 3.5; Use Rope 2; Knowledge (religion) 1 1; Balance 4; Martial Lore 4; Handle Animal (+2) 2; Concentration 4; Weapon focus (bastard sword) Bonus feat, tower shield proficiency
    5th Fighter 2 5 9 0 2 Perform (oratory) (+1 CC) 4; Use Rope 2; Knowledge (religion) 1 1; Balance 4; Martial Lore 4; Handle Animal (+2) 4; Concentration 4; Mobility Bonus feat
    6th Lasher 1 (S&F p25) 6 9 2 2 Perform (oratory) (+1 CC) 4.5; Use Rope (+1) 3; Knowledge (religion) 1 1; Balance (+2) 6; Martial Lore 4; Handle Animal 4; Concentration 4; Power attack Whip sneak attack +1d6, close combat, wound, whip lash
    7th Lasher 2 7 9 3 2 Perform (oratory) (+1 CC) 5; Jump (+1) 1; Use Rope (+1) 4; Knowledge (religion) 1 1; Balance (+2) 8; Martial Lore 4; Handle Animal 4; Concentration 4; Improved Trip Improved trip, third hand
    8th Arcane Duelist 1 (Web) 7 9 5 4 Perform (oratory) (+2) 7; Jump (+1) 2; Tumble (+1) 1; Use Rope 4; Knowledge (religion) 1 1; Balance (+1) 9; Martial Lore 4; Handle Animal 4; Concentration 4; Spot (+2) 2; Chosen weapon, Enchant chosen weapon +1
    9th Arcane Duelist 2 8 9 6 5 Perform (oratory) (+2) 9; Jump (+1) 3; Tumble (+1) 2; Use Rope 4; Knowledge (religion) 1 1; Balance (+1) 10; Martial Lore 4; Handle Animal 4; Concentration 4; Spot (+2) 4; Leap Attack (CAdv p110) Apparent defense
    10th Arcane Duelist 3 8 10 6 5 Perform (oratory) (+2) 11; Jump (+1) 4; Tumble (+1) 3; Use Rope 4; Knowledge (religion) 1 1; Balance (+1) 11; Martial Lore 4; Handle Animal 4; Concentration 4; Spot (+2) 6; Dexterous attack
    11th Arcane Duelist 4 9 10 7 6 Perform (oratory) (+2) 13; Jump (+1) 5; Tumble (+1) 4; Use Rope 4; Knowledge (religion) 1 1; Balance (+1) 12; Martial Lore 4; Handle Animal 4; Concentration 4; Spot (+2) 8; Enchant chosen weapon +2
    12th Harmonius Knight Paladin of Freedom (CoVweb &UA) 10 12 7 6 Perform (oratory) 13; Jump 5; Craft (Leatherworking) (+3) 3; Tumble 4; Use Rope 4; Knowledge (religion) 1 1; Balance 12; Martial Lore 4; Handle Animal (+2) 6; Concentration 4; Spot 8; Stone Power (ToB p32) Aura of good, inspire courage +1, smite evil 1/day
    13th War Chanter (CW p87) 11 14 7 6 Perform (oratory) 13; Jump (+1) 6; Craft (Leatherworking) (+1) 4; Tumble 4; Use Rope 4; Knowledge (religion) 1 1; Balance (+2) 14; Martial Lore 4; Handle Animal 6; Concentration (+1) 5; Spot 8; Gather information (+2) 2; Inspire toughness, war chanter music
    14th War Chanter 12 15 7 6 Perform (oratory) 13; Jump (+1) 7; Craft (Leatherworking) (+1) 5; Tumble 4; Use Rope 4; Knowledge (religion) 1 1; Balance (+2) 16; Martial Lore 4; Handle Animal 6; Concentration (+1) 6; Spot 8; Gather information (+2) 4;
    15th War Chanter 13 15 8 7 Perform (oratory) 13; Jump (+1) 8; Craft (Leatherworking) (+1) 6; Tumble 4; Use Rope 4; Knowledge (religion) 1 1; Balance (+2) 18; Martial Lore 4; Handle Animal 6; Concentration (+1) 7; Spot 8; Gather information (+2) 6; Battlebred (PGtE p122) Inspire recklessness
    16th Fighter 3 14 15 9 8 Perform (oratory) 13; Jump 8; Craft (Leatherworking) (+1) 7; Tumble (+2) 6; Use Rope 4; Knowledge (religion) 1 1; Balance 18; Martial Lore 4; Handle Animal (+2) 8; Concentration 7; Spot 8; Gather information 6; -
    17th Fighter 4 15 16 9 8 Perform (oratory) 13; Jump 8; Craft (Leatherworking) (+1) 8; Tumble (+2) 8; Use Rope 4; Knowledge (religion) 1 1; Balance 18; Martial Lore 4; Handle Animal (+2) 10; Concentration 7; Spot 8; Gather information 6; Improved expertise (CW p100) Bonus feat
    18th Lasher 3 16 17 9 9 Perform (oratory) 13; Jump (+1) 9; Craft (Leatherworking) 8; Tumble 8; Use Rope (+2) 6; Knowledge (religion) 1 1; Balance (+2) 20; Martial Lore 4; Handle Animal 10; Concentration 7; Spot 8; Gather information 6; Karmic strike Crack of fate
    19th Warblade 17 18 9 9 Perform (oratory) 13; Jump (+1) 10; Craft (Leatherworking) 8; Tumble (+1) 9; Use Rope 6; Knowledge (religion) 1 1; Balance (+1) 21; Martial Lore (+1) 5; Handle Animal 10; Concentration (+1) 8; Spot 8; Gather information 6; Knowledge (Local) (+2) 2; Uncanny dodge, 1 maneuver known
    20th Warblade 18 18 10 10 Perform (oratory) 13; Jump (+1) 11; Craft (Leatherworking) 8; Tumble (+1) 10; Use Rope 6; Knowledge (religion) 1 1; Balance (+1) 22; Martial Lore (+1) 6; Handle Animal 10; Concentration (+1) 9; Spot 8; Gather information 6; Knowledge (Local) (+2) 4; Battle ardor (critical confirmation), 1 maneuver known


    Maneuvers for levels 1-18
    Stone Bones (ToB p84)
    Sudden Leap (ToB p89)
    Steal Wind (ToB p69)

    Stance
    Punishing Stance (ToB p69)

    Maneuvers for levels 19-20
    Iron Heart Surge (ToB 68)
    Manticore Parry (ToB p69)

    Spells for Levels 2-20
    Level 0
    Acid Splash
    Disrupt undead
    Ray of frost

    Level 1
    Color spray
    Truestrike


    Spoiler: Sources
    Show
    Classes
    Sources Page Prereqs Notes
    Warblade Tome of Battle 20 - -
    Duskblade PHB 2 19 - -
    Skilled City Dweller Cityscape WEB - Trade Ride for Tumble
    Samurai Complete Warrior 8 - Trade Ride for Tumble
    Fighter Core - Trade Ride for Tumble
    Lasher Sword and Fist 35 BAB +5, Use Rope 2, Craft (leatherworking) 2, Weapon Focus (Whip), Exotic Weapon Proficiency: (Whip), The lasher must own a whip or whip dagger. un-updated 3.0 Source. Qualifies through warblade weapon aptitude class ability to switch exotic weapon pro/weapon focus from bastard sword to scorpion whip.
    Arcane Duelist WEB BAB +6, Perform 5, Tumble 5, Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Proficiency (rapier, short sword, dagger), Able to cast 1st-level arcane spells. un-updated 3.0 Source
    Paladin Core - -
    Paladin of Freedom Unearthed Arcana 53 - Change alignment to CG
    Harmonious Knight Substitution Level Champions of Valor (WEB) must worship milil, needs 1 rank in k. religion Add perform, d10HD, inspire courage 1/day instead of detect evil
    War Chanter Complete Warrior 87 BAB +4 Alignment: Any nonlawful Skills: Perform (sing) 6 ranks or Perform (oratory) 6 ranks Feats: Combat Expertise, Weapon Focus Special: Able to use the inspire courage bardic music ability.



