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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Troacctid's Avatar

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    Jan 2014
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXI

    Yeah, this is kind of a weirdly boring class, isn't it?

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Apr 2013

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXI

    I'm tempted to submit one of the really obvious ideas, if only to get some practice doing full builds.

  3. - Top - End - #33
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Dec 2012

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXI

    I've had some requests for extension, and I currently don't have many entries, so to that end:

    The deadline is extended to August 28th.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
    Awards

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXI

    Quote Originally Posted by The Viscount View Post
    The deadline is extended to August 28th.
    This is good, because I suddenly have idea and I like it for some reason.
    Last edited by loky1109; 2022-08-22 at 02:05 PM.
    If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro

    My competition's medals.

    Spoiler: For purposes of clarity
    Show
    1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Thurbane's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXI

    Huh, I somehow completely missed the post for this comp.

    Be interesting to see what people come up with...

  6. - Top - End - #36
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXI

    Done and sent!
    If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro

    My competition's medals.

    Spoiler: For purposes of clarity
    Show
    1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXI

    Looking forward to reading (and judging) everyone's entries! Good luck!
    Screaming defiance with the last breath

    It would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated.


    My judgments and medals!

    The Iron Chef Optimization spreadsheet!

    Song, Sword, and Sorcery: my 5E homebrew half-caster bard (Version 2.0!)

  8. - Top - End - #38
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Dec 2013

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXI

    I have spent the month kicking back on real life and seem to have it on the ropes at last, but had no brain to spare for this one. Look forward to seeing what everybody else was doing.

  9. - Top - End - #39
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXI

    Any news ? :)

  10. - Top - End - #40
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Dec 2012

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXI

    It's time for the reveal! Please hold off on posting until the all clear.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
    Awards

  11. - Top - End - #41
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXI

    Take a look, it's in a book

    Quote Originally Posted by Noah Itall
    Noah Itall
    "Knowledge is Power, especially when it’s a class feature”



    TN Strongheart Halfling Monk1/Archivist4/Paragnostic Apostle1/Singer of Concordance3/Dragon Descendant10/Swordsage1

    Spoiler: Overview
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    Spoiler: Feat Summary
    Show

    Alignment : Lawful Neutral
    Race : Strongheart Halfling
    Level 1 : Dragontouched, Draconic Knowledge (Halfling Bonus), Unarmed Strike (Monk Bonus), Combat Reflexes (Monk Bonus)
    Level 3 : Carmendine Monk
    Level 6 : Planar Touchstone (Healing Waters of Abu-Ima)
    Level 9 : Practiced Spellcaster (Archivist), Knowledge Devotion (Trade for Domain)
    Level 12 : Shadow Blade
    Level 15 : Craven
    Level 18 : Snap Kick


    Spoiler: Point Buy
    Show

    Point Buy at level 1
    STR 12 -2 (Halfling)
    DEX 14 +2 (Halfling)
    CON 14
    INT 16
    WIS 14
    CHA 8

    All level increases in Int



    Spoiler: The Story
    Show

    In his early life, Noah was a curious and studious halfing. Where his comrades tended to experience life on the outside to harden themselves, he kept in the company of books. His thirst for knowledge seemed endless and when his preceptors couldn’t feed his addiction, he turned to the old book and the divinity therein.


    He was drawn to a particular book, that that depicted a Grinning’s Dragon Head and for the better part of his youth, he searched for Aasterinian everywhere he went but their destinies seemed to be following a parallel path, never crossing each other.
    The discipline he put himself through led him to lead a monk’s life but while his brothers were revering the martial arts, he was looking for some deeper connections. He, of course, followed his martial training as any monk was expected to but his main drive always remained the answer to the Universe. He delved into some dark knowledges of the Zealots of the Written Word and unearthed some of the deepest secrets which didn’t take long to catch the fancy of the Paragnostic Assembly ; a group of erudite forever in pursuit of knowledge. They ended up making Noah an Apostle but his bloodline manifested around this time and the truth of his origin was unveiled ; he was a Descendant of Io, The Ninefold Dragon, Creator of Dragonkind ! Aasterinian was but a messenger of the true faith he was called by and the latter ended up leading him on the right path after all !
    From there he dug deep into his heritage and mixing his unfathomable understanding of the Holy Texts with the innate power of his blood, he managed to commune with his many ancestors drawing from their powers in times of need.
    As time went by, the connections with elder dragon spirits from his family tree grew more numerous until, one day, Noah took it upon himself to bring the
    knowledge of the Song to all of Io’s creations. He was a long way still from mastering the Spheres of Concordance but counting on his backing from the Paragnostic Assembly and his bloodline’s power remaining dormant, Noah was about to leave his mark in the History of halflings and dragons alike without the shadow of a doubt.


    Spoiler: Build
    Show

    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Reflex Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st Halfling Monk 1 0 2 2 2 Concentration (+4) 4; Know (Arcana) (+4) 4; Know (Dungeon) (+4) 4; Know (Nature) (+4) 4; Know (Religion) (+4) 4; Know (The Planes) (+4) 4; Spellcraft (+4) 4; Hide (+4) 4; Move Silently (+4) 4; Dragontouched, Draconic Knowledge (Halfling Bonus), Improved Unarmed Strike (Monk Bonus), Combat Reflexes (Monk Bonus) Invisible Eye Fighting Style, Bonus Feat, Skirmish, Unarmed Strike
    2nd Archivist 1 0 4 2 4 Concentration (+1) 5; Know (Arcana) (+1) 5; Know (Dungeon) 4; Know (Nature) (+1) 5; Know (Religion) (+1) 5; Know (The Planes) (+1) 5; Spellcraft 4; Hide 4; Move Silently 4; Collector of Stories; Scribe Scroll (Archivist Bonus) Dark Knowledge (Tactics) 3/d, Scribe Scroll
    3rd Archivist 2 1 5 2 5 Concentration (+1) 6; Know (Arcana) (+1) 6; Know (Dungeon) (+2) 6; Know (Nature) (+1) 6; Know (Religion) (+1) 6; Know (The Planes) (+1) 6; Spellcraft 4; Hide 4; Move Silently 4; Collector of Stories; Carmendine Monk Lore Mastery
    4th Archivist 3 1 5 3 5 Concentration (+1) 7; Know (Arcana) (+1) 7; Know (Dungeon) (+1) 7; Know (Nature) (+1) 7; Know (Religion) (+1) 7; Know (The Planes) (+1) 7; Spellcraft (+1) 5; Hide 4; Move Silently 4; Collector of Stories; Dark Knowledge 4/d
    5th Archivist 4 2 6 3 6 Concentration (+1) 8; Know (Arcana) (+1) 8; Know (Dungeon) (+1) 8; Know (Nature) (+1) 8; Know (Religion) (+1) 8; Know (The Planes) (+1) 8; Spellcraft (+1) 6; Hide 4; Move Silently 4; Collector of Stories; Still Mind
    6th Dragon Descendant 1 2 8 3 8 Concentration (+1) 9; Know (Arcana) (+1) 9; Know (Dungeon) (+1) 9; Know (Nature) (+1) 9; Know (Religion) (+1) 9; Know (The Planes) (+1) 9; Spellcraft (+1) 7; Hide 4; Move Silently 4; Collector of Stories; Planar Touchstone Monk Abilities, Rampaging Ancestor
    7th Paragnostic Apostle 1 2 8 3 10 Concentration (+1) 10; Know (Arcana) (+1) 10; Know (Dungeon) (+1) 10; Know (Nature) (+1) 10; Know (Religion) (+1) 10; Know (The Planes) (+1) 10; Spellcraft (+1) 8; Hide 4; Move Silently 4; Collector of Stories; Holy Text, Knowledge is Power, Lore
    8th Singer of Concordance 1 2 8 5 12 Concentration (+1) 11; Know (Arcana) (+1) 11; Know (Dungeon) (+1) 11; Know (Nature) (+1) 11; Know (Religion) (+1) 11; Know (The Planes) (+1) 11; Spellcraft (+1) 9; Hide 4; Move Silently 4; Collector of Stories; Aspect of Peace
    9th Singer of Concordance 2 3 8 6 13 Concentration (+1) 12; Know (Arcana) (+1) 12; Know (Dungeon) (+1) 12; Know (Nature) (+1) 12; Know (Religion) (+1) 12; Know (The Planes) (+1) 12; Spellcraft (+1) 10; Hide 4; Move Silently 4; Collector of Stories; Practiced Spellcaster (Archivist), Knowledge Devotion (Traded for Domain) Bonus Domain (Knowledge)
    10th Dragon Descendant 2 4 9 6 14 Concentration (+1) 13; Know (Arcana) (+1) 13; Know (Dungeon) (+1) 13; Know (Nature) (+1) 13; Know (Religion) (+1) 13; Know (The Planes) (+1) 13; Spellcraft (+1) 11; Hide 4; Move Silently 4; Collector of Stories; Ancestral Lore
    11th Dragon Descendant 3 5 9 7 14 Concentration (+1) 14; Know (Arcana) (+1) 14; Know (Dungeon) (+1) 14; Know (Nature) (+1) 14; Know (Religion) (+1) 14; Know (The Planes) (+1) 14; Spellcraft (+1) 12; Hide 4; Move Silently 4; Collector of Stories; Subtle Ancestor
    12th Swordsage 1 5 9 9 16 Concentration 14; Know (Arcana) 14; Know (Dungeon) 14; Know (Nature) 14; Know (Religion) 14; Know (The Planes) 14; Spellcraft 12; Hide (+5) 9; Move Silently (+5) 9; Collector of Stories; Shadow Blade Quick to Act +1, Discipline Focus (Shadow Hand)
    13th Dragon Descendant 4 6 10 9 17 Concentration (+1) 15; Know (Arcana) (+2) 16; Know (Dungeon) (+1) 15; Know (Nature) (+1) 15; Know (Religion) (+1) 15; Know (The Planes) (+1) 15; Spellcraft (+1) 13; Hide 9; Move Silently 9; Collector of Stories; Slippery Mind
    14th Dragon Descendant 5 6 10 9 17 Concentration (+1) 16; Know (Arcana) (+1) 17; Know (Dungeon) (+2) 17; Know (Nature) (+1) 16; Know (Religion) (+1) 16; Know (The Planes) (+1) 16; Spellcraft (+1) 14; Hide 9; Move Silently 9; Collector of Stories; Eldritch Ancestor
    15th Dragon Descendant 6 7 11 10 18 Concentration (+1) 17; Know (Arcana) (+1) 18; Know (Dungeon) (+1) 18; Know (Nature) (+2) 18; Know (Religion) (+1) 17; Know (The Planes) (+1) 17; Spellcraft (+1) 15; Hide 9; Move Silently 9; Collector of Stories; Craven Rapid Calling
    16th Dragon Descendant 7 8 11 10 18 Concentration (+1) 18; Know (Arcana) (+1) 19; Know (Dungeon) (+1) 19; Know (Nature) (+1) 19; Know (Religion) (+2) 19; Know (The Planes) (+1) 18; Spellcraft (+1) 16; Hide 9; Move Silently 9; Collector of Stories; Enduring Ancestor
    17th Dragon Descendant 8 9 12 10 19 Concentration (+1) 19; Know (Arcana) (+1) 20; Know (Dungeon) (+1) 20; Know (Nature) (+1) 20; Know (Religion) (+1) 20; Know (The Planes) (+2) 20; Spellcraft (+1) 17; Hide 9; Move Silently 9; Collector of Stories; Detect Dragonblood
    18th Dragon Descendant 9 9 12 11 19 Concentration (+1) 20; Know (Arcana) (+1) 21; Know (Dungeon) (+1) 21; Know (Nature) (+1) 21; Know (Religion) (+1) 21; Know (The Planes) (+1) 21; Spellcraft (+2) 19; Hide 9; Move Silently 9; Collector of Stories; Snap Kick Ancient Ancestor
    19th Dragon Descendant 10 10 13 11 20 Concentration (+1) 21; Know (Arcana) (+1) 22; Know (Dungeon) (+1) 22; Know (Nature) (+1) 22; Know (Religion) (+1) 22; Know (The Planes) (+1) 22; Spellcraft (+2) 21; Hide 9; Move Silently 9; Collector of Stories; Double Synthesis
    20th Singer of Concordance 3 10 14 11 20 Concentration (+1) 22; Know (Arcana) (+1) 23; Know (Dungeon) (+1) 23; Know (Nature) (+1) 23; Know (Religion) (+1) 23; Know (The Planes) (+1) 23; Spellcraft (+2) 23; Hide 9; Move Silently 9; Collector of Stories; Aspect of Refuge


