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Thread: Immortal [PrC]

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    Default Immortal [PrC]

    The Immortal

    this highly trained fighter is a guardian, used to block the enemy at his tracks and forbid him from advancing, while not as destructive as other classes, the immortal, like their name suggests, are nearly impossible to kill, as they can take anything you throw at them.

    REQUIREMENTS

    Base Attack Bonus: +4
    Feats: Endurance, Diehard, Combat Expertise.
    Proficiency: Heavy armor, Tower Shields.

    Hit Die d12

    Skills: 4+Int for level.
    Class skills: Balance, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Gather Information, Heal, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Search, Sense Motive, Spot, Swim, Use Rope.

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Deathpoint

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |Fast Healing|-10

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |Fearless +2|-15

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Solid Stand|-15

    4th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Fearless +4|-20

    5th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Regrow Limbs|-20

    6th|
    +4
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Force March|-25

    7th|
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |True Fearless|-25

    8th|
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Magical Shunt|-30

    9th|
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Deathless|-30

    10th|
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Self Resurrection|-35[/table]


    Deathpoint:

    The Immortal can take hits harder then others would consider deadly and survive, deathpoint represent how many hitpoint does the immortal need to drop to before he truly dies (instead of the normal -10)

    Fast Healing:
    (Ex)
    Each round, an Immortal heals damage equal to his immortal class level.

    Fearless
    A second level Immortal gains a +2 moral bonus versus fear effects. this bonus increases to +4 at level 4. at level 7 the Immortal is completely immune to fear effect.

    Solid Stand:
    A third level Immortal gains +3 bonus on ability checks made to resist being bull rushed or tripped when standing on the ground (but not when climbing, flying, riding, or otherwise not standing firmly on the ground).

    Regrow Limbs: (Ex)
    Starting in 5th level, an Immortal can regrow lost limbs in 3d6 hours. only one limb can be regrown at a time, so if several are lost the immortal needs to grow them one by one. (he can choose the order.)

    Force March:
    A 6th level Immortal can make a force march special attack.
    As a full round action, if wielding a tower shield, he may advance in half speed in one direction, pushing away anything in a square he enters one square to the direction of the march, provoking no attacks of opportunity. each creature pushed by this is considered to be struck by a heavy shield bash. (multiple pushed on the same creature are doing several attacks.)

    Magical Shunt:
    (Su)
    Starting from 8th level every spell cast upon the Immortal have a chance to fail equal to the Immortal's class level. this include both friendly and hostile spells.
    The immortal can take a concentration check (DC= 20+immortal class level) to remove it for 1 round, this check takes a full round.

    Deathless: (Ex)
    When an effect is to take the 9th level Immortal to 0 hit points or lower (for example, massive damage or a death spell) instead the Immortal is lowered to 1 hit point, and the original effect is canceled.
    This ability can trigger only once every day for every six levels of Immortal. (so a level twelve immortal will trigger it twice.)

    Self Resurrection: (Su)
    A 10th level Immortal can resurrect himself if all of these conditions are met:
    -His body has not been disintegrated or devoured.
    -His soul is not trapped or destroyed.
    -He is dead for no more then a week.
    -He has not self-resurrected himself in a week.
    The resurrection take immediate effect and the immortal returns to life with 10 hit points.
    Last edited by boomwolf; 2007-12-09 at 06:16 AM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cormag81 View Post
    2117: No matter how good a debater I am out of character there is no way to logically get out of falling after your paladin kills his patron god.

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    Default Re: Immortal [PrC]

    You know... I actually like the consept very much.

    "Why" hack "can't" slash "you" squishy sound "die!!!!"

    I can so imagine it during a TPK.

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    Default Re: Immortal [PrC]

    I enjoy the idea of the class. It's well thought out, but I find it to be a bit powerful what with the Deathpoint and Fast Healing Ability. To calm it down a bit I would suggest Deathpoint increasing by 5 points every three level to a total of -30(which still might be too high), and the fast healing I would suggest to be usable once a day maybe increasing throughout the level progression. Or change the fast healing to Con mod or Cha mod. Other than that I enjoy the PrC and might use it in one of my games if you don't mind.

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    Default Re: Immortal [PrC]

    I see black knight esque villains in your future.
    Many thanks to Abardam for what is quite possibly the coolest avvie ever.

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    Default Re: Immortal [PrC]

    You're missing skill points per level, and a list of class skills.

    Also, I'm pretty sure most prestige classes are suppose to be designed to be entered by 6th level, whereas this one seems to be designed for entry at 5th level.