    Feats
    Sources Page Prereqs Notes
    Dodge Core - Dex 13
    Mobility Core - Dodge, Dex 13
    Power Attack Core - Str 13
    Combat Expertise Core - Int 13
    Exotic Weapon proficiency Core - BAB +1 Granted by Samurai Class
    Allied Defense Shining South 19 Combat Expertise
    Weapon Focus Core - BAB +1, Proficiency in weapon
    Improved Trip Core - Combat expertise, Int 13 Expertise prereq waved by Lasher class
    Leap Attack Complete Adventurer 110 Power Attack, Jump 8 ranks
    Stone Power Tome of Battle 32 STR 13, 1 stone dragon maneuver
    Battlebred Player's Guide to Eberron 122 BAB +6
    Improved Combat Expertise Complete Warrior 100 Combat expertise, Int 13, BAB 6+
    Karmic Strike Complete Warrior 102 Combat Expertise (PH) , Dodge (PH), DEX 13

    Spoiler: The pincer blades hold, the tail strikes!
    Show

    ECL 5

    The earliest entry into arcane duelist from brute forcing the perform skill per-requisite is Character Level 8.

    This build has to prioritize BAB for one big reason, and we want to spread out our expansive feat wishlist to get this build cranking. Of our full bab base classes, duskblade gives native access to arcane casting of first level spells (arcane duelist pre-req) while also not tying up your class levels angling for better casting. All duskblade is doing here is fulfilling that req. We can ignore its prohibitions on casting in armor, we won’t be casting much.

    Warblade has 4 skill points to multiply at first level, so we prioritize that. We grab a stone dragon maneuver for the express purpose of taking stone power somewhere later in the build. And, with weapon aptitude, we can squeeze the free exotic weapon proficiency of the CW samurai into a scorpion tail whip. Later we’ll do the same with weapon focus in order to qualify for lasther. We’ll use weapon aptitude to move both exotic weapon proficiency and weapon focus with the bastard sword over to the scorpion tail whip. I wish that i could say that samurai could give us more, but, as we all know, it cannot.

    Two more BAB with the fighter levels, picking up pre-requisite fighter bonus feats for the prestige classes later. All of our levels are using the urban skills ACF from cityscape to trade ride for tumble. Fighter might benefit from trading away for hit and run fighter, but I think this build can do well in heavy armor.

    This can survive 5 levels and contribute meaningfully to combat.

    Here’s the set up:
    5 BAB
    1st level casting, including color spray for early levels and truestrike opportunistically for all others.
    Dodge, mobility, expertise, exotic weapon pro, weapon focus and allied defense (bolded items are pre-reqs)
    Lame zero level SLAs
    Sudden leap as a leap attack feat enhancer later
    A few other nice maneuvers
    Scorpion tail whip. Which, I think we should finally address.


    WHIP, SCORPION-TAIL - SANDSTORM (3.5) Exotic One-Handed Melee Weapon [Nonlethal, Reach-15] Cost: 75 gp
    Damage (s): 1d33 Damage (m): 1d43
    Critical: x2 (Lethal + Poison)
    Weight: 3 lb
    Type: P or S
    A scorpion-tail whip is made from the dried tail of a Large monstrous scorpion, with the stinger intact. Used by some of the crueler desert tribes, the whip deals nonlethal damage except on a critical hit. On a critical hit, the whip deals lethal damage and injects a small amount of Large monstrous scorpion venom (injury, Fortitude DC 18, initial and secondary damage 1d6 Str), which is stored in a small bladder in the stinger. The bladder can hold only one dose at a time, and adding a dose of venom takes 1 minute. The whip can hold any other contact or injury poison.


    The table says that it deals 1d43. The text doesn’t address it, and sandstorm had no errata. That is enough damage dice to absorb the totality of what BAB we subtract using dextrous attack.

    I’ve run this a thousand times in my head, and I think that some people might be under the impression that the game designers did not intend for the scorpion tail whip to deal 1d43 damage.

    The number one way for such a naythinker to prove that this is an errant typo, some sort of nonlethal superscripting error. And this is a very compelling point.

    Errata could fix this for sure. But, this is the stinger of a Large Monstrous scorpion, which deals 1d6 damage on the stat block. So obviously, the game designers wanted to shift what kind of damage the scorpion tail whip dealt from 1d6 lethal to 1d43 nonlethal.

    The naysayer gets frustrated on this wall of refutation. And they may be willing to settle on the practical limits of this as evidence for how this interpretation is wrong.

    They will point out that 1d43 doesn’t exist.

    At this point, you must negotiate that if you can find a 1d43, you can use this weapon in the game, no takesbacksies.

    First, you pull out that graphing calculator that you stole from your highschool and punch in the random number generator commands that you remember from 20 years ago when you had to work around that time there wasn't enough dice.

    The naysayer will stop you. This is ok. This allows them to think that they’ve defeated your shenanigans.

    They will argue something along the lines of “You said you would find a die, not a digital random number generator. This entire premise requires that you find a d43”

    Fair enough.

    Then you show them this.



    That, my friends, is a 43 sided die. You roll it like a log. The round ends keep it from landing on a 44th or 45th side. Because it has 43 sides, the topmost facet is always a peak. The arrows always point towards the facet that you read.

    Therefore, the Scorpion-Tail whip is legal at 1d43 damage for medium characters because there is, in fact, a die that can be bought to support its existence.

    But the scorpion-tail whip might not be admissible for entry into lasher. But it’s a whip, it should work. If you want to dock more than a whole point of elegance for that, consider that a flaw spent on a redundant Exotic whip proficiency at first level maxes out at a 1 point penalty.

    The scorpion tail whip is a perfect weapon for an arcane duelist with power attack because 1d43-18 + 36 from power attacking with two hands doubles the power attack returns.

    Which brings us to the war affiliation in complete champion. This affiliation is necessary to ramp this up another level: Check out page 44



    An opportunity to triple your power attack returns once per day! 1d43 -18 +54
    But it looks like you can double your combat expertise returns too, which is great, because we took that feat as well.


    Spoiler: Where there’s a whip, there’s a way
    Show

    ECL 10

    Two levels of lasher and 3 levels of arcane duelist.

    Lasher is a well designed prestige class. It grants the ability to deal lethal damage with your whip, which means that on a critical hit, your whip is double lethal. Im not sure what that means, nor do i have to because im not taking enough levels of arcane duelist to have to figure it out. working up to false keenness sacrifices too much BAB and thus hinders our dextrous attack optimization.

    Lasher also grants improved trip, Sneak attack +1d6, close combat, whip-lash, and third hand.

    Third hand is cool because it is attack roll based. Therefor you can do even wilder stuff than was imagined here. DC 20 brings a 20lb object to your hands as a move action, with truestrike on standby, you should be able to use that whip for some crazy stuff like give your opponent an exploding cigar and lighting it, or tying their shoelaces together.