    Spoiler: Level Breakdown
    Show


    Spoiler: Level 1 – 5
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    Starting off as a Halfling Monk is a net improvement ; 6+Int skills and Skirmish in place of Flurry of Blow plus those little fellas are a very good package ! Small size (+4 to Hide, +1 to Hit and AC), +2 Listen, Climb, Jump, Move Silently and +2 morale bonus vs fear effect. If you just need an extra +1, using shurikens or a sling can get it to you.
    What’s more, Strongheart Halfling comes with an extra bonus feat that we use on Draconic Knowledge since our thirst for knowledge stems from the calls of our ancestors echoing through our blood. Noah worships Io even if it is more of an intuition for now.
    The Invisible Eye class variant gives us Combat Reflexes as our monk bonus feat and a bonus on Listen check that continues adding up with the Dragontouched Bonus. We’re meeting all the SI’s feat prereq in one level, that’s nice.
    We are burning our skill points in every Knowledge skill able to identify creatures because Noah’s a big geek and we still end up with +11 to Hide, +9 Move Silently and +7 Listen.
    Then comes the main class, Archivist. It can get all divine spells of a given level with enough time spent researching them and that’s most of what we’re going to be doing. We enlist in the Zealots of the Written Word giving us Int to AC and +2 to our monk effective level for one ability for 24h ; Noah is improving his unarmored speed at low levels so he can keep up with the 30ft speed of Medium creatures.
    Carmendine monks are known for their recording information and scribing which is right down Noah’s alley with his Dark Knowledge class feature.
    The latter benefits from maxed out ranks in all 5 Knowledge skills, +3 to Int, +1 from Draconic Knowledge, +5 competence bonus from Collector of Stories and the eventual +10 from the Lore of the Gods spell since Io has Knowledge in his portfolio which amounts to a guaranteed +2 insight bonus to hit on creatures with 7 HD or less by level 5.
    Noah can stand his ground in a fight. His low bab is somewhat mitigated by his small size (+1) and Dark Knowledge (+1 to +3) but most of all, the Bite of the Wererat spell : +6 to Dex and the benefits of Weapon Finesse for a few minutes. We have 2 attacks (1 unarmed strike, 1 bite) at +7/+2 (without Dark Knowledge) dealing 1d4+1d3+2+2d6 (from skirmish) averaging 13 damage. AC isn’t bad either, Mage Armor being on the Spell domain, an Archivist can get it as a divine spell making Noah’s AC 23 (+4 Mage Armor, +3 Dex, +3 Int, +3 Bite of the Wererat). The selection of spells is otherwise discussed further in the Spell section.


    Spoiler: Level 5 – 10
    Show

    We enter the SI for a dip because we need the Planar Touchstone feat and the Healing Waters of Abu-Ami in order to get a 3rd level SLA to qualify for Paragnostic Apostle which will allow us to enter Singer of Concordance. And why is that important ?
    Well on the fluff side, we’re a descendant of dragons with a thirst for knowledge and a knack for magic and that is mostly what Io stands for so entering a PrC dedicated to researching grimoires in order to access to one tailor-made for that one god that sums up our character just clicks perfectly.
    On the crunch side, we progress Archivist casting into the 4th level spell : Divine Power is our main draw but Polymorph is no slur either and the Knowledge is Power (Best. Class. Feature. Name for Noah) Mind Over Body from Paragnostic Apostle grants us a much welcomed +1 CL on those spells.
    Noah also gets the Knowledge Domain which we trade for Knowledge Devotion ; by level 12 you should get +5 insight to hit and damage (See Moar Lore for explanation).
    Back to the SI.
    Monk Abilities stack with our Monk level and Carmendine’s +2 shifting to get the next interesting bonus and we got the Rampaging Ancestor mostly here for the immunity to fear and making our unarmed strikes magic/chaotic for DR purposes.


    Spoiler: Level 10 – 15
    Show

    We unlock the Subtle Ancestor and combine it with a Swordsage dip netting us 4d6 of Sneak Attack and Shadow Blade allowing us to add Dex to damage (it is at 22 with Bite of the Wererat).
    Level 12
    To Hit : Dark Knowledge, Knowledge Devotion, Small size, Discipline Focus (Shadow Hand), Dex (from Bite of the Wererat), full BaB from Divine Power, that’s around +28 to hit
    Damage : Unarmed Strike, Know Devotion, Str, Dex, Sneak Attack, that’s around 5d6+14 on flat-footed opponents.
    Furthermore, we have an (Ex) 50ft teleportation available, swift invisibility for 1 round and a 5d6 ranged touch attack that might flat-foot the target making it a good rider for our 4d6 Sneak +1d6 Skirmish. We also have the option of swift action flanking your target alone if your mates aren’t there.
    Ancestral Lore can help you get results on a check where Lore (Paragnostic Apostle) failed since the former is based on Concentration which you have maxed out ; Noah’s memory goes deep.
    Slippery Mind is really great for you because while Aspect of Peace (Singer of Concordance) protects you completely from the first compulsion thrown at you each day, it grants another +4 morale to the subsequent ones and given your insane Will save, Slippery Mind basically turns that 5% fail chance into 0.25%.
    Eldritch Ancestor is throwing Eldritch blast without giving them the name but they are good riders for SA and Skirmish as well. Another great finding here is that it counts as an SLA ½ your Dragon Ascendant level and while it seems underwhelming, for Noah it’s awesome ; it means he can change his Touchstone site and get Catalogs of Enlightenment (Magic Domain). Now an Archivist can get any spell on any domain in his prayerbook so the real draw here is to be able to use wands and scrolls as a 1st level wizard because it opens up Golem/Grave/Vine Strike spells which expand considerably your Sneak Attackable targets !! Get gauntlets or Monk Shadow weapons with wand chambers (Dungeonscape) in them and go nuts sneak attacking constructs !
    Lastly we get Craven which means +15 damage on our sneak attacks (on top of Knowledge Devotion’s +5, Dex’s +6 and Str’s +3). The cost is getting a -2 penalty against fear effects that is canceled by your racial +2 ! Moreover, Noah simply negates the first one of the day, gets a +4 for the rest of the day and can simply swift action call Rampaging Ancestor if the risk of fear effects becomes too big ! Then swift change it back to Subtle Ancestor to gain your Sneak Attack + Craven goodness when it’s your turn to play.


    Spoiler: Level 15 – 20
    Show

    Continuing in the SI, we unlock Enduring Ancestor.
    What’s there to say, X/cold iron is pretty uncommon and adding 1/2 Dragon Ancestor levels to saves just means Noah hardly ever fails one anymore. At level 16, Noah has +16 Fort, +16 Ref (+19 with Bite of the Wererat), +23 Will (and Slippery Mind just in case).
    It’s worth noting that your Knowledge [Arcana] checks allow you to know exactly if you’re facing a dragon or dragonblood subtype when using Detect Dragonblood (yes, I gave this class feature some love too).
    Ancient Ancestor is interesting. You finally understand why you needed that pesky Combat Reflexes in the first place. That’s good for Noah again since his go-to spell is Bite of the Wererat which makes it so he has 6 AoOs to play with each turn. The +5 to AC (at DraAsc10) are a good plus too (compared to a similar Robilar’s Gambit feat giving you -4) and the last level of Singer of Concordance we get gives us Aspect of Refuge ; attackers need to make a Will save in order to hit you in melee. If they fail you can keep your AoOs for another enemy and if you want to use them anyway, you just have to move 20ft away from where you stand (provoking them so they attack which provokes from you first).
    Snap-Kick gives an extra oomph to the build because an extra attack means extra additions of our many flat bonuses.
    Double Synthesis is a very nice capstone, Eldritch/Subtle Ancestor is good for ambushing, +29 Hide (9 ranks, 6 Dex, 10 Subtle Ancestor, +4 Small) and +27 Move Silently is not too shabby to trigger Sneak Attacks on range touch attacks : 5d6+4d6 (SA) +1d6 (Skirmish) +20 (Craven) +5 (Know Devotion).
    Divine Power/Bite of the Wererat makes Enduring/Ancient Ancestor appealing to stay in the thick of the fight having 5 attacks routine + 6 AoO per turn to use those +5 hit&dmg (from Know Devotion) + Str + Dex.



    Spoiler: Moar Lore
    Show

    Dark Knowledge needs a 10+HD knowledge check to get a +1 to hit. 20+HD is +2 and 30+HD is +3.
    Knowledge Devotion requires flat 36 or higher for a +5 to hit and damage.

    By level 12, we have 15 ranks in Know (Arcana/Dungeoneering/Nature/Religion/the Planes), +5 from Collector of Stories 1/encounter
    +5 from Int
    +10 from Lore of the Gods
    With a roll of 1 that’s 36.

    “Collector of Stories is a skill trick meaning it’s 1/encounter”
    “Lore of the Gods might not be up when the fight starts !”

    You’re right.
    Let’s take a look at how else we can get shiny bonuses to our Knowledge skills.

    The Paragnostic Assembly gives you an affiliation score which, depending on your score, gives you stuff to play with.
    By level 12 we can possibly have +6 from char level, +10 from having 5 Knowledge skills over 10, +1 from Archivist, +3 for the divination casting requirement, +1 from our Paragnostic level amounting to 21.
    This entitles us to a +5 on any Knowledge check for 5 hours spent researching. So this means if you know what kind of monsters you’re gonna face (dragons when visiting dragon caves, outsiders in hell etc.), you’re golden.
    With 1 more affiliation point (like the one belonging to the Zealots of the Written Word ought to get you), you can even get that bonus to +10 for 10 9 hours of research.

    But you need only 8 more points to your affiliation score to reach 30.
    Looking at Multiple use I think given your tendency to store any kind of spell from weird divine spell lists, you’re more than able to “Provides the Paragnostic Assembly with a spell
    unknown to other members”.
    Same goes with information about monsters since that’s your bread and butter between Dark Knowledge and Knowledge Devotion.
    So hitting 30 isn’t hard and with that score, taking 10 on all knowledge skills checks.

    Voila, no need for Lore of the Gods anymore, freeing up an extra use of Bite of the Wererat ! Yay.
    (If you’re still unconvinced, Divine Insight or even Guidance of the Avatar are learnable and have much longer durations)


    Spoiler: Items
    Show

    - Tomes and Enhancement items for Int, Dex, Con, Str and Wis (in that order).
    Once you have enhanced your Dex, you can just use Feycrafted Sais or Sianghams since they are both monk weapons for your Skirmish and Shadow Hand Weapons for your Shadow Blade feat.

    - Monk’s Belt (SRD) and Monk’s Tattoo (Magic of Faerun) should stack according to the Viscount’s ruling so getting both nets you Monk 20 abilities regarding AC and Unarmed Damage but Monk 15 for Movement Speed (+2 from Carmendine Monk still falling short of 18 sadly)

    - Amulet of Mighty Fists (DMG) because only having Rampaging Ancestor to have you attacks count as Magic / Chaotic is complicated. If you can get a Necklace of Natural Weapons (Savage Species) it’s even better since you can add different enhancements to it like Sizing (MIC), Deadly Precision (MIC), Assassination (Cityscape) …
    Coupling either one of those with a Fanged Ring is great to get Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike).

    - Metamagic Rod (Extend, lesser)l (DMG) is dirt cheap and can make your buffs last longer. Need an upgrade to the normal one for Polymorph and Divine Power (still not breaking the bank).


    Spoiler: Spells
    Show

    List of spells Noah cherishes. He just scratched the surface of shenanigan to avoid trigger lactose intolerant judges.
    Legend of the list we draw spells from :
    (Nothing) : Cleric / (Drd) : Druid / (Pal) : Paladin / (Name) : Domain / (A) : Adept / (NH) : Nentyar Hunter / (EB) : Emissary of Barachiel / (H) : Healer / (DT) : Disciple of Thrym

    1st : Mage Armor (Force), Impeding Stones/Entangle (Drd), Grease (Slime), Enlarge Person (Transformation)
    2nd : Lore of the Gods, Bite of the Wererat (Drd), Substitute Domain, Alter Self (Transformation), Web (A), Scorching Ray (A), Invisibility (Lust)
    3rd : Haste (Time), Fly (Travel), Anyspell* (Spell), Freedom of Movement (NH), Death Ward (EB), Restoration (H).
    4th : Divine Power, Enervation (Decay), Shadow Conjuration (Shadow), Modify Memory (Mentalism), Break Enchantment (Pal), Summon Giant** (DT), Polymorph (A)

    * Anyspell might be problematic so you can forget it if you feel it doesn’t work.
    ** Ok this one is the cheesiest


    Spoiler: Notes & Discussions
    Show

    - Touchstones
    Touchstone and Planar Touchstone sites are interchangeable according to Sandstorm p54
    Those linked with one touchstone can also freely visit other touchstone sites, including planar touchstones (as described in the Planar Handbook)
    And the Planar Touchstone feat mentions
    In this way, you can "unplug" from one site and "plug in" to a new planar touchstone site as often as you desire.
    . So that should settle how elegant it was to have a feat to help you qualify for a PrC and then use it later for versatility while having no legal problem doing it.

    - Regarding Monk Abilities, the wording “Armor Class Bonus” from Dragon Descendant might apply to the AC competence bonus from their Skirmish class feature ; it’s a free +2 if you can take it.

    - In regards to the 3rd level SLA that qualifies you for Paragnostic Apostle, if your DM randomly decides that you need to have called Eldritch Ancestor to actually have access and, therefore, qualify and make the build work, remind him that you still qualify for a PrC requiring 3rd level casting when you’re out of spells slots for the day. This ought to be enough to quell this silly argument.