    Anyway, balance wise, even with a possible Fast Healing 10, it looks fine as is. The concept is cool and all, and so is not dieing, but I think you'll find that eventually the class would become rather useless and a drag for the party as a whole unless you gave it skill-monkey prowess. The thing is, the character who plays this doesn't die, sure, but he also doesn't contribute. The party doesn't need a guy who never dies and but can't accomplish anything. Heck, you're liable to be out-damaged by a straight fighter and that's saying something.

    Maybe give them a (6 + intelligence mod) skill point deal, so they have some other way of contributing besides standing there not dieing.

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    Default Re: Immortal [PrC]

    Well. the Immortal function best in armies (a phalanx of these guys is improbable to get by anytime soon.) where not everyone can be a high-powerful sorcerer/wizard, and nobody thinks of way to abuse feats. and then they are quite a problem to get by, and provide a sacry force to handle. (well. you can get in at level 5. so level 9 battalion of them means they are level 5 Immortals. nightmare military group.)

    In party's he is the security guard. making sure nobody GETS to the casters while they rain evocation (and others) on the field. and they can clear paths with the forced march (works best on narrow corridors or bridges.)

    Skills, I keep forgetting to put that up on every class I make. fixing now.
    Not much of a skill monkey, but has a handful of skills. most are physical work, but sense motive, listen/search/spot and intimidate/gather information are handy to have and heal is good to have if you are in low-magic setting.. he also have a not-too-bad amout of skillpoint for level.

    besides, think epic levels. even greater deathpoint and fast healing, this might turn to bee too much in the super-high levels. (say, level 25 Immortal. fast healing 25. deathpoint -70. silly powerful. and with that high hit die, even your wizard will find it troublesome to defeat him. ever.)

    In some way, he is anti-caster. because they might run out of spells before he runs out of hitpoints.

    I am afraid of turning it higher, and making it too good.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cormag81 View Post
    2117: No matter how good a debater I am out of character there is no way to logically get out of falling after your paladin kills his patron god.

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    Default Re: Immortal [PrC]

    Maybe you could add a few skills that took advantage of the Immortal's physical endurance? Say, you break a door without caring for your own health, +something to check and minus a few hitpoints?

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    Default Re: Immortal [PrC]

    I like this. I like this a lot.

    Evil Blackguards who just won't die. That bard who keeps coming back. That short, hairy monk, with claws that come out of his knuckles, who cannot be killed even by a cosmic being who was ruined in the third film.

    I like it a lot.
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    Default Re: Immortal [PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by boomwolf View Post
    Well. the Immortal function best in armies (a phalanx of these guys is improbable to get by anytime soon.) where not everyone can be a high-powerful sorcerer/wizard, and nobody thinks of way to abuse feats. and then they are quite a problem to get by, and provide a sacry force to handle. (well. you can get in at level 5. so level 9 battalion of them means they are level 5 Immortals. nightmare military group.)
    Ah, right, so they're powerful when fielded in mass quantities. That just brings the running count up to All Classes + Immortals now.

    In party's he is the security guard. making sure nobody GETS to the casters while they rain evocation (and others) on the field. and they can clear paths with the forced march (works best on narrow corridors or bridges.)
    Yes, lets just hope the entire campaign is based around monsters who are too stupid to sidestep the guy in full armor who regenerates like mad, who are all inexplicably placed in chokepoints favourable to the party, and have no alternative means of movement.

    besides, think epic levels. even greater deathpoint and fast healing, this might turn to bee too much in the super-high levels. (say, level 25 Immortal. fast healing 25. deathpoint -70. silly powerful. and with that high hit die, even your wizard will find it troublesome to defeat him. ever.)
    You're absolutely right. The wizard who has access to epic spells capable of ending whatever planet they happen to be on will assuredly quake in fear of that fast healing.

    In some way, he is anti-caster. because they might run out of spells before he runs out of hitpoints.
    Actually, that just makes him the anti-purposefully-handicapped-caster. All a caster has to do is chuck a single will-based save-or-lose your way, and that's the end.

    -------

    The idea is cool, but within the context of a D&D adventure, being really hard to kill via hit point damage and nothing else isn't very useful. At best, you'll be the last party member standing, and so when the monsters have looted your friends' corpses and walked away ignoring you because you're still only doing pinpricks of damage, and they're too frustrated to bother finishing you off, then you can write everyone's epitaph.

    At worst, they had a caster or scroll of <insert will-save spell here> and you're dead too.