    Arcane duelist starts cool, with the exception of having half BAB and literally no casting support. Choose any weapon. No proficiency necessary. Then make it magic. Then at level 2 add charisma to AC. Nice

    Then dextrous attack. We now have three more great feats: power attack, leap attack, and improved trip. With the War Affiliation, that means we can get quadruple returns on a leap attack power attack with two hands, plus we took that sudden leap boost from that single level of warblade like 9 levels ago and invested in the jump skill to keep the fun going.


    Spoiler: promenade à deux
    Show

    ECL 15


    We can now enchant our scorpion whip with a +2 enhancement bonus, and we get our second point of BAB from arcane duelist. From here, we make a departure.

    There is no reason that a paladin of freedom cannot belong to the harmonious order and therefor take the substitution level that grants inspire courage as a replacement for the never ever problematic detect evil. Most importantly though, paladin offers a full point of BAB and the sub level allows us to have the prerequisites for Complete warrior’s war chanter.

    War chanter offers full bab, and like arcane duelist, nearly demands that you take levels in a casting class only to abandon support for that pre-requisite later.

    We are really in war chanter for a single reason, its third level ability: inspire recklessness.

    Inspire Recklessness (Su): A War chanter of 3rd level or higher with 12 or more ranks in any Perform skill can use her song or poetics to inspire an often dangerous, but very effective, ferocity in one of her allies within 60 feet (or in himself). The effect lasts for as long as the ally hears the war chanter sing and for 5 rounds thereafter. An affected ally (or the war chanter herself) is inspired to recklessness, gaining the ability to decrease her Armor Class by a number less than or equal to her base attack bonus and add the same number to her melee attack rolls as a morale bonus.
    On her action, before making any attack rolls in a round, the affected character must choose to subtract a number from her Armor Class and add the same number to all melee attack rolls (this number may be 0). The penalty to Armor Class and the bonus on attack rolls apply until the character's next action.
    This is a morale bonus that undoes your combat expertise in exchange for more bonuses to hit. But, at level 15, we pick up the feat that makes this ability kick up another notch. Battlebred.

    When you are subject to an effect that grants a morale bonus, the duration is extended by 2 rounds
    The morale bonus lasts until your next action and is contingent upon you choosing to take an armor class penalty.

    Let’s go nova and see what this arcane duelist can really do.

    • At level 15, you have 13 BAB.
    • You spent an hour training this morning to turn your bastard sword skills into scorpion-tail whip skills with weapon aptitude.
    • You spend a war chanter music as a standard action to inspire your own recklessness. This is cool because as you do that, you can use a move action to use your 3rd hand with the whip start some trouble with the people that you’re gonna leap attack.
    • Next round, activate your war affiliation power, tripling your power attack and doubling your combat expertise gains per unit of BAB sacrificed.
    • If you give up -13 to your AC, you gain a +13 morale bonus to your attack rolls, you can then spend 5 of that bonus on combat expertise to gain +10 AC.
    • You can spend 3 more of that bonus on activating stone power to gain 10 temp HP, due to language in stone power, it is treated as power attack by other effects, and thus is doubled from war domain affiliation.
    • You can spend 13 points of damage for another +13 to your attack roll with dextrous attack, and pair that with decreasing your attack roll by 13 to power attack, using two hands to swing, possibly using sudden leap maneuver to trigger the 10’ of horizontal movement necessitated by leap attack.


    In all, you lose 3 AC, but an adjacent ally gains 10AC from allied defense. You attack at something like +18 to hit, and you deal 1d43 -13+52

    40-82 damage. Nice.

    But next round, battlebred carries that morale bonus to your attack rolls for two more rounds, so you have a+13 morale bonus to your attack roll this round and the next, without having to sacrifice your AC. So if you full attack power attack with your 15’ reach lethal damage whip, you have something like a +29 to hit, so if you dumped another 5 for combat expertise and stone power, Thats 3 attacks at +19/+14/+9 of 1d43+39 damage, you and an ally gains +5 AC, and you gain another 10 temp HP.


    Spoiler: Sweet spot
    Show

    Level 18
    With the addition of two more fighter levels and our final level of lasher, we pick up improved combat expertise, karmic strike, and crack of fate.

    This allows us to deduct our full bab for combat expertise. And we get one attack of opportunity for someone who attacks us. The crack of fate adds an extra attack to our formidable routine. Karmic strike is a bit of a fill in.

    Empower supernatural ability is the better feat to place here, as it is reasonable to conclude that inspire recklessness is a variable numeric ability. But elegance is a thing. Apparently.


    Spoiler: ECL 20
    Show

    Uncanny dodge and a couple high level maneuvers. And it’s level 20 anyways who cares about xp penalties at this part of the game. And that’s that.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  29. - Top - End - #89
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Dec 2012

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXIX

    Not my sword. Our sword.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azumi
    Azumi
    Legendary Duelist of the Valaes Tairn

    Background:
    Azumi was born into the Valaes Tairn (warclan of mercenary elves) that annexed the land of Valenar. The sole thing she knows in life is the battlefield. At her birth the Keepers of the Past discovered in her sings that she would inherit the will of her legendary duelist ancestor Kaliya. This set the course for her life. Even her childhood games have been all about warfare (fighting with sticks, dueling, ...). As all Velenar elves, she tries to live up to the ideal set by her patron ancestor and to become a Legendary Duelist one day like her.

    While she shows some arcane talent, she can barely use it. But the same was said about Kaliya (that she sole used minor magic to enhance her combat), so there is that. Due to the constant time on the battlefield even at young age, she didn't have much time to focus on her arcane powers. Sometimes she feels the urge to delve more into magic to be a bit more like her parent ancestor, but then the next battlefield calls and a new battle begins..


    Stats:

    Race: Wood-Elf (+2 STR -2 INT; Monster Manual I)
    Alignment: C-N
    Region: Valenar
    Quote Originally Posted by Player's Guide to Eberron
    A Valenar elf receives the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the shortbow (including composite shortbow), scimitar, and Valenar double scimitar. This replaces the elf weapon proficiency racial trait described in the Player's Handbook.
    STR: 20 (+5 from lvlUp; ideally +5 Whish & +6 item = 36 max possible)
    DEX: 12
    CON: 10
    INT: 12
    WIS: 8
    CHA: 12



    Skills:
    Requirements for Revenant Blade: Hide 5 ranks , Knowledge (history) 2 ranks , Move Silently 5 ranks
    Requirements for Arcane Duelist: Perform 5 ranks, Tumble 5 ranks

    The build has a lot of skill requirements while also barely getting points from the classes. Especially Perform as cross class skill delays Arcane Duelist to a min. of 8th lvl (I did delay it even one lvl further to have access to Imp. Critical and Great Cleave via Floating Feats).

    The main skills are Jump and Tumble to help her in combat. Jump to get over difficult terrain while charging and Tumble to avoid AoO.
    Balance and Escape Artist get some spare points, since those are situational important for a melee combatant.
    Hide and Move Silently also get some leftover points.