    - Another possible route is to pick the Planning Domain with Catalogs of Enlightenment which grants you Extend Spell, dip Sacred Exorcist before level 18, and get Persist Spell and Divine Metamagic at 15 and 18 respectively. Adding Nightsticks to this means you can keep your Divine Power/Bite of the Wererat all day long but I knowingly avoided that less Elegant road.


    Spoiler: Sources
    Show

    SRD - Monk, Invisible Fist Fighting Style (Class Variant originally from UA)
    Forgotten Realm Campaign Setting - Strongheart Halfling
    Races of the Wild - Halfling Monk
    Champions of Valor - Carmendine Monk
    Champion of Ruins - Craven
    Heroes of Horror - Archivist
    Complete Champion - Paragnostic Apostle, Lore of the Gods (spell), Paragnostic Assembly
    Races of the Dragon - Singer of Concordance
    Dragon Magic - Dragontouched, Draconic Knowledge, Dragon Descendant
    Tome of Battle - Swordsage, stance & maneuvers, Snap Kick
    Sandstorm - Healing Waters of Abu-Ima (Location)
    Planar Handbook - Planar Touchstone, Catalogues of Enlightenment (Location)
    Book of Exalted Deeds - Emissary of Barachiel
    Unapproachable East - Nentyar Hunter
    Frostburn - Disciple of Thrym
    DMG - Adept
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  12. - Top - End - #42
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Dec 2012

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXI

    Not to be confused with the hot sauce ingenue Samantha d'Tabasco.

    Quote Originally Posted by Samantha d'Jorasco
    Spoiler: Samantha d’Jorasco
    Show
    Halfling Dragonfire Adept 2/Monk 3/Dragon Descendant 10/Nosomatic Chirurgeon 5

    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Reflex Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st Dragonfire Adept 1 0 2 0 2 20: {+4} Concentration: 4; {+3 CC} Heal: 1.5; {+4} Jump: 4; {+1} Knowledge (arcana): 1; {+4} Knowledge (history): 4; {+4} Knowledge (nature): 4; Entangling Exhalation, Dragontouched (B) Breath weapon 1d6, least invocation (Darkness)
    2nd Dragonfire Adept 2 1 3 0 3 5: {+1} Concentration: 5; {+1 CC} Heal: 2; {+1} Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; {+1} Knowledge (history): 5; {+1} Knowledge (nature): 5; Breath effect (Sickening Breath), scales +2
    3rd Halfling Monk 1 1 5 2 5 7: {+1} Concentration: 6; Heal: 2; {+6} Hide: 6; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; Blend into Shadows, Improved Unarmed Strike (B) Skirmish +1d6, soulwarp strike, unarmed damage 1d4
    4th Monk 2 2 6 3 6 5: {+1} Concentration: 7; {+3} Heal: 5; {+1} Hide: 7; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; Combat Reflexes (B) Evasion, Strength +1
    5th Monk 3 3 6 3 6 5: {+1} Concentration: 8; {+3} Heal: 8; {+1} Hide: 8; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; Fast movement +10, still mind
    6th Dragon Descendant 1 3 8 3 8 5: {+1} Concentration: 9; Heal: 8; {+1} Hide: 9; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; {+2} Move Silently: 2; {+1} Tumble: 1; Darkstalker Rampaging ancestor, unarmed strike 1d6
    7th Dragon Descendant 2 4 9 3 9 5: {+1} Concentration: 10; Heal: 8; {+1} Hide: 10; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; {+2} Move Silently: 4; {+1} Tumble: 2; Ancestral lore, AC bonus +1
    8th Dragon Descendant 3 5 9 4 9 5: {+1} Concentration: 11; Heal: 8; {+1} Hide: 11; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; {+2} Move Silently: 6; {+1} Tumble: 3; Subtle ancestor, fast movement +20, Strength +1
    9th Dragon Descendant 4 6/1 10 4 10 5: {+1} Concentration: 12; Heal: 8; {+1} Hide: 12; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; {+2} Move Silently: 8; {+1} Tumble: 4; Snap Kick Slippery mind
    10th Dragon Descendant 5 6/1 10 4 10 5: {+1} Concentration: 13; Heal: 8; {+1} Hide: 13; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; {+2} Move Silently: 10; {+1} Tumble: 5; Eldritch ancestor, unarmed strike 1d8
    11th Dragon Descendant 6 7/2 11 5 11 5: {+1} Concentration: 14; Heal: 8; {+1} Hide: 14; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; {+2} Move Silently: 12; {+1} Tumble: 6; Rapid calling, fast movement +30
    12th Dragon Descendant 7 8/3 11 5 11 5: {+1} Concentration: 15; Heal: 8; {+1} Hide: 15; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; {+2} Move Silently: 14; {+1} Tumble: 7; Least Dragonmark (Lesser Restoration) Enduring ancestor, AC bonus +2, Strength +1
    13th Dragon Descendant 8 9/4 12 5 12 5: {+1} Concentration: 16; Heal: 8; {+1} Hide: 16; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; {+2} Move Silently: 16; {+1} Tumble: 8; Detect dragonblood
    14th Dragon Descendant 9 9/4 12 6 12 5: {+1} Concentration: 17; Heal: 8; {+1} Hide: 17; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; {+1} Move Silently: 17; {+2} Tumble: 10; Ancient ancestor, unarmed strike 1d10, fast movement +40
    15th Dragon Descendant 10 10/5 13 6 13 5: {+1} Concentration: 18; Heal: 8; {+1} Hide: 18; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; {+1} Move Silently: 18; {+2} Tumble: 12; Lesser Dragonmark (Cure Serious Wounds) Double synthesis
    16th Nosomatic Chirurgeon 1 10/5 15 6 15 3: {+1} Concentration: 19; Heal: 8; {+2 CC} Hide: 19; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; Move Silently: 18; Tumble: 12; Heir's mark, nosomatic chirurgery +1, pestilential touch, breath weapon 2d6, least invocation (See the Unseen), Strength +1
    17th Nosomatic Chirurgeon 2 11/6/1 16 6 16 3: {+1} Concentration: 20; Heal: 8; {+2 CC} Hide: 20; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; Move Silently: 18; Tumble: 12; Plague bearer, nosomatic chirurgery +2
    18th Nosomatic Chirurgeon 3 12/7/2 16 7 16 3: {+1} Concentration: 21; Heal: 8; {+2 CC} Hide: 21; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; Move Silently: 18; Tumble: 12; Greater Dragonmark (Heal) Isolate pathogen, nosomatic chirurgery +3, breath weapon 3d6
    19th Nosomatic Chirurgeon 4 13/8/3 17 7 17 3: {+1} Concentration: 22; Heal: 8; {+2 CC} Hide: 22; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; Move Silently: 18; Tumble: 12; Nosomatic touch, nosomatic chirurgery +4, lesser invocation (Humanoid Shape)
    20th Nosomatic Chirurgeon 5 13/8/3 17 7 17 3: {+1} Concentration: 23; Heal: 8; {+2 CC} Hide: 23; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; Move Silently: 18; Tumble: 12; Ascendant carrier, nosomatic chirurgery +5, Strength +1

    Point buy: 14 Str, 14 Dex, 12 Con, 12 Int, 14 Wis, 10 Cha
    After racials: 12 Str, 16 Dex, 12 Con, 12 Int, 14 Wis, 10 Cha

    Spoiler: Story
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    When Samantha was young, her mother died, and her father was excoriated and expelled from House Jorasco for unknown reasons shortly after. Cut off from the family coffers and prohibited from practicing his trade as a healer, he fell into financial difficulties, and found himself deep in debt with loan sharks from the Boromar Clan, the most notorious organized crime ring in Sharn.

    Sam was old enough to know that her dad was in trouble from the first time he came home with bruises on his face, but it wasn’t until the goons came to their apartment that she knew she had to do something about it. Once they were done making their threats, she snuck out the window and secretly followed them back to their hideout.

    The bad news—inexperienced as she was, she slipped up, and the goons spotted her. The good news—the boss wasn’t angry. He was impressed. And he wanted to offer her a job. If she agreed to play lookout for the Clan, then she and her dad would be part of the family, and all debts would be forgiven. She agreed.

    What she didn’t know was that the boss of this district was no ordinary halfling. He was a gold dragon in disguise, and he had big plans. Plans involving a particular verse in the Draconic Prophecy: When the Child of the Exile returns to the House of Healing on the Night of the Twelve Moons with Five Dragons in her Heart and Seven Sicknesses in her Hands, only then shall the Red Crown pass to the Queen of Winter while the Great Armored One still draws breath. It was he who had orchestrated her family’s plight from the very beginning, and now he would mentor the child. Prime her to accept the Five Dragons, and guide her healing powers toward the Seven Sicknesses once they emerged. And when the time was right, everything would fall into place…

    Spoiler: Spotlights
    Show
    Spoiler: Level 3
    Show
    Dragonfire adept is going to carry us through the early levels. It’s famously one of the best level 1 classes in the game. Between Entangling Exhalation and Sickening Breath, it gives us two at-will no-save-just-suck effects in only two levels. (Technically, it’s possible that Entangling Exhalation can be negated by a save if you roll low enough on damage, but let’s not split hairs.) DFA also gives us at-will darkness to power our level 3 feat: Blend into Shadows. This feat is awesome. Hide in plain sight, at will, as a swift action? What is this, 5e? Being hidden is great for both offense and defense. And if you don’t want to be surrounded by a blob of dim light all the time, just cast darkness on your underwear. Your clothes will block the emanation, and nobody can say there isn’t an area of magical darkness within 10 feet of you. Meanwhile, we’re also a monk, and we’re showing off a couple of underappreciated ACFs. The halfling monk substitution level grants skirmish instead of flurry of blows. Normally, monk is a highly mobile class that ironically has to stand still in order to use its flagship ability. Skirmish flips the script by rewarding movement instead, and it doesn’t impose a penalty on our attacks, either. Since dragon descendant doesn’t advance flurry and multiclassing hurts our BAB, reducing our dependence on full attacks just makes sense. The extra skill points are icing on the cake. And speaking of single attacks, I feel like I never see anyone taking Soulwarp Strike, but it’s better than people give it credit for. It’s Stunning Fist, except they still get nerfed even if they pass their save. On a sickness-themed build, it just makes sense.

    TL;DR we’re a weird skirmishy quasi-melee, quasi-BFC, quasi-sneak support build. We pretty much stay that way for most of our career, dipping toes in multiple roles without fully diving into any of them. YMMV on whether that's better than specializing, but this is the "Master of Masks, But For Monks!" round, so it kinda comes with the territory.

    Spoiler: Level 6
    Show
    We’ve snagged all of the prerequisites as bonus feats and made it into the secret ingredient! Rampaging Ancestor is a straightforward ability. Mostly, it changes the SI into effectively full BAB, provides immunity to fear, and gives a little damage boost. The damage bonus notably applies to all damage, not just weapon damage, which means our breath weapon is also dealing +1 damage, both on the initial hit and on the subsequent DoT ticks. The ki strike effect is just icing on the cake; we’re only a secondary melee, and we probably have a +1 monk weapon by now, but you never know! Our feat at this level is Darkstalker, a staple of any build that wants to spend a lot of time hiding in plain sight.

    Spoiler: Level 11
    Show
    This is the range where our unarmed strikes really start to…kick…into gear. With Snap Kick, the game is truly…afoot. It allows us to go…toe to toe…okay, I'll stop. Subtle Ancestor grants sneak attack and boosts stealth, both things that combine in a sublime fashion with Blend into Shadows. Now our quasi-sneak and quasi-melee abilities both pack a lot more…punch. Sorry. Eldritch Ancestor is probably the weakest one, and we can't do much with it now, but stay tuned—there's a plan for it later. For now, we can switch to it when we desperately need a janky ranged touch attack, because we've conveniently just learned how to switch ancestors as a swift action.

    Spoiler: Level 16
    Show
    Good news! We've developed a dragonmark! The Mark of Healing allows us to heal ability damage, fatigue, and good ol' HP damage. Cure serious wounds has an especially fun trick in this build. With Improved Unarmed Strike, touch spells can be delivered by a punch rather than a touch (CAr). So we can punch someone in the face and end up healing them instead of damaging them. And when we do, we can also make a "real" attack with Snap Kick! Punch self, heal self, kick enemy. Crusader, eat your heart out. And on a related note, having the Mark of Healing enables one of my favorite weird prestige classes: nosomatic chirurgeon. The signature ability of this class allows us to expend a spell-like ability to cast an inflict spell of that level or lower. This is the use that I promised for the Eldritch Ancestor! The dragon laser counts as a 5th level spell-like ability usable at will. That's an inflict critical wounds every round, delivered by a punch, accompanied by a bonus kick (which can still deliver the spell if the punch misses). Now, admittedly, the save DC isn't amazing, and we'll often be doing half damage. But 2d8+10 extra damage is almost as good as 4d8+20. And we can pre-cast it to hold the charge, allowing us to carry a different ancestor into combat if we want (in which case we can still fire off inflict moderates afterwards as needed). Oh, and it gives us another least invocation, which is fine too.

