LOLz Iron Heart Surge

[cupkeyk]

From the Wizards Website

Iron Heart Surge
Iron Heart
Level: Warblade 3
Prerequisite: One Iron Heart maneuver
Initiation Action: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: See text

By drawing on your mental strength and physical fortitude, you break free of a debilitating state that might otherwise defeat you.

Your fighting spirit, dedication, and training allow you to overcome almost anything to defeat your enemies. When you use this maneuver, select one spell, effect, or other condition currently affecting you and with a duration of 1 or more rounds. That effect ends immediately. You also surge with confidence and vengeance against your enemies, gaining a +2 morale bonus on attack rolls until the end of your next turn.

So yesterday, we were having our weekly gaming session when we tripped upon hilarity. The DM was nice enough to bring our party to a dungeon in Lantan, overrun by rogue constructs. This was an awesome for my character to shine since i was a swift hunter with construct as a favored enemy. Anywho, we came up against a cadaver collector and the Warblade was paralyzed by its breath. The Warblade used Ironheart Surge and escaped being skewered onto its back, but the DM asked to be showed the maneuver card, as he was unfamiliar with it. He asked what the kinds of effects it can overcome and we lolzed our way into rationalizing that Ironheart Surge can beat death. Since death is an effect with a duration of one or more rounds(Revivify? Last breath? Resurrect? death does have a duration, pffft, permanent IS a duration, right?) Yeah we know you have to be able to use a mental action to use this maneuver but was hella funny anyway.

[I_Got_This_Name]

I think death might technically be an instantaneous effect.

It's meant to work in exactly your situation, when the WB is incapacitated by a status effect. It just so happens to work on everything because of a bug.

[tyckspoon]

Yup. It's a very poorly written ability; among other oddities, it allows you to turn off an Antimagic Field. Not exempt yourself from its effects, you turn it off completely. Or a Web spell, or a Cloudkill, or a number of other effects that probably weren't intended by the writer.

Incidentally, by the same logic you used for ending 'Death' as a status effect, you can use IHS to efficiently commit suicide. Just pick 'being alive' as the condition you want to end.

[Artemician]

And the real stupidest thing, is that a Warblade cannot use IHS to shrug off Dominate/Charm.

Think about that for a while people, let it sink in. The most cinematic effect in the book.. A warrior being controlled by the enemy, but driving it off through sheer willpower.

It can't do that, while you can, however, use IHS to end a Blizzard.

[cupkeyk]

OMG, you can use it to teleport randomly by selecting "being here."

[Starbuck_II]

Technicaly Charm would work, but not dominate thids is because Charm you are still in control, but just need to know something is effecting you.
However, Dominate you lack control so can't.

Death won't work because you can't perform the standard action neccesary to do so.

[....]

Why can't you end charm with it?

Is it because you have no control of your actions?

Thats dumb. I'd make a house rule so that if you suceed on a will save or something, you could break free with IHS. (Like, a lower will save than to resist in the first place)

[tyckspoon]

And the real stupidest thing, is that a Warblade cannot use IHS to shrug off Dominate/Charm.

Think about that for a while people, let it sink in. The most cinematic effect in the book.. A warrior being controlled by the enemy, but driving it off through sheer willpower.

It can't do that, while you can, however, use IHS to end a Blizzard.

Ne? What's preventing you from using IHS on those as well? Under Dominate you could just be ordered not to use the maneuver, but I can't see anything stopping you from using it against Charms. At least mechanically; the 'you consider the caster to be your best friend' stuff might stop a character from wanting to end the spell, but it wouldn't remove his ability to do so.

[Kyeudo]

To use a manuver, you must be able to move, so IHS doesn't help you if you are paralyzed, stunned, dazed, or otherwise unable to take an action. You can't take actions while dead unless you are working from the strict RAW.

[Holocron Coder]

To use a manuver, you must be able to move...

Where does that come from? I'm curious, not correcting

[tyckspoon]

To use a manuver, you must be able to move, so IHS doesn't help you if you are paralyzed, stunned, dazed, or otherwise unable to take an action. You can't take actions while dead unless you are working from the strict RAW.

Paralyzed makes an exception for mental actions, which I think IHS is supposed to be. Dazed and Stunned do not, however, which means that you can't end them with IHS despite that being the *intended* use instead of the insanity of counteracting a weather condition or dispelling a spell effect just because you happen to be standing in it.