    Spoiler: Table & Leveling Overview
    Show

    Level Class BAB For Ref Wil Skills
    *= cross class
    Feats Class Features
    1st Ranger

    Skilled City-Dweller
    (Cityscape)
    (To get Tumble as class skill)

    Arcane Hunter
    (Complete Arcane)
    +1 +2 +2 +0 Concentration: 4
    Hide: 4
    Jump: 4
    Knowledge (history): 2*
    Move Silently: 4
    Perform: 2*
    Tumble: 4
    TWF Favored Enemy (arcanists)

    Track

    Wild Empathy
    2nd Fighter +2 +4 +2 +0 Hide: 4.5*
    Move Silently: 4.5*
    Perform: 2.5*
    Weapon Focus**
    (Valenar Double Scimitar)
    Bonus Feat**
    3rd Fighter +3 +5 +2 +0 Hide: 5*
    Move Silently: 5*
    Perform: 3*
    Dodge**
    Power Attack
    Bonus Feat**
    4th Duskblade
    (PHB II)
    +4 +7 +2 +2 Concentration: 6 (+2)
    Perform: 3.5*
    Arcane Attunement

    Armored Mage (light)
    5th Barbarian

    Spiritual Totem:
    Lion Totem
    (Complete Campion)

    Skilled City-Dweller
    (Cityscape)
    +5 +9 +2 +2 Perform: 4*
    Jump: 6 (+2)
    Tumble: 6 (+2)
    Pounce

    Rage 1/day
    6th Revenant Blade

    (Player's Guide to Eberron)
    +6 +9 +2 +4 Perform: 4.5*
    Jump: 9 (+3)
    Tumble: 6.5*
    Mobility Ancestral guidance (1)

    Hero of the Valaes Tairn

    Ranger Class Features
    7th Revenant Blade +6 +9 +2 +5 Perform: 5*
    Jump: 10
    Tumble: 8* (+3)
    Shadow of the Past
    8th Revenant Blade +7 +10 +3 +5 Jump: 11
    Tumble: 10* (+4)
    Ancestral guidance (2)
    9th Arcane Duelist +7 +10 +5 +7 Balance: 2 (+2)
    Jump: 12
    Tumble: 12 (+2)
    Imp. Unarmed Strike Chosen Weapon

    Enchant Chosen Weapon +1
    10th Arcane Duelist +8 +10 +6 +8 Balance: 5 (+3)
    Jump: 13
    Tumble: 13
    Apparent Defense
    11th Arcane Duelist +8 +11 +6 +8 Escape Artist: 3 (+3)
    Jump: 14
    Tumble: 14
    Dexterous Attack
    12th Arcane Duelist +9 +11 +7 +9 Escape Artist: 6 (+3)
    Jump: 15
    Tumble: 15
    Roundabout Kick
    (Complete Warrior)
    Enchant chosen weapon +2
    13th Arcane Duelist +9 +11 +7 +9 Escape Artist: 9 (+3)
    Jump: 16
    Tumble: 16
    Blur
    14th Arcane Duelist +10 +12 +8 +10 Escape Artist: 12 (+3)
    Jump: 17
    Tumble: 17
    Enchant chosen weapon +3
    15th Arcane Duelist +10 +12 +8 +10 Escape Artist: 15 (+3)
    Jump: 18
    Tumble: 18
    Imp. Bullrush False Keenness
    16th Arcane Duelist +11 +12 +9 +11 Escape Artist: 18 (+3)
    Jump: 19
    Tumble: 19
    Enchant chosen weapon +4
    17th Arcane Duelist +12 +13 +9 +11 Balance: 6
    Escape Artist: 20 (+2)
    Jump: 20
    Tumble: 20
    Mirror Image
    18th Arcane Duelist +13 +13 +10 +12 Balance: 8 (+2)
    Escape Artist: 21
    Jump: 21
    Tumble: 21
    Shock Trooper
    (Complete Warrior)
    Flurry of Swords
    19th Revenant Blade +14 +13 +10 +13 Hide: 6
    Jump: 22
    Move Silently: 6
    Tumble: 22*
    Giant Slayer
    20th Revenant Blade +15 +13 +10 +13 Hide: 7
    Jump: 23
    Move Silently: 7
    Tumble: 23*
    Ancestral Guidance (3)
    Legendary Force

    Duskblade spells:

    0th: 3/day
    - Acid Spash
    - Touch of Fatigue

    1st: 2/day
    - Chill Touch
    - Stand (always good as melee character)

    Recommended Gear:

    Chosen Weapon: Valenar Double Scrimitar (Eberron Campaign Setting) +4 + aptitude (Tome of Battle) + valorous (unapproachable east)
    Since the SI is themed about having "your personal weapon", I hope that a lil dependency on "Aptitude" to get "Roundabout Kick" to work should be acceptable. Valorous provides a charge/pounce multiplier.
    = 125g base cost + 2x 300g masterwork + 2x 72,000g (effectively a +6 weapon)
    = 125g + 600g + 144,000g
    = 144,725g
    Still cheaper than a single +10 weapon (200,000g), and we are emulating effectively two "+10 weapons".

    Tiger Claw Bracers: With these cheap bracers we can get access to the Sudden Leap maneuver. This gives us 1/encounter a swift action movement to reposition. Good that we have maxed jump & tumble. (Tome of Battle)

    Anklet of Translocation: Not as good as the Tiger Claw Bracers since only 2/day and limited to 10ft, but still a cheap and very effective upgrade to find a good spot to charge on the battlefield. (MIC)

    Item to Fly: As full melee build, Azumi relies on (any) magic items to reach flying enemies. If she gets access to fly, she can make diving/pounce attacks and gets a(nother) charge multiplier (x3 together with a valorous weapon)


    Levels:

    1-5
    Azumi has a deep connection to her Valenar Double Scimitar (Bladebearer of Velenar, Weapon Focus), a doubleweapon that is quite impressive (d6/d6 18-20/x2). The early lvl focus on the requirements for the PRCs while maintaining full BAB and high HP.
    Power Attack and TWF will ensure that she hits hard (with a +5 STR modifier).
    While Azumi barely has/gets some arcane magic herself (Duskblade), she knows how devastating enemy caster can be and thus start to hate em (because they can use their magic so easily!^^). Thus they are her favored enemy (arcanists).
    She also has a tendance to Rage once in a while, but she is afraid of going that road deeper (no further progress) and losing totally her mind, like some others do.

    6-10
    Ancestral Guidance gives us Floating Feats which allow us to bypass requirements and gets us Improved Critical (Valenar Double Scimitar) at lvl6 (!). With the second Floating Feat we get Great Cleave which further increases our attacks per turn made.
    The feats are just requirements for PRC and other feats.
    Shadow of the Past gives a bonus to Move Silently and Hide. Since we have not many points in those skills, it's just a nice to have.
    She further enhances her bound to her double scimitars (chosen weapon). Note that the ability targets the entire weapon and not sole one half. The ability has no connection to the crafting rules (which have specific rules for double weapons) and thus enhances the entire weapon (both ends).
    Apparent Defense gives us a lil AC boost.

    11-15
    Dexterous Attack and Enchant Weapon helps to hit with iterative attack while using Power Attack (still no Shock Trooper). False Keenness stacks with our Improved Critical ability to increase the threat range of our double scimitars to 9-20 = 60%
    If we add Roundabout Kick, we are looking at the 60% chance for an extra attack. With Pounce and Great Cleave anything in range should drop.
    Due to the extra attack on crits, False Keenness (+ possible Dexterous Attack) will always yield better results. Even if the dmg gets reduced to 1 on a crit, the extra attack makes it always worth it.
    Blur helps Azumi to stay alive if you should get focused before she can kill her enemies.