    We've also hit the capstone level of the secret ingredient, and we can now have two ancestors active at a time. There are many combos! Well, okay, there are 20 combos. But at this point, every ancestor has something useful to contribute, and we can load in any of those 20 pairs and be happy. Rampaging gives us the extra muscle to power through higher ACs. Subtle lets our Hide compete against enemies with high Spot. Eldritch allows touch attacks, channeling, and occasionally some very light AoE damage. Enduring excels against spellcasters and other enemies who love forcing saves, and can protect against flurries of natural attacks. Ancient is at its best when enemies are stupid, or when they're attacking our touch AC.

    Spoiler: Level 20
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    The remainder of nosomatic chirurgeon is largely about advancing invocations, as we wrap up the build with humanoid shape. When we tire of stealth, we can now transform into a Large saurial at will in order to beef up our damage. Greater Dragonmark as our level 18 feat gives us heal, one of the best healing spells in the game. Nosomatic chirurgeon boosts its caster level, allowing it to heal the maximum possible amount, and as with CSW, it works well with unarmed strikes and Snap Kick for action economy. Oh, and the plague bearer and nosomatic touch abilities let us force even more saves when we punch enemies, I guess. Get some blinding sickness going. Why not?

    Spoiler: Skills
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    Boy, cross-class skills sure can be a pain in the butt. Concentration is the only skill we care about that is a class skill for all our classes, so it's easy enough to keep it maxed. Hide needs to be as high as possible in order for it to work at all, so we start maxing it as soon as Blend into Shadows comes online. Move Silently is allowed to lag behind a little because it's not as relevant in combat. Heal, Knowledge (arcana), and Knowledge (nature) are prerequisites, and I tried to pick them up in the levels where they were cheapest. Tumble can be a big help with skirmish, but space is tight, and it suffers a little from being cross-class at level 1, which is why there are 5 ranks in Jump—it's more efficient to get a +2 synergy bonus to Tumble and also be good at jumping than it is to put the same amount of ranks in cross-class Tumble and end up with the same +2 without the Jump bonus. Knowledge (history) is there for the synergy bonus to bardic knowledge; the ancestral lore ability says it works just like bardic knowledge, and that should include the skill synergy.

    Spoiler: Using the Secret Ingredient
    Show
    Combat Reflexes (Prerequisite): We get this feat as a bonus feat for being a monk, and it synergizes well with Snap Kick, Skirmish, Soulwarp Strike, and Ancient Ancestor.

    Dragontouched (Prerequisite): We get this feat as a bonus feat for being a DFA.

    Rampaging Ancestor: The traditional weakness of this ability is that it gives pseudo-full BAB without the extra attacks. Snap Kick and Skirmish both play around that weakness by making the character less reliant on full attacking.

    Ancestral Lore: With max ranks in Concentration and a synergy bonus from Knowledge (history), this ability is solidly supported, and can reliably provide a piece of useful backstory for every quest.

    Subtle Ancestor: With swift action hide in plain sight, the sneak attack and the massive stealth bonus are both incredibly relevant, and play into the strengths of the halfling race.

    Slippery Mind: We maintain good Will saves for all of our levels. Slippery Mind turns very good odds of passing the save into nearly unbeatable odds.

    Eldritch Ancestor: The Pestilential Touch ability allows the ray to be converted into a melee touch attack that can be combined with unarmed strikes, either on the fly or through a held charge. It can also serve as a decent option for ranged skirmish attacks.

    Rapid Calling: This ability is most valuable when all of the ancestors are useful to the build. I think we clear that bar; while they're not all created equal, our build isn't reliant on any particular ancestor (as the builds with more focus on sneak attack are), and we're designed to be more of a switch hitter, which is really the essence of the secret ingredient, IMO.

    Enduring Ancestor: We have naturally low Reflex saves from multiclassing, and this ancestor patches that weakness to make our Evasion ability more powerful.

    Detect Dragonblood: I set this character in Eberron to make use of dragonmarks, but a side benefit of being in Eberron is that this ability matters more. Do you know how many dragons are running around Khorvaire in disguise so that they can meddle in human affairs? Too damn many.

    Ancient Ancestor: In addition to Combat Reflexes (which everyone has), we can use Snap Kick to make two opportunity attacks instead of one.

    Double Synthesis: All you really need for this to be awesome is to take all 10 levels. It's a low bar, but we cleared it!

    Spoiler: Adaptation
    Show
    If your game uses action points, then an alternative build could make great use of Heir of Siberys (ECS) in place of the dragonmark feats. That would let you get the absolute all-star mass heal as a spell-like ability, plus Action Surge and potentially two other bonus feats, depending on how your DM thinks dragonfire adept interacts with the class’s unusually-worded advancement ability. To be clear, in this version, the bonus feats are a lot more powerful than advancing your breath weapon and invocations; between the bonus feats and your level 18 feat, you could be getting Dragonmark Mastery (Dra), Dragonmark Spellturning (Dra), and Mark of Stars (Dra)—all of which are incredibly strong effects. However, it's ambiguous whether DFA counts as a spellcasting class, and the bonus feats are only available if you have no spellcasting class to advance. Consequently, in my estimation, this version of the build would be more powerful, but less elegant.

    Spoiler: Sources
    Show
    CM: Soulwarp strike
    DM: Dragonfire adept
    Dra: Nosomatic chirurgeon
    DrU: Blend into Shadows
    ECS: Least/Lesser/Greater Dragonmark
    LoM: Darkstalker
    RDr: Entangling Exhalation
    RW: Halfling monk
    ToB: Snap Kick

    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  13. - Top - End - #43
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2012

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXI

    Who said monks have all the fun?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naughty Loafer
    I was born with a gift, they said. Even with several gifts. Gift for the Martial Arts - never like this. Gift of Dragon Blood - well, yes, somewhere in my family tree were dragons, I don't think it's the Gift, just a gift. Gift for the Psychic Arts - that is the way I’ve always wanted to go. And the Gift of disobedience - my favorite!
    Mother, father, all other family wanted to see me as one of the Dragon Descendants as my grandfather and his grandfather and so on. This has been passed down through our family for generations in this way - from grandfather to grandchild. Not a usual thing for changelings. I immediately decided - that is never going to happen! I wanted to be a Psion. Powerful and strong Egoist. Especially since I wasn’t particularly strong on my own, my main tool - my brain. But they still put me in the Tashalatora! Discipline will be good for your mind, they said. Masters will help you combine psychic and martial talents, they said. Discipline, my foot! But... Well, I say it, there were some good things. Libraries were full of various interesting books! The masters really knew a lot about the Psychic Arts and... There was her. I named her Vexy, my main enemy! She was all about what's proper! And she goes to the Dragon Descendant.
    We argued once. I didn't want to hear about Martial Art training all the time I was in the monastery and she told me that I never became Descendant. I wanted to tell her I wasn’t going to, but something stubborn inside me said that I can easily do without all of this and come to the goal in my own unique way. She said it was bull**** and I’m stupid and if I somehow succeed, she’ll marry me! It was a challenge!
    Of course I newer want such a stuck-up to be my wife, but I couldn’t back out! I went to the libraries. Books said you need a truly Still mind if you want to become Dragon Descendant and the only way to Still mind is being a monk. Nonsense. Nonsense, I said, and continued to search. I found a second option. Some bookworms devoted to knowledge itself could obtain the same Still mind feature, but... it isn't unique, I needed my own way. Well, I'm an egoist, I thought. We are good at getting something from others. Copying, repeating. I need some creature with the same Still mind and win will be in my pocket!
    I’ve been searching for years and decades. Several times I returned to the Tashalatora, several times met Vexy. She always laughed at me: Have you found your unique way, Descendant? But I'd never stop looking. There were several promising options, but... Kuo-toa monitors were an unfortunate mistake. They turned out to be a product of training like regular monks. As well others creatures: Armand Warden, Rhek Chaosgrinder, even Gravetouched Ghoul was just undead monk!
    I almost lowered my hands, but when I found it! This perfect creatures. Truly embodiment of the Still mind - modrones. It was a difficult task for me to research them in their natural habitat. Another plane with different laws. Very very strong laws! But I found it! Hierarch Secundus. That's what I'm always searching for!
    It remains only to learn Greater Metamorphosis power and I'll become Dragon Descendant without any of this martial training. Ha, I want to see her face when she finds out!!

    Spoiler: Portrait
    Show


    CN Changeling Changeling Egoist 17/Dragon Descendant 3

    Spoiler: Abilities
    Show
    Abilities Initial Middle Age (12th lvl) Levels Total
    STR 9 -1 8
    DEX 11 -1 10
    CON 15 -1 14
    INT 18 1 5 24
    WIS 9 1 10
    CHA 11 1 12