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    Default Re: Immortal [PrC]

    Anti-magic items.
    Owned?

    The point is, Immortals, has they have very simple requirements, can be trained in masses. they are not hard to be trained in betalions, jest grab a group of low-level fighters with 13 Int (or 12, you can make them improve it at level 4.) and send them into factory-like training camps.

    Casters on the other hand, much harder to find them in masses, as they need high ability scores to be effective.

    Besides, you are overlooking some possible fighting methods used with multiple Immortals.

    Shove your enemies. all the way. into a pit, cliff, wall etc. using the forced march.

    Block roads with nigh-unkillable soldiers.

    Make a party of them. virtually unbeatable if they keep striking down casters first.

    Build a food factory for cannibals....

    all sorts of thing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cormag81 View Post
    2117: No matter how good a debater I am out of character there is no way to logically get out of falling after your paladin kills his patron god.

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    Default Re: Immortal [PrC]

    Maybe you should also give them something like the Stand Still feat (it's in the SRD under Psionic Feats, but it's a General feat)
    It seems like it fits with the flavor and intent of the class.
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    Default Re: Immortal [PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by boomwolf View Post
    Anti-magic items.
    Owned?
    So, now, not only must they be used in overwhelming numbers, but the class also requires the use of high level magic items to be effective? These don't seem like flaws to you?

    Not to mention that covered with an anti-magic field, a caster can just fly over them.

    The point is, Immortals, has they have very simple requirements, can be trained in masses. they are not hard to be trained in betalions, jest grab a group of low-level fighters with 13 Int (or 12, you can make them improve it at level 4.) and send them into factory-like training camps.

    Casters on the other hand, much harder to find them in masses, as they need high ability scores to be effective.
    Right, so after you've trained them en mass, and emptied the coffers of your entire nation to outfit them in anti-magic items which you've said they need, then they have a "point".

    Not that this has any baring on an actual campaign, where they'll be used in an adventuring party.

    Besides, you are overlooking some possible fighting methods used with multiple Immortals.

    Shove your enemies. all the way. into a pit, cliff, wall etc. using the forced march.
    Its a good thing all your enemies are standing exactly 15 feet away from a pit or cliff, are idiots, can't make overrun attacks, and have no other means of travel even though they're being pitted against lvl 12 minimum characters.

    Block roads with nigh-unkillable soldiers.
    You know what else is unkillable and blocks roads? Walls. People seem to find ways around those pretty easily. You never hear an adventuring party exclaim "Oh no, there's a stationary, non-threatening target blocking off that small section of space. Retreat!"

    Make a party of them. virtually unbeatable if they keep striking down casters first.
    Lets just hope none of those casters have Fly, because that would render your entire party almost entirely useless.


    Build a food factory for cannibals....
    What?

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    Default Re: Immortal [PrC]

    Well...they can regrow limbs...

    About the blocking thing-walls don't strike back. or follow you. or try to push you off a cliff. or such things.

    And 15 feet from a cliff is dumb? well. not if there is no other way.
    Castles build on mountains can use them as a fearsome defense.

    Anyway, I never said that they are perfect. But they are very good.
    In warfare they provide great tactical advantage.

    And being overshaded by casters at high levels does not count.
    Every melee combat class is overshaded by casters due to the way the system is built.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cormag81 View Post
    2117: No matter how good a debater I am out of character there is no way to logically get out of falling after your paladin kills his patron god.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boomwolf View Post
    And being overshaded by casters at high levels does not count.
    Every melee combat class is overshaded by casters due to the way the system is built.
    Yes! That's exactly what I'm saying. By 10th level, full casters are the undisputed masters of the game power-wise, and quite possibly long before, so don't worry about overpowering this class in its later levels by giving it a few abilities that will make it more fun, interesting, and useful.

    Maybe give it some sort of ability that intercepts attacks, or forces opponents to choose them as a target over others. Really, anything that has some utility that helps the party as a whole rather than them as an individual, because very few games out there feature only one player.

    Its okay if a class can't stand up to another class in direct combat, so long as they're able to contribute meaningfully.

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    Default Re: Immortal [PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by boomwolf View Post
    Anyway, I never said that they are perfect. But they are very good.
    In warfare they provide great tactical advantage.
    Sure...they provide tactical advantage in warfare.

    But they don't provide tactical advantage in an adventuring party.

    They need some sort of taunting ability that causes enemies to focus on them as opposed to killing the squishies.
    Last edited by Sol; 2007-11-26 at 04:20 PM.