    16-20
    With Shock Trooper and Enchant Weapon +4 we should now always hit (if not crit) even with full Power Attack (+15).
    Mirror Image is a great defensive at-will ability that should be always on. Helps also against annoying caster that try to "target" her.
    The improved version, Flurry of Swords (FoS), is the nice icing for this build. We get another (in addition to TWF) attack at full BaB and all clones attack along with our attacks the same target. With this our dmg output skyrockets to the roof. While the ability is normally limited to a single target, we can bypass that limitation with the more specific Great Cleave rules. Note that FoS doesn't forbid extra attacks from other sources like e.g. Whirlwind does. Thus we can attack anything else in reach once our primary target dies. And with a 60% chance for a crit/extra attack we should have enough extra attacks together with Great Cleave to further keep killing stuff easily.
    With the Giant Slayer ability, we can finally play Dav- err... I mean Azumi vs Goliath^^. While giants are normally not the most common enemy, the dmg boost is still nice if the situation should occur.
    With Ancestral Guidance (3) we will pick mostly Weapon Specialization for a slight dmg boost for our double scimitars.
    Legendary Force is the capstone ability of the build and allows to treat both ends of the double scimitar as using em with 2h, thus 1.5x STR and 2x PA modifier. Combined with a possible x3 charge/pounce dmg multiplier, this is the final piece to really overkill even the meatiest (most HP) enemies you can find in the 3.5verse.

    Clones from Flurry of Swords:
    While all the talk about Azumi's dmg, we haven't talked about another aspect of the clones.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flurry of Swords
    Each image attacks the same opponent as the arcane duelist herself using the same bonuses as the arcane duelist, and any hits do subdual damage to the target.
    Since Azumi can switch targets via Great Cleave in her "flurry", so do the clones.
    While the clones only deal nonlethal dmg, for most enemies (without recovery methods) it won't make a difference. Don't forget that most enemies will already die from Azumi's own dmg. But if she should face some epic evil with absurd HP and/or DR, this would dramatically increase our dmg output per turn.




    Spoiler: Crunching Numbers
    Show
    Numbers: (@20 + gear)
    assuming:
    - a +4 valorous and adaptive Double Scimitar
    - +5 Whish & +6 item for STR
    - an option to fly


    Attacks per Round:
    max BAB: 15 = 3 regular attacks on a a full attack: +15/10/5
    + TWF = 4 attacks
    + Flurry of Swords = 5 attacks (not including any extra attacks from Gr. Cleave or Roundabout Kick)

    Attack Bonuses:
    = +15 BAB, +13 STR + 8 from weapon +1 from weapon focus
    = +37/+32/+27

    TWF or Flurry of Swords:
    = +35/+35/+30/+25

    TWF and Flurry of Swords:
    = +33/+33/+33/+28/+23


    Pounce/Dive dmg:

    = (d6 + (1.5xSTR) + (2 x PA) +4 weapon +4 chosen weapon +2 Weapons Specialization) x3 (valorous; flying)
    = (d6 + 1.5x13 + 2x15 + 4 + 4 + 2) x3
    = (d6 + 19 + 30 + 10) x3
    = (d6 + 59) x3
    = 3d6 + 177 dmg on non-crit; if it crits: (d6 + 59)x4 = 4d6 + 236


    Dexterous Attack + False Keenness
    = 6 + 59 -1
    = 64
    We can trade up to 64 dmg with Dexterous Attack to hit something. Due to charge multipliers, we end up with min 3 dmg. But, under normal circumstances we'll never need an additional +64 to hit. Especially with Shook Trooper taken into account (since this is a max lvl calculation), and the high STR and BaB (+15) the build features.

    False Keenness (FK) & Imp. Critical will ensure that all attacks will have a 60% chance to crit and produce an extra attack at the cost of -6 to hit. Against most enemies sole FK should be enough to still hit with the main attacks (see above). In most chases the enemies in reach should fall within your main attacks (2 with TWF or 3 if we add flurry) and the extra attacks produced by em (Roundabout Kick and Great Cleave). Abuse swift action movement (from gear) to change position once in the first round of combat to eliminate as many enemies as possible with clever repositioning.
    Imho, Dexterous Attack won't be necessary in most chases since the build has good attack bonuses. But let us still do some more math here:

    Combined together: ("x" = Dexterous Attack modifier; "2" from x2 Rapier critmultiplier)
    = -((X+2)x2)

    So, if we trade 64dmg and the attack crits, the crit dmg gets reduced by:
    = -((64 +2)x2)
    = -132

    While -132 dmg might look like a big deal (if the attack crits, otherwise we sole face the base -64 dmg) you have to remember that the crit give us an extra attacks back at the same BAB. The attack is basically for free when we crit, so any dmg the attack does (even sole 1) is a gain.

    But when will you need +64 to hit when having an attack routine of +33/+33/+33/+28/+23 (worst chase with TWF + Flurry). Even for the last Attack in line we should only need a fraction of the possible bonus to hit anything. And we face the higher penalty only when we crit, so non-crits don't suffer from the increased penalty.
    As benchmark, lets try to emulate the lacking +5 BAB compared to full BAB builds and also eliminate the penalties from TWF, Flurry (-2 each) and False Keenness (-6). And while we are at, we also do this for the iterative attacks. This would mean a -15 dmg penalty (before multipliers) for the 3 main attacks, -20 for the first iterative attack and -25 for the last attack.

    *note: calculation are still assuming x3 charge multiplier, thus on a crit the dmg gets multiplied by a total of x4 (dnd math!).

    Crit dmg with -15 penalty:
    = (d6 + 59 -15)x4
    = (d6 + 44)x4
    = 4d6 + 176 dmg

    Crit dmg with -20 penalty:
    = (d6 + 59 - 20)x4
    = (d6 + 39)x4
    = 4d6 + 156 dmg

    Crit dmg with -25 penalty:
    = (d6 + 59 - 25)x4
    = (d6 + 34)x4
    = 4d6 + 136 dmg

    Remember that we get free extra attacks for each crit, so despite the fact the we sacrificed a high bunch of "dmg bonus", we still do some notable free-dmg. And these dmg values still can one-shot most enemies a 20th lvl character would face, so that would mean additional extra attacks from Great Cleave.
    Additional attacks to proc more additional attacks. As said, most enemies should die within the attacks produced from the main attacks (full BaB) leaving you with a bunch of extra attacks from Gr. Cleave (mus be done with the same weapon), Roundabout Kick (must be done with unarmed strikes/aptitude weapon) and your iteratives at the end of the turn.
    So what to do with all those attacks left when all enemies in reach are dropped and you already did even make use of swift movement? End turn? No! The right answer would have been Shuriken! Despite the lack of proficiency (-4 attack penalty) still better than nothing. Azumi's high STR bonus does apply and magical Shuriken are cheap. Maybe invest into +1 Spellstoring Shuriken. Azumi could cast Chill Touch herself or let any friendly caster store some spells in them. Or, if you wanna be really cheesy, use +1(or more) Aptitude Shuriken to be able to make use of the extra attacks provided by Roundabout Kick. (note: non-aptitude Shuriken can sole be used for the iterative attacks).