    Spoiler: Levels
    Show
    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Reflex Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st Changeling Egoist 1 0 0 0 2 32: {+4} Autohypnosis: 4; {+4} Bluff: 4; {+4} Concentration: 4; {+4} Disguise: 4; {+3} Heal: 3; {+2} Knowledge (Arcane): 2; {+1} Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 1; {+1} Knowledge (Local): 1; {+1} Knowledge (Nature): 1; {+2} Knowledge (Psionics): 2; {+1} Knowledge (Religion): 1; {+1} Knowledge (The planes): 1; {+4} Psicraft: 4; Kung Fu Genius Body control, discipline (egoist)
    2nd Egoist 2 1 0 0 3 6: {+1} Autohypnosis: 5; Bluff: 4; {+1} Concentration: 5; Disguise: 4; {+1} Heal: 4; {+1} Knowledge (Arcane): 3; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 1; Knowledge (Local): 1; Knowledge (Nature): 1; {+1} Knowledge (Psionics): 3; Knowledge (Religion): 1; Knowledge (The planes): 1; {+1} Psicraft: 5;
    3rd Changeling Egoist 3 1 1 1 3 8: {+1} Autohypnosis: 6; {+2} Bluff: 6; Concentration: 5; {+2} Disguise: 6; Heal: 4; Knowledge (Arcane): 3; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 1; Knowledge (Local): 1; Knowledge (Nature): 1; Knowledge (Psionics): 3; Knowledge (Religion): 1; Knowledge (The planes): 1; {+1} Psicraft: 6; {+2} Assume Quirk; Monastic Training (Psion) Everchanging psicrystal
    4th Egoist 4 2 1 1 4 6: {+1} Autohypnosis: 7; Bluff: 6; {+2} Concentration: 7; Disguise: 6; Heal: 4; Knowledge (Arcane): 3; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 1; Knowledge (Local): 1; Knowledge (Nature): 1; Knowledge (Psionics): 3; {+1} Knowledge (Religion): 2; {+1} Knowledge (The planes): 2; {+1} Psicraft: 7; Assume Quirk;
    5th Changeling Egoist 5 2 1 1 4 8: {+1} Autohypnosis: 8; {+2} Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 8; {+2} Disguise: 8; {+1} Heal: 5; Knowledge (Arcane): 3; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 1; Knowledge (Local): 1; Knowledge (Nature): 1; Knowledge (Psionics): 3; Knowledge (Religion): 2; Knowledge (The planes): 2; {+1} Psicraft: 8; Assume Quirk; Extra powers known
    6th Egoist 6 3 2 2 5 6: {+1} Autohypnosis: 9; Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 9; Disguise: 8; Heal: 5; Knowledge (Arcane): 3; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 1; {+1} Knowledge (Local): 2; {+1} Knowledge (Nature): 2; {+1} Knowledge (Psionics): 4; Knowledge (Religion): 2; Knowledge (The planes): 2; {+1} Psicraft: 9; Assume Quirk; Dragontouched
    7th Egoist 7 3 2 2 5 6: {+1} Autohypnosis: 10; Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 10; Disguise: 8; Heal: 5; {+1} Knowledge (Arcane): 4; {+1} Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 2; {+1} Knowledge (Local): 3; Knowledge (Nature): 2; Knowledge (Psionics): 4; Knowledge (Religion): 2; Knowledge (The planes): 2; {+1} Psicraft: 10; Assume Quirk;
    8th Egoist 8 4 2 2 6 7: {+1} Autohypnosis: 11; Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 11; Disguise: 8; Heal: 5; Knowledge (Arcane): 4; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 2; Knowledge (Local): 3; {+1} Knowledge (Nature): 3; {+1} Knowledge (Psionics): 5; {+1} Knowledge (Religion): 3; {+1} Knowledge (The planes): 3; {+1} Psicraft: 11; Assume Quirk;
    9th Egoist 9 4 3 3 6 7: {+1} Autohypnosis: 12; Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 12; Disguise: 8; Heal: 5; {+1} Knowledge (Arcane): 5; {+1} Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 3; Knowledge (Local): 3; Knowledge (Nature): 3; {+2} Knowledge (Psionics): 7; Knowledge (Religion): 3; Knowledge (The planes): 3; {+1} Psicraft: 12; Assume Quirk; Tashalatora (Psion)
    10th Egoist 10 5 3 3 7 7: {+1} Autohypnosis: 13; Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 13; Disguise: 8; Heal: 5; Knowledge (Arcane): 5; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 3; Knowledge (Local): 3; Knowledge (Nature): 3; Knowledge (Psionics): 7; {+2} Knowledge (Religion): 5; {+2} Knowledge (The planes): 5; {+1} Psicraft: 13; Assume Quirk; Overchannel Bonus feat
    11th Egoist 11 5 3 3 7 7: {+1} Autohypnosis: 14; Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 14; Disguise: 8; Heal: 5; Knowledge (Arcane): 5; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 3; {+2} Knowledge (Local): 5; {+2} Knowledge (Nature): 5; Knowledge (Psionics): 7; Knowledge (Religion): 5; Knowledge (The planes): 5; {+1} Psicraft: 14; Assume Quirk;
    12th Egoist 12 6 4 4 8 8: {+1} Autohypnosis: 15; Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 15; Disguise: 8; Heal: 5; Knowledge (Arcane): 5; {+2} Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 5; Knowledge (Local): 5; Knowledge (Nature): 5; Knowledge (Psionics): 7; {+1} Knowledge (Religion): 6; {+2} Knowledge (The planes): 7; {+1} Psicraft: 15; Assume Quirk; Psychic Meditation
    13th Egoist 13 6 4 4 8 8: {+1} Autohypnosis: 16; Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 16; Disguise: 8; Heal: 5; Knowledge (Arcane): 5; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 5; Knowledge (Local): 5; Knowledge (Nature): 5; Knowledge (Psionics): 7; {+1} Knowledge (Religion): 7; {+4} Knowledge (The planes): 11; {+1} Psicraft: 16; Assume Quirk;
    14th Egoist 14 7 4 4 9 8: {+1} Autohypnosis: 17; Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 17; Disguise: 8; Heal: 5; Knowledge (Arcane): 5; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 5; Knowledge (Local): 5; Knowledge (Nature): 5; Knowledge (Psionics): 7; {+1} Knowledge (Religion): 8; {+4} Knowledge (The planes): 15; {+1} Psicraft: 17; Assume Quirk;
    15th Egoist 15 7 5 5 9 8: {+1} Autohypnosis: 18; Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 18; Disguise: 8; Heal: 5; {+2} Knowledge (Arcane): 7; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 5; Knowledge (Local): 5; Knowledge (Nature): 5; Knowledge (Psionics): 7; Knowledge (Religion): 8; {+3} Knowledge (The planes): 18; {+1} Psicraft: 18; Assume Quirk; Extend Power, Practiced Manifester Bonus feat
    16th Egoist 16 8 5 5 10 8: {+1} Autohypnosis: 19; Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 19; Disguise: 8; Heal: 5; Knowledge (Arcane): 7; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 5; Knowledge (Local): 5; Knowledge (Nature): 5; {+4} Knowledge (Psionics): 11; Knowledge (Religion): 8; {+1} Knowledge (The planes): 19; {+1} Psicraft: 19; Assume Quirk;
    17th Egoist 17 8 5 5 10 8: {+1} Autohypnosis: 20; Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 20; Disguise: 8; Heal: 5; Knowledge (Arcane): 7; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 5; Knowledge (Local): 5; Knowledge (Nature): 5; {+4} Knowledge (Psionics): 15; Knowledge (Religion): 8; {+1} Knowledge (The planes): 20; {+1} Psicraft: 20; Assume Quirk; * *
    18th Dragon Descendant 1 8 7 5 12 10: Autohypnosis: 20; Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 21; Disguise: 8; Heal: 5; {+5} Hide: 5; Knowledge (Arcane): 7; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 5; Knowledge (Local): 5; Knowledge (Nature): 5; Knowledge (Psionics): 15; Knowledge (Religion): 8; Knowledge (The planes): 20; {+4} Move Silently: 4; Psicraft: 20; Assume Quirk; Deep Psychic Meditation Monk abilities, rampaging ancestor
    19th Dragon Descendant 2 9 8 5 13 10: Autohypnosis: 20; Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 22; Disguise: 8; Heal: 5; {+4} Hide: 9; Knowledge (Arcane): 7; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 5; Knowledge (Local): 5; Knowledge (Nature): 5; Knowledge (Psionics): 15; Knowledge (Religion): 8; Knowledge (The planes): 20; {+5} Move Silently: 9; Psicraft: 20; Assume Quirk; Ancestral lore
    20th Dragon Descendant 3 10 8 6 13 11: Autohypnosis: 20; Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 23; Disguise: 8; Heal: 5; {+5} Hide: 14; Knowledge (Arcane): 7; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 5; Knowledge (Local): 5; Knowledge (Nature): 5; Knowledge (Psionics): 15; Knowledge (Religion): 8; Knowledge (The planes): 20; {+5} Move Silently: 14; Psicraft: 20; Assume Quirk; Subtle ancestor


    Spoiler: Psionics
    Show
    Level Class New Powers (Level) Maximum Power Level PP
    1st Egoist 1 Inertial Armor (1st), Hammer (1st), Force Screen (1st) 1st 2+2
    2nd Egoist 2 Call to Mind (1st), Detect Psionics (1st) 1st 6+4
    3rd Egoist 3 Animal Affinity (2nd) 2nd 11+6
    4th Egoist 4 Feat Leech (2nd), Larval Flayers (2nd) 2nd 17+8
    5th Egoist 5 Dispel Psionics (3th), Body Adjustment (3th), Chameleon (2nd, Sub), Hustle (3rd, Sub), Metamorphosis (4th, Sub), Thicken Skin (1st, Sub) 3rd 25+10
    6th Egoist 6 Psionic Blast (3rd), Energy Lance (3rd) 3rd 35+12
    7th Egoist 7 Freedom of Movement, Psionic (4th), Psychic Vampire (4th) 4th 46+14
    8th Egoist 8 Psychic Reformation (4th), Energy Flash (4th) 4th 58+20
    9th Egoist 9 Plane Shift, Psionic (5th), Psionic Revivify (5th) 5th 72+22
    10th Egoist 10 True Seeing, Psionic (5th), Adapt Body (5th) 5th 88+25
    11th Egoist 11 Disintegrate, Psionic (6th) 6th 106+27
    12th Egoist 12 Temporal Acceleration (6th), Restoration, Psionic (6th) 6th 126+36
    13th Egoist 13 Moment of Prescience, Psionic (7th) 7th 147+39
    14th Egoist 14 Energy Wave (7th), Sequester, Psionic (7th) 7th 170+42
    15th Egoist 15 Bend Reality (8th) 8th 195+45
    16th Egoist 16 True Metabolism (8th), Teleport, Psionic Greater (8th) 8th 221+48
    17th Egoist 17 Metamorphosis, Greater (9th) 9th 250+51
    20th Egoist 17 - 9th 250+59
    All powers from Expanded Psionics Handbook and Complete Psionic.


    Spoiler: Explanation
    Show
    I want to say thanks to Mark Jindra, Scott Greene and Penny Williams, designers and editor of the Manual of the Planes Web Enhancement. It was a 3.0 time, they did what they could.
    Well, let's look at the Secundus.
    A secundus appears as an incredibly thin, tall humanoid with a long, narrow face and deep-set eyes. Though it has no class levels, it has all the class features of a 13th-level monk.
    and this class features are located in the statistics block in Special Attacks and Special Qualities. So I can get them via Greater Metamorphosis. At least Ex and Su ones. There are some issues, because 3.0 monk and 3.5 monk are slightly different, but nothing we can't update to the actual redaction of the rules.
    Most important. Still Mind is Ex SQ. Improved Unarmed Strike and Combat Reflexes are bonus feats. And Still Mind, while it was received as a racial feature, still is a class feature, because "Secundus has all the class features of a 13th-level monk."

    Now, if we add up all other, Naughty Loafer gets following from Secundus:
    1st level monk's bonus feat - Stunning Fist.
    2nd level monk's bonus feat - of course it's Combat Reflexes.
    6th level monk's bonus feat - I selected Improved Trip.
    Flurry of blows as 13th-level monk, plus 17 effective levels from Tashalatora feat.
    Unarmed strike as 13 (secundus) + 17 (tashalatora) + 3 (dragon descendant) = 33th-level monk.
    Well, both don't increase after 20th, so they are as 20th - 4d8 damage and two extra attacks without penalties, plus integrated into Unarmed strike ability Improved Unarmed Strike feat.
    AC Bonus as 33th-level monk - it's Int bonus (Kung Fu Genius) + 6 (Epic Monk).
    Fast Movement as 16th-level monk (Tashalatora doesn't apply here) - +50 ft. to 30 ft. base speed.
    Evasion and its Improved version, Still mind, Ki strike (magic), Ki strike (lawful), Slow fall 60 ft., Purity of body, Wholeness of body, Diamond body, Abundant step - it's Su in 3.5, not Sp as it was in 3.0, Diamond soul.

    Plus, secundus's own abilities:
    Telepathy 420 miles.
    Outsider and Modron Traits (Darkvision 60 ft.; cannot be raised or resurrected, Immune to mind-influencing effects; not subject to subdual damage, ability damage, ability drain, or energy drain; not subject to critical hits.)
    Resistances 10 to acid, cold, and fire, SR 33, DR 15/... something? (If we look at the Inevitable, Quarut (had 40/+4 before update, too) it should be 15/chaotic and adamantine), Fly 50 ft. (good), +20 natural AC, Str 24, Dex 18, Con 22, Large Outsider size and type.

    With my PP pool, Deep Psychic Meditation, Extend Power feat and ML 24 (Overchannel, Body control, Practiced Manifester) I could be secundus about thirteen and a half hours every day. It should be enough to qualify for Dragon Descendant.


    Spoiler: What did I get from Dragon Descendant?
    Show
    First and foremost - I won the bet! Plus, I found useful the Subtle Ancestor. 2d6 sneak attack damage is good and I upped my Hide and Move Silently last three levels. And of course extra 10 ft. of speed bonus!


    Spoiler: Sources
    Show
    Type Name Book Page
    Race Changeling Eberron Campaign Setting 12
    Class Psion (Egoist) Expanded Psionics Handbook 19
    Prestige Class Dragon Descendant Dragon Magic 34
    Class variant Changeling Egoist Races of Eberron 121
    Feat Kung Fu Genius Dragon Compendium 101
    Feat Monastic Training Expanded Psionics Handbook 57
    Feat Dragontouched Dragon Magic 18
    Feat Tashalatora Secrets of Sarlona 119
    Feat Overchannel Expanded Psionics Handbook 49
    Feat Psychic Meditation Chance Favors the Prepared Mind link
    Feat Extend Power Expanded Psionics Handbook 46
    Feat Practiced Manifester Complete Psionic 57
    Feat Deep Psychic Meditation Chance Favors the Prepared Mind link
    Skill Trick Assume Quirk Complete Scoundrel 85
    Creature Secundus A Manual of the Planes Web Enhancement link
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  14. - Top - End - #44
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Dec 2012

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXI

    A horse is a horse, of course of course. Hahaha, unless...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Neighsayer
    Scene: A WOMAN, dressed in peasant garb, stands in a field. A MAN, riding a HORSE, comes up in speaking range to her. The man's clothing indicates an upper-class background. The horse is indescribable. Somewhere unseen in the distance, a bard plays a familiar tune that you're sure you've heard before.

    MAN: "Behold my steed! Is it not magnificent?"

    MAN: "Observe it with all your senses… see it, smell it, taste it!"

    WOMAN: "Why yes, it tastes like sweet fruit."

    MAN: "All I have to do is stroke it like so, and it takes on all sorts of wondrous qualities. It does impressions of the layers of existence! See, now it's Arborea… and now it's Baator! It then turns back when you tug on its—"

    WOMAN, interrupting: "I don't think you should say that here! Please don't get The Viscount in trouble."

    MAN: "Oh, you believe that's unacceptable? In that case, perhaps I shouldn't mention where I store the potions. Delicious potions. Ah, delicious potions!"

    The two stand for a moment without speaking, but they appear to be enjoying the music played by the unseen bard in the distance.

    MAN: "If you were to ride my steed, I could take you across the Prime Material, the Inner Planes, the Transitive Planes, the Outer Planes, all along the Great Wheel, and also to the other places as well!"

    WOMAN: "I'm fairly certain that there isn't much past the Great Wheel."

    The woman moves closer to the horse and reaches out towards it. The unseen bard's song comes to an abrupt, jarring halt, as though their instrument had been suddenly destroyed. The man's eyes fill with a terrifying wrath.

    MAN: "SILENCE, FOOL! DON'T TOUCH MY HORSE!"