[Dausuul]

Ne? What's preventing you from using IHS on those as well? Under Dominate you could just be ordered not to use the maneuver, but I can't see anything stopping you from using it against Charms. At least mechanically; the 'you consider the caster to be your best friend' stuff might stop a character from wanting to end the spell, but it wouldn't remove his ability to do so.

Yeah, it's the fact that charm keeps you from wanting to end the effect that's the problem. Mechanically you could do it, except your character wouldn't do it because why would you want to turn against your best friend?

[Frosty]

I believe IHS is just a mental action. Of course, when you're dead, you don't get any actions at all, so that's that.

[cupkeyk]

Ditto on that source request. I have looked up maneuvers as defined by Counter, Boost and Strike (though IHS is a -).

[tainsouvra]

Is this the ability that has been interpreted as being able, when used by a creature with light-sensitivity, to extinguish the sun?

[ZeroNumerous]

Mechanically you could do it, except your character wouldn't do it because why would you want to turn against your best friend?

Because he's a bastard who forgot your birthday?

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Hey, IHS to end the planet's gravity!

[Illiterate Scribe]

Oh, I remember this meme from the WotC boards ...

With a roar of effort, I shrug off the status of being vulnerable to pun pun!

[tyckspoon]

You could possibly also IHS entire planes out of existence, if their conditions are inhospitable to you. The Elemental Planes of Fire and Water would be good candidates.. this would be a good explanation for how the Far Realms and the Nothing that vestiges live in came to be.

[Nerd-o-rama]

It's still poorly worded, but you can't take standard actions when you're dead. Okay, I admit, this is a house rule, but if you don't follow this, you don't even need Iron Heart Surge to keep moving, so it's a moot point.

And of course, neither "dead" nor "dying" nor "disabled" is ever technically measured in rounds. There are certain things that happen within X rounds of gaining that status, but the effects themselves are not measured in rounds.

Also, I'm fairly certain that "effect" is a more specific term than you're giving it credit for...

[Skjaldbakka]

Inhospitable planes do not have a duration.

You can break charm and even dominate so long as the caster doesn't know to tell you not to. This only works if they aren't forcing you to use your standard action every round to do something else, and then only if they don't know to tell you not to use IHS. Even if the DM rules that you can't use IHS on purpose to break the dominate, if you got hit with something else that you would normally break with IHS (such as blindness, etc.), the IHS would also hit the dominate, as it also has a duration (IIRC, IHs gets all effects with a duration). You cannot use IHS to break paralysis, because you cannot use any manuever when you are unable to move.

[tainsouvra]

You can break charm and even dominate so long as the caster doesn't know to tell you not to.

In the case of charm, I would disagree. He regards you as a trusted friend and views all of your actions--including casting the Charm spell on him if he is aware of being enchanted--in the most favorable way. If your trusted friend does something that you regard favorably, why would you intentionally counteract it?

The problem with Charm isn't mechanical, it's motivational. The spell generally causes you to not want to break the spell.

[Xefas]

Just out of curiosity, what do you think would be a better wording of the ability? One that captures the original intent more effectively?

[kjones]

Where is this "You need to be able to move in order to use a maneuver" thing coming from? It makes sense in the context of most maneuvers, but IHS and its ilk seem to me to be purely mental actions.

[Keld Denar]

Where is this "You need to be able to move in order to use a maneuver" thing coming from? It makes sense in the context of most maneuvers, but IHS and its ilk seem to me to be purely mental actions.

Especially considering that without being able to end paralysis and similar effects, there aren't too many other effects that you would really want to end. Maybe slow, since you can still take a standard. Or Ray of Enfeeblement/Exhaustion. Can it work on negative levels? Such as the ones given by undead? Or by Eneveration? Does it work against ability damage? I mean, the list of stuff that this move is suppoed to work against but doesn't is pretty long already, and the list of stuff that is rediculous that it works against is getting longer...

[cupkeyk]

Ability Penalties, some types of exhaustion/fatigue, cowering, panicked and fear effects from spells.... there is still quite a few.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Fear effects can be stopped. Panicked effects cannot-because you can't stop and take actions if you're panicked as you have to flee in the most expedient manner available.

In short, ANY effect that prevents you from taking actions or controls what actions you're taking cannot be stopped by IHS at all.

[StickMan]

One day wizards will hire some one who can prof read and then we will have nothing to talk about.

[cupkeyk]

One day wizards will hire some one who can prof read and then we will have nothing to talk about.

it's not the grammar, it's the playability. So they should hire Anal Gamer Language Majors.

[Ramos]

They should probably hire one of the major powerDMers/ruleslawyers that lurk around here or in the CharOp boards.