    :END:
    I hope that you enjoyed how Azumi presents the SI and wish all cooks and judges GL & HF
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  30. - Top - End - #90
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Dec 2012

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXIX

    Did you think of Pinky first, or did you think of Gwynharwyf?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnarrrf
    Gnarrrf, the redeeming Mendicant

    Spoiler: Appetizer
    Show
    Background:
    Gnarrrf's egg was raided and sold on a slave market. There a necromancer has acquired him, since he thought this would make a good arcane house pet (Cohort !). Due to this, Gnarrrf lived most of his life serving his master in his dungeon. He barely got to see the outside world and only knew about it from the many books that the master has collected. His job was to command the undead servants when his "Master" (an old human) wasn't there. He was basically the housekeeper who kept everything running in the dungeon.
    While we are at the undead servants. While they obey Gnarrrf's commands (Rebuke/Control Undead), he doesn't really like em. They stink and are scary Gnarrrf thinks. But Master likes em, and Gnarrrf likes Master, so it's fine somehow.
    Gnarrrf dreams to go outside one day to see the world. But Master is against it and Master is more important.
    But after years, Master grew old. Sadly humans don't live that long and some day he died. Gnarrrf was now alone in the dungeon with those undead that he didn't really like. So he decides to leave his home and seeks out to find a new place to call home.
    Right after he left the dungeon and started to climb down the mountain, he found a lil monk settling. He decides to visit em to make his first friends outside of the dungeon. The monks welcome him and treat him very nice. They tell him the story of the land and how it has been suffering since decades from an undead plague. While their primary aim seems to be to steal some goods (mostly food and regular supplies) and not to kill the people (his master was C-N to C-E), they made life harsh and scary. Gnarrrf quickly draws the connection and is shocked and ashamed at the same time. He reveals his story and shows that he really feels guilty about all this. He didn't know... if he did, he would have never supported "Master"..
    He falls into a deep depression. One of the elder monks tries to help him and to give him a new purpose for his life. Gnarrrf wants to redeem himself and seeks guidance. The elder monk suggests to him to live the life of a mendicant. Gnarrrf accepts the suggestion and immediately makes a Sacred Vow to live in poverty (Vow of Poverty) and to dedicate his life to collects gold for the suffering people here in this region. He will also fight off any evil he sees and will always help those in needs.
    Finally he vows that he will never again use those evil powers (Sacred Vow) that are within him and that he will look for options to channel that "negative energy" (e.g. Rebuke Undead) into something good.
    This is the beginning of Gnarrrf's story to redeem himself for his past sins.

    (Note: Before anyone wants to complain, a redeeming ex villain is a valid archetype for exalted characters. ;)


    Disclaimer:
    This is a slightly overloaded build. I wanted to have a full VoP (taken at first lvl) build and had to pay for it (2 flaws). I'm willing to take the penalties and this is totally intentional. This may cost me some points, but that will be the price for the concept I wanna showcase here. I hope you still can enjoy my Vow of Poverty - Arcane Duelist build. I can only say that I love the concept^^.


    Spoiler: main dish
    Show
    Stats:

    Race: Jungle Kobold (dragon) (-4 Strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 Intelligence) (web-enhancement)
    Alignment: C-G
    Age: (venerable) Int, Wis, Cha all +3

    Lvl 1 <-> Lvl 20

    STR: 10 (+2 @lvl 7, 11, 15, 19) = 18
    DEX: 18
    (+2 @lvl 19) = 20
    CON: 10

    INT: 13 (+1 @lvl 4) = 14
    WIS: 16 (+1 @lvl 8, 12, 16, 20) (+2 @lvl 11, 15, 19) = 26
    CHA: 16 (+2 @lvl 15, 19) = 20

    Draconic Rite of Passage: Mage Armor:
    Usable 1/day. But thanks to the long duration (clvl/h) and the scaling clvl of this SLA (HD=caster lvl), it will soon cover most of the adventuring day. The +4 armor bonus stacks with all our other bonus AC sources and is thus the best choice here.



    Skills:
    The first 8 lvls are dedicated to prc skill requirements.
    After that, we focus mainly on Jump and Tumble for the extra mobility in combat (jump over difficult terrain, avoid AoO, Sudden Leap maneuver..).
    Spot is always a useful skill and thus also gets maxed later. And with our high WIS score, enemies will have a hard time to hide from our eyes.
    Concentration is mainly for the Power Surge uses. By maxing it, we can ensure almost 3 uses per day (3rd DC is 25 with +23 roll).
    Diplomacy get some spare points.

    Flaws: (# = feat from flaw)
    Shaky (-2 ranged attack rolls)
    Vulnerable (-1AC)

    Dread Necromancer 1 / Monk 2 / Crusader 1 / Swordsage 1 / Fighter 1 / Shou Disciple 2 / Kensai 2 / Arcane Duelist 10

    Level Class BAB For Ref Wil Skills

    * = cross class
    Feats
    # = Feats from Flaws
    * = Bonus Feat from Class
    + = Bonus Feat from VoP (all from BoED)
    Class Features

    ________

    VoP Features
    1st Dread Necromancer
    (Heroes of Horror)
    +0 +0 +0 +2 Concentration: 4
    Diplomacy*: 2
    Jump*: 2
    Dragonwrought: Radiant Dragon (+2 Spot)
    (Races of the Dragon)

    # Sacred Vow
    # Vow of Poverty

    + Nymph's Kiss
    Charnel Touch

    Rebuke undead
    ____________

    AC bonus +4 (exalted)

    + Exalted Bonus Feat
    2nd Monk (Cobra Strike) +0 +2 +2 +4 (+1P due to Nymph's Kiss from now on)

    Diplomacy: 3
    Tumble: 5 (+5)
    * Dodge

    + Touch of Golden Ice
    Unarmed Strike: d4

    * Bonus Feat

    Flurry of Blows

    Monk AC
    ____________

    + Bonus Exalted Feat
    3rd Monk (Cobra Strike)

    Invisible Fist
    (Exemplars of Evil)
    +1 +3 +3 +5 Concentration: 5
    Perform: 5 (+5)
    Travel Devotion
    (Complete Champion)

    * Mobility
    * Bonus Feat

    Invisible Fist
    ____________

    AC bonus +5 (exalted)

    Endure Elements
    4th Crusader
    (Tome of Battle)
    +2 +5 +3 +5 (INT: 14 now! +1P)

    Diplomacy: 5 (+5)
    Jump: 4 (+2)
    + Intuitive Attack Furious Counterstrike

    Steely Resolve 5

    Stance:
    Martial Spirit

    Maneuvers:
    Crusader's Strike
    Douse the Flames
    Leading the Attack
    Stone Bones
    Vanguard Strike
    ___________

    Exalted Strike +1 (magic)

    + Bonus Exalted Feat
    5th Unarmed Swordsage
    (Tome of Battle)
    +2 +5 +5 +7 Balance: 5 (+5)
    Ride: 4 (+4)
    Weapon Focus: (Tiger Claw)
    kukri, kama, claw, handaxe, greataxe, and unarmed strike
    Discipline Focus (Weapon Focus)

    Quick to Act +1

    Stance:
    Blood in the Water

    Maneuvers:
    Burning Blade
    Burning Brand
    Cloak of Deception
    Flashing Sun
    Sudden Leap
    Wolf Fang Strike
    ___________

    Sustenance
    6th Fighter +3 +7 +5 +7 Jump: 8 (+4)
    Ride: 5
    Versatile Unarmed Strike
    (PHB II)

    * TWF

    + Gift of Discernment
    * Bonus Feat
    ___________

    AC bonus +6 (exalted)

    Deflection +1

    + Bonus Exalted Feat
    7th Shou Disciple
    (Unapproachable East)
    +4 +9 +7 +7 Jump: 10 (+2)
    Tumble: 8 (+3)
    - ___________
    Resistance +1