    Mr. Archibald Neighsayer
    (Literally no one calls him Archibald)

    Race: human
    Alignment: lawful neutral
    Monk, fighter, devoted defender, dragon descendant, crusader


    Spoiler: Tables
    Show


    Spoiler: Build
    Show

    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Reflex Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st Overwhelming Attack Monk 1 0 2 2 2 24: {+4} Ride: 4; {+4} Diplomacy: 4; {+4} Concentration: 4; {+4 CC} Search: 2; {+4} Spot: 4; {+4} Sense Motive: 4; Improved Unarmed Strike (monk), Power Attack (overwhelming attack monk), Dragontouched, Wild Cohort (human) Monk unarmed strike, decisive strike, monk AC bonus
    2nd (regular) Monk 2 1 3 3 3 6: {+1} Ride: 5; {+1} Diplomacy: 5; {+1} Concentration: 5; {+1 CC} Search: 2.5; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; {+2 CC} K: Dungeoneering: 1; Combat Reflexes (monk) Invisible fist
    3rd Monk 3 2 3 3 3 6: {+1} Ride: 6; {+1} Diplomacy: 6; {+1} Concentration: 6; {+1 CC} Search: 3; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; {+2 CC} K: Dungeoneering: 2; Mounted Combat Still mind
    4th Fighter 1 3 5 3 3 4: Ride: 6; Diplomacy: 6; {+2 CC} Concentration: 7; Search: 3; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+2} Handle Animal: 2; Trample (fighter)
    5th Fighter 2 4 6 3 3 4: Ride: 6; Diplomacy: 6; {+2 CC} Concentration: 8; Search: 3; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+2} Handle Animal: 4; Weapon Focus: Lance (fighter)
    6th Dragon Descendent 1 4 8 3 5 6: {+2} Ride: 8; Diplomacy: 6; Concentration: 8; {+2 CC} Search: 4; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+2 CC} Handle Animal: 5; Alertness Monk abilities, rampaging ancestor
    7th Dragon Descendent 2 5 9 3 6 6: {+2} Ride: 10; {+2} Diplomacy: 8; Concentration: 8; Search: 4; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+2 CC} Handle Animal: 6; Ancestral lore
    8th Devoted Defender 1 6 11 5 6 4: {+1} Ride: 11; Diplomacy: 8; Concentration: 8; Search: 4; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+3 CC} Handle Animal: 7.5; AC Bonus, harm's way
    9th Devoted Defender 2 7 12 6 6 4: {+1} Ride: 12; Diplomacy: 8; Concentration: 8; Search: 4; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+3 CC} Handle Animal: 9; Spectral Skirmisher Defensive strike
    10th Dragon Descendent 3 8 12 7 6 6: {+1} Ride: 13; {+3} Diplomacy: 11; Concentration: 8; Search: 4; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+2 CC} Handle Animal: 10; Subtle ancestor
    11th Dragon Descendent 4 9 13 7 6 6: {+1} Ride: 14; {+3} Diplomacy: 14; Concentration: 8; Search: 4; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+2 CC} Handle Animal: 11; Slippery mind
    12th Dragon Descendent 5 9 13 7 6 6: {+1} Ride: 15; {+1} Diplomacy: 15; Concentration: 8; Search: 4; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+4 CC} Handle Animal: 13; Undermountain Tactics Eldritch ancestor
    13th Dragon Descendent 6 10 14 8 7 6: {+1} Ride: 16; {+1} Diplomacy: 16; Concentration: 8; Search: 4; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+4 CC} Handle Animal: 15; Rapid calling
    14th Dragon Descendent 7 11 14 8 7 6: {+1} Ride: 17; {+1} Diplomacy: 17; Concentration: 8; Search: 4; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+4 CC} Handle Animal: 17; Enduring ancestor
    15th Crusader 1 12 16 8 7 6: {+1} Ride: 18; {+1} Diplomacy: 18; Concentration: 8; Search: 4; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+2 CC} Handle Animal: 18; {+2} Balance: 2; White Raven Defense Steely resolve 5, furious counterstrike, maneuvers
    16th Dragon Descendent 8 13 17 8 8 6: {+1} Ride: 19; {+1} Diplomacy: 19; Concentration: 8; Search: 4; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+2 CC} Handle Animal: 19; {+2} Balance: 4; detect dragonblood
    17th Dragon Descendent 9 13 17 9 8 6: {+1} Ride: 20; {+1} Diplomacy: 20; Concentration: 8; Search: 4; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+2 CC} Handle Animal: 20; {+2} Balance: 6; Ancient ancestor
    18th Dragon Descendent 10 14 18 9 9 6: {+1} Ride: 21; {+1} Diplomacy: 21; Concentration: 8; Search: 4; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+2 CC} Handle Animal: 21; {+2} Balance: 8; Clarion Commander Double synthesis
    19th Crusader 2 15 19 9 9 6: {+1} Ride: 22; {+1} Diplomacy: 22; Concentration: 8; Search: 4; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+2 CC} Handle Animal: 22; {+2} Balance: 10; Indomitable soul
    20th Crusader 3 16 19 10 10 6: {+1} Ride: 23; {+1} Diplomacy: 23; Concentration: 8; Search: 4; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+2 CC} Handle Animal: 23; {+2} Balance: 12; Zealous surge


    Spoiler: Maneuvers
    Show

    ECL Level taken Initiator level Maneuver Tome of Battle page # Prerequisites Short Explanation
    15 Crusader 1 8 Leading the Attack 91 n/a Allies gain +4 bonus on attacks against foe you strike Basically this is just one of the only White Raven maneuvers with no prereqs, but still, buffing allies is useful.
    15 Crusader 1 8 Vanguard Strike 62 n/a Allies gain +4 bonus on attacks against target Basically the same thing as Leading the Attack, but for Devoted Spirit. Useful for the same reasons.
    15 Crusader 1 8 Divine Surge 58 One Devoted Spirit maneuver Deal +8d8 damage You know, sometimes you just want to deal +8d8 damage, and that's okay.
    15 Crusader 1 8 Defensive Rebuke 58 One Devoted Spirit maneuver Foes you strike must attack you or provoke attack of opportunity Considering that this character's whole deal is about taking aggro and making AoOs as a result, this really feels like an obvious choice. Use that DR from enduring ancestor! Get extra ancient ancestor attacks!
    15 Crusader 1 8 White Raven Strike 94 One White Raven maneuver Deal +4d6 damage, target becomes flat-footed Honestly I can't be bothered to justify taking White Raven Tactics, so let's instead just pick a nice solid +damage maneuver.
    15 Crusader 1 8 Leading the Charge (stance) 92 n/a Allies deal +1 dmg/initiator level on charge attacks Per the class feature language, your first stance has to be a 1st-level one, but this one's really good anyway. Not only is it White Raven and therefore it triggers White Raven Defense, but it's also a great damage boost for Mhia!
    19 Crusader 2 10.5 Tactics of the Wolf (stance) 93 One White Raven maneuver You and allies deal +1 dmg / 2 initiator levels against flanked targets Mhia uses the island of blades stance, so Mr. Neighsayer is Mhia are always flanking adjacent enemies. This is a nice set of bonus damage, and it's multipliable (on a crit, on an attack with a lance from a charging mount, etc.)!
    20 Crusader 3 11.5 Flanking Maneuver 91 Two White Raven Maneuvers Hit flanked target, allies gain free attack As indicated above, because of Mhia's island of blades stand, flanking is easy.



    Spoiler: Quick guide
    Show

    Thing Prereqs? Source Basics Why it's cool
    Social class n/a Cityscape 59 "Each character is permitted to select three skills from a list determined by her social class. [. . . ] they become permanent class skills for the character." One of the skills associated with being upper class is Ride. We only need Ride as a permanent class skill (no need to pick three of them), but since Ride features heavily in what we're doing but only relatively sparsely in the actual classes we need, this helps a LOT.
    Dragontouched CHA 11 Dragon Magic 18 Gain dragonblood subtype, +1 HP, +1 Listen/Search/Spot, +1 on saves vs. paralysis and sleep This is just a prereq for the secret ingredient. Sorry.
    Wild Cohort n/a Web Gain a cohort that functions similarly to a druid's animal companion; scales with your character level. HORSE. This is where the horse comes from! It scales with level! It's friendly and reliable! It can arguably be replaced if it dies because the feat still says you have the benefit and the feat is still valid even if it dies!
    Overwhelming attack monk Monk level 1 Unearthed Arcana 52 Instead of Stunning Fist or Improved Grapple, get Power Attack as a 1st level monk feat. Power Attack sets us up nicely for later and ends up being more useful than Stunning Fist would.
    Decisive Strike Monk level 1 PHB2 51 Instead of flurry of blows, make a single attack with a monk weapon as a full-round action; it does double damage, as do all your other attacks for the round. This is an alternate strategy that we'll describe down the line, but more to the point, unlike flurry of blows, decisive strike isn't lost when you wear armor, so we don't have to be running around naked in order to get the benefits. This might not come up much, though.
    Combat Reflexes n/a PHB Instead of making 1 attack of opportunity per round, you can make 1 + DEX such attacks, and you can AoO while flat-footed. Per UA 52, a monk can abandon her fighting style at any time by taking a different feat at level 2 or 6, which is exactly what's happening here. A standard PHB monk is allowed to take Combat Reflexes as a bonus feat at 2nd level. This is a prereq for the SI, and it's also key to our strategy of taking advantage of attacks of opportunity.
    Invisible Fist Monk level 2 Exemplars of Evil 21 Instead of evasion, gain the ability to go invisible for 1 round as an immediate action, usable once per three rounds One of my favorite ACFs! This is a great defensive move early on. It doesn't have a requirement to be lightly armored or unarmored, so it works even once we switch to real armor. Once Spectral Skirmisher comes online, it will also be a great way to get extra attacks.
    Mounted Combat Ride 1 rank PHB If your mount is attacked, make a Ride check to use instead of its AC. This is a prereq, and it also does a great job of keeping a mount alive! Ride checks can scale way faster than AC normally would, so it can make your mount extremely hard to harm.
    Still mind Monk level 3 PHB +2 on saves vs. enchantment. Be honest, did you remember what still mind actually did before we started this round? Anyway, this is a prereq.
    Trample Ride 1 rank, Mounted Combat PHB When using overrun on a mount, the target cannot choose to avoid you, and your mount can make a hoof attack against a target you knock down. This is an extremely key part of what we're doing. I won't summarize this; you'll need to look at the full description, please.
    Weapon Focus BAB +1 PHB +1 to hit with chosen weapon Preeeeeeereq
    Alertness n/a PHB +2 Spot/Listen Preeeeeeereq
    Dragon Descendant Concentration 8, Dragontouched, Improved Unarmed Strike, Combat Reflexes, still mind class feature Dragon Magic 34 " ""A secretive monastic order, dragon descendants tap into the
    power of their draconic heritage to call on their ancestors in
    times of need. Then they fight in synthesis with the spirit of
    a long-dead dragon that bolsters both offense and defense."" "
    See features/writeup
    Rampaging ancestor Dragon descendant level 1 Dragon Magic 34 +1/+2/+3 on attack/damage rolls; immune to fear Every +1 counts, right?
    Ancestral lore Dragon descendant level 2 Dragon Magic 35 1/week, roll bardic knowledge using Concentration *muffled sobbing*
    Spectral Skirmisher BAB +6 PHB2 83 If you are attacked while invisible, the attacker provokes an AoO from you. Using that Combat Reflexes prereq! Since invisible fist means that we can go invisible arbitrarily when we're attacked, that means any attack against us (at least every few rounds) can trigger a retaliation from us.
    Devoted Defender BAB +5, Alertness, Weapon Focus (any melee), Search 4, Sense Motive 4, Spot 4 Sword and Fist 14 "The devoted defender is a professional guardian. She is an individual who is skilled at protecting an individual client from harm, often by taking her charge's place as the target of threats and attacks." See features/writeup
    Harm's way Devoted defender 1 Sword and Fist 14 Designate a specific ally as your charge; if you're w/in 5 ft of the ally and they get attacked, you can take the attack instead (no action). Since several dragon descendant features are defensive in nature, it makes sense to show them off by throwing ourselves in harm's way! This also provides a further layer of protection for keeping the horse safe.
    Defensive strike Devoted defender 2 Sword and Fist 14 When your charge gets attacked in melee, make an attack of opportunity against the attacker. How dare you touch my horse! Great way of generating AoOs to use with Combat Reflexes.
    Subtle ancestor Dragon descendant 3 Dragon Magic 35 2d6 sneak attack, +level on Hide/MS I dunno, friends, maybe if you've got a reliable flanking buddy this might be better than rampaging, but...
    Slippery Mind Dragon descendant 4 Dragon Magic 35 " ""If a [character] with slippery mind is affected by an enchantment spell or effect and
    fails her saving throw, she can attempt it again 1 round later at the same DC."""
    It's a purely passive feature so it's hard to showcase, but I think this is an underrated ability. Getting a second chance is actually really nice. And hey, Dragontouched provides a +1 on saves vs. enchantments!
    Undermountain Tactics BAB +6, K: Dungeoneering 2 Dungeonscape 46 If you hit an opponent twice on your turn while you have the high ground advantage, target must make a Balance check or fall prone. Hey, did you know that a mounted combatant has the high ground advantage against a nonmounted combatant? It's true! So this means that attacking from horseback forces a Balance check (which many creatures will have no or minimal ranks in) against falling prone. (Also, note that the prereq has an OR in it, not an AND, after the racial component. You have to be a dwarf or a gnome OR you have to have BAB +6 and 2 ranks in K: Dungeoneering.)
    Eldritch ancestor Dragon descendant 5 Dragon Magic 35 Gain a spell-like ray that deals 1d6 damage per two levels of dragon descendant. I'm trying, but I can't come up with a compelling reason why "warlock, but worse, and way below ECL" is useful in a general case. I guess just switch to it if you need a ranged option in the moment?
    Rapid calling Dragon descendant 6 Dragon Magic 35 Switch ancestor spirit as a swift action instead of as a standard. Action economy! Action economy is always a winner. Switch to subtle ancestor when you've got a flank ready. Switch to eldritch ancestor when you can't reach someone. Switch to rampaging when you just want to hit things. This is nice!
    Enduring ancestor Dragon descendant 7 Dragon Magic 35 Gain bonus to saves and DR/cold iron based on dragon descendant level You're hurling yourself in harm's way to protect your beloved horse, so why wouldn't you want a noticeable amount of DR/cold iron?
    White Raven Defense One White Raven stance Tome of Battle 34 +1 AC while in a white raven stance and next to an ally This is almost entirely just a prereq, but hey, you're always next to an ally when you're mounted!
    Crusader n/a Tome of Battle 9 Martial adept who doesn't have to spend an action to refresh maneuvers This is the best way to get some White Raven to open up White Raven Defense and then Clarion Commander.
    Furious Counterstrike, Steely Resolve 5 Crusader 1 Tome of Battle 10 When you take damage, you can delay taking up to 5 points of that damage for one round, at which point your delayed damage pool clears and the damage goes into your normal HP instead. While there is damage in your pool, you gain a +1 bonus on attack/damage rolls. These are so tightly linked that it doesn't make sense to separate them. 5 points of delayed damage is trivial by this ECL, but it didn't cost anything to get the ability, and every +1 adds up.
    Detect Dragonblood Dragon descendant 8 Dragon Magic 36 A 1st-level detect spell at will for telling if stuff is dragony. *louder, no longer muffled sobbing*
    Ancient ancestor Dragon descendant 9 Dragon Magic 35 Bonus to AC; counterattack when attacked in melee. Oh now we're getting somewhere! This is hilarious when throwing yourself in harm's way.
    Double synthesis Dragon descendant 10 Dragon Magic 36 Two ancestors at once Oooh, now we can have ancient ancestor and enduring ancestor at once!
    Clarion Commander BAB +6, White Raven Defense, two White Raven maneuvers Tome of Battle 10 Hit an opponent, then use a move action to make DC 20 Diplo check; opponent then provokes if you hit it again next turn. See the deeper writeup for this, but basically this is a way of using those unspent move actions.
    Indomitable Soul Crusader 2 Tome of Battle 11 +CHA to Will saves Simple numerical bonus, nothing to it. Probably won't actually have a bonus, but whatever, it's not the point of the level.
    Zealous Surge Crusader 3 Tome of Battle 11 Reroll a saving throw 1/day Succeeding on a saving throw is preferable to failing a saving throw, even if it only comes 1/day.