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    Default Re: Immortal [PrC]

    Right.

    So...maybe I'll move Forced march to level 6 (instead of the improved solid stand) and make 2 new battle move in level 8 and 9 (replacing solid stand again)


    Quote Originally Posted by Cormag81 View Post
    2117: No matter how good a debater I am out of character there is no way to logically get out of falling after your paladin kills his patron god.

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    Default Re: Immortal [PrC]

    someone has been wacthing 300 a good deal i see

    on the class itself.......it really dosnt look over powered...id even call it a bit weak, even if they cant die in single numbers or even small groups...they wouldnt be hard to pick off...lots of ways to disable rather then kill
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    Default Re: Immortal [PrC]

    True. but disabling can be outdone.


    And to say the truth? I haven't seen 300 yet. I was sick the day my friends went to see it and now I'm waiting for it to be on TV as I am too lazy to go alone.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cormag81 View Post
    2117: No matter how good a debater I am out of character there is no way to logically get out of falling after your paladin kills his patron god.

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    Default Re: Immortal [PrC]

    Despite anyone else's complaints, I think it is a worthwhile PrC. I know one of my players who would love it. And just because it has been nagging me, the name didn't happen by chance to have come from 300, would it?
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    Default Re: Immortal [PrC]

    As said, haven't seen 300 yet. so thats a no.

    Anyway, its a fun thing to play (you can't kill me, ever, even if I don't respond, you silly goblin...)

    It will truly shine in low-magic setting, where raising the dead is not common. in these settings you want to be harder to kill, and this PrC takes it as far as possible.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cormag81 View Post
    2117: No matter how good a debater I am out of character there is no way to logically get out of falling after your paladin kills his patron god.

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    Default Re: Immortal [PrC]

    To be true immortals, one should probably also include provisions against ability damage, level drain, and disease/poison.

    Fast healing at higher levels could be beefed to include healing some ability damage on some sort of timescale starting at level 3 or 4, maybe immune to poisons/disease around 6 or 7, and at level 10 'immortal soul' where the immortal is immune to negative levels.

    I might also include the special ability 'mettle' from the paladin/cleric book. It is a feat that allows for the user to just stand and take it instead of dodging out of the way. In such cases, the subject is able to substitute their fortitude save for any reflex save if they just stand their ground (doesn't help against arrow traps or avoiding being crushed by walls, but does work against lightning bolts and fireballs and even dragon's breath). One might think that guys who are infused with regenerative ability would learn to use that ability to cover up and just take it relying on their ability to heal to recover damage taken rather than worrying about getting out of the way.

    I don't think that those additions would make them too overpowered, since the abilities are mainly defensive in nature and just make them harder to kill...they still are really just meat shields with the fighting prowess of a cleric who is out of spells.

    Without some sort of extra defense, they are no better than several lower level fighters who take turns attacking.

    BTW...I might change weapon expertise to power attack...those that would not fear anything and could regenerate would do well to ignore their own safety and rely on shear damage to take down their enemies fast and then regenerate for the next battle. Perhaps the opposite of expertise would be fitting, one in which they can sacrifice AC for to hit or damage.

    An immortal would be well advised to get some sort of crit or damage mitigation like from adamant or other magic armor. Any amount of mitigation would essentially be that many more hitpoints.

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    Default Re: Immortal [PrC]

    Some very intresting ideas.
    Its late now (2am) so i'll remodel the immortal a little later on.

    BTW, mettle is something else.
    I think there is such a feat called "Jest take it" somewhere that does that. but not sure where. and now I can't find it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cormag81 View Post
    2117: No matter how good a debater I am out of character there is no way to logically get out of falling after your paladin kills his patron god.

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    Default Re: Immortal [PrC]

    Ah, nothing beats a character what can't be killed. Monks, Warlocks, and now Immortals. I love it, though it seems a bit over the top. Combining diehard with that much more room before death, plus fast healing to counter damage from not being stabilized...
    This could be the tankiest tank that ever tanked. Just be sure to carry a crossbow.

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    Default Re: Immortal [PrC]

    Ah, right...I am thinking of something else too but I am not sure what. Mettle is the same as evasion but works for fort and reflex saves.

    one minor point that needs to be addressed...their abilities to heal, regrow limbs, and res themselves...are these extraordinary abilities, supernatural abilities, spell-like abilities?

    if they are (Ex), they will continue to function in anti magic zones, but if they are supernatural they won't, and can even be supressed in other ways...