    Ability Score Enhancement:
    +2 STR
    8th Shou Disciple +5 +10 +8 +7 Jump: 11
    Spot: 1
    Tumble: 11 (+3)
    * Combat Expertise
    + Sanctify Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike)
    Unarmed Strike: d6

    * Bonus Feat
    ___________

    Natural Armor +1

    Mind Shielding

    + Bonus Exalted Feat
    9th Kensai
    (Complete Warrior)
    +5 +10 +8 +9 Concentration: 12 (+7) Improved Dragon Wings
    (Races of the Dragon)
    Signature Weapon
    ___________

    AC bonus +7 (exalted)
    10th Kensai +6 +10 +8 +10 Concentration: 13
    Jump: 13 (+2)
    Spot: 5 (+4)
    + Vow of Abstinence Power Surge

    Keen (Unarmed Strike)
    x2 (both fists)
    ___________

    Exalted Strike +2 (good)

    Damage Reduction 5/Magic

    + Bonus Exalted Feat
    11th Arcane Duelist +6 +10 +10 +12 Jump: 14
    Spot: 8 (+3)
    Tumble: 14 (+3)
    - Chosen Weapon

    Enchant Chosen Weapon +1
    ___________

    Ability Score Adjustment:
    +4 STR; +2 WIS
    12th Arcane Duelist +7 +10 +11 +13 Jump: 15
    Spot: 13 (+5)
    Tumble: 15
    Improved TWF

    + Vow of Chasity
    Apparent Defense
    ___________

    AC bonus +8 (exalted)

    Deflection +2

    Greater Sustenance

    + Bonus Exalted Feat
    13th Arcane Duelist +7 +11 +11 +13 Jump: 16
    Spot: 16 (+3)
    Tumble: 16

    Concentration*: 14 (+2)
    - Dexterous Attack
    ___________

    Resistance +2

    Energy Resistance 5
    14th Arcane Duelist +8 +11 +12 +14 Jump: 17
    Spot: 17
    Tumble: 17

    Concentration*: 16 (+4)
    + Vow of Obedience Enchant Chosen Weapon +2
    __________

    Exalted Strike +3

    Freedom of Movement

    + Bonus Exalted Feat
    15th Arcane Duelist +8 +11 +12 +14 Jump: 18
    Spot: 18
    Tumble: 18

    Concentration*: 18 (+4)
    Power Attack Blur
    ___________

    AC bonus +9 (exalted)

    Ability Score Enhancement:
    +6 STR /+4 WIS /+2 CHA

    Damage Reduction 5/Evil
    16th Arcane Duelist +9 +12 +13 +15 Diplomacy: 7 (+2)
    Jump: 19
    Spot: 19
    Tumble: 19

    Concentration*: 19 (+2)
    + Defender of the Homeland Enchant Chosen Weapon +3
    _________

    Natural Armor +2

    + Bonus Exalted Feat
    17th Arcane Duelist +9 +12 +13 +15 Diplomacy: 9 (+2)
    Jump: 20
    Spot: 20
    Tumble: 20

    Concentration*: 20 (+2)
    - False Keenness
    _________

    Exalted Strike +4

    Resistance +3

    Regeneration
    18th Arcane Duelist +10 +12 +14 +16 Diplomacy: 11 (+2)
    Jump: 21
    Spot: 21
    Tumble: 21

    Concentration: 21 (+2)
    Roundabout Kick
    (Complete Warrior)

    + Nimbus of Light
    Enchant Chosen Weapon +4
    __________

    AC bonus +10

    Deflection +3

    True Seeing

    + Bonus Exalted Feat
    19th Arcane Duelist +10 +12 +14 +16 Diplomacy: 13 (+2)
    Jump: 22
    Spot: 22
    Tumble: 22

    Concentration: 22 (+2)
    - Mirror Image
    __________

    Ability Score Enhancement:
    +8 STR; +6 WIS; +4 CHA, +2 DEX

    Damage Reduction 10/Evil
    20th Arcane Duelist +11 +12 +15 +17 Diplomacy: 15 (+2)
    Jump: 23
    Spot: 23
    Tumble: 23

    Concentration*: 23 (+2)
    + Holy Radiance Flurry of Swords
    __________
    Exalted Strike +5

    Energy Resistance 15

    + Bonus Exalted Feat


    Spoiler: Snapshot --> 5
    Show

    Snapshot up to lvl 5:
    We start as Dread Necromancer who has basically sworn not to use his "evil" powers (negative energy, create/command undead). This will make the first level the hardest. Unless you can convince your DM that you start with 1xp before lvl2. Because as former cohort, you have been xp capped due to masters low leadership score^^

    Once we enter monk the biggest pain is behind us. Unarmed Strike + Flurry + Touch of Golden Ice will take care of most baddies ("evil") you come along. The Monk's WIS bonus to AC helps us together with the exalted AC bonus to stay naked. Did you know that Kobolds tend to run around naked? Clothes are uncomfortable! ^^
    Spoiler: Touch of Golden Ice: DC rules
    Show
    DC = 10 + 1/2 HD + CHA
    The DC of the Touch of Golden Ice ability follows the rules for SU abilities, since those are more specific than the Ravage itself. The ability doesn't cover your body with Golden Ice (which would be an indicator that the regular DC would apply), it ravages anything you touch directly (= gives you the a special ability. thus, the more specific SU rules apply). Due to the scaling, the ability's DC starts lower then usual, but quickly becomes stronger and remains a strong utility (against evil) over all levels.
    While BoED never mentions the type of save, it is assumed to be a Fortitude save since ravages are based on poisons.


    Exalted Strike (VoP) enhances our unarmed strikes and scales over the lvls. This will help with our low BAB and dmg.

    Travel Devotion gives us an option to "spent" (note: not use!) 2 Rebuke Undead charges without releasing negative energy. It's great over all levels to get swift action movement. Due to high CHA, we get enough charges to cover the entire day = "Full Attacks + Movement" for for all encounters in most chases. We start with a max of 4 uses per day (1base + 3 from 6 Rebuke Undead charges) and raises to 5/day (due to 8 RU charges from higher CHA score).

    Intuitive Attack shift our melee attack bonus to WIS, making it our main ability score.

    Invisible Fist gives us some option to become invisible for a round. Always handy for combat and even out of combat.

    Crusader and Swordsage provide us with some nice stances and maneuvers. The Martial Spirit stance is good early on for some lil heals to keep your party healthy. Later Blood in the Water is the better option, since it gives us a stacking +1 bonus to attack & dmg for each critical hit.

    Most notable maneuvers:
    Cloak of Deception - another option (see invisible fist) to become invisible for a round. combine for max efficiency.
    Flashing Sun - extra attack at the cost of -2 to hit (like flurry and stacks with flurry)
    Burning Blade - 1d6 +1/Initiator lvl extra fire dmg for a single turn. Nice dmg and also helps against some regenerating monsters.
    Burning Brand - extra reach and turns all dmg into fire for a single turn; the extra reach will come in handy on later lvls to kill more enemies in a single turn.
    Sudden Leap - another option for swift action movement; especially useful against difficult terrain.


    Spoiler: Snapshot -->10
    Show
    Snapshot up to lvl 10:
    Fighter and Shou Disciple provide use with some needed BAB and bonus feats.