    Spoiler: Base stats
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    Abilities Initial Race / Template 4th 8th 12th 16th 20th
    STR 15 1 2 3 4 5
    DEX 16
    CON 14
    INT 12
    WIS 8
    CHA 11





    Spoiler: What am I even doing
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    Mr. Neighsayer came from a wealthy background. There were rumors that the family fortune came from the hoards of dragons who had married into the family ages ago, but it's hard to prove that. Still, he was taught that someone of his stature should never walk when they could ride, and he took that lesson to heart. As a member of the idle rich, he could afford to waste his time joining a monastic order for a while before getting a real job and actually starting to contribute to society. He started by joining the monks of the order of the Overwhelming Attack, but he was immediately displeased with them when he found out that, despite learning Power Attack at level 1, he couldn't use it because monks don't have any BAB at level 1. Feeling lied to, he left the Overwhelming Attackers and went back to general monastic training for a couple more levels before realizing, with the clarity of his still mind training, that monks can't do anything and that they exist really just as a source of prereqs for real classes.

    His glorious steed, Mhia the heavy warhorse, serves him well. Wild Cohort scales with character level! Mounted Combat is great for keeping Mhia safe. Trample, I feel, is underrated, and we'll get into the details a bit later down. Fighter is important for allowing weapon/armor proficiency, because running around naked is not wise. Mr. Neighsayer prefers a lance (two-handed for Power Attack reasons despite being mounted most of the time) and actual armor, as affordable.

    Things get juicy when Mr. Neighsayer takes a couple of levels of devoted defender, designating Mhia as his charge. Now, whenever anyone dares to target his precious horse with an attack, he can immediately punish that insolence with an AoO, and he can also take the hit for his charge. Since a mount and a rider occupy the same space anyway, the "switch positions" clause doesn't really cause any problems since you end up in the same space on the battlefield no matter what!

    At this point we need to have a lesson in How Mounted Combat In 3.5 Is Jacked Up. Class is in session. Let's begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rules Compendium 89
    If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge.
    Quote Originally Posted by Player's Handbook 118
    A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount.
    So first off, we can see that it's clear that the mount, not the rider, takes the charge action. The rider may or may not be set up to take an attack at the end of the charge (after all, it says "if" you make an attack; it's not guaranteed that you will, whereas if it were your charge then it would be quite easily assumed that you would). Your own actions are not spent on the charge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rules Compendium 108
    You can attempt an overrun as a standard action taken during your movement. This is an exception to the rule that you can’t take a standard action during movement. With an overrun, you attempt to plow past or over a defender and move through that creature’s space as you move.
    Quote Originally Posted by Player's Handbook 102
    Trample: Benefit: When you attempt to overrun an opponent while mounted, your target may not choose to avoid you. Your mount may make one hoof attack against any target you knock down, gaining the standard +4 bonus on attack rolls against prone targets.
    Quote Originally Posted by Player's Handbook 158
    If you attempt an overrun while mounted, your mount makes the Strength check to determine the success or failure of the overrun attack (and applies its size modifier,
    rather than yours). If you have the Trample feat and attempt an overrun while mounted, your target may not choose to avoid you, and if you knock your opponent prone with the overrun, your mount may make one hoof attack against your opponent.
    You can overrun while mounted. Your mount is the one initiating the movement and you simply come along with it. You spend your own standard action making the overrun attempt. Your mount spends whatever action is needed to get you both moving. Such as a charge action. Remember, you aren't charging; the mount is charging. There are benefits that the rider gets for the mount charging and they're often very similar to the benefits you'd get from charging while unmounted, but still, the mount is the one charging.

    So the typical setup is this: the mount charges. The rider spends a standard action to initiate the overrun. The mount tries to bowl over the target, provoking attacks of opportunity. If the target fails the check, they fall prone and get stepped on (hoof attack).

    Is that all?

    No. Here's the first thing that people probably don't realize is RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rules Compendium 89
    If you attempt an overrun while mounted, your mount makes the Strength check to determine the success or failure of the overrun, and it applies its size modifier rather than yours. If you knock the defender prone with the overrun, your mount can make a single attack against that creature. The attack must be made with a natural weapon that is on the mount’s front feet, and it can’t be a special attack. If the mount has no natural weapons on its feet, it can’t make this sort of attack during an overrun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Player's Handbook 102
    Trample: Benefit: When you attempt to overrun an opponent while mounted, your target may not choose to avoid you. Your mount may make one hoof attack against any target you knock down, gaining the standard +4 bonus on attack rolls against prone targets.
    You will notice that this Rules Compendium text does not refer to the Trample feat in any way. This is a general rule. The Trample feat provides you with a separate benefit above and beyond the general rule. Meaning that if your mount has hooves and also has a natural weapon on its front feet (which may or may not be hooves), on a successful overrun the mount gets two attacks, one with the front-feet weapon (because the general rule says so) and one with the hoof attack (because that's a specific benefit you get from Trample). Both of these attacks are independent of any attacks the mount may make as a result of its own actions, such as the charge action. The mount could very well make a separate attack at the end of the charge, as is typical for a charge.

    So let's come back to Mr. Neighsayer. Mhia charges, carrying Mr. Neighsayer along. Mr. Neighsayer initiates the overrun action, with Mhia rolling the Strength check. This provokes attacks of opportunity. If the foolish target attacks Mhia, first, Mr. Neighsayer takes an attack of opportunity using the defensive strike ability granted by devoted defender. (Remember that AoOs typically resolve before their trigger, which is why you can AoO someone when they leave your threatened area; they haven't left yet.) Mr. Neighsayer then uses the harm's way ability to take the attack instead of Mhia, because Mhia is a precious baby who must not be scratched. However! If Mr. Neighsayer's invisible fist ability is still charged, he can go invisible as an immediate action (harm's way doesn't take an action!), making it likely that the opponent is going to miss. But before we even resolve that attack, Mr. Neighsayer gets a second AoO against the foolish target (who just wanted to poke a horse that was barreling towards them, remember!) because of his Spectral Skirmisher feat.

    You will remember, of course, that all of these are attacks, made with a lance, from the back of a charging mount. So they do double damage! Double up that damage bonus from rampaging ancestor! Yeah!

    And hey, that was two attacks, wasn't it? Yeah, it was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rules Compendium 89
    When you attack a creature that is on foot and smaller than
    your mount, you receive a +1 bonus on melee attack rolls for being on higher ground.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dungeonscape 46
    Undermountain Tactics: Benefit: Stair king: To use this maneuver, you must gain the high ground bonus on your attacks against an opponent. If you hit your foe with two or more melee attacks during your turn, he must make a Balance check (DC 10 + your Str modifier) or fall prone. Your opponent can opt to succeed automatically on his Balance check. If he does so, he will lose his move action on his next turn, but he will succeed automatically on Balance checks to resist this maneuver until the start of his next turn.
    It's over! I have the… anyway. Undermountain Tactics kicks in here, since this is still Mr. Neighsayer's turn. The target has to choose to make a Balance check vs. falling prone or else give up their move action next round. Now, you may be thinking, why use a feat that gives an opponent a choice? They're always going to pick the one that's less bad for them, right? Sure, but this is a trap! Both of these choices are actually quite bad for an opponent. If they choose to roll… honestly there's a good chance that they're just gonna fall prone, since most people don't have Balance trained. Also, while the general rule about the front-foot attack says you have to knock the target prone with the overrun, but Trample just says, in its own separate sentence, "your mount may make one hoof attack against any target you knock down, gaining the standard +4 bonus on attack rolls against prone targets." This is still a target that you knocked down. And if they choose to simply stay upright, okay, well, did you forget that this all started because they decided to take a swing at a horse that was overrunning them? I don't blame you, because we started that something like ten pages ago, give or take. They still risk being knocked down by the overrun, which would trigger an extra attack from the general front-feet rule… and then they would be prone without having a move action available to use to stand up.

    Now, if the enemy survives this and still manages to hit Mr. Neighsayer, that's where dragon descendant comes in really handy. DR/cold iron is actually remarkably hard to break; very few enemies are going to be packing cold iron weapons. That does a great job taking the edge off. And once ancient ancestor hits the field, well, drawing attacks onto himself triggers ANOTHER attack of opportunity in retaliation! Let's face it, the coolest dragon descendant abilities are the defensive ones that really only do something if you get attacked, so how do we make sure to use them to the fullest? Easy: physically force extra attacks onto yourself. That's what this is all about.

    Late in the game, the cherry on top is Clarion Commander.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tome of Battle 34
    Clarion Commander: Benefit: Following Up: To use this option, you must make a successful DC 20 Diplomacy check as a move action after hitting your target with a melee attack. If you hit that target again on your next turn, the target provokes an attack of opportunity from an ally of your choice (assuming at least one is in position to make such an attack).
    Quote Originally Posted by Rules Compendium 89
    You can take your own move actions normally, so that, for instance, you can load and fire a light crossbow during a round while your mount is moving.
    Remember how I was saying that Mr. Neighsayer just takes a standard action on the overrun and still has a move action remaining? Clarion Commander is the way to use it to start granting your horse (or your humanoid buddy, or even yourself) additional AoOs throughout all of this.

    Trample. Trample them all. Get hilarious numbers of extra attacks when you do so. Together, we ride!


    Spoiler: Miscellany
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    Mhia's advancement
    I assume that a wild cohort can be a warhorse. If not, Handle Animal can be used to train an animal for war, and there is no reason why Mr. Neighsayer wouldn't want to do that. Horses and warhorses are the same animal, just with different training.