    Hmm...an immortal/fighter/mage hunter with some anti magic tech would be hell on wheels...

    I couldn't really picture these guys being in any large numbers...for starters...one must be at least 5th level to be a 1st level immortal byut he current writeup...so in most kingdoms, any core of immortals would be very small, a few hundered even in the largest kingdom...but man...what a force the core would make. In any low magic game, they would be a true monstrosity.

    One thing that also must be addressed...what is the classes background? and more importantly...what the hell gives them the ability to regenerate like that?!?!

    It could be a blessing, a pact of some sort, ancient rituals, high magic, or something darker like they need to imbibe the life force of a certian creature that has such capabilities...like a troll, or an angel/demon...

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    Default Re: Immortal [PrC]

    And if they became immune to aging... a kingdom could, over the years, accumulate an entire army of Immortal warriors. So, If you had a magic ring, the arm got chopped off, and you grew a new one, what kind of action would it take to take the ring off the hand and put it on your new one? Or, more practically, for you to put it on your other hand while the arm regrows.

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    Default Re: Immortal [PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Collin152 View Post
    And if they became immune to aging... a kingdom could, over the years, accumulate an entire army of Immortal warriors. So, If you had a magic ring, the arm got chopped off, and you grew a new one, what kind of action would it take to take the ring off the hand and put it on your new one? Or, more practically, for you to put it on your other hand while the arm regrows.
    timeless body like monks would be interesting...bt would they just stop aging with a natural lifespan, or gain longevity?

    just curious..how many people will be wanting to create rangers or monks who become immortals and specialize in using bladed gauntlets?

    for flavor...would an immortal feel pain as we do? Would everything still hurt them just the same, or would it be deadened...just because you heal it instantly and you get 'used' to it doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt like hell. torture might be especially problematic since they could do ANYTHING to you pretty much and you wouldn't die. might be enough to drive anyone insane...

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    Default Re: Immortal [PrC]

    Let's assume we have a human fighter 4/immortal 6 with a constitution of 18 total. That's 4d10+6d12+40 for an average of 104 HP and a maximum of 155 HP.

    Mr lvl 10 wizard that specialises in scorching rays (arcane thesis) casts an empowered maximised scorching ray followed by celerity and another maximised empowered scorchign ray. That is 186 points of damage on average, enough to kill Mr Immortal outright with no save.

    Mr lvl 10 wizard casts dominate person. A DC 20 or more will save is required or Mr Immortal is bound to serve Mr wizard for the next 10 days.

    Mr lvl 10 wizard casts glitterdust. That "wall" of immortals must have each member do a DC 18 or higher will save or get blinded.


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  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Immortal [PrC]

    Most are Ex abilities or normal abilitys. resurrection is a Su.

    Backround. well, I dislike putting in a background for classes, as it prevents the DM's from using it freely.

    But immortals feel pain. but ignores it like the trained soldiers they are. naturally the pain goes away faster as the wounds heal. but never thought on what will happen on torture. on the other hand, you get alot of time to escape as you never black out. and you are never too wounded to get away.


    Collin152-that is why they are not immune to aging. I don't want endless armies of soldiers that heal in impossible speed.


    A small core of a few hundred Immortals...Any nation can live with that.

    Anyway, I am now thinkering a few changes to the immortal...but It'll take some time.


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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Immortal [PrC]

    As a side note...I think that any immortal who gets -15 as their death number becomes 'immune' to any sort of instant death spell...well, a few at least...don't most death effects reduce the subject to -10 HP? Also..does fast healing count as instant stabilization?

    I might suggest a few dry runs of combat between an 'immortal' and a PC of similar level and comparably equipped. Then maybe a few combats between immortal and a small party and encounters with creatures...say, a combat between mass lowbies and the party, and then a combat between a party and a single tough monster.

    Oooh...an interesting idea...isn't there a magic item, a ring I think, that transferrs damage from one character to another? use that in a party with an immortal...that would be fun...takes some of the load of the healer...even better if the magic item can do that to many people...an item like that and a party with an immortal and a warlock can adventure pretty much non-stop barring rest and never worry about being out of HP or short of magical support.

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    Default Re: Immortal [PrC]

    Normally, a death effect kills you outright, there is just a sub-clause that should the HP matter, a dead character is considered to have -10 HP no matter how they died. They have -10 HP because they died, not the other way around, for death effects/attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#deathAttacks
    In case it matters, a dead character, no matter how she died, has -10 hit points.
    Last edited by Kyace; 2007-11-27 at 05:51 AM.
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