    Versatile Unarmed Strike lets us enchant our Unarmed Strike (both fists as Signature Weapon!) with Keen via Kensai (to be able to let it stack with False Keenness later).

    We get a Deflection bonus and an increase in Natural Armor. Together with our growing exalted armor bonus this increases our AC heavily.
    Damage Reduction 5/magic is a nice additional defensive layer, if enemies should still somehow hit the lil Kobold.

    VoP also increases our Resistances (+1) which also scales over the levels. Combined with our high base saves our defense against magic, traps and special abilities has a good foundation.

    Gift of Discernment ensures that we will never break our vows unintentionally. We can predict the outcome (for our vows) as a free action. This can be abuse sometimes while role playing and interaction with NPCs.

    Mind Shielding helps us against evil casters who try to use magic to read his thoughts or alignment.

    As "dragon" we automatically qualify for anything that also requires dragonblood subtype (bypassing all requirements, since we "automatically qualify"). Don't misread it as sole ignoring (being a replacement for) the dragonblood requirement! That is not what it says.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonblood Subtype
    Dragons automatically qualify for any classes, prestige classes, racial substitution levels, feats, powers, or spells that require the dragonblood subtype.
    The rule is intended for "dragons" with RHD and +LA to give them easier access to dragonblood stuff. Only those who only have a fraction of dragon blood (dragonblood subtype) need to fulfill those requirements. Real "Dragons" bypass em.
    Thus, we can skip the regular Dragon Wings feat and go straight for the improved version. This helps to be more mobile and to engage flying enemies in melee combat.

    Power Surge is a bit limited in this build due to its movement action activation and 1 round duration. We can use it in combination with Wolf Fang Strike (standard action maneuver) to get at least 2 attacks with the increased STR. If you think that you can finish off the fight with 2 more strong blows, this is the option to end the combat. With the increased STR from VoP, we can get a temporary STR score of up to 26 for our lil Kobold.

    Spoiler: Snapshot -->15
    Show

    Snapshot up to lvl 15:
    Our weapon of choice as "Chosen Weapon" will be our Unarmed Strikes. Note that the ability enchants the entire weapon (all monk body parts due to the specific nature/rules of the ability) and not sole one fist. This ability doesn't refer to the crafting rules and the monk's Unarmed Strike ability is more specific here.
    The Enchant Chosen Weapon ability will nicely stack with our Exalted Strike ability. Since the +1 from Kensai will be overlapped from the Exalted Strike Ability, we are getting (@ LVL 20) up to +9 Keen Unarmed Strikes (both fists)(effectively +10 weapons).

    Apparent Defense helps our lil naked Kobold to build up even more AC. This is the MADest (multiple attribute dependent) build I've made so far I guess.

    Energy Resistance 5 helps us against natural hazards (acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic energy) and if any spells should have passed our high saves.

    Freedom of Movement always on is a great deal for a melee combatant. Now enemy casters will have an even harder time to stop the kobold.

    Dexterous Attack in an important tool for our lil Kobold since he has the lowest BAB possible for this build (do I get extra points for this??^^). Hitting stuff is always better than missing stuff. Even if sole for 1 dmg (which shouldn't be the chase normally). And if it crits (it helps to confirm the crit!), we get a stack of Blood in the Water that will help with the dmg over time.
    And last but not least, we have Touch of Golden Ice (against evil targets). The ability dmg will still stack on the enemies even if we sole do 1 dmg (or even 0 if the the enemy should have DR). As long as the enemy fails the save against the scaling DC we profit. This is perfect with the amount of extra attacks (and thus -2 penalties sources) this build has. Thus, no matter how you look at it, this build will make any attacks always matter.

    While we have a low BAB, Power Attack will still be useful for those low AC enemies that you can still encounter on higher lvls (e.g. caster). And with higher Blood in the Water stacks (when we have more then enough + overall attack bonus) we can start to trade the attack bonus back for dmg. Note that while PA needs to be declared for the enitre round, Dexterous Attack can be readjusted for each attack! This allows to readjust for iterative attacks or if you should attack targets with different ACs.

    Blur is a nice defensive option that has a good synergy with our lil Kobolds high AC.

    Spoiler: Snapshot -->20
    Show
    Snapshot up to lvl 20:
    "Regeneration", while not as strong as the MM version, is still nice to have some passive out of combat healing.

    True Seeing is another great tool for a melee build. Helps to see trough illusions and against annoying defenses like blur effects.

    False Keenness will stack with our Keen Unarmed Strikes, increasing our threat range up to 17-20 (effectively 20% chance to crit).
    While this is not much, with Imp. TWF, double Flurry (of Blows/Swords) + Flashing Sun we can have up to 8 attacks in our first turn of combat for maximum efficiency (including swift action movement^^!).
    Roundabout Kick in addition will give us a free attack for each crit. Blood in the Water stacks should now rise much more consistently each turn, increasing the dmg and attack bonus each turn. With the additional attack bonus, we can now lessen the Dexterous Attack, thus further increasing our dmg (back). (or increase Power Attack)

    The extra defense provided by the Mirror Images (and the Flurry of Swords) ability is just the icing on top of the high AC and saves of this build. Anything that tries to target us and/or requires a save will have a hard time stopping our lil radiant kobold.

    And with the extra dmg provided by the clones of the Flurry of Swords ability is just nuts. They will profit from our +9 unarmed strikes, the Blood in the Water stacks, Power Attack and the shier amount of (extra) attacks per turn in this build.


    Spoiler: dessert
    Show

    Final AC:
    = 10 base -1 Flaw + 2 Size + 5 Dex + 8 Wis + 5 Cha + 10 Exalted + 3 Natural + 3 Deflection + 4 Armor (magic armor)
    = 49 AC

    Notes on VoP:
    I haven't showcased each and every step of the scaling abilities in the snapshots to shorten the size of the post. Also I have skipped some minor abilities and haven't mentioned all the situational bonuses that most of the bonus exalted feats give for the same reason. I think that this is in the interest of us all to save time ;)
    Finally, if you wanna further munchkin VoP:
    "Gift of Discernment" is another great (free action!) tool to annoy the DM. You just need to be creative here. Be it for checking if it is fine if you help/befriend with an NPC and support his goals (which could reveal if he has evil intends or not on a simple yes/no basis). If you can sweet-talk your DM into these kind of things, you have a powerful tool that could bring this build maybe even near Tier 2 power range, what would be unheard of for a monk style build.

    Final Comment:
    We are looking at a fully self sufficient melee combatant who should hold his water in most scenarios. We have access to flying to reach flying enemies and have some pretty nasty Saves against most magic. We even have some immunities from being dragon (type) and from the vow of poverty.
    We managed to "expend" our Rebuke Undead charges into something good/neutral (Travel Devotion) to get the needed mobility for this build. Sudden Leap helps to fill the "gaps" here (short 1-2 round fights you won't need TD) or as backup if you should have run out of charges for Travel Devotion.
    We are looking at a pretty high AC and overall stats for being unarmored and having no magic items thx to clever VoP abuse. And most of the stuff is (EX), thus fully functional in an Anti Magic Field. We can maintain our mobility to full extend in an AMF where other builds may struggle. Imho this is the real strength of this VoP builds. As final note here: Flurry of Swords is also an EX ability, including the clones. This build can really shine in an AMF, since it doesn't lose that much compared to other builds in general.


    Thx for reading this monstrosity and I wish everybody good luck and a nice day.
    PS: Looking curiously forward for the reveal. I really enjoyed the SI this round.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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