    Mhia gains eleven extra HD over Mr. Neighsayer's career, and the Wild Cohort feat says explicitly that the animal gains skills and feats normally for these extra HD. Since a warhorse starts with 4 HD, adding 11 HD is enough to get four extra feats (one each at a total of 6 HD, 9 HD, 12 HD, and 15 HD). Choosing the extra feats carefully will be important. Here's my suggestions:

    • Starting: Endurance, Run (these are on there by default and there isn't text indicating that you get to override that, so we'll leave them as-is)
    • First extra feat: Martial Study: Cloak of Deception (Tome of Battle 31, 76): Really, this is just a prereq for the next extra feat. None of the Shadow Hand maneuvers that Mhia qualifies for right away are game-changers (and I don't want to try to think about what happens with Shadow Jaunt while Mr. Neighsayer is onboard), but a horse turning invisible while the rider stays visible is *funny*, so we're going to go with that. (Also, at this point Mhia has 6 HD, therefore 3 IL, therefore enough to take this maneuver.)
    • Second extra feat: Martial Stance: Island of Blades (Tome of Battle 31, 78) Okay, THIS is the good stuff. While in this stance (read: always), Mhia and Mr. Neighsayer count as flanking opponents that they're both next to. Since a mount and a rider share the same space, that basically means that any time our dynamic duo are in melee, they're flanking. You know what flanking opens up? Sneak attack, through subtle ancestor. Look at me using the secret ingredient!
    • Third extra feat: Delay Potion (Complete Mage 41). Requires 1 rank in K: Arcana, and yes, a horse gets 1 skill point per HD, so there's no reason Mhia can't acquire a rank in K: Arcana over the course of two HD. Mhia doesn't have any uses for swift actions, and this provides one! All kinds of potions become much more interesting when they're a swift action instead of a standard.
    • Fourth extra feat: Mage Slayer (Complete Arcane 81): Throw those skill points into Spellcraft, nothing says you can't! I just find it amusing to have spellcasters who are threatened by a warhorse be unable to cast defensively. That's very amusing to me.



    Skill utility
    This primarily takes the form of a maxed Diplomacy skill, since I feel like Diplomacy is the social skill that does the most good on its own without backup. (Bluff is great and all until you want something honestly. Intimidate is annoying when someone doesn't back down, and it leaves enemies instead of friends. Disguise really needs Bluff to go with it. Diplomacy, though? Just ask nicely and you can often get what you want!)

    Handle Animal is chosen as a way of representing Mr. Neighsayer's bond with Mhia (and how he has raised Mhia into a warhorse, if that is in question). However, in a campaign that allows for any amount of downtime, it should be recognized that Handle Animal can theoretically be used to raise animals other than your wild cohort. This can help with tracking, relaying messages, and even combat. Because it is not necessarily wise to assume just how much downtime a given campaign will have, I have not included specifics about other animals that Mr. Neighsayer may have accompanying/assisting him at any given time. I view this as very similar to builds that include a significant investment in UMD: we won't necessarily presume that any particular items (or for HA, creatures) are available, but the skill investment allows the character to take advantage of whatever opportunities may arise. (Diplomacy may be useful for helping source animals to raise/train, as well.) Since handling an animal usually takes a move action (note that this is different from using Ride on a trained mount), the fact that Mr. Neighsayer's move actions are largely free is quite helpful.

    Handle Animal also has a (semi-)hidden use: so we're taking advantage of the high ground bonus from being mounted against an unmounted foe. Well, what if your foe is mounted? Funny thing about Handle Animal is that it doesn't require that the animal be friendly to you (or even nonhostile to you) to begin with. Half the point of it is calming wild and savage beasts you find on their own, right? So… Handle the enemy's mount and make it do things they don't really want it to do. Like, you know, retreat from combat. Lie down and take a rest. Wander over to a spot between two flankers on your team. Etc. Maybe they won't be mounted much longer. And if they start doing it back to you? Well, one, your bonuses are probably higher because who the hell keeps Handle Animal maxed, and two, that's hilarious and you've totally derailed the combat. That's absolutely a PC-favorable outcome and you'll probably get a great story out of it.

    Decisive strike
    Decisive strike is weird, and the build is mostly presented as not using it. Unlike flurry of blows, it is usable when armored, so the fact that Mr. Neighsayer wears decent armor doesn't interfere with it. You make a special full-round-action attack with a monk weapon, it does double damage, and any other attacks you make for the rest of the round also do double damage. Since this build is designed to take advantage of a large number of AoOs, "any other attacks you make for the rest of the round" can be more than average! However, the downside is that if you're spending a full-round action to make a decisive strike, you're not spending a standard action to overrun. Also, if you're using a monk weapon (presumably a quarterstaff, for two-handed Power Attack), you're not using a lance. So this is a backup strategy that's mostly useful if there's a reason why Mhia can't be charging or something. (Of course, Mhia can still walk around and do other things to provoke even without doing an overrun…) However, do note that there is no rule against using the full-round decisive strike when your mount is moving; the rule is simply that you can only make a single melee attack after your mount moves, not that you can only spend a standard action attacking.

    Preferred gear
    Mundane items: The best armor that can be afforded, lance, backup ranged weapon (composite longbow is a fine choice), backup weapons of other damage types (quarterstaff is a monk weapon). Barding for Mhia.

    Magic items: Bonuses to DEX/STR/CON in roughly that order, STR bonus gear for Mhia, horseshoes of a zephyr, healing belt, interesting upgrades to weapon/armor, AC bonuses.

    Math on ancestors
    Rampaging ancestor is almost always a better choice than subtle ancestor. Bonuses to hit usually increase DPR more than bonuses to damage, and rampaging ancestor offers both. If feeding the bonuses to hit into Power Attack for bonuses to damage, subtle ancestor is stronger at DD 3 (when it first comes online), since it does an average of +7 damage per hit (when valid) vs. rampaging's average of +3 per hit (+1 insight to damage, +2 from feeding 1 point into PA). Rampaging ancestor becomes pretty close to subtle ancestor at DD 5, dealing +6 per hit if its bonus is fed into PA (but it's a flat +6, meaning that it's less swingy than subtle's +2d6 and meaning that it gets multiplied on a crit). Of course, it becomes clearly stronger at DD 9. Still, there are two levels where subtle is clearly better (assuming, of course, that you can trigger it reliably) and several more where it's a toss-up.

    Minor AC bonuses
    While minor, it is perhaps worth mentioning that Mr. Neighsayer gets a +1 AC bonus from devoted defender, another +1 from White Raven Defense (as he is always adjacent to an ally), and eventually +5 from ancient ancestor.
    Last edited by The Viscount; 2022-08-28 at 10:47 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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    That's our entries for the round. Judges, do your stuff!
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    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXI

    Wow. Only 4, but very different entries. Many thank to the participants!

    And... the Table!

    Name Alignment / Race Class Levels Chef Total Place
    Noah Itall L(?)N Strongheart Halfling Invisible Eye Style Halfling Monk 1/Archivist 4/Paragnostic Apostle 1/Singer of Concordance 3/Dragon Descendant 10/Swordsage 1
    Samantha d'Jorasco L? Halfling Dragonfire Adept 2/Soulwarp Strike Halfling Monk 3/Dragon Descendant 10/Nosomatic Chirurgeon 5
    Naughty Loafer CN Changeling Changeling Egoist 17/Dragon Descendant 3
    Mr. Neighsayer LN Human Overwhelming Attack Style Invisible Fist Decisive Strike Monk 3/Fighter 2/Dragon Descendant 10/Devoted Defender 2/Crusader 3
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXI

    With such a small round, I hope to be able to finish well within the deadline. I'll get to reading your entries soon!
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXI

    Wow, folks must really have been demoralized by this one. I think this is the smallest round I've seen in a looong time.

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    The build I was considering was Archivist 4/Artificer 1/Dragon Descendant 10/Artificer +5. Just be an Archivist 4 who can craft any divine scroll via Artificer 1, and thus scribe it into their prayer book, and use all that divine flexibility to pretend to be a monk. The build capstone is Artificer 6, which grants me the ability to craft partially-charged wands.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    Wow, folks must really have been demoralized by this one. I think this is the smallest round I've seen in a looong time.
    The most recent ones I recall were psion uncarnate and atavist, which made me think that the chefs weren't really into psionics. But then again one of our entrants here is psionic, so (shrug).
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    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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    The school year starting up just zapped my energy to complete the two full builds I had planned

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXI

    Congrats to the entrants, with what is a truly lackluster ingredient.

    I was wondering if anyone was going to use Archivist to meet the Still Mind req.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    Congrats to the entrants, with what is a truly lackluster ingredient.

    I was wondering if anyone was going to use Archivist to meet the Still Mind req.
    I'm glad someone did so I don't look like a liar when I said there was more than one way in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXI

    Best I had was "find a reason to hit people twice, find a reason not to get hit, and get high AC+miss chance and robilar's". I was planning on a decisive strike AOO based monk.

    But best I could find for "reason to hit twice" was weapon aptitude on three mountains (shaky) and I couldn't figure out really why I wasn't just pouncing or doing karmic strike. It didn't feel like enough.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    Wow, folks must really have been demoralized by this one. I think this is the smallest round I've seen in a looong time.
    As for me, I found very irritating Still mind requirement.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXI

    I had some vague idea of using the head shot feat to "force" being attacked as per confusion rules, but it was juest too jangly to work, and not effective enough besides

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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    The build I was considering was Archivist 4/Artificer 1/Dragon Descendant 10/Artificer +5. Just be an Archivist 4 who can craft any divine scroll via Artificer 1, and thus scribe it into their prayer book, and use all that divine flexibility to pretend to be a monk. The build capstone is Artificer 6, which grants me the ability to craft partially-charged wands.
    Pretty sure Artificer scrolls are specifically non divine and non arcane

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paragon View Post
    Pretty sure Artificer scrolls are specifically non divine and non arcane
    At any time, an archivist can also add spells found on scrolls containing divine spells to his prayerbook
    The scrolls don't need to be divine, the spells do? I'm pretty sure if it's a scroll of a spell pulled off a divine list, archivist can scribe from it?


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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    The scrolls don't need to be divine, the spells do? I'm pretty sure if it's a scroll of a spell pulled off a divine list, archivist can scribe from it?
    Huh.
    So nothing prevents Wiz/Archivist to have access to any spell in the game just by having a dip in Artificer ? I'm sure this must have raised some eyebrows (even though I can't find the flaw in your reasoning myself)
    Last edited by Paragon; 2022-08-29 at 02:41 AM.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXI

    Quote Originally Posted by Paragon View Post
    Huh.
    So nothing prevents Wiz/Archivist to have access to any spell in the game just by having a dip in Artificer ? I'm sure this must have raised some eyebrows (even though I can't find the flaw in your reasoning myself)
    In fairness, Wizard can only Scribe wizard spells. Archivist is just weird. They can only pull their free per level spells from cleric list, but if they find a druid scroll, it's scribe-able. Idk why it was made that way but there you go.

    But I'm pretty sure it's legit? Like, an artificer 1/Wizard X can Scribe Scrolls of Wizard spells they don't personally know (since that's what artificer does), and can then Scribe tye Wizard spell off that scroll into their spellbook (since that's what Wizard does). I'm not aware of a reason it doesn't work, although I wouldn't be surprised if one exists, cuz its a neat combo for classes that don't really need the power boost.

    EDIT: Like, here's the full quotes for the two classes, where Archivist is (for the most part) just "divine wizard".

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizard
    Spellbooks: A wizard must study her spellbook each day to prepare her spells (see Preparing Wizard Spells, page 177). She cannot prepare any spell not recorded in her spellbook, except for read magic, which all wizards can prepare from memory.

    A wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard spells (except those from her prohibited school or schools, if any; see School Specialization, page 57) plus three 1st-level spells of your choice. For each point of Intelligence bonus the wizard has (see Table 1—1: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells, page 8), the spellbook holds one additional 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new wizard level, she gains two new spells of any spell level or levels that she can cast (based on her new wizard level) for her spellbook. For example, when a wizard attains 5th level, she can cast 3rd-level spells. At this point, she can add two new 3rd-level spells to her spellbook, or one 2nd-level spell and one 3rd-level spell, or any combination of two spells between 1st and 3rd level. At any time, a wizard can also add spells found in other wizards' spellbooks to her own (see Adding Spells to a Wizard's Spellbook, page 178).
    Quote Originally Posted by Archivist
    Prayerbook: Unlike a cleric, an archivist does not receive his daily spell complement from whatever deity or cosmic force he worships. Rather, he must seek out and collect new spells much as a wizard does, but from such esoteric sources as holy tablets, ancient steles, or other magical scriptures. He cannot prepare any spell not recorded in his prayerbook except for read magic, which archivists can prepare from memory.

    An archivist begins play with a prayerbook containing all 0-level cleric spells plus three 1st-level cleric spells of the player's choice. For each point of Intelligence bonus the archivist has, the prayerbook has an additional 1st-level cleric spell. At each new class level, the archivist gains two new cleric spells for his prayerbook; these can be of any spell level or levels that he can cast (based on hisnew archivist level). At any time, an archivist can also add spells found on scrolls containing divine spells to his prayerbook, but he must make any rolls and spend the time required (see Adding Spells to a Wizard's Spellbook on page 178 of the Player's Handbook). The archivist can learn and thus prepare nonclerical divine spells in this fashion but the two free spells he gains for advancing in class level must be selected from the cleric spell list.
    Idk why Archivist can only directly learn cleric spells, but can scribe from other lists? Seems like a weird design choice, but it's legit.
    Last edited by AvatarVecna; 2022-08-29 at 09:00 AM.


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